Corruption in the BCS? Pay for play? Coaching Coverups?

[furls]

Say it ain't so.... You mean the guys the single-handedly have the power to stop any hope of a football tournament are abusing their power?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6270459

and if you have not heard about it, I strongly recommend watching tonight's Real Sports on HBO with Bryant Gumble where apparently a couple of former Auburn players are going to talk about pay for play at Auburn. This stuff is not shocking at all, but now that people outside of the NCAA, SEC (insert confernce here) and the teams themselves are looking and asking questions a lot of NCAA Football's dirty little secrets are starting to coming out. This is not going to get better and while it is happening across the country, no one cares that BGSU players are getting 100 handshakes and handjobs under the bleachers, it is the big names (OSU, Auburn, USC, LSU, Florida, etc.) that will get the attention.

This will go one of two ways, it will get swept under the rug (ala Cam Newton) or it will blow up into a lot of overreactions. I think that will all rely on how many more stories come out before they can adjudicate the previously identified issues. I am starting to think that some of this heat is going to end up getting reflected in whatever happens to OSU from the NCAA. In some ways you would think that some of the heat would get deflected, but in the end, I think it will focus magnifying glass right on the upcoming sanctions in Columbus!

[waborat]

Watch a whole lotta nada come from all of this...

Nothin but a future of attorneys, media hype and finally, nothing more than chatter...

Woods and his cronies will grease someone's skids and be appointed to positions somewhere other than the desert...

But, wouldn't ya like to know the names of the politicos who received the contributions that were later reimbursed?

[jb]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/03/30/fiesta-bowl-junker/

Wow. The BCS is such a dumb & inefficient concept it hurts. Hopefully this provides the impetus to kill this truely basterdized "championship".

[e0y2e3]

I'll take the BCS over two straight years of a shitty horizon league team pretending they matter every single day.

[jb]

I'll take the BCS over two straight years of a shitty horizon league team pretending they matter every single day.

$ 771 mil vs $ 125 mil. Thought u were a development numbers guy? ;-)

[e0y2e3]

Yeah - driven by the same fucks that turned this years Packers - Bears shit fest into one of the top TV events of the year.

The NCAA tourney is a shit product. If I wanted to get my nuts off on worse than coin flip odds I would drive down to CT and hit up the Casino.

[jb]

Yeah - driven by the same fucks that turned this years Packers - Bears shit fest into one of the top TV events of the year.

The NCAA tourney is a shit product. If I wanted to get my nuts off on worse than coin flip odds I would drive down to CT and hit up the Casino.

Mohigan Sun, baby!

[Triple-S]

+1 model or 8 teams?

[FUDU]

If the NCAA tourney is a bad product (and I agree w/Bilas on this) then it's on the NCAA and the NBA, but a bad product doesn't mean it isn't exciting.

The college game and the NBA game suffer b/c of the same thing to a big degree.

[e0y2e3]

Bullshit - a single elimination long form tourney is going to suck no matter what, especially when you keep letting shittier teams in and keep other good teams out for no real reason.

It just sucks super bad lately.

It's a flawed bullshit system designed to entertain people in the same manor riding some pussy ass roller coaster does.

[e0y2e3]

PS: http://www.avclub.com/articles/money-an ... ess,53716/

Everyone should watch this and Real Sports tonight. DVR set fer me.

Frontline link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... e=bigimage

[FUDU]

No, it was fine years back when teams & players grew and matured, much more refined ball was being played as a result. Probably ties into few wacky upsets back in the day as well. How many teams end up in the F4 with 2 or 3 starting seniors anymore (or 4 upper class men), let alone really talented seniors, let alone go back to back with 60-80% of their starting 5 in tact.

If you haven't read Bilas' comments on this (I'm sure you have) then you should, he nails it.

It isn't inherently awesome like most of America plays it off to be, but it doesn't suck, yet. But your single elimination flaw reference is kind of funny coming from you when you do not at the same time acknowledge the flaw that is the NBA system, everyone gets in and it is set up to extend long enough to ensure the better teams win 85-905 of all series....boring, did I mention set up. 5 games series all the way through & 7 in the Finals would be tits.

[e0y2e3]

Sports are about defining the best FUDU, I could give two shits about what shitty team gets to play Butler because they got hot at the right time.

[FUDU]

I disagree, sports are not about defining the best. The best rising to the top and closing the deal just amplifies how great sports can be in general. Anything can happen on any given day is what defines sports. Winning holds no prejudice. I agree that domination by good teams can be great for sports, but when it doesn't go down like that it doesn't equate to sports sucking, IMO.

A big problem with college sports, football or hoops is the dissimilar scheduling and human subjective rankings.

[furls]

Yeah - driven by the same fucks that turned this years Packers - Bears shit fest into one of the top TV events of the year.

The NCAA tourney is a shit product. If I wanted to get my nuts off on worse than coin flip odds I would drive down to CT and hit up the Casino.

Dude, I live 10mins from Mohegan. Let me know if you are coming to town.

[Triple-S]

Front line was really good, in case anyone caught that particular ep. last night.

NCAA prez. looked uncomfortable when being asked of his salary.

[e0y2e3]

Sure FUDU and that is why the occasional upset in the NBA and MLB means so much. Those teams rose up.

Single game elimination isn't rising up, it opens the door to massive luck and bullshit.

And same for you getting up to Boston for a Sawx game or something.

[pup]

So the TEAMS without a bunch of over hyped recruits cannot be as good as the ones with them? That what I am hearing? Cuz that is pretty god damn stupid if you ask me.

[Triple-S]

So would the NCAA be best served with say, a best of three series featuring 8 to 16 teams?

[e0y2e3]

Are you really going to tell me that the best college basketball team is going to win the title this year?

Butler and VCU are meh basketball teams that got hot at the right time and had a combination of seeding, luck, and bullshit lead them to destiny.

It's a joke.

If you really think that one of the three best teams in the nation this year are going to be involved in the title game you need to check yourself. The NCAA tourney is not about defining the best, it is about getting a bunch of dumbasses excited.

And Kentucky hates your recruits statement.

[e0y2e3]

So would the NCAA be best served with say, a best of three series featuring 8 to 16 teams?

To find the best, yes.

To entertain the retarded masses, no.

[pup]

Are you really going to tell me that the best college basketball team is going to win the title this year?

Butler and VCU are meh basketball teams that got hot at the right time and had a combination of seeding, luck, and bullshit lead them to destiny.

It's a joke.

If you really think that one of the three best teams in the nation this year are going to be involved in the title game you need to check yourself. The NCAA tourney is not about defining the best, it is about getting a bunch of dumbasses excited.

And Kentucky hates your recruits statement.

Does the best team always win the Super Bowl? NBA title? World Series? Anything in life?

Who is the best team this year?

[e0y2e3]

Would have loved to have watched the top eight fight it out and figure that out.

Instead we got what, maybe one matchup between the eight best teams?

And my issues with the NFL playoffs are well logged.

If the best team chokes in a best of seven, well, that is a pretty sure sign of not being the best. One game is a big big difference.

[hermanfontenot]

Are you really going to tell me that the best college basketball team is going to win the title this year?

Who cares? What, you feel sorry for a team that can't win six games in a single-elimination tournament? Fuck them, they can cry in the corner. If they were that good they would have stepped up.

Where was this ire when the Celtics went to the Finals of your precious NBA after cocking around for fifty games? Were they the best team? Did you give a shit?

How many top seeds has Butler knocked out in the last two seasons? It's at least two. How many times does it have to happen for it not to be a fluke?

[pup]

Would have loved to have watched the top eight fight it out and figure that out.

Instead we got what, maybe one matchup between the eight best teams?

And my issues with the NFL playoffs are well logged.

If the best team chokes in a best of seven, well, that is a pretty sure sign of not being the best. One game is a big big difference.

Christ dude. All I can say at this point.

It happens the same way in every aspect of every walk of life. The best guy doesn't always get the girl.

You can be the biggest pimp for 364 days of the year, if the day you need to be the best is number 365 you are shit outta luck. The best TEAMS play their best in the biggest situations. Simple as that.

Let me guess, you think Kansas beats VCU 9 of 10?

[e0y2e3]

The Celtics put themselves in a position of weakness and battled back from it.

Butler is a not very talented team that has gotten absurdly lucky.

I don't feel sorry for them, just can't understand why people consider this America's greatest sporting event.

A group orgy of roulette would have more reality behind it.

[pup]

The Celtics put themselves in a position of weakness and battled back from it.

Butler is a not very talented team that has gotten absurdly lucky.

I don't feel sorry for them, just can't understand why people consider this America's greatest sporting event.

A group orgy of roulette would have more reality behind it.

Lucky? Get the fuck out of here.

[e0y2e3]

Actually Pup, Kansas beats VCU 9.9 out of 10.

[hermanfontenot]

The Celtics put themselves in a position of weakness and battled back from it.

They basically tanked half a season. Lost at home to New Jersey at one point IIRC. Yet they still had the opportunity to battle back.

Butler is a not very talented team that has gotten absurdly lucky.

I'd be interested in your explanation of how and why Butler, 9-1 in the past two Tournaments, back-to-back Final Fours as a #5 and #8 seed- top of the bracket where they HAVE to beat the top seed to get there- is lucky.

No, athletically they are not awesome. But WTF, I'm not scouting these guys. I just see them continue to win games against supposedly quality opposition- two #1 seeds, two #2 seeds in the last two seasons.

I mean, this is not some #14 seed pulling a first-round game out the crack of its ass here.

[e0y2e3]

Would have loved to have watched the top eight fight it out and figure that out.

Instead we got what, maybe one matchup between the eight best teams?

And my issues with the NFL playoffs are well logged.

If the best team chokes in a best of seven, well, that is a pretty sure sign of not being the best. One game is a big big difference.

Christ dude. All I can say at this point.

It happens the same way in every aspect of every walk of life. The best guy doesn't always get the girl.

You can be the biggest pimp for 364 days of the year, if the day you need to be the best is number 365 you are shit outta luck. The best TEAMS play their best in the biggest situations. Simple as that.

And let's clarify, the real shitty part about the NCAA tourney is that the left over day, the day you aren't the best, has a chance of happening six times agianst six different opponents.

[peeker643]

The joke in the NCAA isn't who wins. Whoever wins earns it.

The joke is in the initial seeding and the small conference teams being a part. There is very, very little difference in terms of talent at most big schools anymore and there is a ton of advantage in teams like Butler, et al having kids play there for four years and grow up together. In many ways it's experience and coaching vs. athleticism/one year McDonald All Americans.

You see an 11th seed like last year's Butler team or an 8th/9th like this year's Butler team and they're on an even plane with an inexperienced but more talented 1-4 seed.

It's fundamentals vs. fun ta watch, experience vs athleticism. There's a fine line between 8/9 and 1. To the point the only 'stupidity' involved is thinking there's a wide gulf.

Yeah, no need seeing Vermont or Hampton or LIU in it, but fuck it, if you're not one of the 32 top big teams then who gives a shit? Win more games and get in. No room to bitch if you're outside looking in. That's how they cull the heard and how they sell it and people are fine with it.

I love the tournament. It's a great goddamn time socially and you watch exciting basketball for three weeks outta the year.

WTF is wrong with that and why wouldn't it be considered a tremendous event?

[pup]

Would have loved to have watched the top eight fight it out and figure that out.

Instead we got what, maybe one matchup between the eight best teams?

And my issues with the NFL playoffs are well logged.

If the best team chokes in a best of seven, well, that is a pretty sure sign of not being the best. One game is a big big difference.

Christ dude. All I can say at this point.

It happens the same way in every aspect of every walk of life. The best guy doesn't always get the girl.

You can be the biggest pimp for 364 days of the year, if the day you need to be the best is number 365 you are shit outta luck. The best TEAMS play their best in the biggest situations. Simple as that.

And let's clarify, the real shitty part about the NCAA tourney is that the left over day, the day you aren't the best, has a chance of happening six times agianst six different opponents.

Nope. Game 1 has nothing to do with game 6. If Kansas is so much better than VCU, they should be able to win that game without playing their best.

It sucks to get upset in a game. If you lose as a 3 seed to a 14 and that 14 gets pummeled in the second round, you can make your case about that.

But to honestly sit there and try to tell me Butler has gotten lucky 9 times (and played second for second with the NC in that one loss) might be the most myopic view even you have come up with.

To think VCU beats Kansas by double digits because they got lucky is absurd. It was pretty simple. The fact that the great Kansas team does not have anybody with the ability to handle being pressed full court is not VCU's fault. Nor should they have to apologize for it.

[e0y2e3]

I have fun watching the tourney, won't front on that. But end of the night I always still shake my head and walk home asking myself "really"

IMO, even if you just cut the teams back down to what it was in the era FUDU pretends had 64 teams and cut out the shit it would be acceptable.

In it's current form it's a disaster. When you combine the NBA talent suck with the 85 other issues you get VCU - Butler.

And as much fun as I had watching the tourney is now dead.

I'd rather have half as much fun through the first two rounds and really get into the final four.

[hermanfontenot]

The quality of play in CBB has gone down. I don't think that can be disputed. We're not going to get any more UNC-Georgetown or Duke-UNLV-type matchups here and down the road.

[e0y2e3]

The quality of play in CBB has gone down. I don't think that can be disputed. We're not going to get any more UNC-Georgetown or Duke-UNLV-type matchups here and down the road.

And that's the other big problem and one I will point toward the NBA....

The best teams annually are 1 and dones.

And we get... drumb rollllllllll.......

VCU@!#$%@@@

[pup]

You are confusing talented players with good teams.

I have no problem watching a good team beat the bloody snot out of more talented groups.

Would I rather watch the more talented players play the game and execute the way the Butlers and VCUs of the world are? Yes. But since they don't seem to be willing/able to do so, fuck them. Stand there in disbelief while a bunch of guys that supposedly can't carry your jock jump around.

Blame it on the NBA. Blame it on ESPN. Blame it on da hood. Just don't blame it on Butler.

[HoodooMan]

e0 = hater of fun.

Period.

Sure, the NBA's system (& sport) is set up to determine the best team better than anyone else's, but the tradeoff is that it takes a fucking eternity and it can be extremely dull.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Denver over Seattle is the only 1/8 NBA upset ever, right? IF ONLY THE NCAA SPENT A WEEK AND A HALF DECIDING ITS 1/16 & 2/15 MATCHUPS, EVERYTHING WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!1!1!!!!

And calling the NCAA Tournament "long form" is a little goofy. It's probably an easier run than the NFL playoffs (which, yeah, I know you also hate). #1 & #2 seeds effectively get first round byes. #1 seeds damn near get two round byes.

In 26 years of the 64-team format, the number of champions by seed:

1: 16
2: 4
3: 3
4: 1
6: 1
8: 1

^Not exactly random. And the 6 and the 8 came in '85 & '88.

One goofy year with probably the weakest group of #1 seeds I've ever seen* doesn't render the system broken.

*-Seriously, Kansas lost two of its best players to the NBA, another 1st rounder on top of that, and effectively only added a backup PF--and that only knocked them down to the #2 overall seed?!?!?! And BS on them beating VCU 9.9/10. Bill Self's Kansas teams have consistently responded horribly in the tournament to defenses that really pressure them on the perimeter.

[e0y2e3]

To Hoodoo:

How many of those years included the lack of talent we currently have and all 299 teams getting in?

What we are seeing is a developing trend that has been picking up steam since the mid aughts.

And I don't care if it takes time, I'll watch a two month playoff to define the best in any sport at any time.

Edit: and the long form was in terms of long term win or die intensity thrown at teams from 65 different angles. It opens the door for a trillion different slip-ups.

[peeker643]

This HBO special is immediately flawed when RichRod is on the panel as an advocate of education.

[HoodooMan]

How many of those years included the lack of talent we currently have and all 299 teams getting in?

What we are seeing is a developing trend that has been picking up steam since the mid aughts.

^a trend that, if the NBA is smart, might essentially reverse itself if even a 2nd year is required in the new CBA.

^a trend that, failing a freshman class as shitty as this year's, still doesn't stop the best teams from stockpiling a good deal of talent and the NCAA with quality basketball.

This wasn't a good season of college basketball. Not in the regular season, not in the tournament. But most of the talk I'm hearing is a whole lot of overreaction and not much else. College basketball is still played at a high enough level that Chris Paul (<--pretty sure!), Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and John Wall never made their way out of the Elite 8.

Oh, but I forgot that's because NCAAB's a crapshoot. : rolleyes :

[furls]

OK, now we have Willie Lyles asking for 80K to deliver Patrick Peterson to A&M.... I am sure that nothing will be able to be proven here, particularly because you would have to trace the money from LSU/A&M to Lyles to the Peterson's. The payment from LSU/A&M would be easy to find, tracing the cash from Lyles to the Peteresons would be impossible 4 years later.

This street agents thing is going to blow up into something really nasty. You have to ask yourself, what is a school like Oregon paying Lyles $25K for? It doesn't cost 25K to cut videos. Normal prices for these legitmate scouting services for use of the databases is generally less than $5K. This has the potential (should the NCAA choose to pursue it) of becoming the steroids scandal for NCAA football (and even more so in NCAA hoops where the AAU teams are known hotbeds for street agents and payouts).

This really is an ugly business.

[peeker643]

No doubt it's ugly. It always has been.

Couple things on the HBO Real Sports special:

Thought it was very superficial. I mean, I learned nothing really that I didn't already know. Untraceable cash, broads, etc. Been going down since Christ was a corporal.

Rich Rod looked almost guilty of something sitting there. Head down when he talked, not really adding much other than he'd like to see some clarification in the way the NCAA interprets rules and some consistency in how they deal with the infractions.

Lastly, the only thing I ever got in book bags was books. Never once a sum of money. That's disappointing.

End of the day, I don't know what, if anything, can be done. Pay a stipend? No way. Schools would just add on book bags of money and offer a few more bucks than the other school on top of the stipend.

Clusterfuck.

OK, now we have Willie Lyles asking for 80K to deliver Patrick Peterson to A&M.... I am sure that nothing will be able to be proven here, particularly because you would have to trace the money from LSU/A&M to Lyles to the Peterson's. The payment from LSU/A&M would be easy to find, tracing the cash from Lyles to the Peteresons would be impossible 4 years later.

This street agents thing is going to blow up into something really nasty. You have to ask yourself, what is a school like Oregon paying Lyles $25K for? It doesn't cost 25K to cut videos. Normal prices for these legitmate scouting services for use of the databases is generally less than $5K. This has the potential (should the NCAA choose to pursue it) of becoming the steroids scandal for NCAA football (and even more so in NCAA hoops where the AAU teams are known hotbeds for street agents and payouts).

This really is an ugly business.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Ohhh now the NCAA tourney sucks...... and roller coasters..... Put a loaded gun in your mouth and see how many times you can pull the trigger.

Rich Rod looked almost guilty of something sitting there

Because he was guilty of the whole workout thing. But never mind that, what I want to know is what your black karate friend from CLB thinks of all this.

[peeker643]

Ohhh now the NCAA tourney sucks...... and roller coasters..... Put a loaded gun in your mouth and see how many times you can pull the trigger.

Rich Rod looked almost guilty of something sitting there

Because he was guilty of the whole workout thing. But never mind that, what I want to know is what your black karate friend from CLB thinks of all this.

He's guilty of way more than that.

I have no friends who do karate CDT. Not black, not white, not Asian. Reading comprehension is your pal.

But don't worry. Everything's fine down there. Cleaner than an operating room. Accountability is huge in CBus. You remember when Tress was laying it down how those five guys had to promise to come back next year because they needed to be accountable?

Yeah...that's extremely funny now ain't it.

Nothing to see there. Everything is fine.

Hey...where can I get a copy of the Senator's book about living right?



You know nothing about sanctions....

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Ju Jitsu then...... semantics.

And you're right, down here ALL IS WELL!!!

Of course you wouldn't know this because you don't have our incredible radio people like The Common Man And The Torg (he's a fucking Scandanavian too, which is strike one in my book).

[peeker643]

Ju Jitsu then...... semantics.

And you're right, down here ALL IS WELL!!!

Of course you wouldn't know this because you don't have our incredible radio people like The Common Man And The Torg (he's a fucking Scandanavian too, which is strike one in my book).

No black jiu jitsu friends either.

Strike two.

And, tpeezy2:OSU::LBJ:Cavaliers Same guy, same entitlement issues, same nice numbers and no title, but w/less talent. IMO of course. Just wondering if he was a Hawkeye or Hurricane if you'd feel same way about wassup. Hmmm? Hmmm?

I don't know many scandinavians other than my mother-in-law so I am prone to agree with you on those people.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Ju Jitsu then...... semantics.

And you're right, down here ALL IS WELL!!!

Of course you wouldn't know this because you don't have our incredible radio people like The Common Man And The Torg (he's a fucking Scandanavian too, which is strike one in my book).

No black jiu jitsu friends either.

Strike two.

And, tpeezy2:OSU::LBJ:Cavaliers Same guy, same entitlement issues, same nice numbers and no title, but w/less talent. IMO of course. Just wondering if he was a Hawkeye or Hurricane if you'd feel same way about wassup. Hmmm? Hmmm?

I don't know many scandinavians other than my mother-in-law so I am prone to agree with you on those people.

If he was a Hurricane i'd hate him because of that alone. Fuck Miami. What those players did just does not bother me. If a Hurricane sold their own Golden Handcuffs, I got no problem with that. But they would still be stupid assholes because they play for Miami.

And I know there was some combination of black friends and Jiu Jitsu. I know it.

[peeker643]

If he was a Hurricane i'd hate him because of that alone. Fuck Miami. What those players did just does not bother me. If a Hurricane sold their own Golden Handcuffs, I got no problem with that. But they would still be stupid assholes because they play for Miami.

And I know there was some combination of black friends and Jiu Jitsu. I know it.

No one gives a shit about that other than that tpeezy2 and the others knew it was against NCAA rules (I won't even say 'wrong').

I'm speaking more to St. Tress who was talking about accountability while emailing tpeezy's pimp and signing false affidavits while sending his holier than thou book off to the publisher.

THAT's funny stuff. I mean, if you're gonna be holier than thou shouldnt you actually BE holier than thou? At least through the date of the first book signing?

Now be quiet. I'm trying to enjoy the opener.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If he was a Hurricane i'd hate him because of that alone. Fuck Miami. What those players did just does not bother me. If a Hurricane sold their own Golden Handcuffs, I got no problem with that. But they would still be stupid assholes because they play for Miami.

And I know there was some combination of black friends and Jiu Jitsu. I know it.

No one gives a shit about that other than that tpeezy2 and the others knew it was against NCAA rules (I won't even say 'wrong').

I'm speaking more to St. Tress who was talking about accountability while emailing tpeezy's pimp and signing false affidavits while sending his holier than thou book off to the publisher.

THAT's funny stuff. I mean, if you're gonna be holier than thou shouldnt you actually BE holier than thou? At least through the date of the first book signing?

Now be quiet. I'm trying to enjoy the opener.

Have you read his book? Holier than thou... Who makes this shit up?

Chapter 7 is called "Tell that bitch for $75 she better swallow."

[peeker643]

Have you read his book? Holier than thou... Who makes this shit up?

Chapter 7 is called "Tell that bitch for $75 she better swallow."

I make this shit up. But only if it's too much work to research shit.

Is that the name of the book? Maybe I was wrong about that cagey playa.