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Keepers on current Cavs roster?

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Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby bucknutz94 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:02 pm

I'll admit that yesterday's loss to N.O. was the 1st Cavs' game I've watched entirely this year. That said, I liked what I saw out of a couple guys. So I started running the current roster through my head to see who should stay and who will probably go before this team gets good again.

I'll post my thoughts on the roster but I'd welcome opinions from those who follow the team and the NBA more than I do:

Viable contributors:
JJ Hickson- terrific athlete. can and should be a starter going forward.
Boobie Gibson- can shoot, and that's about it. but outside shooting is a valuable skill.
Ramon Sessions- decent back-up PG.
Anderson Varejao- solid big on a team with few. should be a back-up PF or C on a good team.
Samardo Samuals- I've seen enough of this kid to like him. Tough banger with high basketball IQ.

Just passing through:
Baron Davis
Antawn Jamison
Ryan Hollins
Joey Graham

Not sure where/if they fit:
Anthony Parker- decent player. no more than an end of the bench guy on a good team.
Semih Erdin- big guy with decent athleticism. jury still out.
Luke Harangody- seems like a tough guy with a decent shot. they have a way of lasting.
Cristian Eyenga- very athletic and has shot pretty well of late. seems like a keeper.
Alonzo Gee- I know nothing about Gee. seems athletic but undersized.
Manny Harris- I know nothing about Harris either.

So, by my count the Cavs have 5 guys that should be a part of the future, 4 guys that are just passing through, and 6 guys that will either step up or move on. Of those 6 I like Eyenga, Erdin, and Harangody the best.

Thoughts?
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby papacass » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:14 pm

There are no keepers on this roster. Odds are very good it will be entirely turned over within 2-3 years.

The building blocks the Cavs need aren't here yet. Once you get the core, you worry about augmenting it with role players.

A couple out of the group of Hickson, Sessions, Eyenga, Erden, Samuels and Harangody might carve out a niche here and stay for the long haul. But that's about it.

Other than that, expect the next few seasons to be seriously transformational.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:52 pm

Someone pass Cass the Xanax.

SSB's the only one I'm 100% certain about keeping. Big athletic guys who can defend are worth their weight in gold. I think Eyenga has the potential to be something special, it really depends if he can put it all together on the pro level. The signs are encouraging, at least. Ermin and Samuels are also intriguing and if Davis really is playing the good soldier, he could be a solid part too.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:08 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Someone pass Cass the Xanax.

SSB's the only one I'm 100% certain about keeping. Big athletic guys who can defend are worth their weight in gold. I think Eyenga has the potential to be something special, it really depends if he can put it all together on the pro level. The signs are encouraging, at least. Ermin and Samuels are also intriguing and if Davis really is playing the good soldier, he could be a solid part too.


I'm with Cass.

No one.

Not one guy I have to have and have to keep.

Eyenga? He's the Nigerian JJ Hickson. :hide: Davis and AV are the only two guys who even make a rotation on a conteding team.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby jb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:12 pm

I think it is hard to tell who could be a decent role player without any decent quality starters. I can see about 3 or 5 of the current starters developing into decent off-the-bench players. Nothing wrong with developing that right now.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby papacass » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:25 pm

It's not that the Cavs don't have some talent. They just don't know what the team is going to look like in the future. The Cavs might have a few players, but most of them might not fit moving forward. They have mismatched pieces, and if you have that, you really have nothing.

My big problem with Andy is he's more of a pesky defender than an enforcer-type defender. He'll bump and grind with anyone in the post, but he's just not big or strong enough to match up with any center you might meet in the later rounds of the playoffs.

If the Cavs are rebuilding for a shot at a title, Andy is not a starting C on a title-caliber ballclub. A third big, yes, but not a starter. And it's not worth keeping a 28 year old bench big around for a rebuilding project that won't come to any type of fruition for at least three years in a best-case scenario. He's worth more as a trade chip.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby waborat » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:43 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Not one guy I have to have and have to keep.



F#ck, more wasted jerseys in my closet
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby StewieG » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:28 pm

For most of these guys I think it's too early to tell.

I think Baron either plays out his contract or accepts a buyout/is traded heading into the last year of his deal. Either way he's certainly not a part of the long-term future.

Varejao is a nice player, and I really like him coming off the bench. But we're not going to be contenders anytime within the next 3 years, so I really think his value to us is as a trade chip sometime in the next year or two.

Gee is OK...could become a decent role player in the next couple years, but that's about it. Some people seem to really like him, but I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think he's anything more than a 9th or 10th man.

Sessions seems like he needs to have the ball and play lots of minutes to be effective. When Mo was playing, Sessions was much less effective. When Mo was injured, Ramon was actually making a nice contribution. And now that Baron's here, he's gone back to being iffy. Since he can't shoot, he's not a PG that's going to take you deep in the playoffs. Good teams will expose the shit out of that. So I think you feature him the rest of this year, have Davis play off-the-ball (or hire Tanya Hardin's boyfriend to club his knee with a tire iron), and hope some team comes calling with a nice draft pick for Ramon in the offseason.

Harris I actually like. Maybe not as a long-term starter, but someone who can develop into a nice guy off the bench. I'd like to see him bulk up more, but when he's been given minutes, he's generally performed well.

Boobie, Hollins, Graham - Don't let the door hit ya. Gibson at least has one discernible skill. He can shoot. Hollins' only skill is fucking up, and Graham is worthless. Regardless, the sooner these guys are off the roster, the better.

Erdin, Harangody - Simply too early to tell with either of them. Harangody I don't have much hope for other than a 12th man. Erdin I haven't ever seen play, so I can't even begin to make a prediction.

Jamison I like as a guy, but he's of no use to this team. He's played his last game as a Cav, and will be shipped out this summer.

I like what I've seen so far out of Samuels. Still has some work, but could be a nice big to have off the bench.

Eyenga...I just don't we can say one way or another what he'll be. He's an athletic freak, to be sure. He's still learning to play the game, which is good (it means he can grow a lot), and he's still young (again, good). I think it all comes down to how much he'll be able to develop a reliable jumpshot, and how high his basketball IQ can go. If he can get those two things to come together, I think he'll be a keeper. If not, then he joins Joel Freeland, Nikita Wilson, Lou Roe, Steve Logan, and many other 30th picks who have gone on to do nothing of note in the NBA.

Saved the best for last - JJ Hickson. First, the good. He's very athletic, he can score around the hoop when he wants to, and he's turned himself into a nice rebounder (again, when he wants to). He's grown leaps and bounds this year. If nothing else, I think he's earned himself a place on this team next year (I'll pause while Peeker replaces his monitor). Now, the bad. He's wildly inconsistent. He doesn't always play hard. He's really bad defensively. His hands might as well be bricks. He is Drew Gooden Jr. Ultimately Hickson is what he is. He's inconsistent, frustrating, and very talented. He'll probably never be a model of consistency. But on nights he's on, he can help you win. Probably a 3-and-a-half quarters guy, because I don't trust him late in games you have to win. A keeper for the next couple years, if only because you want to make sure the light doesn't go on for him.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby pup » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:22 pm

Really? Andy is not a starter on a good team? Get outta here. Wish I would have thought of that.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby jerryroche » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:51 pm

There is no immediacy to make any roster determinations, as this rebuilding thing is a three-year deal. Most marginal players will be sorted out as new talent is added.

Hollins, Graham and Gee are easy. They are done. Period. A.P. and JaMo are too old to figure in the long-term plans; trade them ASAP, for as much as you can get. Baron will be 35 in three years; in another year, he’ll be an expiring contract guy who might bring something on the open market.

If the Cavs can find a true center in the next three years, that makes Andy expendable, too. Trade-wise, he might be the most valuable Cavalier next season.

Sessions, Samuels, Eyenga and Harris are all young with potential. It would be wise to hang onto them for another year or two to see if they improve with age. If not, they’re gone.

Boobie and J.J. Mouthguard, meh. Boobie can be the 15th guy on the roster of a playoff contender. The more I see J.J., the more I think he's a tease. If he can become more consistent in the next year or so, he will have a spot three years hence, but I don't hold out much hope.

Erdin and Harangody? Who knows?
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby jta1975 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:05 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Someone pass Cass the Xanax.

SSB's the only one I'm 100% certain about keeping. Big athletic guys who can defend are worth their weight in gold. I think Eyenga has the potential to be something special, it really depends if he can put it all together on the pro level. The signs are encouraging, at least. Ermin and Samuels are also intriguing and if Davis really is playing the good soldier, he could be a solid part too.


I'm with Cass.

No one.

Not one guy I have to have and have to keep.

Eyenga? He's the Nigerian JJ Hickson. :hide: Davis and AV are the only two guys who even make a rotation on a conteding team.


Wow, that is rough. Comparing Eyenga to JJ?

It is the kid's first year in real basketball. He has improved dramatically since the summer leage. JJ is finishing his 3rd year.

The kid never had to shoot jumpers with those slow footed cats overseas. He just played higher than everyone. I am not saying he will be a great player. But if all the guy ever turns into is Shannon Brown, a 20 plus minute,10 points a game guy on a championship team, then he is well worth having.

Most of the Euro leagues aren't even Big East caliber BB. I think he deserves more than 26 games before the trash heap. JJ has played 203.

JJ is a bubble butt, good not great athlete, with snail like reflexes and minimal BB IQ.

If Eyenga grew up in the us playing on the AAU circuit his game would be light years ahead of where it is now. Instead we have to start from scratch.

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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby papacass » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:16 pm

pup wrote:Really? Andy is not a starter on a good team? Get outta here. Wish I would have thought of that.


I don't think anyone ever disputed you on that. At least I didn't. It was the whole idea that Andy is all energy and little skill. Andy is a skilled player. He's just not going to win many playoff matchups against elite centers. He can't answer the bell physically.
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:19 pm

I'm fine w/Eyenga. Not that it matters. ;-) ;) :wink:

I'd be fine if this team had had a few more and did nothing but play them.

He's raw as hell and you can tell he's driving Byron crazy, but that's Byron's job.

He does need to shoot 1000 jumpers a day with Chris Jent though. He's crazy athletic, and can get to the rim often enough just on that. If he develops a mid range jumper then he's got a chance.

jta1975 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Someone pass Cass the Xanax.

SSB's the only one I'm 100% certain about keeping. Big athletic guys who can defend are worth their weight in gold. I think Eyenga has the potential to be something special, it really depends if he can put it all together on the pro level. The signs are encouraging, at least. Ermin and Samuels are also intriguing and if Davis really is playing the good soldier, he could be a solid part too.


I'm with Cass.

No one.

Not one guy I have to have and have to keep.

Eyenga? He's the Nigerian JJ Hickson. :hide: Davis and AV are the only two guys who even make a rotation on a conteding team.


Wow, that is rough. Comparing Eyenga to JJ?

It is the kid's first year in real basketball. He has improved dramatically since the summer leage. JJ is finishing his 3rd year.

The kid never had to shoot jumpers with those slow footed cats overseas. He just played higher than everyone. I am not saying he will be a great player. But if all the guy ever turns into is Shannon Brown, a 20 plus minute,10 points a game guy on a championship team, then he is well worth having.

Most of the Euro leagues aren't even Big East caliber BB. I think he deserves more than 26 games before the trash heap. JJ has played 203.

JJ is a bubble butt, good not great athlete, with snail like reflexes and minimal BB IQ.

If Eyenga grew up in the us playing on the AAU circuit his game would be light years ahead of where it is now. Instead we have to start from scratch.

Did I just take the bait? Damn it I did.......sucker!
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Re: Keepers on current Cavs roster?

Unread postby jb » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:12 am

jerryroche wrote:There is no immediacy to make any roster determinations, as this rebuilding thing is a three-year deal. Most marginal players will be sorted out as new talent is added.

Hollins, Graham and Gee are easy. They are done. Period. A.P. and JaMo are too old to figure in the long-term plans; trade them ASAP, for as much as you can get. Baron will be 35 in three years; in another year, he’ll be an expiring contract guy who might bring something on the open market.

If the Cavs can find a true center in the next three years, that makes Andy expendable, too. Trade-wise, he might be the most valuable Cavalier next season.

Sessions, Samuels, Eyenga and Harris are all young with potential. It would be wise to hang onto them for another year or two to see if they improve with age. If not, they’re gone.

Boobie and J.J. Mouthguard, meh. Boobie can be the 15th guy on the roster of a playoff contender. The more I see J.J., the more I think he's a tease. If he can become more consistent in the next year or so, he will have a spot three years hence, but I don't hold out much hope.

Erdin and Harangody? Who knows?



Closest to my take. Except I'd add Erdin to the Sessions' group above. None will be all stars or borderline all stars probably. All could potentially be valuable spot starters abd 10 MPG role players off the bench after they develop. As much as we shield our eyes when those kind of players start, every successful NBA team needs those guys to play around the 2 - 3 alpha dogs that we hope to draft over the next 2 - 3 years.
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