tired twoa/nba business rant

[peeker643]

Peeker just a friendly reminder you're the one who brought the global interest angle into this, but FTRat this point I'm assuming you're just completely fucking around bc frankly you've gone bonkers and are in fact all over the place right now.

Initially because global interest translates into more overall popularity for the NBA than NFL football does. That's also evident in that there are professional basketball leagues in countries all over the world. From Turkey to Australia to Israel to France, etc. NFL football is popular in the US and to a much, much lesser degree in other places.

But you didn't want to talk about that so then I started fucking around.

[Spin]

Sweet fucking geezes, isn't there and Akron U squash game you should be watching right now? Pretty sure it's void of "thuggery."

Nobody likes a quitter.

[Spin]

Peeker just a friendly reminder you're the one who brought the global interest angle into this, but FTRat this point I'm assuming you're just completely fucking around bc frankly you've gone bonkers and are in fact all over the place right now.

Initially because global interest translates into more overall popularity for the NBA than NFL football does. That's also evident in that there are professional basketball leagues in countries all over the world. From Turkey to Australia to Israel to France, etc. NFL football is popular in the US and to a much, much lesser degree in other places.

But you didn't want to talk about that so then I started fucking around.

There are dozens of football leagues around the world. We just play it differently.

The NBA game is different than the rest of the world plays, not quite as different as our football, but it aint basketball...

[FUDU]

Peeker just a friendly reminder you're the one who brought the global interest angle into this, but FTRat this point I'm assuming you're just completely fucking around bc frankly you've gone bonkers and are in fact all over the place right now.

Initially because global interest translates into more overall popularity for the NBA than NFL football does. That's also evident in that there are professional basketball leagues in countries all over the world. From Turkey to Australia to Israel to France, etc. NFL football is popular in the US and to a much, much lesser degree in other places.

But you didn't want to talk about that so then I started fucking around.

It's not that I didn't want to talk about that, I really just assumed you were able to discern I was speaking on a more national level seeing as we are the only country on the planet that has both NFL & NBA franchises.

I'm open to hearing your thoughts on how and why basketball is so strategically superior to football though, unless you're sticking with the standard paint the opposing viewpoint as a ridiculous extreme approach with the "hand the ball to CJ 40 times a game".

[FUDU]

Peeker just a friendly reminder you're the one who brought the global interest angle into this, but FTRat this point I'm assuming you're just completely fucking around bc frankly you've gone bonkers and are in fact all over the place right now.

Initially because global interest translates into more overall popularity for the NBA than NFL football does. That's also evident in that there are professional basketball leagues in countries all over the world. From Turkey to Australia to Israel to France, etc. NFL football is popular in the US and to a much, much lesser degree in other places.

But you didn't want to talk about that so then I started fucking around.

There are dozens of football leagues around the world. We just play it differently.

The NBA game is different than the rest of the world plays, not quite as different as our football, but it aint basketball...

You sir must be a racist, or hang out with the likes of one.

[/sarcasticimpression]

[Spin]

I've been called worse.

On here, of course. It's easier than debating my posts...

[e0y2e3]

If anyone here ever wondered what two dyslexic kids writing a novel together would look like, well, just read FUDU and spin in succession. My year just head up.

Ingress it is just because I am afraid of debating that two headed monstrosity.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I really like this thread. There's so much going on.

[e0y2e3]

If anyone here ever wondered what two dyslexic kids writing a novel together would look like, well, just read FUDU and spin in succession. My year just head up.

Ingress it is just because I am afraid of debating that two headed monstrosity.

[Triple-S]

Screw it, from a casual fan of the NBA's perspective.

There's parts I still enjoy about the league, Blake Griffen being some sort of human highlight reel has been making me sort of pull for him. I would really like to see him and Durant develop into the new faces of the association.

I can appreciate the athleticism that the guys put on a weekly basis during the season (though sort of hard to stomach the current edition of the Cavs with Ryan Hollins, JJ Hickson and co.), but I'm not sure if I'd really care for the league as much if they contracted the Cavs as Eyo sugguested. Thats an admitted homer take, but I feel much more vested in the Wine and Gold as a team, than say the sport itself. Same with Pro Football and the Brownies, and the Tribe and baseball.

I'm not a fan of the super-team format the way this current generation of guys are doing it. One thing for Bulls, Lakers and Celtics of yesterday to do it, because they did it mainly through some pretty good Front Office moves both in the draft and via possible trades. Quite another when a couple of guys like the 3 in miami do it to form their own pro-version of an AAU team. But I think that the league is fix-able to steer it away from that sort of thing.

On the NFL, I enjoy it, but not near enough as say, the college game. I think that eyo is actually correct in the "Good QB's" win the ring argument, but I'd also argue, you need some form of talent around them. You can't just toss Tom Brady on the Browns and expect to win 14 games, you have to have some semblance of a team on both sides of the ball.

In regards to "fantasy" being one of the major reasons why the NFL is on tops, I could understand that. But that wouldn't explain that how it has been the number 1 sport in America since 1959. And don't jump on me, I know my place in terms of history, I was not around for the AFL merger, not when Up With People were preforming Half-Time. But it seems to me, that the NFL game just happened to translate better to TV back in the day and just found a way to keep evolving during these past 50 or so years. Fantasy, was a part of that evolution. The interesting mix of small and big market franchises seeming to be apart of what it is today.

I could argue that outside of the Spurs and maybe the Pistons, in the history of the association, the NBA is more of a big market league. Apples to Oranges

[hiko]

You can't just toss Tom Brady on the Browns and expect to win 14 games, you have to have some semblance of a team on both sides of the ball.

Bejarvus Whatever
Danny Woodhead
Deon Branch
Brandon Tate
Julian Edelman
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Brandon Merry-Whether
Pat Chung
Freakin' Gerard Freakin' Warren
Leigh Bodden
Darrius Butler

That's your 14-2 team.

Honestly, if you look at the talent on that team, if you don't have Tom Brady and you don't have Bill Bellichick, how south of .500 is that 14-2 team?

Premium talent is premium in all leagues. Yes, it matters that much.

[hiko]

I could argue that outside of the Spurs and maybe the Pistons, in the history of the association, the NBA is more of a big market league.

Well, of course. Why even argue?

Basketball is clearly the sport most driven by the individual players. They drive the league. That's exactly why the sport is at such a crossroads - the players have made the league what it is, and now the ownership is pissed to have suddenly figured out that they're just glorified midwives.

[Spin]

You can't just toss Tom Brady on the Browns and expect to win 14 games, you have to have some semblance of a team on both sides of the ball.

You can't have just one superstar player and win in the NBA either.

Signed,

Danny Ferry

Minnesota Timber Wolves
Toronto Raptors
Denver Nuggets
Dallas Mavericks

Oklahoma City Thunder
Los Angeles Clippers

[Spin]

I could argue that outside of the Spurs and maybe the Pistons, in the history of the association, the NBA is more of a big market league.

Well, of course. Why even argue?

Basketball is clearly the sport most driven by the individual players. They drive the league. That's exactly why the sport is at such a crossroads - the players have made the league what it is, and now the ownership is pissed to have suddenly figured out that they're just glorified midwives.

Back to my original point (because as soon as I come at an argument from different angles, ee ii ee ii ooooo just cowers in the corner and lobs insults) we've had this discussion for months on the IndyCar forum. You remember IndyCar, they raced in Cleveland before NASCAR all but put them out of business...

Nobody here is arguing the NBA is big money, big market. Or the NFL is all about the "level playing field". And there's hard core fans who like both (thus the IndyCar split).

But, beyond them, what sells?

We saw the NFL using the "any given Sunday" marketing scheme to bulldoze everyone else into the dump as far as popularity is concerned. Then the regional racing series NASCAR used it (and American drivers) to leapfrog IndyCar and everyone else to the top of the racing ladder. They're starting to fall back to Earth due to some baaad decisions, and killing off a legend is always bad for long term popularity. Daytona helped. A team that hasn't won in 30 years, with a rookie driver won the big prize. Nothing says parity like a feel-good story like that. IMPOSSIBLE in the NBA.

And it's not just a Euro-American thing either, we're seeing Formula One under fan pressure to make it more of a level playing field, which we're starting to see the results of. There's a fine line of being high tech and building the best car, and having a leve playing field. Good luck, you'll never please anybody.

But we've seen over and over, competition is more popular. Parity is more popular. Small towns Green Bay and New Orleans able to outthink, outwork, and outcoach everyone else being able to win the championship, that's popular.

It's only natural. When you think about it, there are a lot more people who live outside the top 5 markets than live in them. Journalists and some fans want dynasties (if they're i the right place). Most fans want parity.

[FUDU]

If anyone here ever wondered what two dyslexic kids writing a novel together would look like, well, just read FUDU and spin in succession. My year just head up.

Ingress it is just because I am afraid of debating that two headed monstrosity.

This is what makes it all so worth it sometimes, the schmuck thinks he is God's gift to message boards but makes the exact same post two separate times, once in the 1 o clock hour and then again 2 hours later. Tough to blame that one on the site.

The kid will figure it out someday, meanwhile he'll just use projections, copy & pasting and flat out BS his way through a thread.

[Orenthal]

You mean NFL Europe isn't lighting a fire under young Spaniards?

Perception is my NFL team has a chance every year. In the day and age of the salary cap and free agency the only thing you can buy into is the "team". The NFL has done a better job of making the league team centric. NBA = Players are the dicks moving around as they will. NFL = Owners/GMs cutting long time players due to the insanity of how deals are structured. When loyalty is absent in the equation, you build around what is most permanent.

The rest of the BS you guys bring up is subjective personal taste.

[Orenthal]

btw who thought a barely coherent OP would bring such a debate. I didn't. I was more of the opinion it would die with a few views.

[e0y2e3]

What did the OP say? Never actually read it.

[peeker643]

I really like this thread. There's so much going on.

You're welcome.

I really don't know what's going here anymore other than FUDU making assumptions and me being a dick. Actually, that goes on in every thread here.

But I have no idea how we got where we are. Not even sure how the global thing was started or why other than I'm still on a lot of medications and things get foggy sometimes. And I'm not going back to look. Eff that.

And FUDU is sick too. I remember that he's on cold medicine and he's bitchy about snow in his driveway and his Chipotle closing..

And now I have an article to write and don't feel like doing it. Fuck me.

[e0y2e3]

Ya know - encapsulations of this threat would make a great article

[peeker643]

Ya know - encapsulations of this threat would make a great article

That would require me to re-visit it all. And that would give me another excruciating headache when the one from January 1st is finally gone.

I'll let a colleague do it.

[e0y2e3]

Damnit yo - I really just want to copywrite F*D* work. We could easily turn this into some cash bro.

[FUDU]

LOL, I could say the same thing but that would end up as copyright infringement and plagerisism seeing as this is SOP for my yo-yo eye. I should probably call him Duncan from now on.

Instead of diverting attention why not enlighten us all on the obvious intellectual supremacies of hoop strategy v. football? Why, b/c it is way easier to revert to eye's playbook of
A) try to convince others hoops requires an Einsteinian analysis to give his ego a boost
B) mindless tired insults
C) get drunk and piss on forum, piss on the forum
D) play it off like it's everyone else who is dumb
E) repeat A-B

...shit I don't even need a degree in psychology to diagnose this crap.

[Orenthal]

I check every night for C. Been too long. Maybe I'll take the baton. Only a couple beers/shots will have me in rage mode.

[e0y2e3]

Two quick questions FUDU:

1) Where did I say hoops is "more" x and o heavy than football

2) Did you ever play a sport (you know, real team style) beyond fifth grade? Do you even know what football X's and O's are?

PS: YMCA hoops with Peeks fat ass doesnt count

[Triple-S]

Whats your further take on the game of football?

do you feel more disconnected with the Browns? Is there any level that you appreciate at the moment? parts that you can't stand (outside of the whole mediocre teams element, and emphasis on QB play)

[e0y2e3]

Look you going a bit more personal than I want to go here but I'll humor you.

My sports viewing life started with little kid watching baseball with my dad. Only sport I cared about and I didn't quit till football made me.

Spend 18-25 living eating and breathing football. I was on a schollie and/or I was at a great school thanks to the sport and I milked all I could out of it. That said when I was at Hop we only lost 1 game because we "out strategerized" the other team. Used to beat the crap out of em with nothing but intellect and speed. Football is a strategy based game, no doubt but it isn't rocket science. For fuck's sake the invention of the "zone blitz" was the einsteinian equivalent for the game.

Anyhow at this point I just want to watch the best play the best. I'll always cheer for C-town teams but I don't want to be wasting my time watching shitty players play in the NFL nor do I want to waste my time watching Cleveland State play hoops. Best of the best all day every day. I find that the five man format of hoops keeps me far more interested when the best are playing the best than watching a watered down sport where having three good players makes you the best while there are 22 on the field at a time (and that is all IMO).

I can call football plays before they happen because I know playbooks but yet I still get to read FUDU telling me how "deep thinking" the game is.

Slit My Throat

[e0y2e3]

Oh and I do love top twenty five CFB. The cream rises and falls clearly and they play the game hard. WAY better than the NFL.

[FUDU]

And I'm not even going to touch the NFL being a thinking mans game and the NBA not. That's pretty much the dumbest thing you have ever written and you have a hell of a resume.

Unless this is a secret code for +1 I'd sure say you think the NBA is the intellectual superior of the two games. Just by the inherent nature of the two sports that is absurd, while the NBA is not 100% void of strategy/smarts it easily falls short of football. Your ego just can't handle that aspect, that is all this is about for you.

...and while I know you love to tell us about your own personal bests in the gym I'll leave my personal resume offerings at I've played both and coached both but my experience in hoops out weighs my football experiences.

Of course that is all my opinion, except for the last 3 sentences.

[e0y2e3]

And I'm not even going to touch the NFL being a thinking mans game and the NBA not. That's pretty much the dumbest thing you have ever written and you have a hell of a resume.

Unless this is a secret code for +1 I'd sure say you think the NBA is the intellectual superior of the two games. Just by the inherent nature of the two sports that is absurd, while the NBA is not 100% void of strategy/smarts it easily falls short of football. Your ego just can't handle that aspect, that is all this is about for you.

...and while I know you love to tell us about your own personal bests in the gym I'll leave my personal resume offerings at I've played both and coached both but my experience in hoops out weighs my football experiences.

Of course that is all my opinion, except for the last 3 sentences.

Can you read? Seriously? Can we bring in outsiders to judge what in that quoted statement implies that I am saying the NBA is more a thinking game than the NFL.

Seriously, I'll send you $100 bucks if anyone else here is as illiterate as you.

[e0y2e3]

Oh and coaching six year olds doens't qualify you for shit (beyond being a sexual predator, which, well isn't surprising)

[FUDU]

Tactic D is in play I see. Going a bit out of order tonight, a bit out of order tonight?

So you've had enough time to spin your comments, what "exactly" were you implying with that quote? ..and just post it once we can't have people wasting precious space around here.

[e0y2e3]

Yeah - no way I could have meant that coaches in all sports are responsible for leading men and devising systems. Nope, I certainly said "THE NBA IS MUCH HARDER CONCEPTUALLY THAN THE NFL"

Do you have any clue how stupid you are?

[peeker643]

..and just post it once we can't have people wasting precious space around here.

I'm fucked if that's the case.

^^ Case in point ^^

[e0y2e3]

..and just post it once we can't have people wasting precious space around here.

I'm fucked if that's the case.

^^ Case in point ^^

The funny part is that FUDU has been reading me for ten years and has no better smack than "YOU POSTED TWICE!@$!!!1" Fuck me and my cell phone..... =-(

[FUDU]

FFS wearing your Mr.Obvious cape tonight, that is pathetically weak explanation eye, and embarrassing considering how much time you had to spin that into something reasonable.

...and Peeker, I'm right with ya.

[FUDU]

..and just post it once we can't have people wasting precious space around here.

I'm fucked if that's the case.

^^ Case in point ^^

The funny part is that FUDU has been reading me for ten years and has no better smack than "YOU POSTED TWICE!@$!!!1" At least my smack involves calling out people making double threads & stealing avatars not to mention calling them racists. Call me Lord of the Smack

[HoodooMan]

Here is where I am in a roundabout way. I prefer the soft cap system of the NBA where dynasties and heroes and villains can be made. Sports are a novel to me and drama, protagonists and antagonists should be center stage.

OK, that's what used to be great about the NBA. Back when the league wasn't overrun by douchebags who don't especially care about winning, since they're all going to the same club and banging the same groupies afterwards anyway.

Guys like Kobe & Pierce are NBA relics. If this is what you love about NBA basketball, you'd better hope they find the fountain of yooof and fast.

As Simmons apparently points out...this isn't some unprecedented event.

<--scowling.

Abbreviated history of NBA basketball: Practically no one gave a shit about it for quite some time, then Larry & Magic came around and the league was really F'ing awesome and had lots of mass appeal for roughly 20 years until MJ retired (the second time). Then it went back to being something practically no one gave a shit about.

For that 20 yearish period of time when the NBA was worth watching, Simmons comes up with Barkley (legit example), Kidd, Allen, and a bunch of guys in their 30s. I don't remember the circumstances surrounding Kidd & Allen's departures from Dallas & Milwaukee, in part, I'd guess, because they weren't LBJ/Wade/Melo/DWill/Howard/CP3-level stars at the time, but they were at least very good and still young players who I assume forced their way into different situations, so I'll give him that. But to write that list and pretend this is nothing new is an F'ing joke and an insult to anyone not working at ESPN and continuously masturbating thinking about all the benefits this situation has for the biggest of the big markets. Equating stars in their prime 1) flocking to the biggest of the big markets and 2) clustering themselves together because they're so vaginal they can't handle either the hero or villain role--equating [b]that[/b] with 31-year-old AI & KG, 32-year-old Drexler, 33-year-old Pippen, and 34-year-old Payton moving on to their second teams is outrageously asinine.

[FUDU]

As to somebody coming in here and getting back on track (WTF ARE YOU DOING!), half the guys listed by the talking heads these past few weeks (the ones that jumped shipped over the past 10-20 years), were chasing rings when their better days had past, so again the context of this mess today is badly missed by them.

IOW good post.

[peeker643]

As to somebody coming in here and getting back on track (WTF ARE YOU DOING!), half the guys listed by the talking heads these past few weeks (the ones that jumped shipped over the past 10-20 years), were chasing rings when their better days had past, so again the context of this mess today is badly missed by them.

IOW good post.

That's what this was all about?

Fuck me.

I need a new hobby.

[Triple-S]

outside of the FUDU fight, am actually really enjoying this thread.

the best posters around here with some solid takes.

Would love to ask more of the CFB take from eyo. as, CFB has changed more and more to include more mid-majors to be in the top 25 he touched on, versus back in say the 70's where it was strictly a "ACC/BIG TEN/BIG 8/SWC/PAC 8/Notre Dame" sort of thing.

[FUDU]

As to somebody coming in here and getting back on track (WTF ARE YOU DOING!), half the guys listed by the talking heads these past few weeks (the ones that jumped shipped over the past 10-20 years), were chasing rings when their better days had past, so again the context of this mess today is badly missed by them.

IOW good post.

That's what this was all about?

Fuck me.

I need a new hobby.

That's the rumor I heard, as far as your new hobby needs, I'll post a few suggestions around 12:30am.

[e0y2e3]

/thread killah.

Cheers all.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Holy fuck! This thread is like a rollercoster of hilariousness (word?). Stay the fuck away from my medicine cabinet, DU, I always knew you were a crazy dope fiend.

[Spin]

I certainly said "THE NBA IS MUCH HARDER CONCEPTUALLY THAN THE NFL"

Is that what you call it when they call a timeout, and LeBron is checking out a skank in the upper deck instead of listening, then takes the ball, dribbles up court, and stands at the tre line for 20 seconds instead of running the play? While Roker sits in his chair knowing if he yells, he'll be the next Sloan? Real cerebral stuff there...

Or the three amigo's trying to run Spoelstra out of the country before he finally laid a jar of Vaseline on the table and bent over for the "Three Amigos"? Those guys obviously want to be schooled in the nuances of the coach's concept.

Would love to ask more of the CFB take from eyo. as, CFB has changed more and more to include more mid-majors to be in the top 25 he touched on, versus back in say the 70's where it was strictly a "ACC/BIG TEN/BIG 8/SWC/PAC 8/Notre Dame" sort of thing.

He's probably still pissed at Butler for muddying up the basketball tournament last year...

[Orenthal]

I certainly said "THE NBA IS MUCH HARDER CONCEPTUALLY THAN THE NFL"

Is that what you call it when they call a timeout, and LeBron is checking out a skank in the upper deck instead of listening, then takes the ball, dribbles up court, and stands at the tre line for 20 seconds instead of running the play? While Roker sits in his chair knowing if he yells, he'll be the next Sloan? Real cerebral stuff there...

The above quote is being taken out of context. The point, before this spiraled, was that the NBA isn't without strategy. I believe it was donny that made the first pre-emptive strike on eyeyeyeyeye knowing eyeyeyeyeye's long standing NBA>NFL. His saying the NBA isn't a thinking mans game?

I'm sure both entail some level of strategy. /end

[jb]

You mean NFL Europe isn't lighting a fire under young Spaniards?

Perception is my NFL team has a chance every year. In the day and age of the salary cap and free agency the only thing you can buy into is the "team". The NFL has done a better job of making the league team centric. NBA = Players are the dicks moving around as they will. NFL = Owners/GMs cutting long time players due to the insanity of how deals are structured. When loyalty is absent in the equation, you build around what is most permanent.

The rest of the BS you guys bring up is subjective personal taste.

Hammer meet nail.



Really objective & really succinct.

Only thing I might add is the short careers of NFL have nots probably change the nature of the CBA. Be interesting to see how the new class of NBA Untouchables will react to the new Brahmins. With 3 man max leaving the majority underpaid, when the ring chasing vets out of the mix, the rank and file should want the change.

[Orenthal]

outside of the FUDU fight, am actually really enjoying this thread.

the best posters around here with some solid takes.

Would love to ask more of the CFB take from eyo. as, CFB has changed more and more to include more mid-majors to be in the top 25 he touched on, versus back in say the 70's where it was strictly a "ACC/BIG TEN/BIG 8/SWC/PAC 8/Notre Dame" sort of thing.

Holy gawd if you want to shoot yorself in the head chack the Cavaliers forum at tOBR. RCF is so bad I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to go there. Too much time + the trade deadline = some cringe worthy reading.

[dmiles]

In changing the subject (maybe a new thread) now that we are in full buyout/rent-a-bench player season, is there any chance at all that Troy Murphy goes to the Heat? While I doubt he'd put them over the top I hate to see any kind of depth big go to the Heat. Need to keep them thin on size,

[jonne99]

Top shelf arguments all.

Thread of the year??

way to start it back up again eye. started to die at the first third of the second page. I wish i could hear this actual argument in public between you guys. without emoticons. but we could probably get some pancakes for the winner.

Fuck the heat. that team should have been contracted during the rony seikaly years.