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Chad Durbin?

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Chad Durbin?

Unread postby TonyIPI » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:36 pm

Heyman just tweeted that the Indians are very likely to sign him in the next day or two. Color me puzzled on this one.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:41 pm

Didn't we have one of those a few years ago?

Not sure why we'd need another one.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:49 pm

My fiancee informs me that Chad Durbin's wife was on an episode of Say Yes to the Dress.

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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:21 pm

Looks like Antonetti is no different than Shapiro. He can't keep his hands off of mediocre, aging players, while extolling the virtues of all our major league ready relievers that we have no room for on the big league team.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:58 pm

Bigfist wrote:Looks like Antonetti is no different than Shapiro. He can't keep his hands off of mediocre, aging players, while extolling the virtues of all our major league ready relievers that we have no room for on the big league team.


Interesting. Jon Heyman called Orlando Cabrera and (presumably) Chad Durbin as "solid late pickups".
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:14 pm

Well, if the 33 year old Durbin is in our bullpen in this year when we will be lucky to win 74 games..well, you see where I am headed with this one. C. Perez, R. Perez, Sipp, Smith, and Lewis are essentially locks to be in the pen, and I would think Hermann would be there too. If we sign Durbin, well that completes the pen, so again, guys like Pestano, Judy, Stowell, etc., are sent back for more "seasoning."

I guess I am in the Ocker camp..I just don't get the obsession with signing aging players on this team that has no chance to compete.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:24 pm

I guess we are making a World Series run quicker than I thought. Chad Durbin, Orlando Cabrera, Adam Everett, Austin Kearns....not all we need is a shitty ass platoon outfielder and a soft tossing lefty
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:29 pm

Bigfist wrote:Well, if the 33 year old Durbin is in our bullpen in this year when we will be lucky to win 74 games..well, you see where I am headed with this one. C. Perez, R. Perez, Sipp, Smith, and Lewis are essentially locks to be in the pen, and I would think Hermann would be there too. If we sign Durbin, well that completes the pen, so again, guys like Pestano, Judy, Stowell, etc., are sent back for more "seasoning."

I guess I am in the Ocker camp..I just don't get the obsession with signing aging players on this team that has no chance to compete.


Just wondering which of those young guys would be able to give us 3 or 4 innings if a starter gets shelled? Or which ones we would want to extend their young arm as a long reliever.

Durbin, if he makes the team, will do so to be a long reliever. He's a veteran who will understand his role and eat bullpen innings.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:48 am

skatingtripods wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if the 33 year old Durbin is in our bullpen in this year when we will be lucky to win 74 games..well, you see where I am headed with this one. C. Perez, R. Perez, Sipp, Smith, and Lewis are essentially locks to be in the pen, and I would think Hermann would be there too. If we sign Durbin, well that completes the pen, so again, guys like Pestano, Judy, Stowell, etc., are sent back for more "seasoning."

I guess I am in the Ocker camp..I just don't get the obsession with signing aging players on this team that has no chance to compete.


Just wondering which of those young guys would be able to give us 3 or 4 innings if a starter gets shelled? Or which ones we would want to extend their young arm as a long reliever.

Durbin, if he makes the team, will do so to be a long reliever. He's a veteran who will understand his role and eat bullpen innings.


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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:08 am

motherscratcher wrote:Didn't we have one of those a few years ago?

Not sure why we'd need another one.




AWESOME! Well played :salute:
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:13 am

skatingtripods wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if the 33 year old Durbin is in our bullpen in this year when we will be lucky to win 74 games..well, you see where I am headed with this one. C. Perez, R. Perez, Sipp, Smith, and Lewis are essentially locks to be in the pen, and I would think Hermann would be there too. If we sign Durbin, well that completes the pen, so again, guys like Pestano, Judy, Stowell, etc., are sent back for more "seasoning."

I guess I am in the Ocker camp..I just don't get the obsession with signing aging players on this team that has no chance to compete.


Just wondering which of those young guys would be able to give us 3 or 4 innings if a starter gets shelled? Or which ones we would want to extend their young arm as a long reliever.

Durbin, if he makes the team, will do so to be a long reliever. He's a veteran who will understand his role and eat bullpen innings.


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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:33 am

skatingtripods wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if the 33 year old Durbin is in our bullpen in this year when we will be lucky to win 74 games..well, you see where I am headed with this one. C. Perez, R. Perez, Sipp, Smith, and Lewis are essentially locks to be in the pen, and I would think Hermann would be there too. If we sign Durbin, well that completes the pen, so again, guys like Pestano, Judy, Stowell, etc., are sent back for more "seasoning."

I guess I am in the Ocker camp..I just don't get the obsession with signing aging players on this team that has no chance to compete.


Just wondering which of those young guys would be able to give us 3 or 4 innings if a starter gets shelled? Or which ones we would want to extend their young arm as a long reliever.

Durbin, if he makes the team, will do so to be a long reliever. He's a veteran who will understand his role and eat bullpen innings.


I know Laffey is supposedly battling for a spot in the rotation, but I've been figuring him for the bullpen where I assumed he'd more or less be the long man.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:41 am

motherscratcher wrote:Didn't we have one of those a few years ago?

Not sure why we'd need another one.




AWESOME! Well played :salute:
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 am

Antonetti has picked up many of Shap's bad habits

However I did like Chad Durbin when he was here. Might be a useful arm if we have any injuries
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby paulcousineau » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:49 am

Really, nobody sees the value in adding a RH arm who pitched 47 of his 64 games last year from the 7th inning on with the Phillies? Realizing that it is "just" Chad Durbin, since he became a full-time reliever, he's posted a 3.62 ERA (117 ERA+) and a 1.37 WHIP over the last 3 years.

Depending upon the deal (which at worst is a one-year deal), what better options do the Indians have - out of the gate - in the 7th and 8th innings as a RH arm?
Jensen Lewis?
Please...and let's hold off on anointing Herrmann or Pestano or Judy ready for that role when none of them has had sustained success in MLB.
Will they?
Maybe eventually, but adding an experienced RH arm to the Sipp/R. Perez 7th/8th inning mix is something that's lacking on this team and Durbin would fit that bill.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby pup » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:10 pm

How do we find out if
Herrmann or Pestano or Judy
are ready for that role by pitching a Durbin in it?

With bullpen arms being a PREMIUM piece to be addded by any of the contenders, I wonder why someone who pitched a bunch of 7th innings with an [shaking head]ERA+[/shaking head] of 117 is just hanging around waiting for his big oppurtunity to hold leads for a 75 win team?
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Jumbo » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:10 pm

It's a loose comparison, but...Chad Durbin could be Bobby Howry, no?

I can already see it: after two solid years with the Indians, Durbin signs a three-year contract with Texas or somebody. And Dolan is Cheap.

Kidding aside, adding bullpen arms like this really doesn't bother me at all. It's qualitatively different than picking up an Orlando Cabrera, for example. If you assume that the Indians will consistently have six or seven relievers who are consistently better than Durbin for the entire season...then you're more optimistic about the Indians than me. Similarly, I think there will be enough flameouts, meltdowns, and injuries for all of the multitude at AAA to get some games in at the major league level.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby paulcousineau » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:23 pm

pup wrote:How do we find out if
Herrmann or Pestano or Judy
are ready for that role by pitching a Durbin in it?

With bullpen arms being a PREMIUM piece to be addded by any of the contenders, I wonder why someone who pitched a bunch of 7th innings with an [shaking head]ERA+[/shaking head] of 117 is just hanging around waiting for his big oppurtunity to hold leads for a 75 win team?

That's the thing with bullpen arms though. Can anyone say definitively that Joaquin Benoit is going to be better than Chad Durbin? Benoit just got a 3-year deal with the Tigers after spending last Spring as a minor-league invite to Rays' camp. Which strategy would you rather see THIS Indians' team take?

Just because your (shaking head) perception (shaking head) of Chad Durbin doesn't do much for you, you feel better about Herrmann or Pestano or Judy pitching the 8th inning from Day 1?
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:52 pm

paulcousineau wrote:
pup wrote:How do we find out if
Herrmann or Pestano or Judy
are ready for that role by pitching a Durbin in it?

With bullpen arms being a PREMIUM piece to be addded by any of the contenders, I wonder why someone who pitched a bunch of 7th innings with an [shaking head]ERA+[/shaking head] of 117 is just hanging around waiting for his big oppurtunity to hold leads for a 75 win team?

That's the thing with bullpen arms though. Can anyone say definitively that Joaquin Benoit is going to be better than Chad Durbin? Benoit just got a 3-year deal with the Tigers after spending last Spring as a minor-league invite to Rays' camp. Which strategy would you rather see THIS Indians' team take?

Just because your (shaking head) perception (shaking head) of Chad Durbin doesn't do much for you, you feel better about Herrmann or Pestano or Judy pitching the 8th inning from Day 1?


But isn't there some advantage to finding out what those guys will do. And we sure aren't going to know unless they pitch. And every inning that Chad Durbin pitches is an inning where we aren't evaluating what we have in Herrmann, Pestano, of Judy.

Of course, I am the guy that thought that Laffey would be filling Durbin's role, but we'll leave that aside for a moment and pretend I'm not an idiot.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:06 pm

Given the volatility of relief pitchers historically, as well as the inevitable injuries, there will be plenty of opportunities for those three guys, and others, to get meaningful innings this year, at least as meaningful as any innings can be on a team that's going to suck. Let's face it, after Jensen Lewis' whiny Tweets last year, how long is he going to last in this organization.

There is something to be said for a veteran who knows his role and has been fairly successful over the past few years pitching on a team with a lot of young guys learning the ropes. Worse case scenario, he struggles and the Tribe dumps him at mid-season. Nothing lost there. Best case, he holds the lead for a few games so that our starting pitchers don't get demoralized every time the Frank Herrmann's of the world give up their lead in the 7th learning their craft.

It's really not that big of an issue. Having Durbin on the roster isn't going to stunt anyone's growth, IMHO.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby paulcousineau » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:10 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
paulcousineau wrote:
pup wrote:How do we find out if
Herrmann or Pestano or Judy
are ready for that role by pitching a Durbin in it?

With bullpen arms being a PREMIUM piece to be addded by any of the contenders, I wonder why someone who pitched a bunch of 7th innings with an [shaking head]ERA+[/shaking head] of 117 is just hanging around waiting for his big oppurtunity to hold leads for a 75 win team?

That's the thing with bullpen arms though. Can anyone say definitively that Joaquin Benoit is going to be better than Chad Durbin? Benoit just got a 3-year deal with the Tigers after spending last Spring as a minor-league invite to Rays' camp. Which strategy would you rather see THIS Indians' team take?

Just because your (shaking head) perception (shaking head) of Chad Durbin doesn't do much for you, you feel better about Herrmann or Pestano or Judy pitching the 8th inning from Day 1?


But isn't there some advantage to finding out what those guys will do. And we sure aren't going to know unless they pitch. And every inning that Chad Durbin pitches is an inning where we aren't evaluating what we have in Herrmann, Pestano, of Judy.

Of course, I am the guy that thought that Laffey would be filling Durbin's role, but we'll leave that aside for a moment and pretend I'm not an idiot.


Maybe, but it seems that every time the Indians are supposed to have a strong bullpen, they don't. The career arcs of J. Lewis and R. Perez are more the rules with relievers and we've seen too recently what happens to a team when a bullpen sabotages a season.

I'm all for evaluating those young guys and letting them pitch. I just don't know if you go with Pestano (just to use him as an example) as your RH set-up guy out of the gate. Certainly, the only way you find out about how they fit into the 7th or 8th inning is by putting them in there and maybe Joe Smith and Jensen Lewis provide enough of a cushion there, but those two underwhelm me and I'm not ready to slot these young guys in that deep in the bullpen based only on promise.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:26 pm

paulcousineau wrote:Really, nobody sees the value in adding a RH arm who pitched 47 of his 64 games last year from the 7th inning on with the Phillies? Realizing that it is "just" Chad Durbin, since he became a full-time reliever, he's posted a 3.62 ERA (117 ERA+) and a 1.37 WHIP over the last 3 years.


Good stuff, Paulie C.

I have serious concerns about who will be the guy to pitch the 8th inning from the right side and bridge that gap to CPerez. There's a supplementary side effect to this, it's that, while we may be "stunting" the growth of Pestano, Judy, Stowell, Herrmann, etc., I find it much more important to give CPerez as many save opportunities as possible to make sure that last year wasn't a fluke.

If Durbin does that, I'm thrilled. And a guy with big league experience and a solid track record as a reliever has more of an opportunity to do that than four unproven guys.

Not earth shattering, but it's a wise move. If you trot Durbin out there 65 times, you can burn his arm as much as you want. You won't want to do that with the others.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby TonyIPI » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:13 am

Personally, I don't make this signing nor do I like it. In understand why the Indians did it - mostly as Paulie explained - but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Sure, Chad Durbin has some experience pitching in the 7th inning and beyond. But experience or not, he is still Chad Durbin, and if he was worth anything in the 7th inning or beyond to any team but the Indians he would have been signed already. Frankly, I would have been just fine with going with Lewis and any of the yutes in the 7th/8th inning role this year and finding out who can pitch there. No we lose probably up to at least 3 months to try and find that out since Durbin prob fills that role.

Curious who gets the axe now. Does Shelley Duncan have nine lives? Do they finally cut ties with Nix? Who they remove could go a long way at showing who makes the club as the 3B or the RH bat off the bench.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:11 am

Looks like a done deal. $800K plus up to $1 million in incentives. Seems like a lot of money for 64 innings on a cash-strapped team that won't contend and is building with youth. I don't get it.

I assume he'll take the spot of Lewis or Hermann. What's the point of sending either of them to Columbus? They both dominate at the AAA level.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby redneckofsc » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:00 am

Prosecutor wrote:Looks like a done deal. $800K plus up to $1 million in incentives. Seems like a lot of money for 64 innings on a cash-strapped team that won't contend and is building with youth. I don't get it.

I assume he'll take the spot of Lewis or Hermann. What's the point of sending either of them to Columbus? They both dominate at the AAA level.



You act surpised. Like this is something new that hasnt been going on the for the last ten years.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:20 am

redneckofsc wrote:You act surprised. Like this is something new that hasnt been going on the for the last ten years.


Which part of this makes you guys angry?

Really, nobody sees the value in adding a RH arm who pitched 47 of his 64 games last year from the 7th inning on with the Phillies? Realizing that it is "just" Chad Durbin, since he became a full-time reliever, he's posted a 3.62 ERA (117 ERA+) and a 1.37 WHIP over the last 3 years.


Here we go again with guys blowing a load over unproven minor league guys and assuming because Durbin is there they won't get a chance to see what the kids can do. Seems to me kids like C Perez, R Perez, Carmona, Carrasco, Masterson, Laffey, Lewis, Sipp, Huff and Todd, et al have gotten plenty of chances to see what they can do over the years and continue to get those chances. Or isn't that enough?

They'll get their chance. They always do at some point. Must be approaching March on the TCF 'Calendar of Complaints'. :hide:
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby MikeCheckGW » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:25 am

Not quite sure what the issue is.. The Tribe added a veteran 'pen arm for a cheap price. If he doesn't work out, they aren't losing much. If he does, then they can either ride him out until the end of the season being a part of a dominate bullpen, or, probably more likely, trade him at the deadline for a prospect or 2, ala Raffy Betancourt. Low risk, medium reward. This is the current state of our Tribe.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby redneckofsc » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:34 am

What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:10 pm

redneckofsc wrote:What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.


Because you don't know that to be the case.

If you get a 2007 year from Carmona and Carrasco and Masterson do what they did in the 2nd half then you have no idea where you might be in the division. If they don't or if they falter then you have plenty of time to bring in kids to look at. This isn't really a difficult and complex issue. A million different things could happen.

Play to win til you know it's futile and then see what you have for the future. People act like if Durbin starts the year here then that means there's no possible way for the other guys to get a look.

If that's the case then tell me how all the pitchers I mentioned above ever got a chance.

Please? I'd like to hear how all those guys were squeezed out by veterans or how their development was hindered by not making the team out of spring training. And I'll get nothing from those bitching because those players either obviously got their chance during the season OR they made the team out of spring training.

Making the argument is just ridiculous when you look at the roster. But if there's nothing to be miserable about some people ain't happy. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:58 pm

peeker643 wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.


Because you don't know that to be the case.

If you get a 2007 year from Carmona and Carrasco and Masterson do what they did in the 2nd half then you have no idea where you might be in the division. If they don't or if they falter then you have plenty of time to bring in kids to look at. This isn't really a difficult and complex issue. A million different things could happen.

Play to win til you know it's futile and then see what you have for the future. People act like if Durbin starts the year here then that means there's no possible way for the other guys to get a look.

If that's the case then tell me how all the pitchers I mentioned above ever got a chance.

Please? I'd like to hear how all those guys were squeezed out by veterans or how their development was hindered by not making the team out of spring training. And I'll get nothing from those bitching because those players either obviously got their chance during the season OR they made the team out of spring training.

Making the argument is just ridiculous when you look at the roster. But if there's nothing to be miserable about some people ain't happy. ;-) ;) :wink:


Making a ridiculous argument looking at this roster is the one that uses being alive in July.

You going over to the Hafner is going back to King Kong mode this year too?
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:13 pm

Anyone wanna bet that there WON'T be a spot in this bullpen during the course of the year, even if Chad Durbin is in it 162?

Young guys will get their chance. And if they pitch well they'll stay.

There isn't a team, let alone a sub .500 team with pitching problems, that's gonna lock-out good pitching from their pen.

Unless, of course, we're playing the contract game, and one would assume, if a player is earmarked for Chad Durbin's current role, he's not a guy you would do this with.

I would hope.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:18 pm

pup wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.


Because you don't know that to be the case.

If you get a 2007 year from Carmona and Carrasco and Masterson do what they did in the 2nd half then you have no idea where you might be in the division. If they don't or if they falter then you have plenty of time to bring in kids to look at. This isn't really a difficult and complex issue. A million different things could happen.

Play to win til you know it's futile and then see what you have for the future. People act like if Durbin starts the year here then that means there's no possible way for the other guys to get a look.

If that's the case then tell me how all the pitchers I mentioned above ever got a chance.

Please? I'd like to hear how all those guys were squeezed out by veterans or how their development was hindered by not making the team out of spring training. And I'll get nothing from those bitching because those players either obviously got their chance during the season OR they made the team out of spring training.

Making the argument is just ridiculous when you look at the roster. But if there's nothing to be miserable about some people ain't happy. ;-) ;) :wink:


Making a ridiculous argument looking at this roster is the one that uses being alive in July.

You going over to the Hafner is going back to King Kong mode this year too?


I have zero idea what you're saying or asking in the first sentence.

And no, Hafner is washed out. I have no idea how one can't differentiate and use their head in separating people, positions and situations.

But keep going, by all means.

ANd then let me know which of the young pitchers currently on the roster never got their chance to make this roster.

Okay? Thanks.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby MikeCheckGW » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:43 pm

redneckofsc wrote:What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.



The point is, the Tribe took a minimal gamble to get a veteran presence in their pen. If it works out, great, Durbin will help the Tribe win some games, which last I checked was the name of the game. If it doesnt work out, then the Tribe can cut the line at any time.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:52 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:What is the point though? This team will be in the bottom 5 worse teams next year, so why sign someone like Chad Durbin.....o wait...I suppose to we can trade him at the deadline for 10 dollars in cash or a 28 year old middle reliever in AAA.


Because you don't know that to be the case.

If you get a 2007 year from Carmona and Carrasco and Masterson do what they did in the 2nd half then you have no idea where you might be in the division. If they don't or if they falter then you have plenty of time to bring in kids to look at. This isn't really a difficult and complex issue. A million different things could happen.

Play to win til you know it's futile and then see what you have for the future. People act like if Durbin starts the year here then that means there's no possible way for the other guys to get a look.

If that's the case then tell me how all the pitchers I mentioned above ever got a chance.

Please? I'd like to hear how all those guys were squeezed out by veterans or how their development was hindered by not making the team out of spring training. And I'll get nothing from those bitching because those players either obviously got their chance during the season OR they made the team out of spring training.

Making the argument is just ridiculous when you look at the roster. But if there's nothing to be miserable about some people ain't happy. ;-) ;) :wink:


Making a ridiculous argument looking at this roster is the one that uses being alive in July.

You going over to the Hafner is going back to King Kong mode this year too?


I have zero idea what you're saying or asking in the first sentence.

And no, Hafner is washed out. I have no idea how one can't differentiate and use their head in separating people, positions and situations.

But keep going, by all means.

ANd then let me know which of the young pitchers currently on the roster never got their chance to make this roster.

Okay? Thanks.


You say Durbin is worth it because if Fausto is awesome and Masterson can get LH hitters and yada yada then the Tribe could be alive in the division.

I say Durbin can be Mo Rivera and this team ain't winning 80 games. So why waste time in another year that should be all evaluating each and every kid they can? And Durbin eliminates one of those opportunities.

Will there be more opportunities? Of course there will. Still no point in handing a spot to a guy like Durbin, IMO.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:28 pm

pup wrote:You say Durbin is worth it because if Fausto is awesome and Masterson can get LH hitters and yada yada then the Tribe could be alive in the division.

I say Durbin can be Mo Rivera and this team ain't winning 80 games. So why waste time in another year that should be all evaluating each and every kid they can? And Durbin eliminates one of those opportunities.

Will there be more opportunities? Of course there will. Still no point in handing a spot to a guy like Durbin, IMO.



I don't know if Durbin is worth it. As Pauly C noted (and he's far more familiar with the numbers than I am) Durbin pitched very effectively while with the Phillies.

What I do know is there a roster full of young pitchers who have been given a chance when a chance was in order. There are plenty of things to complain about with the Indians but their handling of younger pitchers and pitching prospects in general aren't one of them in my opinion. A kid has to be ready in many ways. Bettter to limit the number of trips down I71 once they do get promoted.

And again, in all likelihood you're correct that this team won't win 80 games (I think that's a slightly optimistic number) but you just don't know. If they're dead in the water by June 1 then proceed as you desire. That's more than enough time to evaluate guys at the ML level if that's the route you take.

:cheers:

I'd rather see guys go down and earn that shot when an opportunity presents itself as opposed to be handed something. You're not just trying to win games. You're trying to bring guys up the right way as well.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby redneckofsc » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Maybe we should try to talk Rudy Seanz and Paul Assenmacher out of retirement...they had some pretty good years.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:07 pm

I'm not slitting my wrists over this signing, but here's the anti-Durbin argument from my perspective.

At Columbus last year Josh Judy was 3-0, 2.68 ERA with 55 K's in 47 innings. He looks ready for a shot at the bigs to me.

Also at Columbus, Vinnie Pestano had a 1.55 ERA with 59 K's in 46 innings. He looked pretty good in his call-up to Cleveland, too.

So why are we paying Durbin $800K plus incentives when we're strapped for cash and won't be contending? By the way, that 3.63 ERA and 1.37 WHIP Durbin put up as a reliever was in the N.L. What do those numbers correspond to in the DH league?

Lefties hit .324/.936 against Durbin last year. They lit up his ass. He was poison on right-handed hitters, though, posting a .195/.604. IOW, he's Joe Smith. Don't we already have Joe Smith?

He's also Frank Herrman, only 7 years older and a lot more expensive. Lefties hit Herrman hard last year but he was at .241/.629 against righties, almost as good as Durbin. So if we're smart and only bring Durbin in against right-handed hitters, why not use Herrmann instead and save the money?

Did I mention Herrmann gave up one earned run in 28.2 innings in Columbus? Looks like he needs more seasoning in the minors to me.

So Judy or Pestano or Herrmann will get sent back to AAA so we can have Durbin instead. I don't see the point in that. But I'm one of those guys who wants to see the young blood get a shot, so long as they've earned it through their performance at AAA.

Possibly the Tribe wants to delay starting the clock on Judy and Pestano in order to control them for an extra year. And if Durbin has a great first half they might be able to get something for him. But not likely because you can't get anything for relief pitchers. The Tribe got prospects last year for Peralta, Kearns, and Westbrook. They got something for Pavano the year before. They got jack for Kerry Wood and they won't get jack for Durbin.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Bigfist » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:00 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I'm not slitting my wrists over this signing, but here's the anti-Durbin argument from my perspective.

At Columbus last year Josh Judy was 3-0, 2.68 ERA with 55 K's in 47 innings. He looks ready for a shot at the bigs to me.

Also at Columbus, Vinnie Pestano had a 1.55 ERA with 59 K's in 46 innings. He looked pretty good in his call-up to Cleveland, too.

So why are we paying Durbin $800K plus incentives when we're strapped for cash and won't be contending? By the way, that 3.63 ERA and 1.37 WHIP Durbin put up as a reliever was in the N.L. What do those numbers correspond to in the DH league?

Lefties hit .324/.936 against Durbin last year. They lit up his ass. He was poison on right-handed hitters, though, posting a .195/.604. IOW, he's Joe Smith. Don't we already have Joe Smith?

He's also Frank Herrman, only 7 years older and a lot more expensive. Lefties hit Herrman hard last year but he was at .241/.629 against righties, almost as good as Durbin. So if we're smart and only bring Durbin in against right-handed hitters, why not use Herrmann instead and save the money?

Did I mention Herrmann gave up one earned run in 28.2 innings in Columbus? Looks like he needs more seasoning in the minors to me.

So Judy or Pestano or Herrmann will get sent back to AAA so we can have Durbin instead. I don't see the point in that. But I'm one of those guys who wants to see the young blood get a shot, so long as they've earned it through their performance at AAA.

Possibly the Tribe wants to delay starting the clock on Judy and Pestano in order to control them for an extra year. And if Durbin has a great first half they might be able to get something for him. But not likely because you can't get anything for relief pitchers. The Tribe got prospects last year for Peralta, Kearns, and Westbrook. They got something for Pavano the year before. They got jack for Kerry Wood and they won't get jack for Durbin.


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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby MikeCheckGW » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:18 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I'm not slitting my wrists over this signing, but here's the anti-Durbin argument from my perspective.

At Columbus last year Josh Judy was 3-0, 2.68 ERA with 55 K's in 47 innings. He looks ready for a shot at the bigs to me.

Also at Columbus, Vinnie Pestano had a 1.55 ERA with 59 K's in 46 innings. He looked pretty good in his call-up to Cleveland, too.

So why are we paying Durbin $800K plus incentives when we're strapped for cash and won't be contending? By the way, that 3.63 ERA and 1.37 WHIP Durbin put up as a reliever was in the N.L. What do those numbers correspond to in the DH league?

Lefties hit .324/.936 against Durbin last year. They lit up his ass. He was poison on right-handed hitters, though, posting a .195/.604. IOW, he's Joe Smith. Don't we already have Joe Smith?

He's also Frank Herrman, only 7 years older and a lot more expensive. Lefties hit Herrman hard last year but he was at .241/.629 against righties, almost as good as Durbin. So if we're smart and only bring Durbin in against right-handed hitters, why not use Herrmann instead and save the money?

Did I mention Herrmann gave up one earned run in 28.2 innings in Columbus? Looks like he needs more seasoning in the minors to me.

So Judy or Pestano or Herrmann will get sent back to AAA so we can have Durbin instead. I don't see the point in that. But I'm one of those guys who wants to see the young blood get a shot, so long as they've earned it through their performance at AAA.

Possibly the Tribe wants to delay starting the clock on Judy and Pestano in order to control them for an extra year. And if Durbin has a great first half they might be able to get something for him. But not likely because you can't get anything for relief pitchers. The Tribe got prospects last year for Peralta, Kearns, and Westbrook. They got something for Pavano the year before. They got jack for Kerry Wood and they won't get jack for Durbin.



The Tribe received a big power arm for Raffy Betancourt in Connor Graham. Not saying they received a "top prospect" but they did get a kid who projects as a middle rotation/back end of the bullpen arm. So you can get "something" for a veteran reliever.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:51 pm

Stop. Please stop.

People acting like they're keeping Stephen Strasburg down while signing Durbin. Herrmann's 27 in two months, Pestano is 26 and Judy is 25. These guys have been around for years and they haven't been able to crack a roster that's always in need of pitching and an organization that has shown nothing but love for young guys like Carrasco, Perez, Gomez, Laffey, Lewis, Masterson, Todd, Carmona, etc., etc. in terms of giving them opportunities.

Laffey, Lewis and Sowers were 23 or younger when brought up. Fausto was 22, Raffy Left was 24.

Maybe the Tragic Trio just isn't that strong? Maybe, as their ages and pedigrees suggest, they're 4A pitchers and the organization that brought up all those young pitchers and is always in desperate need of pitching knows that?

This argument is ridiculous and baseless.

They're in the race until they play their way out of it. Then you guys can dance and jump for "young" guys. There's plenty of time for that experimentation and for all these terrific 'kids' to get their crack.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:13 pm

Personally, I was slightly against the signing until I realized that now there is somebody on the Indians I can call Chaz. That's a win. For me, at least.

Let the Chaz Durvlin era begin!
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby swerb » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:16 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Personally, I was slightly against the signing until I realized that now there is somebody on the Indians I can call Chaz. That's a win. For me, at least.

Let the Chaz Durvlin era begin!

I like the ring of "The Durbinator" personally.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:24 pm

swerb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Personally, I was slightly against the signing until I realized that now there is somebody on the Indians I can call Chaz. That's a win. For me, at least.

Let the Chaz Durvlin era begin!

I like the ring of "The Durbinator" personally.


I'd, uh, call him the Masdurbator?
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:34 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Maybe the Tragic Trio just isn't that strong? Maybe, as their ages and pedigrees suggest, they're 4A pitchers and the organization that brought up all those young pitchers and is always in desperate need of pitching knows that?


That very well could be true. But some players develop faster than others as the recent Casey Blake discussion pointed out. If a guy is excelling at AAA, whether he's 22 or 26, it's time to give him a shot. Unless the plan is to contend this year and you want some vets with playoff/WS experience like Durbin. I don't think that's the plan, so why not save the money and give a shot to a younger and cheaper player who has earned it?

I can understand not bringing up a Chisenhall, who is 22 and has never played above AA. By all means, start him in AAA this year and play it by ear. But guys like Judy, Herrmann, and Pestano have earned a shot. The only conclusion I can come to is that management thinks at least one of them isn't quite there and need to be finished off.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:41 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The only conclusion I can come to is that management thinks at least one of them isn't quite there and need to be finished off.


Maybe management figures that Chaz Durbin is better than the three middle aged 4a guys and that a team that has as much experience as the Indians do in evaluating and promoting young pitching talent knows more about it than we do.

And because that 7th and 8th inning bridge to Perez ain't where they want to throw these future Koufaxes right away.

I'm just guessing with that.

Maybe collectively we do know more than they do. If we do it's mostly because of motherscratcher.

Organizational filler Pros. Placeholders at AAA between the guys before them and the guys after them.

People get bent over the most ridiculous shit. Then they create justification for it.

Again, I'm pretty comfortable with their history of promoting young pitchers.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby CURS1004 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:21 pm

Just a dry run
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby cozmeesah » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:30 pm

^^^^ We are.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:32 pm

What the...I don't even...
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:42 pm

CURS1004 wrote:What a friggin rant Peeker or peeked at? you obviously have way to much time on your hands because your post are pure shit without research. Maybe the kids in question either played through thier senior year in college or were drafted after thier junior season? Maybe one of them had TJ Surgery and didn't pitch for 13 months after getting drafted or and in fact has only 2 1/2 seasons so far, maybe one of them graduated from Harvard before starting his second career. Where the hell did you get your stats they have been here for years bullshit. These kids have earned the trip, Hermann, Pestano and Judy will simply have you sucking your thumb over the next couple of Months whether it be in Columbus or Cleveland while they continue to blow away the competition put in front of them season after season. Morons with a platform to spew vinum continue to make an ass of themselves, Dubin is welcome but sitting on his past performances without making a statement early will simply get him passed up by these kids in Columbus and be on his way to his fourth team. Good luck to Chad his performance will only help the kids behind him work harder or allow them to get there chance to shine at the Major League stage. I bet you get invited to a bunch of parties? the ones that sit in a round rubber room and raise thier hands to speak? so having access to this board must be :nanner: :gah: :woot: :bag: :fu:

Sorry moderaters, but be glad I only post once a year


CDT- You dumb German bastard. You didn't have to create a new username and misspell every third word to try and hide yourself.

Or is it FUDU?

TonyIPI?

'Spew vinum'?

You clever, cheeky bastard, whoever you are.

Do the Indians get extra credit or have to record fewer outs if a pitcher they run out there graduated college, graduated from a good college or was hurt?

I need a ruling.

What about a guy who initially went to college, left to join the army when it was just a two year gig, got his college paid for and went onto Law School at a really fine midwestern university, was named editor of the law review and THEN pursued his dream of pitching at the major league level. You know who that was Curs1004?

My college roommate Mitch Cumstein. He never made it either.

Curs1004? Sounds like a shitty heavy metal station.

Swerb!!! I brought in another poster!!! I think it might be dnosco. Check the IP address please.
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Re: Chad Durbin?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:17 am

CURS1004 wrote:Just a dry run



Oh..see? Now you just look like a gutless douchebag.

Before you had a certain...ummm... I don't know what but let's define it as je ne sais quoi. ;-) ;) :wink: :lmfao:

Thankfully you can still see your balls in the quoted post. :thumb up:
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