Vikings Gettin' Thumped by Milwaukee

[peeker643]

56-42 with 13 minutes left in the 2nd half.

Better make a run tonight fellas or it's big trouble after a brilliant start.

[peeker643]

69-59 w/6minutes remaining.

[peeker643]

71-65 Milwaukee at the under 4:00 timeout.

Sneaking back after being down 19 at the 11-minute mark.

[Rat_Tail]

Still alive...

but still not getting rebounds.

[Rat_Tail]

Live stream btw

http://www.horizonleague.org/live/1994

[peeker643]

Fuck.

You can't get down 19 on your home court to a decent team and hope to come back.

They spit the bit again tonight.

[neoleo]

Very disappointing to say the least.

Any team with a good big man has given us fits all year (see losses to West Virginia, Valparaiso, Butler, Detroit and Old Dominion as evidence).

Once Pogue got in foul trouble early, we were in trouble because Hill is probably the best low post scorer in the league.

It was the exact opposite in Milwaukee, Hill went out early with fouls and was a non factor and we ran them off the floor.

Only hope now for CSU is a miracle. We need Valpo and Butler to lose just to try to get the two seed. Valpo is down 10 as I type this to Loyola with 3 minutes left. The way this night went, I'm sure they'll go on an 11-0 run to pull it out.

We still have an even more outside shot at the No.1 as well. We need to win Sat, Milwaukee needs to lose to Youngstown, Valpo needs to lose tonight or Sat and Butler needs to lose Sat to Loyola.

[neoleo]

Very disappointing to say the least.

Any team with a good big man has given us fits all year (see losses to West Virginia, Valparaiso, Butler, Detroit and Old Dominion as evidence).

Once Pogue got in foul trouble early, we were in trouble because Hill is probably the best low post scorer in the league.

It was the exact opposite in Milwaukee, Hill went out early with fouls and was a non factor and we ran them off the floor.

Only hope now for CSU is a miracle. We need Valpo and Butler to lose just to try to get the two seed. Valpo is down 10 as I type this to Loyola with 3 minutes left. The way this night went, I'm sure they'll go on an 11-0 run to pull it out.

We still have an even more outside shot at the No.1 as well. We need to win Sat, Milwaukee needs to lose to Youngstown, Valpo needs to lose tonight or Sat and Butler needs to lose Sat to Loyola.

Oh, and we can get the No.2 seed with a win and Valpo/Milwaukee losses as well, but that puts the tourney at Butler.

[peeker643]

Very disappointing to say the least.

Any team with a good big man has given us fits all year (see losses to West Virginia, Valparaiso, Butler, Detroit and Old Dominion as evidence).

Once Pogue got in foul trouble early, we were in trouble because Hill is probably the best low post scorer in the league.

It was the exact opposite in Milwaukee, Hill went out early with fouls and was a non factor and we ran them off the floor.

Only hope now for CSU is a miracle. We need Valpo and Butler to lose just to try to get the two seed. Valpo is down 10 as I type this to Loyola with 3 minutes left. The way this night went, I'm sure they'll go on an 11-0 run to pull it out.

We still have an even more outside shot at the No.1 as well. We need to win Sat, Milwaukee needs to lose to Youngstown, Valpo needs to lose tonight or Sat and Butler needs to lose Sat to Loyola.

Dude, I believe you, me and three guys we find in the parking lot might beat YSU. I know you're stating facts but that was a major buzz kill.

You're right about the size though. Even with Pogue they're overmatched at times. Biggest problem that program is ever going to face.

2nd biggest this year. If they have to play more games than the 1 and 2 seed would play that five man club is gonna get gassed.

And Loyola was down 14 with a minute left.

There's a gleam

[neoleo]

Dude, I believe you, me and three guys we find in the parking lot might beat YSU. I know you're stating facts but that was a major buzz kill.

You're right about the size though. Even with Pogue they're overmatched at times. Biggest problem that program is ever going to face.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't believe it's going to happen, I'm just trying to talk myself off the ledge tonight.

Waters has repeatedly said he's still looking for a big man in this year's class, even though he already has five guys signed with only one scholarship to give (Norris Cole). Two of the guys already signed are big men, but one is thought of as a project, and the other (Anton Grady from Cleveland CC) is more of a perimeter 4.

Basically, a few guys from this team won't be back next year, and if he can find another big, he'll make room for him.

The depth got killed last year when he signed two JUCO bigs and they both sucked and left after one year. Those guys should be producing as seniors this year.

That's what makes Kent so good, they're always able to pick up JUCO guys and fill in the gaps.

[Kingpin74]

Just got home, brutal Murphy's Law type of game. Proves that when things are going badly, there's a big difference between keeping the deficit at 12-13 and letting it snowball to 19 or 20. The officiating and some of the bounces didn't help but that's never an excuse. It's a semi-disaster to lose both home court and the bye like this but the Valpo loss actually helped a lot. Now instead of having to beat Wright State at Milwaukee, Milwaukee at Milwaukee, then also going to either Butler or Valpo for the championship, we would now get Detroit and Butler on a neutral court then either Milwaukee on the road or Valpo at home for the championship.

And full disclosure: I went to Michigan, I sincerely apologize for infecting Cleveland State sports with my school's rotten luck/ineptitude lately. I was also at the Michigan-Wisconsin BS buzzer bank shot game in Ann Arbor last night so the state of Wisconsin got me twice in 24 hours, good times.

[neoleo]

Valpo losing was big but we will need an even bigger upset Saturday to get the No.2 seed, either YSU over Milwaukee or Loyola over Butler.

Plus we have to win.

I just don't think this team has it in them to win 4 games in a week. We desperately need a top 2 seed to have a chance.

[Kingpin74]

Butler losing would be great but they play UIC at home, that's not gonna happen. But assuming Butler wins, I honestly think I would rather have Milwaukee win as well. I think avoiding Hinkle Fieldhouse would trump having to play two more games. Plus, the first one would be on a Tuesday, the second on a Friday, the third on Saturday, and the championship the next Tuesday. There's enough of a break to throw out the first one and last one. It's just one back to back. Not optimal but certainly manageable.

[neoleo]

Butler losing would be great but they play UIC at home, that's not gonna happen. But assuming Butler wins, I honestly think I would rather have Milwaukee win as well. I think avoiding Hinkle Fieldhouse would trump having to play two more games. Plus, the first one would be on a Tuesday, the second on a Friday, the third on Saturday, and the championship the next Tuesday. There's enough of a break to throw out the first one and last one. It's just one back to back. Not optimal but certainly manageable.

Butler plays Loyola on Saturday. The same Loyola team that just beat Valpo by 20.

And at all costs, I'd take the 2 seed over playing four games, especially with this thin of a rotation.

If Milwaukee loses and we're the two seed, we wouldn't match up with Butler until the final. I'd rather take my chances with them on their home court on two days rest after having a week off than the alternative.

If Milwaukee wins and we're the three seed, than we'd face Butler in the semi-finals at Milwaukee on the second night of a back-to-back having already played a game three days before that, all the while they were resting. And that's if we even make it to the semi-finals in that scenario.

Always, always, root for the top 2 seeds.

[peeker643]

Valpo losing was big but we will need an even bigger upset Saturday to get the No.2 seed, either YSU over Milwaukee or Loyola over Butler.

Plus we have to win.

I just don't think this team has it in them to win 4 games in a week. We desperately need a top 2 seed to have a chance.

Telling ya man, this team isn't set up for a long conference tourney run. They're just too thin with 5 or 6 guys.

Maybe Cole gets hot again and Harmon hits some shots to take the pressure off but I'm not sure they can win this from the field. Those guys went for almost 50 tonight at home and couldn't get the W.

[neoleo]

Valpo losing was big but we will need an even bigger upset Saturday to get the No.2 seed, either YSU over Milwaukee or Loyola over Butler.

Plus we have to win.

I just don't think this team has it in them to win 4 games in a week. We desperately need a top 2 seed to have a chance.

Telling ya man, this team isn't set up for a long conference tourney run. They're just too thin with 5 or 6 guys.

Maybe Cole gets hot again and Harmon hits some shots to take the pressure off but I'm not sure they can win this from the field.

Agreed. Our only chance is as a top 2 seed where we only have to play 2 games in 4 days. And even then I don't like our chances on the road. That's why today was so big.

Back onto the ledge.

[peeker643]

Back onto the ledge.

Nah. It's sports my man. Stupid, inexplicable shit happens every day.

If they get something from Cole and Harmon and Montgomery gives them a bit anything can happen. Keep the faith.

[neoleo]

Back onto the ledge.

Nah. It's sports my man. Stupid, inexplicable shit happens every day.

If they get something from Cole and Harmon and Montgomery gives them a bit anything can happen. Keep the faith.

I don't know what it is about this team that gets me so worked up. I'm immune to the rest of my teams sucking so much that it doesn't even effect my day anymore.

If Harmon and Montgomery were on today, we win this game. Those two, and Kamczyk, missed countless wide open threes all game long.

So yeah, trying to keep the faith, and I'll be there again Saturday, but I know that the chances are slim if we don't get some help from YSU and/or Loyola.

[peeker643]

Back onto the ledge.

Nah. It's sports my man. Stupid, inexplicable shit happens every day.

If they get something from Cole and Harmon and Montgomery gives them a bit anything can happen. Keep the faith.

I don't know what it is about this team that gets me so worked up. I'm immune to the rest of my teams sucking so much that it doesn't even effect my day anymore.

If Harmon and Montgomery were on today, we win this game. Those two, and Kamczyk, missed countless wide open threes all game long.

So yeah, trying to keep the faith, and I'll be there again Saturday, but I know that the chances are slim if we don't get some help from YSU and/or Loyola.

Gotta be careful there. Harmon and Cole were 1-13 from 3-pt land. And it was actually Harmon that hit the one. I think Cole was 40% on the night and he shot at least 20 times.

The defense is what kills me. That's Waters' stand by. This team just doesn't have enough ass in the pants to play it like Waters would like.

[Kingpin74]

Butler plays Loyola on Saturday. The same Loyola team that just beat Valpo by 20.

And at all costs, I'd take the 2 seed over playing four games, especially with this thin of a rotation.

If Milwaukee loses and we're the two seed, we wouldn't match up with Butler until the final. I'd rather take my chances with them on their home court on two days rest after having a week off than the alternative.

If Milwaukee wins and we're the three seed, than we'd face Butler in the semi-finals at Milwaukee on the second night of a back-to-back having already played a game three days before that, all the while they were resting. And that's if we even make it to the semi-finals in that scenario.

Always, always, root for the top 2 seeds.

Interesting, Butler could actually lose that one. Pawlowski said UIC on the postgame show for some reason. And YSU beat Butler at home, no reason they couldn't get Milwaukee too. You guys do have a point about the schedule given their thin rotation, I just thought Hinkle would be a hornet's nest in the tournament. It didn't matter in '09 I guess (with a much better Butler team).

It's a real shame they don't have a reliable wing player to can three pointers the whole game. Kamczyc is what he is and plays hard but he should be having target practice with how many people crash on Cole's drives. There must have been 6-7 possessions tonight where he either missed or passed out of a wide open 3. And Peeker's absolutely right about defense, the effort is there but they just got pushed around too much down low during the comeback effort.

[neoleo]

Gotta be careful there. Harmon and Cole were 1-13 from 3-pt land. And it was actually Harmon that hit the one. I think Cole was 40% on the night and he shot at least 20 times.

The defense is what kills me. That's Waters' stand by. This team just doesn't have enough ass in the pants to play it like Waters would like.

I guess I remembered Montgomery missing more than he did. He was only 0-1 from deep but it was a wide open, uncontested three when we were making a run and down only 6. Harmon 1-7 from three and 5-6 of those were wide open and Kamcyzk was 1-4 from three on all wide open shots.

Cole had his worst shooting day of the year and still finished with 27 points. I don't remember any of Cole's shots being uncontested, except for the layup that he blew in the first half (and that was huge, obviously). He was double teamed and harassed all night and still found a way to put up 27 and find his teammates for wide open jumpers. They just missed them all.

Harmon decided to attack in the second half and he was instrumental in the comeback. They all need to learn to do that sooner next time when the shots aren't falling.

And I agree on the defense. Cole and Harmon are great defenders, but the post defense on this team is bad. Partly because of size, partly because of depth, and mostly because Pogue doesn't know how to play without committing a foul. He either lets the guy score while not trying to foul, or he fouls out and our backups can't do the job.