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Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

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Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby swerb » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:48 am

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:40 pm

swerb wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_2.html


SD:

Green bay handles it the same way .

Its the way all the old god ones did it , including Walsh on calling his own plays IIRC before he stepped back
and delegated more.

He might be taking on too much , but OTOH it might be his way of keeping his thumb on the teams pulse and not losing himself in the job as too many coordinators have done struggling to make the transition to the HMIC.

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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:22 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
swerb wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_2.html


SD:

Green bay handles it the same way .

Its the way all the old god ones did it , including Walsh on calling his own plays IIRC before he stepped back
and delegated more.

SoulDawg


Not exactly. GB had an OC - McCarthy called the plays. I don't really care about game day - anyone has got to be better than Daboll.

I am more concerened about Mon-Sat and does Shurmur have enough time to watch all the film and put in the complete game plan and sort out all of the personnel packages and all of the other things an OC would normally do?

You want him to keep his finger on the teams' pulse? The only pulse he'll have time for is the O. Again, not really a big deal as Jauron has HC experience and will handle the D 100%. Hopefully ST doesn't fall through the cracks, but EOD we're gonna suck hard anyway, so might as well suck while giving Shurmur a trial by fire.

Peeks is surprised I am not blowing a gasket, :hide: but I really don't see this a big deal.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:29 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
swerb wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_2.html


SD:

Green bay handles it the same way .

Its the way all the old god ones did it , including Walsh on calling his own plays IIRC before he stepped back
and delegated more.

SoulDawg


Not exactly. GB had an OC - McCarthy called the plays. I don't really care about game day - anyone has got to be better than Daboll.

I am more concerened about Mon-Sat and does Shurmur have enough time to watch all the film and put in the complete game plan and sort out all of the personnel packages and all of the other things an OC would normally do?

You want him to keep his finger on the teams' pulse? The only pulse he'll have time for is the O. Again, not really a big deal as Jauron has HC experience and will handle the D 100%. Hopefully ST doesn't fall through the cracks, but EOD we're gonna suck hard anyway, so might as well suck while giving Shurmur a trial by fire.

Peeks is surprised I am not blowing a gasket, :hide: but I really don't see this a big deal.


I'm not surprised. What you say makes sense to me.

We're past the hiring process now so pretty much back on common ground. ;-) ;) :wink: :salute:
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:57 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Its the way all the old god ones did it ,



Actually, QB's called the plays. maybe we should try that, too?

This decision makes zero sense. None. Nada. It is as laughable as it sounds; a 1st time HC trying to be his own OC on a horrible team. And everyone will be screaming for an OC by game 3 next season and wondering why an organization "led" by Mike Holmgren can't attract a qualified OC .

Not me. I'm scoffing now, and not caring now and later. This really doesn't matter, except if you beleiev in the whole "gotta establish a winning culture" thing.

This probably means 2 wins and not 3. So we're in Luck ole Patches doesn't understand the job yet.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby hiko » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:05 pm

jb wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Its the way all the old god ones did it ,



Actually, QB's called the plays. maybe we should try that, too?

This decision makes zero sense. None. Nada. It is as laughable as it sounds; a 1st time HC trying to be his own OC on a horrible team. And everyone will be screaming for an OC by game 3 next season and wondering why an organization "led" by Mike Holmgren can't attract a qualified OC .

Not me. I'm scoffing now, and not caring now and later. This really doesn't matter, except if you beleiev in the whole "gotta establish a winning culture" thing.

This probably means 2 wins and not 3. So we're in Luck ole Patches doesn't understand the job yet.

It means nothing since Shurmur was going to call plays anyway.

People may indeed be screaming though - that seems to be the nature of today's Cleveland fan.

I, for one, can't get enough of it. :dead:
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:07 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
swerb wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_2.html


SD:

Green bay handles it the same way .

Its the way all the old god ones did it , including Walsh on calling his own plays IIRC before he stepped back
and delegated more.

SoulDawg


Not exactly. GB had an OC - McCarthy called the plays.



Right. they have had the same OC for FOUR years. Then again, you don't go to SD for factual content. Like going to Quaker Steak for low fat / low cal dining.

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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:09 pm

hiko wrote:
jb wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Its the way all the old god ones did it ,



Actually, QB's called the plays. maybe we should try that, too?

This decision makes zero sense. None. Nada. It is as laughable as it sounds; a 1st time HC trying to be his own OC on a horrible team. And everyone will be screaming for an OC by game 3 next season and wondering why an organization "led" by Mike Holmgren can't attract a qualified OC .

Not me. I'm scoffing now, and not caring now and later. This really doesn't matter, except if you beleiev in the whole "gotta establish a winning culture" thing.

This probably means 2 wins and not 3. So we're in Luck ole Patches doesn't understand the job yet.

It means nothing since Shurmur was going to call plays anyway.

People may indeed be screaming though - that seems to be the nature of today's Cleveland fan.



It'd be the same in Philly or Dallas or New York or KC.

The issue isn't the play calling, Hiko. Plamer tried the same thing. Got rolled.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby hiko » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:13 pm

jb wrote:
hiko wrote:
jb wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Its the way all the old god ones did it ,



Actually, QB's called the plays. maybe we should try that, too?

This decision makes zero sense. None. Nada. It is as laughable as it sounds; a 1st time HC trying to be his own OC on a horrible team. And everyone will be screaming for an OC by game 3 next season and wondering why an organization "led" by Mike Holmgren can't attract a qualified OC .

Not me. I'm scoffing now, and not caring now and later. This really doesn't matter, except if you beleiev in the whole "gotta establish a winning culture" thing.

This probably means 2 wins and not 3. So we're in Luck ole Patches doesn't understand the job yet.

It means nothing since Shurmur was going to call plays anyway.

People may indeed be screaming though - that seems to be the nature of today's Cleveland fan.



It'd be the same in Philly or Dallas or New York or KC.


I tend to find Cleveland fans more paranoid than the average due to all the losing, but you're probably right. Let me amend - That seems to be the nature of today's sports fan.

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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:16 pm

Maybe I should be asking this question: why WOULDN'T you want to hire an OC ?

What is patches gaining?
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby hiko » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:57 pm

jb wrote:Maybe I should be asking this question: why WOULDN'T you want to hire an OC ?

What is patches gaining?


Eternal consciousness?

Don't think he's gaining anything. Not sure he's losing anything either. Paddy IS the OC. Color me nonplussed.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:33 pm

hiko wrote:
jb wrote:Maybe I should be asking this question: why WOULDN'T you want to hire an OC ?

What is patches gaining?


Eternal consciousness?

Don't think he's gaining anything. Not sure he's losing anything either. Paddy IS the OC. Color me nonplussed.


So he's got THAT going for him, which is nice.

It's too much to take on, Hiko. That's why it's two jobs. Being a 1st time HC is a big enough step. Taking on two of the most complex jobs in the org is not a good thing. At least that's what I was told when the borderline HOF HC in the org passed on the job cause it was too much work to be figurehead as well.

:hide:

I see a whole lotta downside to being potentially overwehlmed. I see no upside.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby hiko » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:41 pm

jb wrote:
hiko wrote:
jb wrote:Maybe I should be asking this question: why WOULDN'T you want to hire an OC ?

What is patches gaining?


Eternal consciousness?

Don't think he's gaining anything. Not sure he's losing anything either. Paddy IS the OC. Color me nonplussed.


So he's got THAT going for him, which is nice.

It's too much to take on, Hiko. That's why it's two jobs. Being a 1st time HC is a big enough step. Taking on two of the most complex jobs in the org is not a good thing. At least that's what I was told when the borderline HOF HC in the org passed on the job cause it was too much work to be figurehead as well.

:hide:

I see a whole lotta downside to being potentially overwehlmed. I see no upside.


Not sure I can see an upside, necessarily. But I don't really think he'll be overwhelmed either. I just consider Shurmur the Head Coach of the Offense. Sure, he might technically have "final say", but he's gonna leave the D to Jauron. So his job here won't be that much more complex then a glorified OC - at least for now. He'd better grow into a true Head Coach at some point, but, for now, looks like baby steps for Paddy McGee.

This sure ain't the Standard Operating Procedure when it comes to way things are traditionally done, but it's not like things were working for us any other way and I don't give a fuck cuz they'll probably suck no matter what they do. :woot:

OC, no OC... this team is gonna be TERRIBLE in 2011 if there's a long lockout.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:49 pm

Good to see you embracing the dark side and seeing the dots connect. ;-)

Yeah, nada to talk about, so it is prolly a bigger deal than if FA were coming up. I just don't see how this team could possibly need any more challenges, that's all. If it were a non-issue, 31 other teams wouldn't have OC's either. Even Todd Haley named an OC . I openly wonder if being a HC for the first time in year one of a losing culture is a bigger task than Pcthes thinks. Unless he's just going to throw wrenches at the WR's.

Concur this means jaraun is a one man gang on the other side of the ball.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:27 pm

jb wrote:Good to see you embracing the dark side and seeing the dots connect. ;-)

Yeah, nada to talk about, so it is prolly a bigger deal than if FA were coming up. I just don't see how this team could possibly need any more challenges, that's all. If it were a non-issue, 31 other teams wouldn't have OC's either. Even Todd Haley named an OC . I openly wonder if being a HC for the first time in year one of a losing culture is a bigger task than Pcthes thinks. Unless he's just going to throw wrenches at the WR's.

Concur this means jaraun is a one man gang on the other side of the ball.


SD:

Unofficially the other coaches are going to be doing the scouting work an OC uses to prepare his game plan .

Shurmur is on new ground as a HC , to your point , it may overwhelm him , to my point , Calling his own plays gives him a confort level while he gets his sea legs .

it gives him a frame of reference , in a box with no dimensions .

Instead of everything being new , he has one thing he can build his base on.


Doesn't mean you ain't right , but that was the point I was trying to articulate.


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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby smalls1129 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:55 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
jb wrote:Good to see you embracing the dark side and seeing the dots connect. ;-)

Yeah, nada to talk about, so it is prolly a bigger deal than if FA were coming up. I just don't see how this team could possibly need any more challenges, that's all. If it were a non-issue, 31 other teams wouldn't have OC's either. Even Todd Haley named an OC . I openly wonder if being a HC for the first time in year one of a losing culture is a bigger task than Pcthes thinks. Unless he's just going to throw wrenches at the WR's.

Concur this means jaraun is a one man gang on the other side of the ball.


SD:

Unofficially the other coaches are going to be doing the scouting work an OC uses to prepare his game plan .

Shurmur is on new ground as a HC , to your point , it may overwhelm him , to my point , Calling his own plays gives him a confort level while he gets his sea legs .

it gives him a frame of reference , in a box with no dimensions .

Instead of everything being new , he has one thing he can build his base on.


Doesn't mean you ain't right , but that was the point I was trying to articulate.


SoulDawg



SD, I don't jump into the heated arguments very often but read often, so don't think I'm cherry picking. But are you feeling alright, this may have been the most even tempered post I have ever seen from you, let alone a post where you're somewhat conceding a point.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:31 pm

2 serious questions

Does Norv Turner call his own plays?

...and does Shumur have a gof-er to help him with the OC job?
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby pup » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:41 pm

Sounds like we should have kept Mangini and hired Shurmur to be the OC.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mistero » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:51 pm

Ray Rhodes hired as defensive advisor to Dick Jauron...discuss.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mistero » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:54 pm

"Former Eagles and Packers head coach Ray Rhodes will continue his 30-year coaching career in Cleveland.

The Browns announced a slew of coaching hires, including Rhodes as a senior assistant/defense. He served in similar capacity in Houston over the last three years.

Cleveland also announced they retained the following coaches from Eric Mangini’s staff: Gary Brown (running backs), Steve Hagen (tight ends), Jerome Henderson (defensive backs), Kent Johnston (strength and conditioning), Rick Lyle (assistant strength and conditioning), Luke Steckel (assistant to the head coach) and George Warhop (offensive line).

In addition to Rhodes, the team also added Chris Beake (offensive assistant), Chuck Bullough (defensive assistant), and Shawn Mennenga (special teams assistant). Keith Gilbertson will also be a senior offensive assistant after serving as the Browns’ Director of Pro Personnel.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:05 pm

mistero wrote:"Former Eagles and Packers head coach Ray Rhodes will continue his 30-year coaching career in Cleveland.

The Browns announced a slew of coaching hires, including Rhodes as a senior assistant/defense. He served in similar capacity in Houston over the last three years.

Cleveland also announced they retained the following coaches from Eric Mangini’s staff: Gary Brown (running backs), Steve Hagen (tight ends), Jerome Henderson (defensive backs), Kent Johnston (strength and conditioning), Rick Lyle (assistant strength and conditioning), Luke Steckel (assistant to the head coach) and George Warhop (offensive line).

In addition to Rhodes, the team also added Chris Beake (offensive assistant), Chuck Bullough (defensive assistant), and Shawn Mennenga (special teams assistant). Keith Gilbertson will also be a senior offensive assistant after serving as the Browns’ Director of Pro Personnel.


SD:

The Man of Note is Rhodes.

former head coach himself at Green Bay no less, and ran some exotic aggressive units at every stop.

wanted him as DC here but thought he was too old and in poor health.

Hope there's something left in the tank.


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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mistero » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:07 pm

Of course there's something left in the tank. Now all we need to do is talk Jayme Mitchell back into the fold.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:30 pm

mistero wrote:Of course there's something left in the tank. Now all we need to do is talk Jayme Mitchell back into the fold.


He is our best pass rusher
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:17 am

Really trying hard to stay objective. Positive. Upbeat. Trying not to be "one of those guys"

But Ray Rhodes? Really? From the 2008-2010 Houston Texans defense which struck fear into the hearts of all that faced them? While ranking last in the league in almost every category? The guy who RETIRED last month due to health problems?

I guess there's two ways to look at this
1. H&H know Ray Rhodes, respect him, think he's a good guy and an asset to the staff
2. This entire team has completely lost it's fucking mind, and what we're seeing is nothing more than The Walrus Old Timers Club with H&H spending Lerner's money on cronies

I'll stay positive and go all in on number 1. Only because 2 is so absurd I can't really fathom it
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:16 am

Some good hires rounding out the D side of the ball:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... _thei.html

A staff with Jaraun & Ray Rhodes? Plus a Bullaugh?

I thought Patches was really joking when he quipped "there's a defense?" but that might not be the case. The good news is that if he's going it on his own on the other side of the ball the D should have MORE than enough know-how and been-there, done-that so the store should be minded.

Huge contasts between the O staff and the D staff, IMO. Loads of vets and experience on D , wet behind the ears on O.

Interesting.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:23 am

mistero wrote:"Former Eagles and Packers head coach Ray Rhodes will continue his 30-year coaching career in Cleveland.

The Browns announced a slew of coaching hires, including Rhodes as a senior assistant/defense. He served in similar capacity in Houston over the last three years.

Cleveland also announced they retained the following coaches from Eric Mangini’s staff: Gary Brown (running backs), Steve Hagen (tight ends), Jerome Henderson (defensive backs), Kent Johnston (strength and conditioning), Rick Lyle (assistant strength and conditioning), Luke Steckel (assistant to the head coach) and George Warhop (offensive line).

In addition to Rhodes, the team also added Chris Beake (offensive assistant), Chuck Bullough (defensive assistant), and Shawn Mennenga (special teams assistant). Keith Gilbertson will also be a senior offensive assistant after serving as the Browns’ Director of Pro Personnel.



Man, is it just me, or is that ALOT of hold over from a guy who got canned? I say to my self, "self, why?". Is this a good thing as the position coaches will have rapport with the players already? A little continuity to teach what the new staff wants taught technique-wise from guys who already know what the players do and don't do well?? Is it a sign that patches isn't a dick and can work with who was there? Or is it that this is so FUBAR they can't hire anyone?

And here's some 411 on ur new O assistant:

http://www.allvoices.com/news/5399479-bellevue-hires-chris-beake-as-defensive-coordinator

I bet Nick Restifo would have taken the job if asked. :pop:
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:26 am

jb wrote:Some good hires rounding out the D side of the ball:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... _thei.html

A staff with Jaraun & Ray Rhodes? Plus a Bullaugh?

I thought Patches was really joking when he quipped "there's a defense?" but that might not be the case. The good news is that if he's going it on his own on the other side of the ball the D should have MORE than enough know-how and been-there, done-that so the store should be minded.

Huge contasts between the O staff and the D staff, IMO. Loads of vets and experience on D , wet behind the ears on O.

Interesting.


Maybe Gill Haskell plays more of a role on the O side? Clear that Holmgren and Shurmur will abdicate most if not all of the D to the senior guys.

Just don't see what Rhodes brings other than a trusted face. The guy is a walking time bomb health-wise. Bullough was drafted by the Eagles in '92 - so that explains that. :woot:
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:27 am

mattvan1 wrote:Really trying hard to stay objective. Positive. Upbeat. Trying not to be "one of those guys"

But Ray Rhodes? Really? From the 2008-2010 Houston Texans defense which struck fear into the hearts of all that faced them? While ranking last in the league in almost every category? The guy who RETIRED last month due to health problems?

I guess there's two ways to look at this
1. H&H know Ray Rhodes, respect him, think he's a good guy and an asset to the staff
2. This entire team has completely lost it's fucking mind, and what we're seeing is nothing more than The Walrus Old Timers Club with H&H spending Lerner's money on cronies

I'll stay positive and go all in on number 1. Only because 2 is so absurd I can't really fathom it


You should stay positive. Too much evidence that quality defensive coordinators Peter Principal all the time and drop back to become pretty darn good coordinators.

The SB featured two of them. I have respect for Rhodes. I just hope he's involved 60 hours a week and not another Gil Haskell. Quite frankly, his health is his problem.

The Bullaughs are the Ryans without the self-pomotion.
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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:53 am

mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:Some good hires rounding out the D side of the ball:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... _thei.html

A staff with Jaraun & Ray Rhodes? Plus a Bullaugh?

I thought Patches was really joking when he quipped "there's a defense?" but that might not be the case. The good news is that if he's going it on his own on the other side of the ball the D should have MORE than enough know-how and been-there, done-that so the store should be minded.

Huge contasts between the O staff and the D staff, IMO. Loads of vets and experience on D , wet behind the ears on O.

Interesting.


Maybe Gill Haskell plays more of a role on the O side? Clear that Holmgren and Shurmur will abdicate most if not all of the D to the senior guys.

Just don't see what Rhodes brings other than a trusted face. The guy is a walking time bomb health-wise. Bullough was drafted by the Eagles in '92 - so that explains that. :woot:


Just another set of experienced eyes that allow Shurmur to focus on other areas. They're clearly spoon feeding the dude so as not to overwhelm him and they're clearly to have him focus the vast majority of his time on the offense. With no formal OC he needs to be running that offense in drills and practices and has less 'walk around time' to oversee the defensive side.

If Patches doesn't wash out he'll hire an OC from the WC tree in a year or two, bring him up in his philosophy and then be free to spend more time with his DCs. Guys like Rhodes and Jauron will be far less necessary then but right now they know how to administrate and demonstrate and that's critically important.

Is what it is I guess. I do think you'll see big changes on the offensive side. Jauron/Rhodes are not here to turn this defense into the 85 Bears. They're hear to be their vanilla selves and make sure there's harmony as well as learning in Berea.

This is the temporary housing stage. As SD74 says, probably shoulda been done last year. But when the house burns down you need a place to stay while its being rebuilt.
Jauron and Rhodes are that place.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: Shurmur Confirms He'll Go Without an OC

Unread postby jb » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:13 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are u glossing them "The Double Wides" ?
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