Is this fun to follow?

[Orenthal]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multim ... ent.1.html

[peeker643]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1101/nba-longest-losing-streaks/content.1.html

Two games closer to glory if we could just count the last two games of last year.

But with 46 games left in the season and with 41 left after they cash in on this opportunity for infamy, I like their chances of getting another 20 game shit-fest in before the end of the year.

That's assuming the first streak actually ends (and ends before there are fewer than 20 games remaining).

I don't know who said there'd be nothing to look forward to this Cavs season.

[leadpipe]

By the end of the NBA season, this argument is going be be much sillier than it is now.

[FUDU]

Haven't read through this whole "argument" but from some surface points I'd say it is a bit much to say the Cavaliers are amongst the worst franchises ever, I think they are close though, and will be getting closer as the next few season unfold most likely.

40 year existence and 18 post season appearances? 22 seasons over 500? 12 going on 13 season under 400?

Part of their success and failure can be attributed to how the association is set up, let's face it there is not an easier sport to make the playoffs than the NBA, but you also pretty much need to be the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked to get the frozen envelope as well.

Until they are the worst franchise in their own sport, which they are not, I think this is all moot. With out taking a detailed look my guess is the Clippers have this distinction locked up right now, and hell since the Warriors have been in G.S., pfft OMG have they sucked.

We're bad and right now we should probably enjoy it as much we can in a "it takes our mind off of the Browns pretty much sucking" kind of way.

[peeker643]

Haven't read through this whole "argument" but from some surface points I'd say it is a bit much to say the Cavaliers are amongst the worst franchises ever, I think they are close though, and will be getting closer as the next few season unfold most likely.

40 year existence and 18 post season appearances? 22 seasons over 500? 12 going on 13 season under 400?

Part of their success and failure can be attributed to how the association is set up, let's face it there is not an easier sport to make the playoffs than the NBA, but you also pretty much need to be the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked to get the frozen envelope as well.

Until they are the worst franchise in their own sport, which they are not, I think this is all moot. With out taking a detailed look my guess is the Clippers have this distinction locked up right now, and hell since the Warriors have been in G.S., pfft OMG have they sucked.

We're bad and right now we should probably enjoy it as much we can in a "it takes our mind off of the Browns pretty much sucking" kind of way.

They sucked when I was a kid but for one year, the sucked when I was a teenager, they sucked when I was a young adult. They had some fun but soft years after I was married and then they really sucked.

6 years of relevance because of the biggest douchebag ever to lace up Nikes and one Finals appearance in their history in which they were swept.

They have a longer, prouder history of suck than any other NBA team I can think of.
You wanna argue they're second suckiest and discuss NBA playoff appearances then have at it.

For my money and in my lifetime they've been a fucking disaster and joke far more often they haven't.

YMMV.

But seriously, let's continue to argue whether they're the suckiest or 2nd suckiest franchise in all of sports.

[FUDU]

MMDV, while I agree with your overall sentiment I don't think it is even arguable really.

.362 v. .464.

At least the Cavaliers were almost kind of sorta the Utah Jazz of the East on two occasions. What do the Clippers have to show for their existence, besides smog peppered sunshine, or is it sunshine peppered smog?

[peeker643]

MMDV, while I agree with your overall sentiment I don't think it is even arguable really.

.362 v. .464.

At least the Cavaliers were almost kind of sorta the Utah Jazz of the East on two occasions. What do the Clippers have to show for their existence, besides smog peppered sunshine, or is it sunshine peppered smog?

They were a fraud when their record was built Donny. What were they before LBJ just for shits and giggles? If you have those numbers throw 'em in here. Not saying you dismiss them because they are numbers and they count. But take them out for a second.

And given LBJ's tenure and the fact we now know what we know, I dismiss them as ever being a legit title contender during his time here. Great individual basketball and regular season glory for sure. But that's part of the joke that was played on the fans here.

His time here will be and is defined by almost everyone as him fucking over the city on national tv in a joke of a one hour special. That is his defining Cleveland moment. Not 250 regular season wins or even a Finals sweep at the hnads of the Spurs.

Jim Gray helping him bend us over. That's Cavalier basketball.

[FUDU]

The Price Daugherty teams were legit, erase MJ from the Earth's existence and we go to multiple finals and maybe even win one. Utah Jazz of the EC V1.

As far as w/LBJ, us not being considered legit contenders is where I take real issue (and the whole point I am making this season in general) and why I keep calling BS, b/c of one simple FACT, he tanked, he quit, he stopped being LeBron James the basketball player. To view it all in hindsight as so many do (esp. in here) is revisionist history and utter BS IMO. He/ that moment v. Boston changed everything, we WERE the favorites, we WERE legit for 24 months, you do not win 127 games (+ X number of playoff games) if you are a complete fraud. He tanked, we lost, end of story. He plays, we go on to finals no doubt, and have a reasonably sound chance at a title, 50/50 if not slightly better. With that title in our hands right now we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Would it change the overall aesthetics of this franchise's history, hell no. It would however be a nice shine on a mackerell in the moonlight.

The franchise being labeled a fraud of sorts I can deal with, kind of inaccurate but a reasonable label, the past 2 seasons being labeled as such, when accurately viewed in context, not a freakin chance.

All in all I just wanted to argue with you, I'm hungover and don't feel like going to you know where, yet.

[peeker643]

The Price Daugherty teams were legit, erase MJ from the Earth's existence and we go to multiple finals and maybe even win one.

Aunt. Balls. Uncle as our friend would say. And they were softer than Charmin. Fact.

As far as w/LBJ, us not being considered legit contenders is where I take real issue (and the whole point I am making this season in general) and why I keep calling BS, b/c of one simple FACT, he tanked, he quit, he stopped being LeBron James the basketball player. To view it all in hindsight as so many do (esp. in here) is revisionist history and utter BS IMO. He/ that moment v. Boston changed everything, we WERE the favorites, we WERE legit for 24 months, you do not win 127 games (+ X number of playoff games) if you are a complete fraud.

He didn't quit the previous playoff years and that wasn't glorious either.

The franchise being labeled a fraud of sorts I can deal with, kind of inaccurate but a reasonable label, the past 2 seasons being labeled as such, when accurately viewed in context, not a freakin chance.

Disagree. Franchise is again a joke. A spot at the table it is very familiar and comfortable with.

Did you look up the number of wins and losses in LBJ years? I was seriously interested to see what that did to total franchise winning percentage and wasn't being a dick about it. I'll do it a bit later when I have a minute.

All in all I just wanted to argue with you, I'm hungover and don't feel like going to you know where, yet.

[FUDU]

The WC contenders for Price/Daugherty were soft enough for us, so we would have been fine.

The previous playoff years of the LeBron era had such a weaker supporting cast it isn't even funny. You now that.

I did not look up those numbers, but I think we can safely assume season totals of 27-40 right, making a difference of maybe 80-110 wins*? Meaning little impact on franchise history total IMO.

* = assuming the Cavs make a half way decent draft pick or pick up during those years and don't go 15-67 every time.

[Orenthal]

If aunt balls uncle then lets stop the if it wasn't for a ping pong ball bounce. We probably pick Darko though right...??? What is is.

All you really have to do is look how few times the Clippers even sniffed playoffs. Hey, you the debate on worst/2nd worst. Stop trying to peg us worst.

[peeker643]

Cavs Overall

1529-1765 .464

Cavs w/LBJ

431-225 .570 (47-35 over 82 games)

Cavs w/o LBJ

1098- 1540 .416 (33-49 over 82 games)

Lost in 1st round of EC playoffs every year but two in the magical Price/Daugherty years (from 87-97 years they were in playoffs 9 times, 7 1st round losses).

Honestly, there have been two separate periods in team history when they were remotely relevant. A decade of first round exits and 5 years of LeFraud.

One ended with a fizzle, one ended with a douche bag embarrassing and disrespecting the city in a one hour televised special.

In between there softballs maiming people after being dropped from the Terminal Tower, the league abolishing the franchise's right to trade, the Teddy Bears, a guy who ate beer cans, Chad Kinch and a whole lotta picks like him, A guy buffaloing a blind man to leave and that glorious 4-0 Finals appearance.

Guess I overreacted. They are the Pride of Cleveland. A fitting mascot to what this city currently is actually.

[peeker643]

If aunt balls uncle then lets stop the if it wasn't for a ping pong ball bounce. We probably pick Darko though right...??? What is is.

All you really have to do is look how few times the Clippers even sniffed playoffs. Hey, you the debate on worst/2nd worst. Stop trying to peg us worst.

Well, I'd agree if a ping pong ball bouncing their way wasn't a little less structured than the Bulls actually putting a team around their superstar that handled the Cavs (and pretty much everyone else) every freaking year.

Ping Pong ball = LBJ
Ping pong ball = MJ

No ping pong balls that account for Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Hodges, Armstrong, Cartwright, Kerr, et al. That was good front office work. That's not something you fall into every damn year.

The Cavs pretty much stopped at ping pong ball. Otherwise their legacy is really horrible franchise except for 7 years of 1st round exits.

Sweet.

[FUDU]

^ translation, LBJ is worth about 14-15 games a year. LMAO.

[/joking around]

Really though peeker way to paint an opposing view to the most extreme, we might as well be talking politics at this point.

I'm simply saying you don't have to go far at all to find a much worse franchise in sports, you don't even have to leave the NBA, at that point I don't even want to look at MLB, the NFL or ice soccer.

[Orenthal]

If aunt balls uncle then lets stop the if it wasn't for a ping pong ball bounce. We probably pick Darko though right...??? What is is.

All you really have to do is look how few times the Clippers even sniffed playoffs. Hey, you the debate on worst/2nd worst. Stop trying to peg us worst.

Well, I'd agree if a ping pong ball bouncing their way wasn't a little less structured than the Bulls actually putting a team around their superstar that handled the Cavs (and pretty much everyone else) every freaking year.

Ping Pong ball = LBJ
Ping pong ball = MJ

No ping pong balls that account for Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Hodges, Armstrong, Cartwright, Kerr, et al. That was good front office work. That's not something you fall into every damn year.

The Cavs pretty much stopped at ping pong ball.

Donny says if it wasn't for Jordan, you say if it wasn't for a ping pong ball. Stop extrapolatin'.

[peeker643]

If aunt balls uncle then lets stop the if it wasn't for a ping pong ball bounce. We probably pick Darko though right...??? What is is.

All you really have to do is look how few times the Clippers even sniffed playoffs. Hey, you the debate on worst/2nd worst. Stop trying to peg us worst.

Well, I'd agree if a ping pong ball bouncing their way wasn't a little less structured than the Bulls actually putting a team around their superstar that handled the Cavs (and pretty much everyone else) every freaking year.

Ping Pong ball = LBJ
Ping pong ball = MJ

No ping pong balls that account for Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Hodges, Armstrong, Cartwright, Kerr, et al. That was good front office work. That's not something you fall into every damn year.

The Cavs pretty much stopped at ping pong ball.

Donny says if it wasn't for Jordan, you say if it wasn't for a ping pong ball. Stop extrapolatin'.

No sir.

I give all the credit in the world for grabbing the ping pong ball, against everything they'd done historically, not fucking it up.

So let's count it as a savvy front office move.

Then what did they do? I suggest they did pretty much what they've done historically which was a great deal of nothing.

I know it grates on the egos of you boys but the franchise is a joke. Today as it was in the 70's and in the 80's.

I wish it weren't the case too. But I'm not gonna put a pig in a dress and call it something other than a pig.

[peeker643]

^
Really though peeker way to paint an opposing view to the most extreme, we might as well be talking politics at this point.

I'm simply saying you don't have to go far at all to find a much worse franchise in sports

Not my intent. But in my defense you don't have to go far to see why this franchise is at least ONE OF the biggest jokes and failures in modern history.

[FUDU]

We're agreeing w/you, it WAS?IS a joke, just not the worst joke.

FTR I call them spider pig.

ETA: I posted this before ^ but he is sober, I'm not.

Good day sir.

[peeker643]

We're agreeing w/you, it WAS?IS a joke, just not the worst joke.

FTR I call them spider pig.

ETA: I posted this before ^ but he is sober, I'm not.

Good day sir.

[leadpipe]

Actually, if Lebron weren't from Cleveland, they probably woulda taken Darko.

Which would have been a disaster to be sure, but would've also fell right in line with their historical line.

Again, as Peeker says, are we really going to argue that they are the second worst franchise in NBA history?

Can we just say, The Cleveland Cavaliers, wire to wire, are ONE of the sorriest team franchises in major sports.

Cause that's true.

[Orenthal]

Less to do with ego from my perspective. Its a totally subjective arguement. I still say 2000 Browns as Herm asked for sorriest team ever in Cleveland. You say this Cavaliers team. Every post thereafter has been trying to prove our points mostly on tangent arguements.

I'm not trying to judge "the" franchise, just this season.

In a broader sense, not this arguement, I try and judge the Gilbert regime outside the past failures.

[peeker643]

Less to do with ego from my perspective. Its a totally subjective arguement. I still say 2000 Browns as Herm asked for sorriest team ever in Cleveland. You say this Cavaliers team. Every post thereafter has been trying to prove our points mostly on tangent arguements.

I'm not trying to judge "the" franchise, just this season.

In a broader sense, not this arguement, I try and judge the Gilbert regime outside the past failures.

I'll end my participation by saying that in the sorry-ass history of this sorry-ass franchise this may be the most sorry-ass team they've put on the floor.

[FUDU]

BTW, I put an Internet hit out on you peeker, just sayin.

[peeker643]

BTW, I put an Internet hit out on you peeker, just sayin.

Can you do that? And is it wise to mention it in a post? Seems like it would be relatively easy to figure out what happened now.

Shouldn't we clean up 1perry and Rat Tail before I get got?

[FUDU]

You won't see it coming, however if you see any suspicious gray vans nearby.....

[Rat_Tail]

Shouldn't we clean up 1perry and Rat Tail before I get got?

Quoi?

[Orenthal]

Yeah I'm watching. Biggest thing so far is size. We have 0 inside. Nothing. They have like half their 18 off 2nd chance points.

[Orenthal]

Eyenga looks so solid on James. He even switched off of James on a James pass to Wade and forced him into a pass on the baseline. However it was all ruined when Hollins sucked ass as usual.

[peeker643]

Yeah I'm watching. Biggest thing so far is size. We have 0 inside. Nothing. They have like half their 18 off 2nd chance points.

Love that Durant, as a legit NBA star, said what everyone of us has said for months: Chris Bosh is a fake bad-ass.

That's not something that happens often, a guy in the league calling out another 'star' like that.

So great and clear that those guys know what time it is.

Might be the biggest reason I can no longer stand Bosh and LBJ is that they act like something they're not when they haven't faced adversity since they were 10.

As to the game, matter of time before it gets stupid. I'm still rooting for a fight or Ryan Hollons crippling somebody. Frustration has to manifest itself physically at some point.

It's all I've got.

[Orenthal]

^Least Hollins would prove useful then. Also watching Wade do his little thing before the game seems faux tough.

"He is on a good team now and thinks he can talk." KD

[Orenthal]

Getting ugly quickly. I didn't have much but "homer/hater" hope.

Better fucking beat Indy or Memphis.

[peeker643]

Yep- 7 to 18 in a blink and no hope for an answer with this roster.

Like I said, I just wanna see someone who will be a part of this team in the future be aggressive, take no shit and play physically. Sick of watching a bunch of gingers.

[Orenthal]

AC said it earlier with rebounding, can't make guys who don't have it do it... Looking for that guy on the inside is my biggest offseason target. Any chance Boston can't sign Perk? Need something like Oakley. I don't think you find that high in the draft.

[peeker643]

AC said it earlier with rebounding, can't make guys who don't have it do it... Looking for that guy on the inside is my biggest offseason target. Any chance Boston can't sign Perk? Need something like Oakley. I don't think you find that high in the draft.

Ughh... don't say Oakley. This is the same organization that drafted him and gave him away. 20 years of banging and winning he called it quits.

They do need toughness. The Cavs, despite the bunch of pussies the Heat are with LBJ and Bosh along with Z, well they still have guys like Haslem and House who will punch you in the face if you look sideways at them.

The Cavs have zero toughness unless Samuels, Gee and Harris have it that I haven't noticed.

[Orenthal]

AC said it earlier with rebounding, can't make guys who don't have it do it... Looking for that guy on the inside is my biggest offseason target. Any chance Boston can't sign Perk? Need something like Oakley. I don't think you find that high in the draft.

Ughh... don't say Oakley. This is the same organization that drafted him and gave him away. 20 years of banging and winning he called it quits.

They do need toughness. The Cavs, despite the bunch of pussies the Heat are with LBJ and Bosh along with Z, well they still have guys like Haslem and House who will punch you in the face if you look sideways at them.

The Cavs have zero toughness unless Samuels, Gee and Harris have it that I haven't noticed.

Yup drafted never played. Uh, peeks the Cavaliers are making this um close? Oh, JJ walks.

[peeker643]

Yup drafted never played. Uh, peeks the Cavaliers are making this um close? Oh, JJ walks.

They'll lose by 15-20 but how tremendous would it be if they snapped their streak down there?

God damn I hate the NBA superstar whining/crying/exasperated face while begging every trip down the floor for a call. Fuckin' play the goddamn game you pussies.

[peeker643]

If you did a shot tonight tonight every time AC said, "You can''t teach height" you'd be ripped to Drunk Guy Eating Steak levels.

[Orenthal]

That is about that. We had one shot, and couldn't take the lead. Time for my sick arse to sleep.

[peeker643]

That is about that. We had one shot, and couldn't take the lead. Time for my sick arse to sleep.

Couldn't get a hoop and can't keep the Heat from their 2nd and 3rd chances. And I was wrong. They''ll lose this by the 20-30 and not 15-20.

And with a big lead we'll get to see the hard-ass looks of some soft-ass dudes.

Feel better man.

[leadpipe]

That is about that. We had one shot, and couldn't take the lead. Time for my sick arse to sleep.

Couldn't get a hoop and can't keep the Heat from their 2nd and 3rd chances. And I was wrong. They''ll lose this by the 20-30 and not 15-20.

And with a big lead we'll get to see the hard-ass looks of some soft-ass dudes.

Feel better man.

I agree with the "fake bad-ass" stuff, but damn, I don't think Bosh has missed a shot from that right elbow since opening night against the Celts.