127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff Victories on the road

[bac5665]

Mack isn't a rookie, unless I've only imagined 2010 in Cleveland sports.


Please, please, tell me that I have imagined it!

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Jesus Christ. I really need to start laying off the pipe. Fuck me.

[motherscratcher]

Jesus Christ. I really need to start laying off the pipe. Fuck me.

Skin or crack?

[jb]

Mack isn't a rookie, unless I've only imagined 2010 in Cleveland sports.


Please, please, tell me that I have imagined it!

Be better if you imagined the 2009 draft and it wsn't real.

[Triple-S]

BUMP

well, well, well, well...that mack pick doesn't seem so bad, does it?

[rbm0183]

I guess it's time for SD to start spouting off about Josh Freeman now and put the Dilfer...errr Sanchez love on hold for a while. He already planted the seeds of a Freeman lovefest in one of his inane posts somewhere.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

BUMP

well, well, well, well...that mack pick doesn't seem so bad, does it?

Bleah....it does when you compare it to passing on Matthews

Sanchez never even entered my mind

[Triple-S]

BUMP

well, well, well, well...that mack pick doesn't seem so bad, does it?

Bleah....it does when you compare it to passing on Matthews

Sanchez never even entered my mind

Matthews?

yup, not arguing there.

Macks not a bad pick though, by any stretch though.

[jta1975]

Both AFC centers. Raji licking his chops

[jta1975]

Both AFC centers. Raji licking his chops

Sorry wrong thread.

[swerb]

Kid is a player. End of story. Not Joe Montana, but right now he's a Brian Schottenheimer goal line meltdown away from 5 road playoff wins in his first two seasons.

[peeker643]

Kid is a player. End of story. Not Joe Montana, but right now he's a Brian Schottenheimer goal line meltdown away from 5 road playoff wins in his first two seasons.

With a shoulder that'll be cut after the season per Mort. It's apparently legitimately bad.

[SoulDawg74]

Kid is a player. End of story. Not Joe Montana, but right now he's a Brian Schottenheimer goal line meltdown away from 5 road playoff wins in his first two seasons.

With a shoulder that'll be cut after the season per Mort. It's apparently legitimately bad.

SD:

Whats so frustrating is we passed on both these guys .

Sanchez gas his team on the precipice his first two years in the league,
and Jen leads a life only found in comic books with a third trip to Nirvana, before he's 29.

and the kicker is either could of and should have been Browns,

Even after all that , we have posters supporting the same lame policies which caused us to pass on both.

We need a QB to be relevant ,Franchise talent is available in this draft ,

McCoy has not confirmed he's the answer , there is no other reasonable course of action to pursue other than making sure we find that answer firsdt if we can do so in this draft.

QB is priority #1 and #1a all other considerations remain secondary to that problem.

Rapistburglar had a 35 QB rating , but he single handidly won that game with his timely runs and playmaking and toughness.

I see Cam Newton as a winner in that vain.

YMMV


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

Hey SD,

We're not drafting anyone this year at QB in the first round.

Holmgren has everything invested in McCoy this year, he seems as his "guy". He's not going to burn a draft pick on a poor mans Vince Young.

read between the lines at what Holmgren has been stating all since last year.

[motherscratcher]

McCoy has not confirmed he's the answer , there is no other reasonable course of action to pursue other than making sure we find that answer firsdt if we can do so in this draft.

QB is priority #1 and #1a all other considerations remain secondary to that problem.

Rapistburglar had a 35 QB rating , but he single handidly won that game with his timely runs and playmaking and toughness.

I see Cam Newton as a winner in that vain.

YMMV


SoulDawg

I agree with you SD. QB is top priority and everything else is secondary. And, I'd be all for "making sure we find that answer first" if such a thing were actually possible. But we don't know for sure about anybody until we see them for a few years in the NFL, and even then the situation they are in plays as big a role as their talent and potential.

The reason I don't want a QB in this draft is not because I don't think we need a QB.

Of course I acknowledge that Colt may not be the answer. I just don't think that any other QB in this draft is definitely more likely than Colt to be the answer.

Mallet has the arm strentgh and has demonstrated touch, but he's also slow and has paniced under pressure.

Newton has the arm strength and mobility, but he hasn't demonstrated a sure ability to read defenses the way I believe Colt can.

Locker has arm strength and mobility but lacks accuracy.

I admittedly know nothing about Gabbert, but it looks like he will be gone anyway.

I see warts on all of the available QB options in this draft that make them look no better than Colt does in my eyes. I understand that YMVs on this, but that doesn't mean that those who disagree with you don't have reasonable positions.

[Triple-S]

I see warts on all of the available QB options in this draft that make them look no better than Colt does in my eyes. I understand that YMVs on this, but that doesn't mean that those who disagree with you don't have reasonable positions.

Very much so on this.

Look I'd be jumping up and down at the thought of possibly drafting Andrew Luck this year, so much so I'd actually would be for the Ditka like deal to go and get him. He's to me the most complete QB and NFL ready QB I've seen in years.

Alas, he is not. So the Browns are stuck with drafting to get better at other positions in preparation for when they finally do get "the guy".

I'll make this argument too, even if you're unable to get Luck next year, you can always snag Matt Barkley. He's actually another guy I've been really impressed with, and would be worth a first round pick.

the rest? nope, not worth the investment. do I really want a DA-clone in the form of Ryan Mallet? Poor man's vince young doesn't have the accuracy that I like either. And Gibbert has come out of nowhere and Locker reaks of BQ pt. deux.

no thanks to any of them at this point.

[peeker643]

Hey SD, guess fucking what.

We're not drafting anyone this year at QB in the first round.

Holmgren has everything invested in McCoy this year, he seems as his "guy". He's not going to burn a draft pick on a poor mans Vince Young.

read between the lines at what Holmgren has been stating all since last year.

No need for a 'fucking' in the 'guess what' portion of the post.

And let's understand that while that it may be true that Holmgren isn't taking a QB, SD is correct as to the importance. And not one of us knows for sure whether Newton <=> Vince Young.

I know this subject gets annoying and over-examined, but we can be civil about it. We're all bright enough for that (except maybe FUDU and Pup)

[Triple-S]

No need for a 'fucking' in the 'guess what' portion of the post.

And let's understand that while that it may be true that Holmgren isn't taking a QB, SD is correct as to the importance. And not one of us knows for sure whether Newton <=> Vince Young.

I know this subject gets annoying and over-examined, but we can be civil about it. We're all bright enough for that (except maybe FUDU and Pup)

I edited it.

and yeah, I'm not denying that the position of QB is important. I'm just saying, I don't want the browns going all in on some guy who really didn't look all that good when I saw him play.

[pup]

No need for a 'fucking' in the 'guess what' portion of the post.

And let's understand that while that it may be true that Holmgren isn't taking a QB, SD is correct as to the importance. And not one of us knows for sure whether Newton <=> Vince Young.

I know this subject gets annoying and over-examined, but we can be civil about it. We're all bright enough for that (except maybe FUDU and Pup)

I edited it.

and yeah, I'm not denying that the position of QB is important. I'm just saying, I don't want the browns going all in on some guy who really didn't look all that good when I saw him play.

So, if Holmgren goes this way, and takes Newton at 6..are you going to melt?

[swerb]

I gotta admit, watching this year's playoffs, getting more validation as to where the NFL game has gone and is going ... and the importance in the role of the QB and passing game in it ... I am more open to consider drafting a guy like Newton #6 than I was before. Still not backing it, but thinking more about it.

I don't see him (Newton) still being on the board at #6 though.

[Triple-S]

So, if Holmgren goes this way, and takes Newton at 6..are you going to melt?

Probably not.

At this point in time, I'm not sold on the guy. However, I'll stick with whomever is under center/coaching the team solely because they are my team, and I want to see them do well.

I'm not the one handing in the draft card, I'm just a fan.

Hell, I was itching get a WR in this years draft, and now I'm not even sold on that at this point. I guess, I don't mind who is drafting really, so long as it's the RIGHT choice, no mystery box, give me the boat

[motherscratcher]

I gotta admit, watching this year's playoffs, getting more validation as to where the NFL game has gone and is going ... and the importance in the role of the QB and passing game in it ... I am more open to consider drafting a guy like Newton #6 than I was before. Still not backing it, but thinking more about it.

I don't see him (Newton) still being on the board at #6 though.

I think Newton will still be on the board at #6. It seems like Gabbert is rated higher at this point. Although, the Carson Palmer trade request does throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

If he's available and the Browns take him I will definitely not melt. In fact, with his athletic ability and potential, I will talk myself into that pick in abou 4.2 seconds.

It's just, at this point in time, I'm leary of another bust and I have high hopes (I am from Cleveland after all) for Colt.

[yogi]

McCoy has not confirmed he's the answer , there is no other reasonable course of action to pursue other than making sure we find that answer firsdt if we can do so in this draft.

It seems that McCoy has shown enough to have an offense built and designed to his strengths. It ought to be interesting since it will be the first time since Belichick had Vinny that someone in charge in Ctown has actually done that!

Of course its kinda interesting that it so happens to be in the same offense that the Browns were gonna have, come hell or high water, Mangini, Daball not with-standing. And they aint.

[peeker643]

No need for a 'fucking' in the 'guess what' portion of the post.

And let's understand that while that it may be true that Holmgren isn't taking a QB, SD is correct as to the importance. And not one of us knows for sure whether Newton <=> Vince Young.

I know this subject gets annoying and over-examined, but we can be civil about it. We're all bright enough for that (except maybe FUDU and Pup)

I edited it.

and yeah, I'm not denying that the position of QB is important. I'm just saying, I don't want the browns going all in on some guy who really didn't look all that good when I saw him play.

So, if Holmgren goes this way, and takes Newton at 6..are you going to melt?

In Holmgren I (have no choice but to) trust.

I think it would be ridiculous to take that particular QB at that particular spot for this particular team at this particular point in time.'


But it would be very hypocritical of me to say IHIT and then melt over the selection if that was it.

That's my $0.02 on it anyway.

[FUDU]

I just can't grasp why so many are enamored with Cam as a replacement for Colt at this juncture of our mini rebuild and their respective careers. If Cam had played half a season in the NFL and showed signs then fine, but he hasn't and Colt has. Not to mention the level of competition that they both have under their belts (college), in which Colt had the better career and excelled.

We see a couple QBs run around all weekend and we think we need to start over and get mirror images of what we saw. Those guys were put into established teams and offensive systems (with talent), their transitions were coddled or cushioned if you will. Give Colt at least half that same chance and it is reasonable to think he'll blossom into a very legit QB.

[motherscratcher]

I just can't grasp why so many are enamored with Cam as a replacement for Colt at this juncture of our mini rebuild and their respective careers. If Cam had played half a season in the NFL and showed signs then fine, but he hasn't and Colt has. Not to mention the level of competition that they both have under their belts (college), in which Colt had the better career and excelled.

We see a couple QBs run around all weekend and we think we need to start over and get mirror images of what we saw. Those guys were put into established teams and offensive systems (with talent), their transitions were coddled or cushioned if you will. Give Colt at least half that same chance and it is reasonable to think he'll blossom into a very legit QB.

I agree with this 100%.

Also, not to mention that I have it on good authority that POS is just really lucky.

[RedDawg]

To throw my two coppers in, I don't really care who we draft. There are about 10-12 new bodies that need to hit the field for us to be 8-8. QB or not QB, it doesn't really matter at this point. I'll just trust Holmgren/Heckert to get us to mediocre before we start dreaming about actually mattering in the NFL again.

That's all I really want for now. We are light years behind the top six teams in the AFC right now, and quite a few of the other bottom-feeders are pulling away from us.

8-8 for two years, then I'll give a shit who we draft in the first - because then they just MIGHT be able to put us over the top.

PS - Big Ben would have sucked and been out of the League if we'd have drafted him. Clay Matthews Jr. would have alternated with Marcus Bernard while he "learned the ropes".

Case in point. Ray Malamula is "just a guy" in CIN right now. If he'd gone to the Packers/Jets/Steelers/Pats he'd be an all-Pro this year.

[jta1975]

The QB spot is always going to be the most critical spot on the team as long as they handle the ball every play. That being true it is imperative to have a good one but TEAMS win championships from the sum of parts period. If Big Ben was not on a team that was capable of handling his 10\19 133yard and two pick performance he would have never gotten the opportunity to get the first downs at the end and allow them to hang on to the victory. He is the perfect QB for a team with a very good RB,all world "D", and a O-line that is best suited for run blocking not pass blocking but by no means "the reason" they won that game.166 rushing yards and a defensive touchdown accounted for a whole lot in that.

As far as picking a QB with the sixth pick, it really has to do with the full situation. With a killer D and getting some explosive outside weapons married with proper coaching and leadership then maybe Cam Newton or whoever you might take will be the answer but without those things we or any other team will not win on a regular basis. Cam is not holding up trophies without Nic Fairley and those boys beasting on D. Just like Drew Brees and his 404 yard 2TD 0 pick performance wasn't good enough to get out of the first round of play-offs this year.

I would not have a problem with the first pick being a QB if he was going to be "the ticket". I know better than that. I want to know what else is in the equation to success, because it ain't just that. I won't have a problem with a QB being the pick, but you better come with more than just that.

[just another fool]

The QB spot is always going to be the most critical spot on the team as long as they handle the ball every play. That being true it is imperative to have a good one but TEAMS win championships from the sum of parts period. If Big Ben was not on a team that was capable of handling his 10\19 133yard and two pick performance he would have never gotten the opportunity to get the first downs at the end and allow them to hang on to the victory. He is the perfect QB for a team with a very good RB,all world "D", and a O-line that is best suited for run blocking not pass blocking but by no means "the reason" they won that game.166 rushing yards and a defensive touchdown accounted for a whole lot in that.

As far as picking a QB with the sixth pick, it really has to do with the full situation. With a killer D and getting some explosive outside weapons married with proper coaching and leadership then maybe Cam Newton or whoever you might take will be the answer but without those things we or any other team will not win on a regular basis. Cam is not holding up trophies without Nic Fairley and those boys beasting on D. Just like Drew Brees and his 404 yard 2TD 0 pick performance wasn't good enough to get out of the first round of play-offs this year.

I would not have a problem with the first pick being a QB if he was going to be "the ticket". I know better than that. I want to know what else is in the equation to success, because it ain't just that. I won't have a problem with a QB being the pick, but you better come with more than just that.

excellent take, but you are sooooooooo gonna get triple posted.

[Ziner]

jta, good post but I dont really get it. Are you saying that Sanchy wouldnt have a 127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff victories if he played for the Browns? I think Souldawg must have brain washed me.

[jta1975]

jta, good post but I dont really get it. Are you saying that Sanchy wouldnt have a 127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff victories if he played for the Browns? I think Souldawg must have brain washed me.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am not really attacking the original post. My beef is with the "we will never win until we have a QB" club. I mean that is a 1st grade statement to a college topic.

Look at the top 5 QBs passer ratings from last year. Brady,Rivers,Rogers,Vick,Big Ben, 4 of the 5 made the playoffs because they are on good teams period. They did their part well no doubt about it, but look at sum of the parts they are working with. They go hand in hand. Brady is really the only one with out a ton of playmakers and even that statement is subjective. Then Freeman,Flacco,Cassel,Shaub,Manning. Analyze what these guys are working with. All the weapons Sanchez had during the year and he pulled a QB rating of 75.3 for 27th in the league. You can be on a very good team(DEFENSE)and get away with it.

Kudos to Mark for his post-season rating and back to back AFC Championship game. But if they were riding him, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I actually agree with the point of the original pody when it comes to blowing the trade but not because of him,Freeman looks better right now anyway. Blowing the whole second round like Hokinis did set us even further back then we already were. Mack made the pro-bowl Coleman and Elam servicable starters. A good second round we might be in the game. Instead, we are once again starting over.

[leadpipe]

jta, good post but I dont really get it. Are you saying that Sanchy wouldnt have a 127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff victories if he played for the Browns? I think Souldawg must have brain washed me.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am not really attacking the original post. My beef is with the "we will never win until we have a QB" club. I mean that is a 1st grade statement to a college topic.

Look at the top 5 QBs passer ratings from last year. Brady,Rivers,Rogers,Vick,Big Ben, 4 of the 5 made the playoffs because they are on good teams period. They did their part well no doubt about it, but look at sum of the parts they are working with. They go hand in hand. Brady is really the only one with out a ton of playmakers and even that statement is subjective. Then Freeman,Flacco,Cassel,Shaub,Manning. Analyze what these guys are working with. All the weapons Sanchez had during the year and he pulled a QB rating of 75.3 for 27th in the league. You can be on a very good team(DEFENSE)and get away with it.

Kudos to Mark for his post-season rating and back to back AFC Championship game. But if they were riding him, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I actually agree with the point of the original pody when it comes to blowing the trade but not because of him,Freeman looks better right now anyway. Blowing the whole second round like Hokinis did set us even further back then we already were. Mack made the pro-bowl Coleman and Elam servicable starters. A good second round we might be in the game. Instead, we are once again starting over.

Now, more than ever, you HAVE to have a quarterback. Mark Sanchez is the exception rather than the rule - by far. You bring up last years playoffs. Look at ALL the 2009-10 playoff teams. For all their differences they ALL had one thing in common, again, with the exception of the Jets.

Look at the history of the Super Bowl. Winner AND losers. For every Trent Dilfer there are ten guys in the Hall of Fame or were having MVP seasons - or both.

I see the point that many of the good quarterbacks are surrounded by good teams, however, I would argue that without those quarterbacks, those teams would cease to be good. The two Super Bowl quarerbacks, Big Ben and Aaron were behind poor, injured O-lines all year long, some stretches their lines were about the worst in the league. They got thru it because they are PLAYAS, not because of the team.

In any event, I'm not taking Cam sixth, because at the end of the day, with all the changes in the game, first and foremost, you still gotta be able to THROW THE FOOTBALL. Until relatively inaccurate hybrids start winning some big games, they'll still be miles behind the Mannings, Bradys Brees' and Rodgers of this world. Even a guy like Big Ben, who's obvious strength is keeping plays alive, ultimately cashes in on said plays by throwing the football.

Maybe Cam will show he can throw the ball well enough, but for the same reason I didn't want Vince or Tebow, I'll pass. Especially with number 6.

[SoulDawg74]

jta, good post but I dont really get it. Are you saying that Sanchy wouldnt have a 127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff victories if he played for the Browns? I think Souldawg must have brain washed me.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am not really attacking the original post. My beef is with the "we will never win until we have a QB" club. I mean that is a 1st grade statement to a college topic.

Look at the top 5 QBs passer ratings from last year. Brady,Rivers,Rogers,Vick,Big Ben, 4 of the 5 made the playoffs because they are on good teams period. They did their part well no doubt about it, but look at sum of the parts they are working with. They go hand in hand. Brady is really the only one with out a ton of playmakers and even that statement is subjective. Then Freeman,Flacco,Cassel,Shaub,Manning. Analyze what these guys are working with. All the weapons Sanchez had during the year and he pulled a QB rating of 75.3 for 27th in the league. You can be on a very good team(DEFENSE)and get away with it.

Kudos to Mark for his post-season rating and back to back AFC Championship game. But if they were riding him, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I actually agree with the point of the original pody when it comes to blowing the trade but not because of him,Freeman looks better right now anyway. Blowing the whole second round like Hokinis did set us even further back then we already were. Mack made the pro-bowl Coleman and Elam servicable starters. A good second round we might be in the game. Instead, we are once again starting over.

Now, more than ever, you HAVE to have a quarterback. Mark Sanchez is the exception rather than the rule - by far. You bring up last years playoffs. Look at ALL the 2009-10 playoff teams. For all their differences they ALL had one thing in common, again, with the exception of the Jets.

Look at the history of the Super Bowl. Winner AND losers. For every Trent Dilfer there are ten guys in the Hall of Fame or were having MVP seasons - or both.

I see the point that many of the good quarterbacks are surrounded by good teams, however, I would argue that without those quarterbacks, those teams would cease to be good. The two Super Bowl quarerbacks, Big Ben and Aaron were behind poor, injured O-lines all year long, some stretches their lines were about the worst in the league. They got thru it because they are PLAYAS, not because of the team.

In any event, I'm not taking Cam sixth, because at the end of the day, with all the changes in the game, first and foremost, you still gotta be able to THROW THE FOOTBALL. Until relatively inaccurate hybrids start winning some big games, they'll still be miles behind the Mannings, Bradys Brees' and Rodgers of this world. Even a guy like Big Ben, who's obvious strength is keeping plays alive, ultimately cashes in on said plays by throwing the football.

Maybe Cam will show he can throw the ball well enough, but for the same reason I didn't want Vince or Tebow, I'll pass. Especially with number 6.

SD:

Doubt we even get that option to be so ..........................C A V A L I E R .

From Great blue North >>>

2011 DRAFT PROJECTION


January 13, 2011
* Indicates underclassman

FIRST ROUND

Team
Player POS
School
1 Carolina *Blaine Gabbert
QB
Missouri
2
Denver *Da'Quan Bowers DE
Clemson
3
Buffalo *Nick Fairley DT
Auburn
4
Cincinnati
*A.J. Green WR Georgia
5
Arizona
*Cam Newton
QB
Auburn
6
Cleveland *Marcell Dareus
DT Alabama
7
San Francisco
*Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas
8 Tennessee
*Patrick Peterson CB LSU
9
Dallas *Allen Bailey DE
Miami
10
Washington Adrian Clayborn DE
Iowa
11 Houston Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
12
Minnesota Jake Locker
QB
Washington
13 Detroit *Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
14 St. Louis
*Julio Jones
WR
Alabama
15
Miami
*Mark Ingram RB
Alabama
16 Jacksonville Ryan Kerrigan DE
Purdue
17 New England (from Oakland) *Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
18
San Diego Von Miller LB Texas A&M
19 New York Giants Nate Solder
OT
Colorado
20
Tampa Bay *Aldon Smith
DE
Missouri
21 Kansas City *Akeem Ayers LB
UCLA
22 Indianapolis Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State
23
Philadelphia *Brandon Harris CB
Miami
24
New Orleans Cameron Jordan DE California
*25
Seattle *Shane Vereen RB
California
*26
Green Bay *Brandon Burton CB
Utah
*27
Chicago Gabe Carimi OT
Wisconsin
*28 New York Jets *Justin Houston LB Georgia
*29
Baltimore *J.J. Watt DE
Wisconsin
*30
Pittsburgh Anthony Castonzo OT
Boston College
*31
Atlanta Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
*32
New England Dontay Moch LB
Nevada

************************************


SoulDawg

[leadpipe]

jta, good post but I dont really get it. Are you saying that Sanchy wouldnt have a 127 QB rating 3 TD's and Four playoff victories if he played for the Browns? I think Souldawg must have brain washed me.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am not really attacking the original post. My beef is with the "we will never win until we have a QB" club. I mean that is a 1st grade statement to a college topic.

Look at the top 5 QBs passer ratings from last year. Brady,Rivers,Rogers,Vick,Big Ben, 4 of the 5 made the playoffs because they are on good teams period. They did their part well no doubt about it, but look at sum of the parts they are working with. They go hand in hand. Brady is really the only one with out a ton of playmakers and even that statement is subjective. Then Freeman,Flacco,Cassel,Shaub,Manning. Analyze what these guys are working with. All the weapons Sanchez had during the year and he pulled a QB rating of 75.3 for 27th in the league. You can be on a very good team(DEFENSE)and get away with it.

Kudos to Mark for his post-season rating and back to back AFC Championship game. But if they were riding him, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I actually agree with the point of the original pody when it comes to blowing the trade but not because of him,Freeman looks better right now anyway. Blowing the whole second round like Hokinis did set us even further back then we already were. Mack made the pro-bowl Coleman and Elam servicable starters. A good second round we might be in the game. Instead, we are once again starting over.

Now, more than ever, you HAVE to have a quarterback. Mark Sanchez is the exception rather than the rule - by far. You bring up last years playoffs. Look at ALL the 2009-10 playoff teams. For all their differences they ALL had one thing in common, again, with the exception of the Jets.

Look at the history of the Super Bowl. Winner AND losers. For every Trent Dilfer there are ten guys in the Hall of Fame or were having MVP seasons - or both.

I see the point that many of the good quarterbacks are surrounded by good teams, however, I would argue that without those quarterbacks, those teams would cease to be good. The two Super Bowl quarerbacks, Big Ben and Aaron were behind poor, injured O-lines all year long, some stretches their lines were about the worst in the league. They got thru it because they are PLAYAS, not because of the team.

In any event, I'm not taking Cam sixth, because at the end of the day, with all the changes in the game, first and foremost, you still gotta be able to THROW THE FOOTBALL. Until relatively inaccurate hybrids start winning some big games, they'll still be miles behind the Mannings, Bradys Brees' and Rodgers of this world. Even a guy like Big Ben, who's obvious strength is keeping plays alive, ultimately cashes in on said plays by throwing the football.

Maybe Cam will show he can throw the ball well enough, but for the same reason I didn't want Vince or Tebow, I'll pass. Especially with number 6.

SD:

Doubt we even get that option to be so ..........................C A V A L I E R .

From Great blue North >>>

2011 DRAFT PROJECTION


January 13, 2011
* Indicates underclassman

FIRST ROUND

Team
Player POS
School
1 Carolina *Blaine Gabbert
QB
Missouri
2
Denver *Da'Quan Bowers DE
Clemson
3
Buffalo *Nick Fairley DT
Auburn
4
Cincinnati
*A.J. Green WR Georgia
5
Arizona
*Cam Newton
QB
Auburn
6
Cleveland *Marcell Dareus
DT Alabama
7
San Francisco
*Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas
8 Tennessee
*Patrick Peterson CB LSU
9
Dallas *Allen Bailey DE
Miami
10
Washington Adrian Clayborn DE
Iowa
11 Houston Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
12
Minnesota Jake Locker
QB
Washington
13 Detroit *Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
14 St. Louis
*Julio Jones
WR
Alabama
15
Miami
*Mark Ingram RB
Alabama
16 Jacksonville Ryan Kerrigan DE
Purdue
17 New England (from Oakland) *Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
18
San Diego Von Miller LB Texas A&M
19 New York Giants Nate Solder
OT
Colorado
20
Tampa Bay *Aldon Smith
DE
Missouri
21 Kansas City *Akeem Ayers LB
UCLA
22 Indianapolis Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State
23
Philadelphia *Brandon Harris CB
Miami
24
New Orleans Cameron Jordan DE California
*25
Seattle *Shane Vereen RB
California
*26
Green Bay *Brandon Burton CB
Utah
*27
Chicago Gabe Carimi OT
Wisconsin
*28 New York Jets *Justin Houston LB Georgia
*29
Baltimore *J.J. Watt DE
Wisconsin
*30
Pittsburgh Anthony Castonzo OT
Boston College
*31
Atlanta Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
*32
New England Dontay Moch LB
Nevada

************************************


SoulDawg

If I don't want him at 6, I would be thrilled if someone took him at 5. Again, I don't give a shit if he's Clark Kent - you better KNOW he can pass it at 5.

FWIW, it's just as bad to take Locker 12th, as this mock has him going.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Newton at 5 to the same team that thought they could instantly replace Kurt Warner with Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson. I can see it.

[peeker643]

Newton at 5 to the same team that thought they could instantly replace Kurt Warner with Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson. I can see it.

I like even more the heat on Gabbert. A guy no one said shit about all season until December.

Now he's #1?

Excellent.

I'm going to publish a mock here on TCF so that it hits google searches and see if I can't get someone here to reprint it as truth.

You'll know it's mine when you see Mansfield Lucas, OLB, Drake, at #25.

[JCoz]

Newton at 5 to the same team that thought they could instantly replace Kurt Warner with Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson. I can see it.

I like even more the heat on Gabbert. A guy no one said shit about all season until December.

Now he's #1?

Excellent.

I'm going to publish a mock here on TCF so that it hits google searches and see if I can't get someone here to reprint it as truth.

You'll know it's mine when you see Mansfield Lucas, OLB, Drake, at #25.

I think you will find that Gabberts heat is deserved, he is alot better the late push/combine dream boat you seem to be inferring.

[peeker643]

Newton at 5 to the same team that thought they could instantly replace Kurt Warner with Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson. I can see it.

I like even more the heat on Gabbert. A guy no one said shit about all season until December.

Now he's #1?

Excellent.

I'm going to publish a mock here on TCF so that it hits google searches and see if I can't get someone here to reprint it as truth.

You'll know it's mine when you see Mansfield Lucas, OLB, Drake, at #25.

I think you will find that Gabberts heat is deserved, he is alot better the late push/combine dream boat you seem to be inferring.

Given there's been no combine let's look solely at late push.

When was the first time you heard his name mentioned as a 1st rounder much less #1.

And if someone here wants to go back and look at all the college threads including the Luck threads where all these QBs were discussed let me know when Gabbert makes an appearance.

Lastly, look back at the mocks and tell me when he hit the first round and the #1 spot.

Please don't tell me I'm inferring it was a late push when that's EXACTLY what it was Coz.

Dude has flown up the mocks and it wasn't til December that it began. I know there will be people here to claim to have had an inkling or been all over the guy from the start of the season (and not saying you're that guy) but I'm calling horseshit.

[JCoz]

What I meant to say was that you seem to be inferring that the late push is somehow indicative of him having a false standing as the top QB prospect.

And that you'd be wrong if you were.

[peeker643]

What I meant to say was that you seem to be inferring that the late push is somehow indicative of him having a false standing as the top QB prospect.

And that you'd be wrong if you were.

I have no idea how good a prospect he is. Never heard him mentioned in that vein until, like I said again, December.

And I'm saying that people who are all over him, including those here who now (and only now) believe he's the top QB in the draft, weren't saying that until 6 weeks ago and that ain't because Luck stayed in school.

I'm saying that anyone here and many who write these mock drafts are fronting on their love and knowledge regarding Gabbert. Flat-out fronting.

[peeker643]

January 2nd.

The prospective #1 pick in the NFL draft was first mentioned here on January 2nd 2011.

Unless you count Tripods mentioning that Gabbert had to grow to be Chase Daniels last May.

You know what that menas? The scouts and mocks weren't on him either because people parrot the shit out of both scouts and mocks on this site.

Gabbert was 6'5" 235lbs and was doing what he was doing all season.

Maybe he's all that. But fuck that people here are now talking like they knew or know it or they were on it.

Dude's regular season was finished at the end of November and he lost his bowl game at the end of December. Was his bowl preparation really great in that month? Did his bowl performance really improve in the week between he played Iowa and the week his name appeared here?

Maybe the folks here refused to talk about him like all the scouts and Mockies.

[JCoz]

What I meant to say was that you seem to be inferring that the late push is somehow indicative of him having a false standing as the top QB prospect.

And that you'd be wrong if you were.

I have no idea how good a prospect he is. Never heard him mentioned in that vein until, like I said again, December.

And I'm saying that people who are all over him, including those here who now (and only now) believe he's the top QB in the draft, weren't saying that until 6 weeks ago and that ain't because Luck stayed in school.

I'm saying that anyone here and many who write these mock drafts are fronting on their love and knowledge regarding Gabbert. Flat-out fronting.

Well I think you'll be extremely hard pressed to find a single one of these QB draft or even national college QB discussions in which I was involved, commenting at all.

I did comment on JB's thread, that was the first I talked about QB's and the browns.

If I HAD, I would have been talking about Gabbert as the clear #2 behind Luck.

But Luck was such a huge story in NFL and college circles, and Cam was such a huge story in college circles, that it didn't leave a whole lot of time to talk about anyone else.

Gabbert was an elite recruit coming into college and had a STELLAR Soph. year after only throwing a few passes as a true freshman.

That Mizzou's talent dipped a bit this year and he didn't put up all world stats as a Junior,combined with the aforementioned blinding focus on Cam and Luck, its actually rather easy to see how a wet blanket was throw on him and not removed until December.

IMO, Gabbert is not the can't miss #1 that Luck was, and was never going to be.

But with Luck bowing out, leaving the comparison Cam vs Locker vs Gabbert, there was never going to be a huge debate, Gabbert wins that one whether you asked in Sept or Dec.

I just don't think there was alot of focus with these other huge stories, not forgetting Cam and Auburn and TP and OSU's highly public issues.

I don't know just how good he'll be, but I do know that he is the #1 Qb left on the board, and while that may be new to some people, it makes it no less true.

[JCoz]

January 2nd.

The prospective #1 pick in the NFL draft was first mentioned here on January 2nd 2011.

Unless you count Tripods mentioning that Gabbert had to grow to be Chase Daniels last May.

You know what that menas? The scouts and mocks weren't on him either because people parrot the shit out of both scouts and mocks on this site.

Gabbert was 6'5" 235lbs and was doing what he was doing all season.

Maybe he's all that. But fuck that people here are now talking like they knew or know it or they were on it.

Dude's regular season was finished at the end of November and he lost his bowl game at the end of December. Was his bowl preparation really great in that month? Did his bowl performance really improve in the week between he played Iowa and the week his name appeared here?

Maybe the folks here refused to talk about him like all the scouts and Mockies.

We have different issues.

You seem to be taking issue with some people (I'm not even sure who) claiming to have been riding the Gabbert train all along.

Don't know who they are or if they just heard his name last week.

I'm just saying you (IMO) are drawing bad conclusions about Gabbert based on a hate for (real or imaginary) front running liars.

[peeker643]

What I meant to say was that you seem to be inferring that the late push is somehow indicative of him having a false standing as the top QB prospect.

And that you'd be wrong if you were.

I have no idea how good a prospect he is. Never heard him mentioned in that vein until, like I said again, December.

And I'm saying that people who are all over him, including those here who now (and only now) believe he's the top QB in the draft, weren't saying that until 6 weeks ago and that ain't because Luck stayed in school.

I'm saying that anyone here and many who write these mock drafts are fronting on their love and knowledge regarding Gabbert. Flat-out fronting.

Well I think you'll be extremely hard pressed to find in me a single one of these QB draft or even national college QB discussions in which I was involved, commenting at all.

I did comment on JB's thread, that was the first I talked about QB's and the browns.

If I HAD, I would have been talking about Gabbert as the clear #2 behind Luck.

But Luck was such a huge story in NFL and college circles, and Cam was such a huge story in college circles, that it didn't leave a whole lot of time to talk about anyone else.

Gabbert was an elite recruit coming into college and had a STELLAR Soph. year after only throwing a few passes as a true freshman.

That Mizzou's talent dipped a bit this year and he didn't put up all world stats as a Junior,combined with the aforementioned blinding focus on Cam and Luck, its actually rather easy to see how a wet blanket was throw on him and not removed until December.

IMO, Gabbert is not the can't miss #1 that Luck was, and was never going to be.

But with Luck bowing out, leaving the comparison Cam vs Locker vs Gabbert, there was never going to be a huge debate, Gabbert wins that one whether you asked in Sept or Dec.

I just don't think there was alot of focus with these other huge stories, not forgetting Cam and Auburn and TP and OSU's highly public issues.

I don't know just how good he'll be, but I do know that he is the #1 Qb left on the board, and while that may be new to some people, it makes it no less true.

I can guarantee you at least one poster here will be be talking (and already somewhat is) like he's intimately aware of Gabbert and that the Browns need to Ditka their draft to get the kid.

I'd bet my house that there aren't three people here who've seen Gabbert play two full games.

[gotribe31]

What I meant to say was that you seem to be inferring that the late push is somehow indicative of him having a false standing as the top QB prospect.

And that you'd be wrong if you were.

I have no idea how good a prospect he is. Never heard him mentioned in that vein until, like I said again, December.

And I'm saying that people who are all over him, including those here who now (and only now) believe he's the top QB in the draft, weren't saying that until 6 weeks ago and that ain't because Luck stayed in school.

I'm saying that anyone here and many who write these mock drafts are fronting on their love and knowledge regarding Gabbert. Flat-out fronting.

Well I think you'll be extremely hard pressed to find in me a single one of these QB draft or even national college QB discussions in which I was involved, commenting at all.

I did comment on JB's thread, that was the first I talked about QB's and the browns.

If I HAD, I would have been talking about Gabbert as the clear #2 behind Luck.

But Luck was such a huge story in NFL and college circles, and Cam was such a huge story in college circles, that it didn't leave a whole lot of time to talk about anyone else.

Gabbert was an elite recruit coming into college and had a STELLAR Soph. year after only throwing a few passes as a true freshman.

That Mizzou's talent dipped a bit this year and he didn't put up all world stats as a Junior,combined with the aforementioned blinding focus on Cam and Luck, its actually rather easy to see how a wet blanket was throw on him and not removed until December.

IMO, Gabbert is not the can't miss #1 that Luck was, and was never going to be.

But with Luck bowing out, leaving the comparison Cam vs Locker vs Gabbert, there was never going to be a huge debate, Gabbert wins that one whether you asked in Sept or Dec.

I just don't think there was alot of focus with these other huge stories, not forgetting Cam and Auburn and TP and OSU's highly public issues.

I don't know just how good he'll be, but I do know that he is the #1 Qb left on the board, and while that may be new to some people, it makes it no less true.

I can guarantee you at least one poster here will be be talking (and already somewhat is) like he's intimately aware of Gabbert and that the Browns need to Ditka their draft to get the kid.

I'd bet my house that there aren't three people here who've seen Gabbert play two full games.

I actually watched the Missouri-Iowa game and came away impressed with Gabbert. At the time, I hadn't heard anything about him at all with regards to the draft, and was thinking he'd be a good guy to take a flier on in the 3rd round. I guess I was right...he'd be a GREAT get in the 3rd round

[JCoz]

I'd bet my house that there aren't three people here who've seen Gabbert play two full games.

Probably close, I'd say a good 5-6.

[peeker643]

January 2nd.

The prospective #1 pick in the NFL draft was first mentioned here on January 2nd 2011.

Unless you count Tripods mentioning that Gabbert had to grow to be Chase Daniels last May.

You know what that menas? The scouts and mocks weren't on him either because people parrot the shit out of both scouts and mocks on this site.

Gabbert was 6'5" 235lbs and was doing what he was doing all season.

Maybe he's all that. But fuck that people here are now talking like they knew or know it or they were on it.

Dude's regular season was finished at the end of November and he lost his bowl game at the end of December. Was his bowl preparation really great in that month? Did his bowl performance really improve in the week between he played Iowa and the week his name appeared here?

Maybe the folks here refused to talk about him like all the scouts and Mockies.

We have different issues.

You seem to be taking issue with some people (I'm not even sure who) claiming to have been riding the Gabbert train all along.

Don't know who they are or if they just heard his name last week.

I'm just saying you (IMO) are drawing bad conclusions about Gabbert based on a hate for (real or imaginary) front running liars.

I'm drawing zero conclusions about him. Never seen him play a full game. And I'd bet less than 2% of the people here have seen him play two full games.

Ad no here even knew who the hell he was til January and certainly wasn't talking about him if they did.

But that's the #1 pick in the draft? A guy no one heard of til January?

I don't believe it. I'm saying people who have him first in their mocks and who are all over him here are phonies and frauds.

That's all.

He might be Christ in a helmet. I don't know. I'm just laughing that a there will be people blowing him here who couldn't pick him out of a lineup and have never, EVER seen him play.

Dude's not the first pick in the draft based on that alone.

Mark it down and hit me with it if I'm wrong.

[JCoz]

I'm drawing zero conclusions about him. Never seen him play a full game. And I'd bet less than 2% of the people here have seen him play two full games.

Ad no here even knew who the hell he was til January and certainly wasn't talking about him if they did.

But that's the #1 pick in the draft? A guy no one heard of til January?

I don't believe it. I'm saying people who have him first in their mocks and who are all over him here are phonies and frauds.

That's all.

He might be Christ in a helmet. I don't know. I'm just laughing that a there will be people blowing him here who couldn't pick him out of a lineup and have never, EVER seen him play.

Dude's not the first pick in the draft based on that alone.

Mark it down and hit me with it if I'm wrong.

I don't understand, how is that not drawing a conclusion?

I knew who Gabbert was when he was 16, however creepy that sounds. And Dan may have and JoJo probably did as well.

Guy was a Top 15 overall recruit and the #1 QB nationally.

I haven't seen a ton of his games, probably in the range of 7-8.

I think you are really mistaking (at least nationally, media and such) the place on peoples radars for him.

Guy was a known commodity, was probably on all the appropriate "watch" lists before the season started, he just managed to fly under the radar in this bizarre college season.

You are confusing me, I can't tell when you are just being TCF centric or applying it to mocks and draftniks abroad....

[peeker643]

You are confusing me, I can't tell when you are just being TCF centric or applying it to mocks and draftniks abroad....

I'm saying he's not going #1 overall.

I'm saying 95% of the mock drafts and message boards are created by or inhabited by people who don't know Gabbert from Kapaernik.

I'm saying it drives me fucking crazy that these 95% exist and that there are people here who had legitimately never heard of Gabbert who will pimp the shit out of him on these boards.

Again, being a sheep like that drives me nuts. Not you, not Dan. Not the people like you guys and JTA1975 and Furls who keep track of this shit. Although it does strike me that not even you guys mentioned him once this season. Not one time for the guy right behind Jake Locker? When Stanzi was mentioned? And Locker? And Ponder? And Tyrod? And Forcier and Robinson?

Talking about the sheep.

They'll be here between now and April. There's one up thread who used a mock with Gabbert going #1.

$25 to whomever wants to bet me he goes first. You give me $10 for each spot he falls after that. So if he goes#2 you owe me $10, #3 you owe me $20 and so on.

[pup]

$25 to whomever wants to bet me he goes first. You give me $10 for each spot he falls after that. So if he goes#2 you owe me $10, #3 you owe me $20 and so on.

Careful. I think Peeks has pictures of Gabbert, a bunch of blow and a deer that could cause him to fall to Mr. Irrelevant and Peeks a very rich man.