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Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

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Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:26 am

I love it when the ball gets rolling and the media start a frenzy to find every damn thing that anyone has ever done wrong. Cam Newton's blood is in the water. Now there is a report of him cheating in school while at Florida.

At first I thought "A college football player cheat?! Surely you jest."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5783051

This is probably my favorite part:

According to FoxSports.com, Newton again violated the university's honor code by putting his name on another student's paper and turning it in. Newton was caught after the instructor asked the real author of the paper why he had not turned in his work.


I've been over it and over it and I just can't find the flaw in that plan. I'm sitting here trying to figure out just how in the hell he got caught.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:14 am

Motherscratcher wrote:I love it when the ball gets rolling and the media start a frenzy to find every damn thing that anyone has ever done wrong. Cam Newton's blood is in the water. Now there is a report of him cheating in school while at Florida.

At first I thought "A college football player cheat?! Surely you jest."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5783051

This is probably my favorite part:

According to FoxSports.com, Newton again violated the university's honor code by putting his name on another student's paper and turning it in. Newton was caught after the instructor asked the real author of the paper why he had not turned in his work.


I've been over it and over it and I just can't find the flaw in that plan. I'm sitting here trying to figure out just how in the hell he got caught.


Auburn fans are 100% convinced that this is all the grand scheme of Mullens and Meyer to bring them down.

This revelation will only add gas to that fire.

I kind of knew about the stolen laptop but hadn't heard about the academic cheating.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:23 am

It'll all get swept under the rug if Auburn loses a game.

I love how the media goes about their job though, really, like anyone in the media has never acted in an unethical manner to get a story or get a job.

If we knew how many of those fucks were sleeping with each other it would make our head spin.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:32 pm

If we knew how many of those fucks were sleeping with each other it would make our head spin.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:51 am

This should just about do it...

http://es.pn/8Yd28k

Two sources who recruit for Mississippi State told school compliance officials in January that quarterback Cam Newton and his father each admitted in separate phone conversations that his college choice would be about money, ESPN's Joe Schad reports. The sources said that prior to Newton's commitment to Auburn, Cecil Newton said it would take "more than a scholarship" to get his son to that school and that a third party could provide specifics. Newton was told the school would not meet such a request, according to the sources, who say the information was relayed to SEC officials. An emotional Cam Newton is said to have later called another Mississippi State recruiter to express regret over changing his commitment to the school but that his father chose Auburn because "the money was too much."

The SEC motto..."if you ain't cheatin', you ain't competin"

So..."SEC officials" have known about the Cam Newton auction for some time apparently. Hope Dad is proud of what he has done to his son.

And let's see how Auburn University is held to account.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby tired » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:18 am

Busted !!!
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:48 am

wiz1001 wrote:This should just about do it...

http://es.pn/8Yd28k

Two sources who recruit for Mississippi State told school compliance officials in January that quarterback Cam Newton and his father each admitted in separate phone conversations that his college choice would be about money, ESPN's Joe Schad reports. The sources said that prior to Newton's commitment to Auburn, Cecil Newton said it would take "more than a scholarship" to get his son to that school and that a third party could provide specifics. Newton was told the school would not meet such a request, according to the sources, who say the information was relayed to SEC officials. An emotional Cam Newton is said to have later called another Mississippi State recruiter to express regret over changing his commitment to the school but that his father chose Auburn because "the money was too much."

The SEC motto..."if you ain't cheatin', you ain't competin"

So..."SEC officials" have known about the Cam Newton auction for some time apparently. Hope Dad is proud of what he has done to his son.

And let's see how Auburn University is held to account.


I think you could substitute "SEC" motto, with Big Ten, ACC, Big 12 yada yada yada.

Again, the key to avoiding violations is avoiding proper cause for them to investigate you. Because if they investigated every program in the country, everyone would be on probation.

Accepting money from agents is so commonplace it's not funny. Maybe even more commonplace than accepting handjobs from the hot coeds (preferences found out in advance) that accompany them along on their official visits.

This is worse than the steroid issue in baseball, in the sense we all knew what was going on as bulbous heads catapulted stats right in front of our eyes, but we esentially chose not to really care. One look at the athletic parking lot at any big school tells you all you need to know. Hell, one look at some of these guys who came from nothing literally having "illegal" stamped on their foreheads in the form of a grand in tatoos ought to tell us something.

It's on now, they got this cat pegged, and he's undeafeated and a Heisman guy. So, here comes the media. They've got their story, while 100 other division one programs whistle and stare at the ground, because they know how it is.

And Auburn will be busted, while a dozen or so other teams, with guys on the payroll, jostle for their vacated position.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:43 am

leadpipe wrote:
wiz1001 wrote:This should just about do it...

http://es.pn/8Yd28k

Two sources who recruit for Mississippi State told school compliance officials in January that quarterback Cam Newton and his father each admitted in separate phone conversations that his college choice would be about money, ESPN's Joe Schad reports. The sources said that prior to Newton's commitment to Auburn, Cecil Newton said it would take "more than a scholarship" to get his son to that school and that a third party could provide specifics. Newton was told the school would not meet such a request, according to the sources, who say the information was relayed to SEC officials. An emotional Cam Newton is said to have later called another Mississippi State recruiter to express regret over changing his commitment to the school but that his father chose Auburn because "the money was too much."

The SEC motto..."if you ain't cheatin', you ain't competin"

So..."SEC officials" have known about the Cam Newton auction for some time apparently. Hope Dad is proud of what he has done to his son.

And let's see how Auburn University is held to account.


I think you could substitute "SEC" motto, with Big Ten, ACC, Big 12 yada yada yada.

Again, the key to avoiding violations is avoiding proper cause for them to investigate you. Because if they investigated every program in the country, everyone would be on probation.

Accepting money from agents is so commonplace it's not funny. Maybe even more commonplace than accepting handjobs from the hot coeds (preferences found out in advance) that accompany them along on their official visits.

This is worse than the steroid issue in baseball, in the sense we all knew what was going on as bulbous heads catapulted stats right in front of our eyes, but we esentially chose not to really care. One look at the athletic parking lot at any big school tells you all you need to know. Hell, one look at some of these guys who came from nothing literally having "illegal" stamped on their foreheads in the form of a grand in tatoos ought to tell us something.

It's on now, they got this cat pegged, and he's undeafeated and a Heisman guy. So, here comes the media. They've got their story, while 100 other division one programs whistle and stare at the ground, because they know how it is.

And Auburn will be busted, while a dozen or so other teams, with guys on the payroll, jostle for their vacated position.


Then how did OSU come out so clean relatively speaking when they launched a full scale investigation in 03?

I think you are wrong in that you seem to be insinuating that everyone cheats just as much or in the same ways.

The way it gets done cleanly is completely separated from the institution IMO.

I think there is money changing hands to players all over the country, but that does NOT confirm that it is WITHIN the institution or that say, OSU is brokering 200k payments to secure commitments. That's a hell of a lot different than agents paying kids 1000 a month stipend like that si.com article, or boosters making arrangements with local or OOS dealerships for kids to drive those cars you mentioned.

I do absolutely believe that there are varying degrees to which this cheating happens, and that IF you wanted to group conferences in lieu of individual schools, that conferences certainly would be no where near even stevens on the matter.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:18 am

I mean Its like one person I've heard say, if the Big Ten cheats as much as the SEC, then the SEC sure isn't very good at it.

Maybe they ought to come hire some of the handlers we use to get these things done and buried.

Notable exception being the UM BBall program. No need to hire those guys. lol.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:04 pm

leadpipe wrote:
I think you could substitute "SEC" motto, with Big Ten, ACC, Big 12 yada yada yada.

Again, the key to avoiding violations is avoiding proper cause for them to investigate you. Because if they investigated every program in the country, everyone would be on probation.

Accepting money from agents is so commonplace it's not funny. Maybe even more commonplace than accepting handjobs from the hot coeds (preferences found out in advance) that accompany them along on their official visits.

This is worse than the steroid issue in baseball, in the sense we all knew what was going on as bulbous heads catapulted stats right in front of our eyes, but we esentially chose not to really care. One look at the athletic parking lot at any big school tells you all you need to know. Hell, one look at some of these guys who came from nothing literally having "illegal" stamped on their foreheads in the form of a grand in tatoos ought to tell us something.

It's on now, they got this cat pegged, and he's undeafeated and a Heisman guy. So, here comes the media. They've got their story, while 100 other division one programs whistle and stare at the ground, because they know how it is.

And Auburn will be busted, while a dozen or so other teams, with guys on the payroll, jostle for their vacated position.


Suffice to say, the Lead Man is slightly more cynical (or is it realistic?) than I about the state of college athletics. I don't think the only thing preventing similar stories from coming out about every major program is the event of an NCAA investigation.

Unless, that is, you are equating incidents like Troy Smith taking $500 in pizza and beer money from a booster unconnected with the school or the coaching staff...with a prospective player's dad demanding $200,000 from a program's recruiting staff in return for a letter of intent from his son. Granted, they represent two extremes of the same problem...overzealous boosters and the nefarious influence of money in college sports......but there is both the matter of scale, and the matter of complicity by at least some members of the coaching staff or others within the program in bringing it about.

Newton's dad appears to have had no problem proposing his demands directly to the Miss. St. coaching staff. Why should we believe he handled it any differently with the Auburn people?

Also...let's not confuse the type of violations we're talking about here. Junior or senior NFL prospects accepting front money from agents is a whole lot different (no less serious in compromising their "amateur" status...just totally different) from the kind of buying of players LOI's by the college programs themselves that the Auburn program is apparently guilty of. The former doesn't necessarily implicate the school or the program (unless, as with UNC, a coach is involved) while the latter absolutely does.

At a minimum, it requires the coaching/recruiting staff to take a "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" approach to making sure the boosters know what needs to be done

It's already a six-figure inducement to play football just in the 4-year free ride alone...or in Newton's case, two, or even just one year. (It seems wrong to even use the word "scholarship" in talking about the Newton case, doesn't it?)

But I don't believe for a minute that payments of the type Newton's dad demanded are commonplace in today's college game.

Maybe that just makes me naive. If so, let me keep living in my bubble of ignorance.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:11 pm

That was exactly what I was saying Wiz, you stated it much more eloquently.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:05 am

Never said that wasn't varying degrees, and this one is certainly more aggrecious than most. But palms are getting greased all day, every day in collegiate athletics.

And, as far as differenciating the conferences JCoz, that's on a year to year basis based on the quality of recruits and those who surround them. This Auburn deal with a Dad being on the take....the amount of "Dads" and "Uncles" that, ahem, represent some of these guys...Good recruit from a good family, good recruit from a bad family - there's your difference, all depends where they land.

As far as "investigations" go, I wonder how much effort it takes to glance in the athletic parking lots? How much investigating would it take to look at the living conditions of immediate family? And this is to my point, it's going on, we all know it, but we don't really care. An afterthought.

I, and many of my friends came from middle class families. And pretty much every damn one of us had to scrape up cash in college for Ramen noodles and beer. A new car, tattos, earrings and jewelery - I think those were a little out of the question. Amazing how they are doing it when many are coming from dirt poor backgrounds. So, yes, a quarter million in advance is an exception, but illegal payments are much more a rule.

We won't even get into other nonsense, such as the recommended "athletic" achedule with hand-picked friendly instructors, who may be a little lax on their grading and attendance numbers....
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 am

leadpipe wrote:We won't even get into other nonsense, such as the recommended "athletic" achedule with hand-picked friendly instructors, who may be a little lax on their grading and attendance numbers....


I got you on alot of that lead, although I believe the SEC to be the industry leader.

I mean I'm just saying I think there is an AWFUL lot of variation here. Cars and $100 dollar handshakes and jobs you don't have to show up for (or if you do is an inordinate amount of pay given), those I think all happen at OSU.

But 200k LOI's?!? or actually ANY payments for LOI's and payments brokered THROUGH the staff and university, not only don't I see that going on at OSU, I think that particularly is something that is only going on is select places......

For instance places where someone is flat out comfortable asking multiple CFB staffs for a sweet cash topping on his scholly sundae.......I mean I sincerely doubt Cecil and Cam had the audacity to just make that up on their own, IMO someone showed them the ropes, that it was the way it could be done - if you are in the know.

You dont just cold call that sales pitch to places you dont already know are receptive to the idea IMO.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:21 pm

JCoz wrote:
leadpipe wrote:We won't even get into other nonsense, such as the recommended "athletic" achedule with hand-picked friendly instructors, who may be a little lax on their grading and attendance numbers....

I got you on alot of that lead, although I believe the SEC to be the industry leader.

I mean I'm just saying I think there is an AWFUL lot of variation here. Cars and $100 dollar handshakes and jobs you don't have to show up for (or if you do is an inordinate amount of pay given), those I think all happen at OSU.

But 200k LOI's?!? or actually ANY payments for LOI's and payments brokered THROUGH the staff and university, not only don't I see that going on at OSU, I think that particularly is something that is only going on is select places......

For instance places where someone is flat out comfortable asking multiple CFB staffs for a sweet cash topping on his scholly sundae.......I mean I sincerely doubt Cecil and Cam had the audacity to just make that up on their own, IMO someone showed them the ropes, that it was the way it could be done - if you are in the know.

You dont just cold call that sales pitch to places you dont already know are receptive to the idea IMO.


That has the wring of truth to it for sure. I just wonder, though, if Cam and Cecil might be that audacious/stupid or whatever you want to call it. It sure sounds like they made that exact same cold call to Mississippii, didn't they?
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:25 pm

When Pryor opens his mouth, nothing good can ever come from it. Particularly if he is commenting on controversial topics involving other athletes.

Pryor on Newton:

"I think that’s bologna. The way the kids playing, he’s playing well, leading the nation in total touchdowns. If he wouldn’t be doing that, would anybody have said anything, whether the allegations are true or not? That’s going to be the story. Let kids be kids. They’re young men trying to play; we’re young men trying to play. We’re just trying to have fun. Whether the allegations are true or not, they wouldn’t have come out, I don’t care what anybody says, if he wasn’t doing well. Why would you try to bring somebody down? I guess what’s right is right. If he did it, he did it. He’s a young man, and I think they should just play man instead of bringing all this nonsense in."


Jesus H kid, do yourself a favor and just shut the hell up.

For those that have trouble comprehending Pryors quotes (although with SD here everyone who tries gets ample training in these types of translation) ......allow me to roughly translate his view of the Cam Newton saga via images:

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Image

Image

Image
Last edited by JCoz on Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:51 pm

In spite of my earlier comment about my "bubble", I don't consider myself exactly a Pollyanna about what goes on in college athletics. I'll qualify that by adding that OSU is the program I am most familiar with, and I don't think I'd get too much disagreement if I said I think Tressel runs a program that is cleaner than most....so that undoubtedly skews my thinking about LP's take that...

"a quarter million in advance is an exception, but illegal payments are much more a rule."

But, all disclaimers aside...Really? Illegal payments to college football players are the rule, not the exception?

Again...using OSU as my frame of reference...the only two incidents at OSU in the Tressel decade that we know about are Clarett's SUV and Troy Smith's $500 in "walking around money". MoC's college career ended over his violation and Smith got a multi-game suspension. If illegal payments are the rule, there must be literally hundreds of OSU players whose illegal payments have gone undetected, unreported and unpunished in the last ten years. I simply don't buy that.

Not trying to be confrontational, LP, and I respect your take on the issue, but I'm wondering if it's based on anything beyond your own "sense" of how things are. Do you think that an athletic department that employs four full-time attorneys to oversee NCAA compliance, and to relentlessly meet with, and train and counsel and advise players about what they can and cannot do, and insist that they immediately report any attempt by outsiders or boosters to violate the rules...and which employs armies of various advisors, counselors and assistants...in addition to using fellow-players to watch over and monitor class attendance and rules compliance... doesn't have, for example, someone occasionally taking a look around the player parking lot to see what kinds of vehicles the players from "disadvantaged" backgrounds are driving? Or that they are then winking at, or ignoring the possible violations of NCAA rules that they do see?

Illegal payments to players are the rule, not the exception?...and we don't care? That's a view that's hard to square with all the above "caring".

Do you know how many, or which players, for example, are driving "new cars"? I don't. If they are driving new cars, is it reasonable to assume that some players' families, freed up by full scholarships from the obligations of paying $20,000 a year for OSU tuition, room and board, might be able to swing a $200/month car payment for their sons to have a vehicle on campus? I've seen some of the cars the OSU players drive. My sense is most of the kids who do have cars are driving used ones.

The rules about players' jobs during the school year are very restrictive and include plenty of monitoring and enforcement mechanisms (see link below) including prohibiting them being paid more for a certain type of work than what is the standard rate for the same work by non-players, etc.

http://www.stanford.edu/~islander/jobrules.html

Again, not a Pollyanna. I'm sure there are NCAA rules being broken every day in CFB, and that there are illegal financial inducements being given to the families of certain high profile recruits from time to time (and assistant coach jobs for H.S. coaches, etc) I would submit though, that there is way too much on the line for the top tier programs for them to "not care" about such things, and to ignore them or brush them off as a cost of doing business.

The fact we're even discussing it here means we fans do care about it.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:16 pm

JCoz wrote:When Pryor opens his mouth, nothing good can ever come from it. Particularly if he is commenting on controversial topics involving other athletes.

Pryor on Newton:

"I think that’s bologna. The way the kids playing, he’s playing well, leading the nation in total touchdowns. If he wouldn’t be doing that, would anybody have said anything, whether the allegations are true or not? That’s going to be the story. Let kids be kids. They’re young men trying to play; we’re young men trying to play. We’re just trying to have fun. Whether the allegations are true or not, they wouldn’t have come out, I don’t care what anybody says, if he wasn’t doing well. Why would you try to bring somebody down? I guess what’s right is right. If he did it, he did it. He’s a young man, and I think they should just play man instead of bringing all this nonsense in."


Jesus H kid, do yourself a favor and just shut the hell up.


FWIW, most of the writers and former players who have a Heisman vote have been saying over the last couple of days that the allegations about Newton will not affect their votes. For my part, I don't think Newton is, or should be, a Heisman lock, even if Auburn keeps winning. But neither do I think he should be punished for his father's greed or his school's cheating.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:40 pm

I didn't know they have those rules on jobs, wiz.

I definitley agree on those classes, the way things have gone down academically recently, OSU certainly doesn't turn a blind eye there.

Small, Wells, Hall, Carter are just recent examples. Small had a babysitter ushering him to and from class by the end of his stay. The ones after were either suspended for an entire year or respectfully shown the door, while all being at positions with critical depth in a year with the highest of expectations.

I know grad students continually check the attendance and report it to Tress IIRC.

It would be pretty tough though to police $100 handshakes.

I feel that tress runs a fairly clean program, do you remember or can you compare your thoughts on what the program under Coop was like?
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:44 pm

wiz1001 wrote:FWIW, most of the writers and former players who have a Heisman vote have been saying over the last couple of days that the allegations about Newton will not affect their votes. For my part, I don't think Newton is, or should be, a Heisman lock, even if Auburn keeps winning. But neither do I think he should be punished for his father's greed or his school's cheating.


Why should it affect it? You can retroactively take it away, but you can't change the vote once its in. As of now, he's probably in 1st, and if he is the best player then he should be voted as such.

Unless the NCAA makes a definitive statement I dont see how a voter could factor these things in.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Cease » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:00 pm

Leadman's take on the scale of this infestation is dead on. Rampant hand-jobs, for sure. I wonder how many Heisman winners were on the take when they were in school...

Also wish journalists would reveal the sources here, especially when the source on this is as interesting (if not more-so) than the inappropriate actions of Newton. At first, this felt like a witch hunt on Newton. Now, it seems someone has Cam in their sights for a kill shot. I just wonder who's pulling the trigger.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:04 pm

http://bucknuts.com/index.php/past-recr ... d-150.html

The above link is to a Bucknuts summary of the last 15 years or so of OSU recruiting classes, complete with comments about how the classes worked out in hindsight. I posted it here once not too long ago because seeing it reminded me of how JT has upgraded the caliber of kid that is coming to OSU in the Tressel era.

All you have to do is go back and look at the last two classes recruited by Cooper (1999 and 2000) to see the difference. Notice that five kids in one of those years, and six kids in the other...which amounts to approx. 25% of each recruiting class...were academic casualties and never even enrolled at OSU. That happens with about one player every two or three years lately....not five or six per year.

See also the notes on guys like Marco Cooper and Andrew Lee from those classes. When was the last time we saw players arrested for drugs...or rape...or gun charges?

It's worth noting that the school has upgraded their entrance requirements across the board considerably since the start of the Cooper years, so even if he wanted to, Tressel couldn't have gotten many of the kids into OSU that Cooper recruited successfully. But you also have to give Tressel credit for the huge strides the football program has made in academics since he's been here...They consistently lead the Big Ten in All-Academic performers, as just one example.

I know that doesn't speak to cheating or illegal inducements to players under Cooper versus under Tressel, and I know that was the question, Coz. But it does speak to the ways JT has cleaned up the program in general.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:22 pm

I just read the worst Wetzel article I've seen from him. It takes the LP's opinion to the extreme.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-newton110410

I'm going to go ahead and blow the whistle on why I think this take is ridiculous.

Its the smaller schools whose alum/boosters can't afford to buy high profile athletes in this scenario (in this day and age)....in this day and age where having an athlete and record like Auburns is so lucrative for the school, does anyone really think that those who couldn't afford to play this game wouldn't be blowing whistles every damn week?

We would have 3-4 Cam newton/Albert means stories per year.

You saw the fight the non-BCS schools put up to get a slice of the BCS pie? They took it to congress.

Now you think the BSU's and Utah's and Baylors or whoevers of the world would stand by watching Texas, Ohio State and Florida buy athlete after athlete raking in that dough unabated?

Now IMO,THAT'S Naive.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:28 pm

Cease wrote:Leadman's take on the scale of this infestation is dead on...


No offense meant...but...it's "dead on" based on what? Is there some evidence...or an argument...or some contemporaneous experience...or a first-hand source...or something more than your flat assertion that it's dead on?

I'm not beyond persuasion, and I'm definitely open to considering evidence that this infestation you speak of with such certainty is systemic and widespread. I just haven't seen it yet.

I'm not saying your case can't be made. I'm just saying you haven't made it.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:50 pm

The Wetzel piece is virtually fact-free. It's not "reporting" by any stretch of the term.

Only the naive or the willfully blind don't see that this huge cash payment, that is yet completely unproven, and is denied by both the school and the player's family, is not only real...but it is the established norm, and is done routinely throughout the college football universe...and has been for years.

A massive conspiracy of silence by every single person associated with this vast illegal enterprise exists, that prevents (for decades, remember) anyone from coming forward to expose it and tell the horrible corrupt truth.

Damn those suits.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:07 pm

Henton tried to have sex with a hooker, but she was really a cop.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:17 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Henton tried to have sex with a hooker, but she was really a cop.


Didn't he only have like 2 bucks in his pocket? ::doh:: Who was his broker? Guess he was one of the have-nots in this scenario.....yeah, I'm sure those guys would NEVER, NEVER be jaded about their quarter-million dollar buddies on the take....cough cough, I mean team.

One of the funniest athlete/hooker stories ever, though. :lmfao:
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:18 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Henton tried to have sex with a hooker, but she was really a cop.



You can be both:

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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Cease » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:38 pm

wiz1001 wrote:
Cease wrote:Leadman's take on the scale of this infestation is dead on...


No offense meant...but...it's "dead on" based on what? Is there some evidence...or an argument...or some contemporaneous experience...or a first-hand source...or something more than your flat assertion that it's dead on?

I'm not beyond persuasion, and I'm definitely open to considering evidence that this infestation you speak of with such certainty is systemic and widespread. I just haven't seen it yet.

I'm not saying your case can't be made. I'm just saying you haven't made it.


No offense taken, I'm simply in agreement with the assertion that hands are out and players are greased. Probably in the alleys behind booster meeting halls. With schools left to police themselves, competitive programs and coaches on the brink are tempted to see/hear no evil.

To your point wiz, I also think that a 200k kick is likely out of the norm.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:13 pm

Cease wrote:
wiz1001 wrote:
Cease wrote:Leadman's take on the scale of this infestation is dead on...


No offense meant...but...it's "dead on" based on what? Is there some evidence...or an argument...or some contemporaneous experience...or a first-hand source...or something more than your flat assertion that it's dead on?

I'm not beyond persuasion, and I'm definitely open to considering evidence that this infestation you speak of with such certainty is systemic and widespread. I just haven't seen it yet.

I'm not saying your case can't be made. I'm just saying you haven't made it.


No offense taken, I'm simply in agreement with the assertion that hands are out and players are greased. Probably in the alleys behind booster meeting halls. With schools left to police themselves, competitive programs and coaches on the brink are tempted to see/hear no evil.

To your point wiz, I also think that a 200k kick is likely out of the norm.
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Wiz, don't sweat being confrontational. This isn't "Andy Marte getting jobbed" confrontational. It's good talk.

Look, I agree with much of what you say, but I believe what I say as well, as strange as that sounds. There is much that is a matter of degree here.

To expound on "not caring," perhaps too literal, better said, not interested? Apathetic? Look at a couple examples many were exposed to. In best sellers "Friday Night Lights" and "The Blind Side" there are sections of the book that mention what was offered to big recruits. Not the focus of either book, kinda just footnotes, but if we TRULY cared about cheating, wouldn't those accounts strike a larger chord? They busted Brian Bosworth's balls and treated him like Canseco when he claimed the Oklahoma athletic parking area looked like a car dealership, among other things. And no matter what kind of rat they made the guy out to be, much of what he claimed was indisputable, including the fact that the Oklahoma athletic lot indeed looked like a car dealership. And, if you saw the 30 for 30 this week on Marcus Dupree, you saw his mom get fixed up with a brand new "double wide" by her request. Gotta listen closely though, cause they really don't expound on how that deal went down....Strange that University missed Jameil Holloway's mink. Musta been under the same system as USC, oblivious to a nice house or two.

These just off the top of my head, but if you wanna here some absolute classics, my aunt had an excellent position at the University of Georgia, spanning pre Herschel Walker till about 1990....under well respected coaches....

Lastly, I'd say MAJOR violations are not the rule. I think, based on what a student athlete is truly supposed to receive, that it is the rule that benefits go beyond what the average person believes to be fair and just.

Again, the root of the problem, as with many of the problems springing up in this world, is bad parenting. What grew this out to a quarter million was a Dad willing to pimp his own boy. Difference between the kid receiving a few thousand from an agent, and this disaster. Or, with a really good parent, perhaps it's on the up and up.

So, the talk about different percentages, degrees and all that - I don't claim to know exacts, I've certainly seen enough to say, cheating is rampant in collegiate athletics.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:10 pm

Thanks, LP. It is good talk.

I think we can agree that there's a more critical eye on these kinds of practices today than there was when Barry Switzer was running the Sooners, for sure. In the Newton case, what we know is that at least one school, Miss. St., said no to the cash demand, and reported the violation...(someone really should clue them in on Weitzel's secret, no-tell conspiracy to buy recruits at the suits' secret auction) We think we know what Auburn did, but time will tell.

And you're right about no one having much of an appetite for punishing violators, especially in a case like this when talented kid gets hurt (no matter what happens from here) and he doesn't seem to be an arrogant jerk like Clarett, who always had his own hand out. It was Dad's hand.

The solicitation of MSU is itself an NCAA violation, so Newton could become ineligible. If the NCAA finds Auburn guilty of something (we should know all this by about 2014) and is punished, it should serve to deter this particular practice at least. Too easy to track money these days to hide it for long...once people are looking.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:19 pm

Might be worthy of it's own thread, but what about that 30 for 30, "The Best that Never Was" regarding DuPree.

I mean, aside from the age old 'talent wasted' story to a degree, what about the fact that after all is said and done the hook up he gets for work is from the white sheriff implicated in the death of the three black kids in Philly, MS.

I thought that special was as well done as any of them. I had to watch it twice because I've got the flu and have all week and was afraid I passed out in a couple spots.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:29 pm

I have the DuPree doc on the DVR. I caught a few bits and pieces when it was on the other day and it looked like a good one. I don't think I'd ever heard of him before.

That footage of Dupree in high school was crazy. He looked like a giant with coke-bottle glasses running over 7th graders.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 am

I ran into this yesterday. Take it for what it's worth, but linked is an extensive amount of information regarding Auburn and Cam. Here is a small excerpt from the end of the post. Incredible level of cheating, if this is true.

The FBI has been investigating Colonial Bank and Louder for a number
of possible violations in the financial market crash which are
unrelated to AU. Part of the investigation involved gambling fraud
between McGregor and Colonial Bank. Something called the Rico Stature
allowed the justice department to set up wiretaps on Colonial Bank.
On the wiretaps the FBI found major AU recruiting infractions involving
Louder, McGregor, Dye, Trooper, boosters and others.
Here’s what they say the FBI has on tape and can prove AU did:

• The people above are on tape explaining who they paid and how they did it.
• It involves many AU players
• Providing unmarked Colonial Bank ATM cards to players to withdraw
money from secret accounts.
• Giving “slot machine cards” to the players, which now involves the
Alabama Gaming Commission.
• Provided improper loans to some of the families in our last and
current recruiting class.
• The NCAA “strongly” recommended that AU sit Cam for GA. game because
of the mounting evidence.
• President Grogue wanted to sit Cam but was overruled by Louder and
the Board of Trustees.
• Coach Chizik knows none of this and has been lied to by Jacobs.
• The people named above know the S%#& is going to hit the fan “big
time” and have decided “we’re going down” so lets win the title even
if they take it away later.
• Slive knew about this early and sat on the information and is also
in the “crosshairs” of the FBI..
• The corruption is so deep at the highest level (trustees) that AU
will be evicted from kicked out of the SEC.
• This will be revealed by the end of the week.

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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:00 am

Tiger fans better enjoy this year now, because they're about to get the hammer.

Is this a "death penalty" candidate?
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:37 am

the FBI part is really interesting and just a cool story, because it was unintentional (as alleged)

I have my popcorn ready for this one, this makes Reggie's deal look like a $500 handshake.

:pop:
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:59 am

WarAdmiral wrote:Something called the Rico Stature
allowed the justice department to set up wiretaps on Colonial Bank.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:19 pm

What I get out of this is motherscratcher is one lazy bastard in not developing the "8-yr old getting tackled" story to the level that bluetuna did with the Auburn story.

And holy shit- that is some serious corruption. Talking Tammany Hall level...

Thanks for the link WarAdmiral
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:43 pm

peeker643 wrote:What I get out of this is motherscratcher is one lazy bastard in not developing the "8-yr old getting tackled" story to the level that bluetuna did with the Auburn story.

And holy shit- that is some serious corruption. Talking Tammany Hall level...

Thanks for the link WarAdmiral


Yah thanks this is CRAZY!!!!

Perfect pick for comparison Peek
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:05 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:• The corruption is so deep at the highest level (trustees) that AU
will be evicted from kicked out of the SEC.


This is where my suspension of disbelief dropped. There are too many closeted skeletons between Baton Rouge and Columbia for the SEC to drop a bomb like that.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:10 pm

Anybody else loving this as much as I am?


Of course you guys aren't. This shit reads like Faulkner to me, it's beauty in print.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:19 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Anybody else loving this as much as I am?


Of course you guys aren't. This shit reads like Faulkner to me, it's beauty in print.



Are you kidding?

I sure as hell am....

You want to fight over who is enjoying this novel more? :spar: lol
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:29 pm

Image



boom.... roasted
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:42 pm

peeker643 wrote:What I get out of this is motherscratcher is one lazy bastard in not developing the "8-yr old getting tackled" story to the level that bluetuna did with the Auburn story.

And holy shit- that is some serious corruption. Talking Tammany Hall level...

Thanks for the link WarAdmiral


Lazy bastard? I'm going to respond to that right after my nap.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:19 pm

So...if I'm reading that right...the President of Auburn University wanted Newton to sit last game, but he was overruled by a Trustee and some people from the Athletic Department? You've got to be kidding me.

After reading just about that whole thread by blueTunaTiger, I'm thinking...Jeez, Lead Man...I take it all back. The scales are falling from Pollyanna's eyes. Jesus, this is big.

The President of the university must be dirty as hell himself, because he could look like a hero if he just pulled the plug on the whole corrupt enterprise that is the football program, knowing it's all going to come crashing down soon anyway.

I did a little research on Bobby Lowder and Milton MacGregor and Colonial BancCorp. These guys are some major scumbags, and they totally run Auburn University athletics.

The casino connections are a nightmare for the NCAA...no, make that fucking kryptonite for them.

Here's a column by Paul Davis, Editor of the Opelika, AL paper...on Lowder, the bank, and his influence on Auburn athletics.

http://bit.ly/czuPBT

The NYT had a piece on Lowder and his corrupt bank too.

I just can't believe the school is planning to just bury all this for the moment, and play the season out with Newton. If they do, or if they don't, the Auburn football program will be going away for a while.

This has to all come out doesn't it?
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:52 pm

danwismar wrote:I just can't believe the school is planning to just bury all this for the moment, and play the season out with Newton. If they do, or if they don't, the Auburn football program will be going away for a while.

This has to all come out doesn't it?




But when does it come out is the question and could play a part in Auburn's thought process behind playing Newton. Regardless of when the hammer drops, it's going to be massive and sitting Newton now won't effect that. So why not roll the dice that you can reap all of the financial benefits of a national title now before the inevitable shit storm?
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:13 pm

They HAVE to lose, because in no way do I wanna watch the title game knowing the whole thing isn't real.

In other words, Auburn gets the ball with 1:30 left on the clock down 4, and "Here's Cam Newton's chance to take the Auburn Tigers to the National Championship with this drive....."

Meanwhile, we all know this isn't the case whether they score or not.

I don't care to watch that game for that reason. MAYBE they are driving for the championship pending NCAA reviews.....no thanks.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:But when does it come out is the question and could play a part in Auburn's thought process behind playing Newton. Regardless of when the hammer drops, it's going to be massive and sitting Newton now won't effect that. So why not roll the dice that you can reap all of the financial benefits of a national title now before the inevitable shit storm?


I get the "all in" strategy by Auburn. But I'm doubting there will be any financial benefits, because people will know what's coming.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:19 pm

danwismar wrote:So...if I'm reading that right...the President of Auburn University wanted Newton to sit last game, but he was overruled by a Trustee and some people from the Athletic Department? You've got to be kidding me.

After reading just about that whole thread by blueTunaTiger, I'm thinking...Jeez, Lead Man...I take it all back. The scales are falling from Pollyanna's eyes. Jesus, this is big.

The President of the university must be dirty as hell himself, because he could look like a hero if he just pulled the plug on the whole corrupt enterprise that is the football program, knowing it's all going to come crashing down soon anyway.

I did a little research on Bobby Lowder and Milton MacGregor and Colonial BancCorp. These guys are some major scumbags, and they totally run Auburn University athletics.

The casino connections are a nightmare for the NCAA...no, make that fucking kryptonite for them.

Here's a column by Paul Davis, Editor of the Opelika, AL paper...on Lowder, the bank, and his influence on Auburn athletics.

http://bit.ly/czuPBT

The NYT had a piece on Lowder and his corrupt bank too.

I just can't believe the school is planning to just bury all this for the moment, and play the season out with Newton. If they do, or if they don't, the Auburn football program will be going away for a while.

This has to all come out doesn't it?


I know Wiz I thought the same thing regarding the LP's view.

But I had gotten some rather disappointing info not 2 days after the discussion which greased the wheels for this disaster as far as shock value goes.

The Wiz man dropping f-bombs, yeah, It is that kind of story.

The FBI involvement is key, that was what allot of us were wondering anyways and now we know.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:53 pm

danwismar wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:But when does it come out is the question and could play a part in Auburn's thought process behind playing Newton. Regardless of when the hammer drops, it's going to be massive and sitting Newton now won't effect that. So why not roll the dice that you can reap all of the financial benefits of a national title now before the inevitable shit storm?


I get the "all in" strategy by Auburn. But I'm doubting there will be any financial benefits, because people will know what's coming.




You and I see it that way, sure, but have you been to Auburn lately? That crew will blow a months pay on Dale Earnhart ash trays and velvet Elvis out of a 1 pump gas station. Add that to the fact that they are delusional as shit and really think Auburn is completely innocent in all of this, Lowder and Dye are sitting on a goldmine.
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Re: Cam Newton: Criminal Mastermind

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:18 pm

A little comic relief...a nice remake of "The Son of a Preacher Man"

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