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Is Rock N' Roll dead?

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Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:12 pm

I pose this with the thought in mind that over all, that I really don't consider a lot of the bands out there, that happen to play guitar/drums/bass "Rock". And yeah, I don't define this as some underground garage band who does not get airplay. I'm talking mainstream stuff that would get airplay on the radio.

I know I didn't live when a lot of my favorite bands were in existence, but rock music to me, seems a lot more "safe" and politically correct, than a lot of the songs that were out pre-cobain suicide. I also see the term "Rock star" tossed out there quite often without any real basis to the fact that they were in some form of a band. Is Rhianna on par with say, Axl Rose and Slash? Russel Brand with, Keith Moon and David Lee Roth?

It just seems to me, that rock n' roll as we knew it is quite dead, and if not dead, in some sort of deep terry schiavo like coma.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jfiling » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:59 pm

If you mean blues-based guitar driven with lyrics based on getting laid (like Rock N' Roll has been for the last 50 years), then yeah, it's pretty much dead. Damn shame, too, but then again those damn kids won't stay off my lawn.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:52 pm

Not while Chuck berry is still alive

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby hebner20 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:38 pm

not according to Neil Young but yes, it is basically dead.

when i was growing up in the 70's there were 3 distinct popular music genres rock, country and motown. those genres may have had some sub genres but those 3 were basically it. for at least 20 years top 40 "pop" stations have been playing all sorts of music country, rock, motown and then add rap/hip hop, grunge, metal, metal with rap influences and other stuff i don't understand. there are many reason why music is being destroyed besides the audience fragmentation. Another big reason is the destruction of the artist's ability to get paid for their work in the digital age.

for the life of me i don't understand why the well established big acts that have huge followings don't vertically integrate and eliminate the need for record companies. they already record at home studios so why don't they offer digital downloads of music and "liner" notes right from their already existing web sites for $5. I am pretty sure $5 is more than they get from record/CD deals any ways. it would be a win-win situation and people would probably actually pay for their product. who the heck is going to drop $20 for a cd?

good luck with your quest to find an answer. i stopped listening to the radio years ago.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:08 am

Rock and roll is clearly dead. It came to an end with grunge rock, people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are.

Then came post grunge, which is people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are. Except these fucks all sound alike. There are basically 40 or 50 bands with 3 or 4 vocal tones. If they played a new song and your radio didn't display who it was, you'd never figure out who the hell was playing it.

And the shit will NOT go away. I think we're still going to be puking to Creed wannabe's 20 years from now.

And the dog shit they're calling country music is even worse. The songs are so mind numbing simple, you just want to choke the writer. "IWe like to get drunk and if you don't like that we don't give a damn." How old are they, eight? And I hope these broads are hot, because I have heard prettier grinders.

Then you have the stuff they use for bumper music on the RBS. Andy Dick thinks that shit is gay.

Hey dick heads. We had alternative music in the 70's. Yeah. We called it PUNK. You didn't invent shit.

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:43 am

Yes. As a mass, popular, art form.

And so is hip hop.

Both are like jazz now. Once the dominant American cultural musical expression now kept alive underground by only a few really pure acts. So they aren't dead so much as irrelevant.

Narrowcasting and the Americanidolization of America killed both. That, and how do you really develop anything new, groundbreaking and different in the art form?

On to the next one.
Last edited by jb on Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:45 am

hebner20 wrote:
for the life of me i don't understand why the well established big acts that have huge followings don't vertically integrate and eliminate the need for record companies.



That was on the to-do list, but unfortunately it was right after getting high and nailing supermodels & hot groupies.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:49 am

Spin wrote:Rock and roll is clearly dead. It came to an end with grunge rock, people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are.



I know this isn't NHB'd, but you and I have a past history of being able to throw some elbows and then getting up and shaking hands and letting bygones be.

So I just want to add that you're an idiot.

Grunge got formulaic and boring to be certain, but then again, all genres of the dead art form did. For example, Flea and Kiedis unfortunately are responsible for Fred Durst in some ways. The Beatles gave us the Monkeys. Judas Priest's sound helped give us all the shitty hair bands. Bill Bellichich gave the NFL McDaniels. oops, wrong forum. That shit happens. If you don't think Mudhoney or even popular, commercial acts like Pearl Jam aren't quality R&R, the only reasonably sane explanation is you're still in MOm's basement surrounded by Warrent and Cindarella posters.

Grunge didn't kill R & R. It was the last thing R & R crossed off on it's bucket list before it took a header off the Y-Bridge.

And as loathsome as Scott Stapp is, and I agree, his fingerprints aren't on the weapon. But Sean Parker's, Simon Cowell's, and Michael Eisner's are. Maybe Mutt Lang's, too.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:21 pm

jb wrote:
Spin wrote:Rock and roll is clearly dead. It came to an end with grunge rock, people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are.


I know this isn't NHB'd, but you and I have a past history of being able to throw some elbows and then getting up and shaking hands and letting bygones be.

So I just want to add that you're an idiot.

Grunge got formulaic and boring to be certain, but then again, all genres of the dead art form did. For example, Flea and Kiedis unfortunately are responsible for Fred Durst in some ways. The Beatles gave us the Monkeys. Judas Priest's sound helped give us all the shitty hair bands. Bill Bellichich gave the NFL McDaniels. oops, wrong forum. That shit happens. If you don't think Mudhoney or even popular, commercial acts like Pearl Jam aren't quality R&R, the only reasonably sane explanation is you're still in MOm's basement surrounded by Warrent and Cindarella posters.

Grunge didn't kill R & R. It was the last thing R & R crossed off on it's bucket list before it took a header off the Y-Bridge.

And as loathsome as Scott Stapp is, and I agree, his fingerprints aren't on the weapon. But Sean Parker's, Simon Cowell's, and Michael Eisner's are. Maybe Mutt Lang's, too.


Maybe it's not grunge's fault. Maybe glam was just played out and nobody was putting anything else that was worth a shit. But it was that point the Seattle sound hit the charts, that the labels jumped on the bandwagon and stopped listening to anything else.

This sound (post grunge) sells, so now that's all the labels want to hear. If you don't sound like Creed, or like Buckcherry, forget being heard. There's no innovation.

And it's the same in R&B, country, all across the dial.

Think of all the genres that came about in the late 60's through late 80's. And bands that weren't ever in a genre they were so unique. Since then?

That's how radio is going too. Even classic rock stations like 97.5 and 98.5 play the same loop of 20 songs. "There goes the last DJ, who plays what he wants to play, and says what he wants to say, hey hey hey. There goes your freedom of choice. There goes the last human voice. There goes the last DJ."
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:30 pm

Spin wrote:Rock and roll is clearly dead. It came to an end with grunge rock, people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are.


The Seattle music scene was the greatest since the British Invasion. There are 3 or 4 of those bands that rank in the top 10 of American rock music. Better recognize.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
Spin wrote:Rock and roll is clearly dead. It came to an end with grunge rock, people whining and bitching about how awful their lives are.


The Seattle music scene was the greatest since the British Invasion. There are 3 or 4 of those bands that rank in the top 10 of American rock music. Better recognize.



Word.

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:10 pm

Grunge was simple, and the kids love simple, especially if it comes with it's own fashion trend. I mean how many sappy hair rock ballads can you listen to?


I never really got into grunge that much, but I saw why people liked it when it broke out. I will say that junkie Cobain feller blowing his head off was one of the coolest parts of the 90's.

Rock never dies, it just mutates.

How can it be dead when we're all waiting with bated breath for the next fuckin Radiohead album to come out?
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:40 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Grunge was simple, and the kids love simple, especially if it comes with it's own fashion trend. I mean how many sappy hair rock ballads can you listen to?


I never really got into grunge that much, but I saw why people liked it when it broke out. I will say that junkie Cobain feller blowing his head off was one of the coolest parts of the 90's.

Rock never dies, it just mutates.

How can it be dead when we're all waiting with bated breath for the next fuckin Radiohead album to come out?


Not to mention Nickelback
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:20 pm

Modest Mouse, Arcade Fire, Radiohead, The White Stripes, The Von Bondies, The Dandy Warhols, Spoon, The Flaming Lips, Franz Ferdinand, The Hives etc etc etc.

Off the top of my head. And I haven't kept up with popular music in probably over half a decade.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:59 pm

jfiling wrote:If you mean blues-based guitar driven with lyrics based on getting laid (like Rock N' Roll has been for the last 50 years), then yeah, it's pretty much dead. Damn shame, too, but then again those damn kids won't stay off my lawn.

These guys feel differently:
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:51 am

Grunge was over rated, a few soild bands, a couple defining songs. It was the music for young kids who needed to be defined because they could not define themselves.

Nothing more than Hootie and the Blowfish with some distortion and volume.

Hell the best thing to happen to the flagship band's legacy was for their main man to off himself, no different than bad artists paintings being noteworthy when they're gone.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:49 am

FUDU wrote:Grunge was over rated, a few soild bands, a couple defining songs. It was the music for young kids who needed to be defined because they could define themselves.

Nothing more than Hootie and the Blowfish with some distortion and volume.

Hell the best thing to happen to the flagship band's legacy was for their main man to off himself, no different than bad artists paintings being noteworthy when they're gone.


You've got to be fucking kidding me with this.

Worst post of the year candidate.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:00 am

Nah just not that memorable approach to a genre, evidenced by the short life span. Depression gets played out quickly in music, and the grunge message was a lazy depression. Plus too obvious with the slow heavy disortion feel, almost like gee duh.

Grunge owes much of its rise to popularity to the suckitude of the 80s music movement at the time.

Not to mention for a genre so about doing it for the jam, they lacked a lot of real true jams.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:36 am

Grunge was top ten, or grunge was a brief fart in pop music, doesn't matter how you look at it.

The labels changed. They no longer take a chance on somebody, unless they sound like somebody popular. So rock is a one lane road. Or they win on "American Karaoke". Basically meaning they have a perfect voice. Imagine Bruce Springsteen or Mick Jagger or Roger Daltrey on that game show...

There's no new sounds, unless you go underground. And who has the time to sift through all the sewage there to find a gem?
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:17 am

FUDU wrote:Grunge was over rated, a few soild bands, a couple defining songs. It was the music for young kids who needed to be defined because they could not define themselves.

Nothing more than Hootie and the Blowfish with some distortion and volume.

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:42 pm

Spin wrote:There's no new sounds, unless you go underground. And who has the time to sift through all the sewage there to find a gem?



Where has all great rock and roll come from? The underground. You're going to come across some turds but if you sit round and wait for someone else to choose your music than you're missing out.

Elvis Costello said it best. "The next big thing that no one hasheard is happening in some kids garage right now....with any luck."
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:03 pm

Grunge was the result of 15 years of the underground punk movement. The masses were prepared and ready for it, when Nirvana hit the stage. The Ramones, Sex Pistols, Patty Smith, Black Flag, The Clash, Television, ect., had laid the groundwork. Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice and Chains, NIN, were very good artists, but without the Punk movement, they never become what they became.

I agree, that it is very hard to find new sounds, but they are out there and a few have made it mainstream. The Black Keys and Cage the Elephant are a couple that come to mind. I spend a couple nights a month, searching for new artists, or bands. Youtube is a goldmine, if you have the time and really love music.

I spent one evening chatting with this artist after finding him on youtube. I ended up buying his CD. His girlfriends father loaned him $8000 to record a 6 song disc. The kids music is wide ranging, similar to Jack White, who is a big influence on his music. One thing I like about the current state of rock, is when you find artist/s you like, they are pretty accessible. Some that tour smaller venues, will meet fans after the show, and most that I have met, are just regular guys, who happen to be gifted with some instruments. It is almost like rock has gone underground in a sense. It isn't dead, but it won't find you, you have to look for it, and enjoy looking for it.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:39 pm

The issue isn't that there is talent. The issue is relevance.

The fact u have to scour u tube and not flick on 100.7 = death of the art form.


As relevant as jazz to aficionado nerds. Dead as a popular art form
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:43 pm

Spin wrote:Grunge was top ten, or grunge was a brief fart in pop music, doesn't matter how you look at it.

The labels changed. They no longer take a chance on somebody, unless they sound like somebody popular. So rock is a one lane road. Or they win on "American Karaoke". Basically meaning they have a perfect voice. Imagine Bruce Springsteen or Mick Jagger or Roger Daltrey on that game show...

There's no new sounds, unless you go underground. And who has the time to sift through all the sewage there to find a gem?

Yes, if only modern music had the diversity of the Manfred Mann Earth Band, Foreigner, Foghat, Bob Seger, and Journey.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:49 pm

jb wrote:The issue isn't that there is talent. The issue is relevance.

The fact u have to scour u tube and not flick on 100.7 = death of the art form.


As relevant as jazz to aficionado nerds. Dead as a popular art form
It's probably more of a general issue with radio as a means to find or listen to music.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:32 pm

The 3 greatest music moments of the 90's were deaths.

1. Kurt Cobain

2. 2Pac.

3. Notorouis Fat Fuck.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:54 am

I'll take CDT for the block.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:00 am

jb wrote:The issue isn't that there is talent. The issue is relevance.

The fact u have to scour u tube and not flick on 100.7 = death of the art form.


As relevant as jazz to aficionado nerds. Dead as a popular art form



I will agree that it is virtually dead, when it comes to popularity. Although, I believe Ipods and MP3 players have put a huge dent into the radio industry, when it comes to music in general. It is why talk radio is so prevalent, IMO.

For a guy like myself, I am loving it. I am going to see one of my favorite bands tonight for $8 in a smaller type venue. The beers are $4, and depending on how things go, I might even get a chance to meet them. It is probably no different than how a fan of punk rock enjoyed his favorite bands in the 80's. I could care less how popular it is with the masses, but it doesn't change that rock is on it's deathbed when it comes to it's former stature with the masses.

I guess it is kind of like how in the 80's. I loved going down the Municipal and buying a $6 ticket, than end up sitting in a $15 seat by the third inning. When the Jake opened, I was screwed and had to pay the piper to see a game. I didn't care all that much about the change, because the product on the field made me feel as if I was getting my dollars worth. Right now, Rock is like the 70 and 80's Indians. Not really dead, but a lot of empty seats.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 pm

I very much agree with JB on this.

It's a bit sad that rock radio has went down this road, All you hear on MMS are either a couple of Howard Stern knockoffs in the morning, and a decent drive home show. And then when music is played, you just simply here the same crap.

In regards to the whole grunge/alternative v. hair metal, to paraphrase Henry Rollins in regards to the 80's Hair Metal movement "I'd much have some guy like Jon Bon Jovi or Bret Michaels screaming out "YOU GUYS LIKE ROCK AND ROLL OUUUUT THERRRRE" versus some douche bag moping on stage going "This song is about children in Nicaragua! Stop smiling!"

I think that's actually what's missing in rock and roll right now as well, not a lot of fun in it any more. Even you could tell that although a group like Alice In Chains was more serious in their subject matters in their songs, they seem like they at least were guys having a good time off and on stage.

I mean, could you ever see any of the more modern rock groups out there doing something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbdMvOwf22M

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:22 pm

Is it the radio stations, or the labels? Either way we're screwed.

There was a time when bands and genres could come out of the underground and get signed to record deals and get on the radio. Those days seem like they're gone.

Sign of the times I guess. Now Maxwell has resurfaced on 98.5, so now there's one less station to listen to for music. What the hell is this fascination with listening to some ass hole talk about himself all morning? Off topic but still, wtf?

MP3's may be hurting the music industry. I know I have several gigs of music on my phone. I can plug in headphones, or plug it into my car stereo, or the stereo in my ambulance at work. I spend more time digitizing CD's than anything else lately. Screw the talk shows, the music shows with their 12 song loops. I'll just listen the hi tech way...
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Spin wrote:Is it the radio stations, or the labels? Either way we're screwed.

There was a time when bands and genres could come out of the underground and get signed to record deals and get on the radio. Those days seem like they're gone.

Sign of the times I guess. Now Maxwell has resurfaced on 98.5, so now there's one less station to listen to for music. What the hell is this fascination with listening to some ass hole talk about himself all morning? Off topic but still, wtf?


I've never understood Maxwell's appeal. Look, Howard Stern is..a genius. Very funny and just was briliant in marketing himself and manufacturing himself. Private Parts clearly showed that

Maxwell?..Really isn't that funny and tries to hard to be "Edgy". He doesn't really make me want to keep listening and his material do as such is quite weak. There's quite a few sports talk shows I'll listen to, where the hosts are quite terrible, but at the very least the topics they cover are interesting.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:58 am

Most of you are thinking your age, regardles of how old you actually are. Unless you happen to be in high school, the world of music we once knew has changed forever. It's not so much that rock is irrelevant - just the mechanism through which we listen. The one true success of the ever-changing business to consumer model is music. Kids today don't listen to what we consider "radio" and they could care less about labels. An artist doesn't need a label anymore. The democratization of music has arrived. It started with Napster and continues with all of the download sites, including the much loathed iTunes, and all of the artists who are releasing straight to consumers without a label. The social network ensures that if something is worth listening to people will discover it.

We should stop trying to define "radio airplay" as MMS. Those days are long dead. The music lives on - you are just looking for it in the wrong places.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:32 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Most of you are thinking your age, regardles of how old you actually are. Unless you happen to be in high school, the world of music we once knew has changed forever. It's not so much that rock is irrelevant - just the mechanism through which we listen. The one true success of the ever-changing business to consumer model is music. Kids today don't listen to what we consider "radio" and they could care less about labels. An artist doesn't need a label anymore. The democratization of music has arrived. It started with Napster and continues with all of the download sites, including the much loathed iTunes, and all of the artists who are releasing straight to consumers without a label. The social network ensures that if something is worth listening to people will discover it.

We should stop trying to define "radio airplay" as MMS. Those days are long dead. The music lives on - you are just looking for it in the wrong places.


Well said.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby hebner20 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:56 pm

Just saw a documentary on Hulu plus that addresses the big picture of the death of music not just rock and roll. It is called before the music dies. If you have Hulu plus do a search for it if you are interested. Not fantastic but good enough to watch on a rainy day.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:53 pm

It's not dead, it just smells funny
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:33 am

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:34 am

“Irony is wasted on the stupid” - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:37 am

This will always be my white girl rhythm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpxygWugxv8
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm

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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:46 am

IDK why you post that, Spin.

I think there's a very valid argument to be made that true instrumental blues based quality RnR is the new jazz & hip hop is the new RnR at least in terms of relevance to a demographic of 15-24.

Audiences at RnR concerts for bands are rising in age and the ages of the relevant talented musicians are as well. Going to concerts was once a social staple of late adolescence and young adulthood. but. From what I can tell thats been on the wane for a while now and not something high schoolers do anymore. Mainstream is almost all formulaic R&B with a hip hop bridge. The NEO-disco from this summer was about as close to musicianship I've heard in a while.

The irony is that RnR as a less relevant art form has never been of higher quality as far as musicianship or writing. BayBoos and poseur music historians like to worship at their sacred alters with closed minds. But for example Janis Joplin couldn't touch the quality of Over the Rhine on her best day. Dawes is flat out better than Bob Dylan. Arcade Fires new work is favorable to vintage Roxy Music.

The new media of downloading and the American Idolization has finally taken a stranglehold on what influences anyone under 25. It's a return to the late 50s early 60s of disposable singles in popular relevant music for the young adult demogrpahic. Meanwhile there's an analogy here for jazz in the 50s and early 60s. Jazz of that era was replaced in social and commercial relevance by the new RnR with youth but jazz as an art form was better than bee bop or big band. It moved into a niche.

The problem is the gene pool does eventually.

BTW when I say hip hop there's the Kanye commercial top 40 and then there's the core underground shit you might find on Shade 45. While under the umbrella of hip hop they are about as similar as Journey & the Buzzcocks back in the day.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 am

That all depends on your definition of rock and roll, which has become an individual preference. The Rock Hall is the perfect example of that.

The genres that grew out of the 50's is what I consider rock and roll. The trunk of the tree. If you follow that to today, it IS still alive, it's called country music.

All this talk and looking for definitions has changed my mind on what rock music exists as today. Today's country should be considered a modern manifestation of rockabilly. It's a fusion of light rock and hillbilly. Think about it, when you can play the Eagles or later Bob Seger on a country station and it fits in (minus the constant redneck references), THAT is rock and roll 2013. It's not a recent fusion either, you could say it's always been there. You had outlaw country in the 60's and 70's, then "young country" with Hank Williams Jr and those groups. On to "new country" with Alabama, into Billy Ray Cyrus, etc. If you follow that route, modern country is the current rock and roll.

You define rock as what the young adult demographic listens to. I don't agree with that definition as a single qualifier. Country certainly fits that definition. I see rap as a sub-genre of R&B, without a lot of the other elements of rock. It does have a driving beat and a lot of it has antisocial underpinnings. But to me, it's out in the branches of rock, looking at how the "pure" rock music has progressed.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:46 am

Spin wrote:You define rock as what the young adult demographic listens to.



Actually I did nothing of the sort.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Spin wrote:That all depends on your definition of rock and roll, which has become an individual preference. The Rock Hall is the perfect example of that.

The genres that grew out of the 50's is what I consider rock and roll. The trunk of the tree. If you follow that to today, it IS still alive, it's called country music.

All this talk and looking for definitions has changed my mind on what rock music exists as today. Today's country should be considered a modern manifestation of rockabilly. It's a fusion of light rock and hillbilly. Think about it, when you can play the Eagles or later Bob Seger on a country station and it fits in (minus the constant redneck references), THAT is rock and roll 2013. It's not a recent fusion either, you could say it's always been there. You had outlaw country in the 60's and 70's, then "young country" with Hank Williams Jr and those groups. On to "new country" with Alabama, into Billy Ray Cyrus, etc. If you follow that route, modern country is the current rock and roll.

You define rock as what the young adult demographic listens to. I don't agree with that definition as a single qualifier. Country certainly fits that definition. I see rap as a sub-genre of R&B, without a lot of the other elements of rock. It does have a driving beat and a lot of it has antisocial underpinnings. But to me, it's out in the branches of rock, looking at how the "pure" rock music has progressed.


Disagree. You started down the right path, IMHO, but lost the thread when you stated that early 50's rock continued to country. I could make exactly the same argument that early rock has now evolved into hip hop/rap. You seem to dismiss the fact that early rock was a combination of delta blues, big band/swing and country. Agree that "rockabilly" (hate that term) may now be modern country, but a lot of early rock came directly from early r&b with out the country influence. YMMV
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Spin » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:56 pm

To me, rock has always had at its core, from the beginning, guitars and drums.

There were elements of several genres of music, but it has always been the beat and the drums. If I had to define rock in a handful of words, that's what comes to my mind. They have been the ingredient of early 50's RnR, through the 60's and 70's, the metal, the glam, the grunge, and the post grunge. And there are still bands out there now playing rock with the guitars and the driving beat. It's just not the style anymore.

The synth bands of the 70's and 80's were out on the fringe of RnR. Even 70's Genesis by that definition. And dance music. Rap to me is a fusion of synth and R&B. On the fringes of RnR.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:13 am

I have Spins back that crossover country is heavy in RR roots. RR isn't just Black music, it has strong white southern influence from Cochran to the King and all the Freedom Rock bands many deride.

But that's not why I called.

See thread title .

If Spin is making the case that RR as we know it has evoked into urban & rural branches he makes a compelling hypothesis. But evolution is still species extinction. A shared ancestral gene pool don't make an elephant a mastodon.

RR is not exclusively defined by instruments but things like measures, chord structures and song writing style.

The points I rest on are these. RR as we know is has never been better. This concept that there is some myth of terminal artistic excellence is false provided the art form has a creative sustainable gene pool (see classical).

Once that gene poll gets too small the art form dies. Given young demogrpahic preferences I put that at 25-40 years. Most 15-24's just don't listen to RR. It's RB hybrid, HipHop and country. Almost zero garage bands compared to the day.

I expect Marshall will be rhyming about SS COLA rates when he's Mick's age.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:42 pm

Spin wrote:To me, rock has always had at its core, from the beginning, guitars and drums.


I think that's fair. Only, in the same way that when you think "bird" you think "flying" but still have pesky category-busters like penguins.

Still, Kanye's right. Switch out "is the new" with "has replaced...as the dominant musical genre for the Yoof of Murca" if you need to; the meaning's the same.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby googleeph2 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Rap took over the voice of protest/outrage 30 years ago, no?

Guitar/drums/melody will always have its niche, as has been said. But its golden era has passed. It's baseball: kids don't really dream of doing it like they used to.

Personally, it feels like we're in a transition period to the next thing.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby jb » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:08 pm

googleeph2 wrote:Rap took over the voice of protest/outrage 30 years ago, no?

Guitar/drums/melody will always have its niche, as has been said. But its golden era has passed. It's baseball: kids don't really dream of doing it like they used to.

Personally, it feels like we're in a transition period to the next thing.


Agree 100% with the first part.

But the next big thing has been here since white kids checking out Run DMC & the B Boys stumbled upon NWA
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:40 pm

Hot funk, cool punk, hell, even if it's old junk, it's still rock and roll to me.
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Re: Is Rock N' Roll dead?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:47 pm

All genres get virtually equal access anymore, that's the key. It's akin to the U.S. post WWII dealing with a global economy.
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