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Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Ziner wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:That list actually makes me dislike the "suck and hope" tactic more than I already did.


I could make a list of Free Agent signings with their number of years and dollars if you would like. Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Darko, and Travis Outlaw might have you thinking differently.


Not worth it. The bottom line is that Superstar Free Agents will not sign here, and even if we draft a Superstar, Free Agents will assume that said Superstar will bolt when he gets the chance. With or without a Superstar, Free Agency will only bring in role players. Drafting is a shot in the dark, but it's still a better option than Free Agency.

The only way to bring in big-name talent to a market like Cleveland is to trade for it, like the past regime did/tried to do. Which is basically renting a player until their contract expires.

While the players are running the league and conspiring to form their own Super Teams in the big media markets, in the NBA of 2010, there is NO recourse (not draft, not free agency, not trades) for smaller market teams that will enable them to build Championship quality rosters. Being Utah Jazzes is all they can realistically hope for.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Ziner wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ziner you are so fucking smart with your lists and stats. Nice work, I wish I wasn't always too stoned or drunk to be able to read or understand them.

I loved the game. Nice to beat the Celtics.


Thanks CDT.


I'm not "always drunk or stoned"...........

I'm just surprised you called Mayo and Westbrook a piece. I think they're both pretty damn good.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Like everybody else I liked the ball movement. Shaq and Z really slowed down the game last year, and then there was that other guy that liked to dribble away the seconds while 4 other guys watched. The Cavs won't win 60 this year, but they should be worth watching.


Cuz they were a featured part of the offense. Like complaining about the cost of a Government toilet, yet having no problem with the bailout. Sorry this is like roadkill I can't not look...

LeBron James was a huge net positive, but LeIso was LeIso. Mike Brown was clueless. 1A, 1B shit here...
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:07 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Ziner wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ziner you are so fucking smart with your lists and stats. Nice work, I wish I wasn't always too stoned or drunk to be able to read or understand them.

I loved the game. Nice to beat the Celtics.


Thanks CDT.


I'm not "always drunk or stoned"...........

I'm just surprised you called Mayo and Westbrook a piece. I think they're both pretty damn good.


I didnt want 15 categories. I wouldnt argue against it, I just went first impression. Westbrook would be the highest ranked "piece", I went with piece because it is Durant's team.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:17 pm

If LeBron was 1 in 10 years, Durant is like 1 in forever... The fact is if OKC drafted LeBron and not Durant no one would talk about the Sonics at all... He would be playing in Miami and everyone would be calling Westbrook and the lot stiffs.

Durant is a godlike player in terms of fan appeal. Guy gets it.

Good to see some people who thought the franchise was folding and moving away have stepped back from the ledge.

IMO this team, if not held hostage by LeBron or stunted by Gilbert giving him everything he wanted, should have made a move on John Salmons. Realistically this team is a John Salmons and Al Jefferson away from being a darkhorse. Those are the types of guys we should be looking for...

They can be had in this market, in this NBA.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:03 pm

Ziner wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:That list actually makes me dislike the "suck and hope" tactic more than I already did.


I could make a list of Free Agent signings with their number of years and dollars if you would like. Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Darko, and Travis Outlaw might have you thinking differently.


Do me a favor and list out all the big name, in their prime, free agents who have come here and really contributed in the past too.

I really do like "Let's Not Suck" as the 2011/2012 team slogan though.

Guess it really beats "Suck and a Prayer".

Seriously, why bother with a franchise at all if it's intent is a comp ticket from someone's casino and not to win a title?


Make the three hour drive and root for the Pistons. You can still hit the casinos there too.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:05 pm

what am I list bitch?

List:

No one.

But really how many have we asked? Maybe we could beg. Or threaten a strongly worded comic sans letter to the media about the player. Hey it could work.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:09 pm

Ziner wrote:what am I list bitch?

List:

No one.

But really how many have we asked? Maybe we could beg. Or threaten a strongly worded comic sans letter to the media about the player. Hey it could work.


Swerb- under Z's name and avatar we have his title: TCF List Bitch

That is all.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:39 pm

Can we agree here that if you really want to WIN, you need a star or two? We're kinda going off on tangents here, but isn't that the bottom line?

And I underestand the points of view here, I understand what Gilbert needs to do, but ultimately, if we're going to see a winner, we'll need to see some stars.

As far as "Lebron walking back through the door," let's leave Lebron and the emotion that comes with him out for a second. You need a couple stars walking through the doors - you aren't doing it with complimentary players. You just aren't.

If you can't win it all without stars, which is clear, than what's the point of doing anything else? Again, I don't own the team. It's a fans perspective. If my choice is seeing good without a chance for the title, or shitty stretches with a chance, however, slim it might be - sign me up for the latter.

By the way, mentioned this earlier, but we really need to remember how bad that atmosphere was down there in the Fratello/Lucas years. The Gund was an absolute masoleum. Not sure why we would think things will be any different if the team mirrors Fratello's success.

If there's a better way to potentially get a big hitter in here, I'm all for it.

Lastly, concerning last night, I gotta say, I'm hoping to see a bit more of Sessions as a playmaker, cause right now, at the point, it's crucial they get a facilitator that can get some guys some easy hoops. Hell, when Boobie's runnin' the show they can barely get into the offense. This is magnified, as mentioned above, by the fact they don't have a bail out guy, not many guys that are creating their own shots. Far more important that Sessions creates for others, than anything else he does.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:47 pm

World B. Free... Before last summer the number of guys to leave a team for the max/forgo Bird Rights was about a one hand affair...

In the NBA its usually via trade. Cavaliers actually pulled that off once when trading for Kemp. We traded Brandon (#11 pick, proven vet), Tyrone HIll(prototype role player), and a #1 pick (1998 #19). Kemp was a legit top shelf talent,and was willing to put his name to a MONSTER CONTRACT IN CLEVELAND. At that time we had young talent...

I'd rather take my chances on Gilbert's checkbook then the Draft Lottery Ping Pong x Grant's skill as GM x correct year x correct player. Multiplying decimals yeilds lower and lower probabilities.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:56 pm

Orenthal wrote:World B. Free... Before last summer the number of guys to leave a team for the max/forgo Bird Rights was about a one hand affair...

In the NBA its usually via trade. Cavaliers actually pulled that off once when trading for Kemp. We traded Brandon (#11 pick, proven vet), Tyrone HIll(prototype role player), and a #1 pick (1998 #19). Kemp was a legit top shelf talent,and was willing to put his name to a MONSTER CONTRACT IN CLEVELAND. At that time we had young talent...

I'd rather take my chances on Gilbert's checkbook then the Draft Lottery Ping Pong x Grant's skill as GM x correct year x correct player. Multiplying decimals yeilds lower and lower probabilities.


World B Free was traded here from the Warriors.

And despite the fond memories of Shawn Kemp in some dark days here, his best, most athletic, most productive years were well behind him when he showed up here. Yeah, great, he signed a big deal and then became a drug addled fat ass with none of the explosiveness or athleticism that made him what he was in Seattle.

One more time: a free agent who signed here and had his best years here.

Anyone?


Gibert's check book has nothing to do with nothing OJ. He's just one of 30 or so with a big bank account and the bank his checks are written under enjoys 2 feet of snow on its steps November through February. No palm trees shading the bank's front doors, it's not in Times Square and you're not standing in line next to Angelina Jolie or Megan Foxx at Gilbert's bank.

There are 30 Dan Gilbert's waiting to sign checks.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:World B. Free... Before last summer the number of guys to leave a team for the max/forgo Bird Rights was about a one hand affair...

In the NBA its usually via trade. Cavaliers actually pulled that off once when trading for Kemp. We traded Brandon (#11 pick, proven vet), Tyrone HIll(prototype role player), and a #1 pick (1998 #19). Kemp was a legit top shelf talent,and was willing to put his name to a MONSTER CONTRACT IN CLEVELAND. At that time we had young talent...

I'd rather take my chances on Gilbert's checkbook then the Draft Lottery Ping Pong x Grant's skill as GM x correct year x correct player. Multiplying decimals yeilds lower and lower probabilities.


World B Free was traded here from the Warriors.

And despite the fond memories of Shawn Kemp in some dark days here, his best, most athletic, most productive years were well behind him when he showed up here. Yeah, great, he signed a big deal and then became a drug addled fat ass with none of the explosiveness or athleticism that made him what he was in Seattle.

One more time: a free agent who signed here and had his best years here.

Anyone?


Gibert's check book has nothing to do with nothing OJ. He's just one of 30 or so with a big bank account and the bank his checks are written under enjoys 2 feet of snow on its steps November through February.


The list of Cleveland Cavaliers that were drafted by the team that became stars is far longer than the list of Free Agents that came here and were stars. I said it kind of tounge and cheek earlier, but I'd like to see the list of the top ten Cavalier free agents in the history of the franchise. Including when Lebron was here. Also, keep in mind, in this modern NBA, you'll have a harder time gettin' em here than 20 years ago - and they didn't then.

In Cleveland, by far the best chance at a superstar is the ping pong ball. By far. And I realize it's not a great chance, and it blows that's the truth, but it's the reality of the situation. Dan Gibert's checkbook is one of many, and as long as he's throwin' it from Cleveland, he ain't going to hit much attractive.
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Re: Cavs v. Celts - Game 1 Byron Scott era

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:38 pm

Feh, Dolan is one of feh how does that work out... Sterling...
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