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3 straight number 1's fall

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3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:43 pm

'Bama
TOSU
annnd now Oklahoma.

has this proven without a doubt that..

A.) That college football has become more and more a sport of parity

B.) That it's all but almost impossible to make it through a season undefeated, unless you're playing Boise St. and TCU's schedule

I'm still amazed at the lack of a playoff with the recent years of this. On the flip side, it amazes me how in the world of ohio hs football, that every game in the regular season is still important and very good, in spite of it having a playoff. Further proving that, that argument is all but dead.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:53 pm

Don't look now, but if Mizzou gets out of Omaha with a win next Saturday they're cruising into the French XII championship undefeated.

Which craps on the BCS worse: Boise St v TCU for the BCS title or pick two of Oregon, Missouri, and Sparty?
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:56 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Don't look now, but if Mizzou gets out of Omaha with a win next Saturday they're cruising into the French XII championship undefeated.

Which craps on the BCS worse: Boise St v TCU for the BCS title or pick two of Oregon, Missouri, and Sparty?


Boise St-TCU, mainly because the presidents of the Big 6 will be so pissed that they'd be shut out of their own championship game.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:39 am

LOL, the top 3 BCS teams might not even get out of the top 10 without 3 losses each.

:whatajoke

Buckeyes legitimately beat 9 of the top 10 teams in the country.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:52 am

FUDU wrote:LOL, the top 3 BCS teams might not even get out of the top 10 without 3 losses each.

:whatajoke

Buckeyes legitimately beat 9 of the top 10 teams in the country.


Not sure I follow, Donny. OSU controlled their own destiny and stumbled. Did you expect them to be ranked ahead of no loss teams? The real joke is that MSU wins the Big 10 and then gets to the Rose Bowl against, most likely, an inferior opponent.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby jb » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:54 am

I want Oreygun v BSU , bad. I want Oreygun to run up the score like the dosshnozzles they are and have 90% of the small viewership that started turn off the game by half-time. I want the network to take a bath in blood financially and BSU to take one on the chin so we never have to listen to Utah, TCU, BSU, etc ever again.

Then maybe these idiots will fix this thing and legitimize it.

Oh, and Cam Newton is what TP could be if he didn't have his spoiled modern athlete entitlement complex and just shut up and balled like Saturday mattered most in life.

I hope he goes pro.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:52 am

Boise/Utah for the title.

Playoffs after the 2012 season.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby fundamentals » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:16 am

I hope Boise St. or TCU gets into the title game and wins it. :nanner:
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:59 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:LOL, the top 3 BCS teams might not even get out of the top 10 without 3 losses each.

:whatajoke

Buckeyes legitimately beat 9 of the top 10 teams in the country.


Not sure I follow, Donny. OSU controlled their own destiny and stumbled. Did you expect them to be ranked ahead of no loss teams? The real joke is that MSU wins the Big 10 and then gets to the Rose Bowl against, most likely, an inferior opponent.
I don't expect OSU to get ranked anywhere other than where they should be, I'm just saying that they could most likely beat every single team ahead of them with exception of Bama and Wisky due to the make up of the match ups. We've already done this Oregon team, no doubt in my mind we destroy TCU,BSU, we're built to take on an Auburn, we'd take out MSU. We don't deserve squat but this is exactly like 2007, there is no true hands down great team, so while one could say we're not as good as we thought we were we're still good enough to win the NCG this year.


I get the impression some people feel as if a NC title would be cheapened if we won it in a year like this, hogwash (honestly would any of us be returning the trophy if the Buckeyes beat LSU in that crazy CFB season?). I'm not picky about winning in this sport, give me a NC any year b/c frankly each year is so different, in large part to do the major flaws of the system we have in place.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:01 pm

jb wrote:Oh, and Cam Newton is what TP could be if he didn't have his spoiled modern athlete entitlement complex and just shut up and balled like Saturday mattered most in life.

I hope he goes pro.
Huh?
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby tired » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:12 pm

I can't believe the buckeye's lose a spot and go down to 11 in the bcs. So much for style points vs. Purdue.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby fundamentals » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:23 pm

Oregon will be exposed soon. tOSU would not destroy Boise State or TCU. The pollsters have an Apollo Creed type mentality toward the Buckeyes "you had yo chance", doesn't work the same for some other one loss teams which again begs for the playoff to be put into place.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:04 pm

FUDU wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:LOL, the top 3 BCS teams might not even get out of the top 10 without 3 losses each.

:whatajoke

Buckeyes legitimately beat 9 of the top 10 teams in the country.


Not sure I follow, Donny. OSU controlled their own destiny and stumbled. Did you expect them to be ranked ahead of no loss teams? The real joke is that MSU wins the Big 10 and then gets to the Rose Bowl against, most likely, an inferior opponent.
I don't expect OSU to get ranked anywhere other than where they should be, I'm just saying that they could most likely beat every single team ahead of them with exception of Bama and Wisky due to the make up of the match ups. We've already done this Oregon team, no doubt in my mind we destroy TCU,BSU, we're built to take on an Auburn, we'd take out MSU. We don't deserve squat but this is exactly like 2007, there is no true hands down great team, so while one could say we're not as good as we thought we were we're still good enough to win the NCG this year.


I get the impression some people feel as if a NC title would be cheapened if we won it in a year like this, hogwash (honestly would any of us be returning the trophy if the Buckeyes beat LSU in that crazy CFB season?). I'm not picky about winning in this sport, give me a NC any year b/c frankly each year is so different, in large part to do the major flaws of the system we have in place.


A NC is never cheap, unless you would be Boise State and only need to beat one, maybe 2 legit teams to win it.

I'm a big OSU homer, but Auburn is the real deal. Les Miles and all the chaos aside, War Eagle just abused a pretty good LSU run D. As far as beating up on the top 10, I tend to agree with you, but not quite to the same degree. Just for the hell of it

Neutral field

Auburn -6
Oregon pick 'em
Boise State +9
TCU +3
MSU +5
Mizzou +3
Bama -4
Utah +7
Oklahoma pick 'em
Wisky pick'em
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:50 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Neutral field

Auburn -6
Oregon pick 'em
Boise State +9
TCU +3
MSU +5
Mizzou +3
Bama -4
Utah +7
Oklahoma pick 'em
Wisky pick'em
I don't see it much different outside of Oregon and Oklahoma, IMO we get em both by 7-10, not suggesting we should be favored as such just that we can win it as such.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby pup » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:09 am

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:Oh, and Cam Newton is what TP could be if he didn't have his spoiled modern athlete entitlement complex and just shut up and balled like Saturday mattered most in life.

I hope he goes pro.
Huh?


If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:25 am

pup wrote:If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.


The idea that Terrelle Pryor is somehow dictating what the OSU offensive philosophy will be based on his own selfishness and an insistence that he be prepared for the NFL over winning college football games today, is nutty, on top of being terribly unfair to the kid, who has always struck me as just about as committed to the whole OSU "team" concept as any player on the roster, and as committed to winning as any other player.

As if Jim Tressel takes orders from Pryor on what they're going to do on offense. Don't think so. Pryor has often said...just this week after the Purdue game for example...that he wanted to run the ball more.

And I'm going to disagree with the other half of your take too, Pup. I've seen a little bit of Cam Newton, and he has shown me more in terms of running instincts and ability in a few highlight clips than I've seen from TP in three years.

As great an athlete as Pryor is, I don't think he's that great a pure runner...no real lateral moves...he's not particularly elusive in space, no hips...no shake...not a lot of tackle-breaking going on...and he almost always looks for the sideline instead of cutting back inside aggressively for more yardage (I'm sure part of that sideline chasing is the way he has been coached to play...self-preservation...) He's got speed and a great stiffarm, but that's about it as a runner.

Newton on the other hand is an absolute badass with the ball in his hands. He's looking to dish out punishment to the defenders. Pryor looks to avoid contact wherever possible.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:34 am

FUDU wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Neutral field

Auburn -6
Oregon pick 'em
Boise State +9
TCU +3
MSU +5
Mizzou +3
Bama -4
Utah +7
Oklahoma pick 'em
Wisky pick'em
I don't see it much different outside of Oregon and Oklahoma, IMO we get em both by 7-10, not suggesting we should be favored as such just that we can win it as such.


Give me Boise and the 9, for the maximum.

While they do have an unfair advantage with an easy ride, that defense is for real.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby pup » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:48 am

wiz1001 wrote:
pup wrote:If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.


The idea that Terrelle Pryor is somehow dictating what the OSU offensive philosophy will be based on his own selfishness and an insistence that he be prepared for the NFL over winning college football games today, is nutty, on top of being terribly unfair to the kid, who has always struck me as just about as committed to the whole OSU "team" concept as any player on the roster, and as committed to winning as any other player.

As if Jim Tressel takes orders from Pryor on what they're going to do on offense. Don't think so. Pryor has often said...just this week after the Purdue game for example...that he wanted to run the ball more.

And I'm going to disagree with the other half of your take too, Pup. I've seen a little bit of Cam Newton, and he has shown me more in terms of running instincts and ability in a few highlight clips than I've seen from TP in three years.

As great an athlete as Pryor is, I don't think he's that great a pure runner...no real lateral moves...he's not particularly elusive in space, no hips...no shake...not a lot of tackle-breaking going on...and he almost always looks for the sideline instead of cutting back inside aggressively for more yardage (I'm sure part of that sideline chasing is the way he has been coached to play...self-preservation...) He's got speed and a great stiffarm, but that's about it as a runner.

Newton on the other hand is an absolute badass with the ball in his hands. He's looking to dish out punishment to the defenders. Pryor looks to avoid contact wherever possible.


I was just explaining JB's post.

I believe it is somewhere in the middle. I believe Tress wants to be a guy that transforms gifted athletes into pro quarterbacks. I also believe part of Pryor's decision to come to tOSU was because of the fact that Tressel told him he would play QB and not RQB.

As for TP's skills. I think if they chose to ran the true option spread and he took the time to learn reading the proper reads he would be better than Newton. I think if the offense was designed to utilize his skills, they would be enhanced. And he would cut back more often. The injury piece of the puzzle obviously clouds that being possible.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:03 am

Lead, I am interested in what you think of TCU?
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:13 pm

I don't see TP as having a sense of entitlement at all, otherwise I see it much like pup does. TP is a self preservation runner no doubt, also between his and JT's desire to have Pryor be a pocket passer it has cost the Buckeyes lots of points and a couple wins in the past 3 years.

Utilize him better in the offense and especially in the red zone and the kid would be twice as good as he has shown.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:56 pm

pup wrote:I was just explaining JB's post.


Admittedly something that needed doing.

pup wrote:I believe Tress wants to be a guy that transforms gifted athletes into pro quarterbacks.


Not trying to be smart, but....based on what?

BTW, how's that going? Ten years on the job with no discernible track record.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:59 pm

wiz1001 wrote:
pup wrote:I was just explaining JB's post.


Admittedly something that needed doing.

pup wrote:I believe Tress wants to be a guy that transforms gifted athletes into pro quarterbacks.


Not trying to be smart, but....based on what?

BTW, how's that going? Ten years on the job with no discernible track record.


I mean, I love Troy Smith as much as the next OSU fan, but he hardly counts, not playing four years into his "career".
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:59 pm

fundamentals wrote:Lead, I am interested in what you think of TCU?


I think they have a strong team, however, put em' in a strong conference and I don't think Dalton runs the table with them. He gets away with mistakes he's not getting away with against the big boys week in and week out.

To be clear on a stance with Boise/TCU and the like - they have a ridiculous advantage. That's not a comment on the individual teams or programs, just a stone cold fact.

If a team from the SEC, say Alabama, was a true 7 point favorite against them on a neutral site - truly a better team...in this scenario Alabama loses more games virtually every year. Period. And, if Alabama is a true 7 point dog to Boise, truly a WORSE team, well, they would run the table in that conference using the magic of their mystical crimson turf field.

I get the "just playin' the schedule" arguments, the "nobody will play us" arguments, but bottom line is it's an infintely easier game for Boise to play each and every year.

And again, I'm not saying there haven't been, or couldn't be years in which Boise or TCU is the best team in the country - it's just not a fair road. It's like allowing a major league baseball team to play AAA teams in the regualr season. Doesn't mean they win the World Series, but an annual cakewalk to the playoffs in a nice advantage to have.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby pup » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:25 pm

wiz1001 wrote:
pup wrote:I was just explaining JB's post.


Admittedly something that needed doing.

pup wrote:I believe Tress wants to be a guy that transforms gifted athletes into pro quarterbacks.


Not trying to be smart, but....based on what?

BTW, how's that going? Ten years on the job with no discernible track record.


Didn't say he was succesful at it ;-) ;) :wink:

Are we really trying to decide if TP is truly not as talented of a running QB as we had thought? And he would not be better running the spread option than lining up in shotgun, taking a snap, turning his shoulders and A) Against dregs standing in the pocket tall and throwing nice balls or B)Against upper tier defenses scrambling at the first hint of pressure and chucking balls all over tarnation hoping Lil Dane makes a Death Defying Grab?

If he is really a better pocket/roll out passer than a runner, than he is one shitty runner at this point.

Of course, there is the chance that Tress was scared to death of him in DickRod's hands and promised him whatever he wanted to hear and Tress is to true to his word to go back on it now?
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:13 pm

First of all....and trust me on this one..Michigan was NEVER a player in the recruitment of Pryor. Not remotely a factor, regardless of what he said on signing day...he was just trying to be nice to the UM people.

Maybe he would have been more productive in a run-first offense, but just like he did with Troy Smith, JT didn't want to risk getting him hurt by rushing him 20 times a game....he has said as much in so many words.

It is also Tressel's theory that teams that can't throw the ball aren't going to win in today's CFB game, so he HAS to develop his QB as a passer no matter who it is.

Don't get me wrong...TP is a dangerous player with the ball in his hands....my point was just that he really isn't a natural runner...as in a guy with running back skills...and I think Newton is.

I also think Braxton Miller is...and he is a MUCH better passer than Pryor was as a H.S. player.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby tired » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:06 am

Wiz ??? What's frucking going on with Sabino ??? Is he burning his red shirt or not do ya know???
Do you think our defense might be in a little bit of trouble with all the injuries ??? thanks tired.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:01 am

tired wrote:Wiz ??? What's frucking going on with Sabino ??? Is he burning his red shirt or not do ya know???
Do you think our defense might be in a little bit of trouble with all the injuries ??? thanks tired.


Different views on that...but we should know soon enough. Chekwa was quoted yesterday (twitter?) that he saw Sabino's name on a depth chart somewhere, so it was speculated from there that he would be taking off the redshirt.

Doug Lesmerises' team source said that Jonathan Newsome would continue to be the SAM linebacker going into Minnesota, with Sweat staying at the Will spot. So it stands to reason that Sabino would be playing if someone else were to get hurt, but if they stay healthy from here on out, he might stay on the sidelines.

Then again, it might be that they want his contribution on kick coverage teams...a move that would be hard to disagree with, even if it costs him a year of eligibility...they have to do something.

And yes, the defense is very thin right now at safety and linebacker, and could be in serious trouble if they have any more injuries. As it is now, it's shaky....using Newsome and Gant as starters.

Edit: see Rusty Miller's article: http://bit.ly/cASwrI
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:03 pm

No freaking way is Pryor a better runner than Newton. Not in any aspect.

That said, neither one of them will succeed at the NFL level as a QB
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:08 pm

About that statement that Tressel has "no discernible track record" of producing NFL quarterbacks...

...word this morning is that Troy Smith will get the start for the 49ers this Sunday in Denver.

Good luck, Troy.

Edit: oops...that game is in London, not Denver
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby tired » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:42 pm

Go get em Troy !!! Take advantage baby !!!
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:53 am

pup wrote:
As for TP's skills. I think if they chose to ran the true option spread and he took the time to learn reading the proper reads he would be better than Newton. I think if the offense was designed to utilize his skills, they would be enhanced. And he would cut back more often. The injury piece of the puzzle obviously clouds that being possible.


I don't understand how this is such a popular opinion (and it is, at least in Buckeye country)

TP does NOT have the running instincts of Cam or Tebow, not even Vince, who is at least of similar style.

He does not run with immediate authority. How many times have you even seen him run at full strength? He just doesn't do it. He CANNOT run the ball in the interior, he simply doesn't have the mindset, didn't coming in and doesn't now.

We have been watching him for three years now, we know the guy. Coaching has nothing to do with HOW he runs the ball. he is who he is, and that is a big guy with great deceptive speed, very little lateral quickness and one of the nastiest stiff arms I've ever seen. As misleading as that stiff arm can be, he flat out is NOT physical with the ball.

The guy doesn't have it on the interior. That's why the wildcat is NOT a bad idea for a team with TP. Honestly I've never been less confident in a QB sneak as I am with Pryor. How the fuck can that be possible with a 6' 5 240lb QB? I don't know its just is. Honestly Krezel might have been a better runner on the called QB draw. If tress never tried to have TP run a draw ever again, we'd all be better for it IMO.

That all plays into why Pryor, who ran an electronically timed 4.3 this offseason, can look slower than Cam, Martinez, Robinson, etc.

I no longer think him wanting to be an NFL QB has any impact on his running. That's just who TP is as a runner. Can't change his stripes in that regard.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:57 am

pup wrote:If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.


I disagree, check this out for someone breaking down the counterpoint to your comment better than I can:

[url]
http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2010/1 ... ive-review[/url]
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby pup » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:57 pm

JCoz wrote:
pup wrote:If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.


I disagree, check this out for someone breaking down the counterpoint to your comment better than I can:

[url]
http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2010/1 ... ive-review[/url]


Well, certainly they can be better off by doing another thing.

They are better off as a true I team that runs the ball more than it passes. They would also be better off as a shotgun spread option team that runs the ball more than it passes. They are worse off being a pass first team, no matter formation. Especially against good defenses.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:15 pm

pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:
pup wrote:If TP was more interested in winning football games than being Pro ready, tOSU would run the real spread with TP, who is probably a better overall runner than Cam. And tOSU would be better off.


I disagree, check this out for someone breaking down the counterpoint to your comment better than I can:

[url]
http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2010/1 ... ive-review[/url]


Well, certainly they can be better off by doing another thing.

They are better off as a true I team that runs the ball more than it passes. They would also be better off as a shotgun spread option team that runs the ball more than it passes. They are worse off being a pass first team, no matter formation. Especially against good defenses.


I think you are blanketing too much Pup.

When the D wants to load up 8-9 in the box (as was done in the Rose and up to the Wisky game this season) There is no reason to not pass the ball. They can and should be able to pass first and pass extremely well vs 3 and 4 man secondaries.

This is all Nash Equalibrium now, teams have finally adjusted to our pass game (to our detriment as many other factors also blended and baked into a veritable punch-in-the-face souffle'at wisconsin - we didn't adjust quick enough when someone finally decided to defend us differently, which may have, by itself, been overcome)

And now we will have a real balance as the rest of the year moves on, as opposed to the pseudo-balance that we had earlier in the season leading up to the wisky game, where we ended up balanced most games, but it was severely distorted by garbage time rushing attempts and yardage disguising the fact that we were 70% pass for the part of the game that was briefly in question.
Last edited by JCoz on Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:02 pm

And now we will have a real balance as the rest of the year moves on, as opposed to the pseudo-balance that we had earlier, where we ended up balanced but it was severely distorted by garbage time rushing attempts and yardage disguising the fact that we were 70% pass for the part of the game that was briefly in question.


OSU was competitive for 3 qtrs in the Wisky game?

:thud:
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Re: 3 straight number 1's fall

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:23 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
And now we will have a real balance as the rest of the year moves on, as opposed to the pseudo-balance that we had earlier, where we ended up balanced but it was severely distorted by garbage time rushing attempts and yardage disguising the fact that we were 70% pass for the part of the game that was briefly in question.


OSU was competitive for 3 qtrs in the Wisky game?

:thud:


'Scuse me I was a little here and there in that post.

I was only talking about wisky for a line, the rest before and after are about the season before the wisky game.

Prior to Wisky, we were about 70% pass for the parts of the games that were competitive.

Wisky marked a change in defense against us this season.

Sorry for the confusion.
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