Moeller out for season: Secondary depth?

[furls]

Multiple Buckeye websites are reporting that Tyler Moeller is out for the year with a torn pectoral. If there was one spot that the Bucks could not afford to lose another player, I would have to say it was in the secondary. Christian Bryant, from G-Ville, played well yesterday and that is a good thing as he is likely the starter at "Star" for the rest of the year. The Buckeyes Paper thin secondary just got thinner.

[JCoz]

Moeller cannot be replaced, this is a huge loss.

Dont know what else to say.

[skatingtripods]

Feel awful for the kid. He just cannot catch a break.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Feel awful for the kid. He just cannot catch a break.

Yeah. His luck has been terrible.

[tired]

We are a quarter of the way through the season and lost two starters for the season. Torrence is playing hurt. Chekwa had a back sore enough to take him out of the game. We don't know where that injury stands. Their back-ups are out indefinitely. McVey would be the back-up to Bryant, but he is out for the year, which means it looks like Nate Oliver is #2 at the Star. We all know that is not a good thing. We are running out of bodies. We are running out of options. Everyone has to step up mainly Orhian Johnson.

[danwismar]

We are a quarter of the way through the season and lost two starters for the season. Torrence is playing hurt. Chekwa had a back sore enough to take him out of the game. We don't know where that injury stands. Their back-ups are out indefinitely. McVey would be the back-up to Bryant, but he is out for the year, which means it looks like Nate Oliver is #2 at the Star. We all know that is not a good thing. We are running out of bodies. We are running out of options. Everyone has to step up mainly Orhian Johnson.

Sure, losing Barnett and Moeller hurts, but I don't think it's quite time to reach for the hemlock. Johnson and Hines were the starting safeties in August, and they're the starting safeties now. Moeller has been replaced by Bryant, and OSU fans are going to LOVE Bryant, if they don't already (five solos Saturday in an excellent showing in a pressure situation). As far as the backup at Star, there's talk that if anything happened to Bryant, Hines would probably be moved back to Star where he started last year, and Aaron Gant or Oliver would go in at safety. It wouldn't surprise me if we started to see more of Jamie Wood at safety in the event of more injuries. He's a comer, IMO.

As far as I know, Torrence is healthy, as is Chekwa. It was back spasms for CC, and the two quarters he sat out were vs EMU, remember. He played the whole game Saturday. The #3 corner is Travis Howard, and he is back and ready to play after missing one game. Corey Brown is #4 corner and he is healthy, if inexperienced. #5 is Dominic Clarke, and he is fine. They don't want to play without their senior starters at CB, of course, but right now, they're healthy and playing, and their backups are not "out indefinitely", as you suggest. (Donnie Evege was approx. #5, and he is the only CB "out", though he's missed more on kick coverage teams)

BTW, I thought OJ Johnson had a good game Saturday. He's getting better with every outing. Hines didn't have one of his better performances against Illinois, IMO. Torrence was hardly even tested in the game...he wasn't even noticeable for most of the first three quarters...which tells you he was doing his job right, and they weren't throwing his direction. Illinois doesn't pretend to have much of a passing attack though. The real test of the secondary will come this week against Chappell.

[JCoz]

We are a quarter of the way through the season and lost two starters for the season. Torrence is playing hurt. Chekwa had a back sore enough to take him out of the game. We don't know where that injury stands. Their back-ups are out indefinitely. McVey would be the back-up to Bryant, but he is out for the year, which means it looks like Nate Oliver is #2 at the Star. We all know that is not a good thing. We are running out of bodies. We are running out of options. Everyone has to step up mainly Orhian Johnson.

Duane has a serious glass half empty syndrome right now regarding the secondary, time will tell if he is correct or making mountains out of molehills there.

[furls]

I get where the concerns are coming from. This is the way that I see the secondary right now:

CB: This position is a bit scary, as we discussed in another thread, Torrence and Chekwa are pretty good corners but they are not as good as Jenkins, Gamble, Youboty, Winfield, Clements, Plummer types that we have gotten accustomed to over the last five years. They are perfectly fine and get the job done, they just seem worse because of the legacy they have to uphold.

The problem is that there is a pretty significant drop off between those two and Howard and there is an even bigger one between Howard and Pitts Brown/Dominick Clarke. We are a couple of injuries from putting some pretty questionable guys out there. I am sure that Brown and Clarke will improve over time, but the problem is that we don't have any time for them to get ready to compete at Championship Level.

S: Tyler Moeller's loss is Christian Bryant's gain. Now, I would have to agree that any injury to Bryant makes us have to reshuffle the entire secondary and move Hines from SS to Star when we play nickel putting Gant or Oliver on the field at safety. None of us wants that, neither have been able to break the 2 deep in all these years, and they have been passed by MULTIPLE underclassmen on the depth chart. As for Jamie Wood, at this point I am going to effectively toss him into the "Oliver and Gant" pile. I am not sure that he will ever see the field in any meaningful way at OSU. I thought he was going to be the "cat's pajamas," but again, it is another guy that is running in quicksand on the depth chart. You have to think that OSU's plan at safety for the future is going to be Johnson, Barnett, and Bryant.

So while the Bucks may have lots of names on a roster to fill in a depth chart, they are pretty thin. Personally, if anything happened to any of the safeties, I would prefer that the Bucks go 3-4/4-3 and reserve the nickel for straight nickel situations instead of using it as a base.

[danwismar]

No disagreement on the dropoff at corner after the starters, but really when has that not been the case?...and at what position is it not the case?

Every team has injuries...and I would suggest that Ohio State is better able to weather injuries than other teams...as Bryant is a good example...not too many teams can bring off the bench a guy who was the #2 prep cornerback in the nation last year...most teams would be starting him.

Hope you're wrong on Wood, Furls. He's a RS freshman, so unlike Oliver and Gant, he hasn't been bypassed on the depth chart for years like they have. We'll see. I'll just say I've liked what I have seen of him in spring scrimmages and games.

Did you guys like what you saw of O. Johnson on Saturday, or am I wearing the scarlet-tinted glasses?

[danwismar]

To your point about nickel as the base defense, Furls...

If I'm not mistaken, they played it the entire game Saturday, did they not? I don't recall seeing Sweat on the field much, if at all. Did I miss something, or did they play the whole game in nickel? In retrospect, it's a little surprising since Illinois was primarily a run-oriented offense coming in.

Chances are we'll see much the same thing this week vs IU, pretty much a passing team. Then they'll probably go back to the 3-linebacker look as the "base" against Wisconsin, I'd think.

[JCoz]

To your point about nickel as the base defense, Furls...

If I'm not mistaken, they played it the entire game Saturday, did they not? I don't recall seeing Sweat on the field much, if at all. Did I miss something, or did they play the whole game in nickel? In retrospect, it's a little surprising since Illinois was primarily a run-oriented offense coming in.

Chances are we'll see much the same thing this week vs IU, pretty much a passing team. Then they'll probably go back to the 3-linebacker look as the "base" against Wisconsin, I'd think.

I saw sweat in on a few plays early Wiz, can't account for the whole game though.

[JCoz]

No disagreement on the dropoff at corner after the starters, but really when has that not been the case?...and at what position is it not the case?

Every team has injuries...and I would suggest that Ohio State is better able to weather injuries than other teams...as Bryant is a good example...not too many teams can bring off the bench a guy who was the #2 prep cornerback in the nation last year...most teams would be starting him.

Hope you're wrong on Wood, Furls. He's a RS freshman, so unlike Oliver and Gant, he hasn't been bypassed on the depth chart for years like they have. We'll see. I'll just say I've liked what I have seen of him in spring scrimmages and games.

Did you guys like what you saw of O. Johnson on Saturday, or am I wearing the scarlet-tinted glasses?

I agree about the depth, remember that the only reason Gamble ever played at CB was because of injuries/depth/talent issues at Corner.

Infact we've rarely been deeper than 3 at the position in terms of players that could be solid contributors against good teams.

I haven't watched the game for the 2nd time yet, so I don't know about Orihan, but I will say I wasn't noticing him negatively in my first viewing.

[dmiles]

Please don't beat me up here as I am only speculating from some idle observations, I don't go back and review the plays.... Was Moeller occasionally a step or two late in coverage? I loved his sideline-to-sideline ability to run down someone and actually make the tackle don't get me wrong I hate to see him go What I mean is when he was in coverage and specifically the guy he was most near.... Now that could be the soft coverage too, it just seemed like a lot of balls were thrown his way.

[furls]

Moeller is not really a coverage guy, he is really an "undersized" LB, so he generally doesn't draw serious coverage responsibility. THe Bucks really like to use him as a free lancer and in pass rush/blitzes.

Nah, corner depth is always a bit of a concern, no one wants a RS Freshman on an island, I just don't remember the drop off being that severe. As for the nickel, they were in nickel almost the whole game. I would guess 70:30 ish.

I love what I am seeing out of all the safeties thus far, OJ has been good. Barnett looked great once he got his feet wet. Bryant is impressive and is pbly the best true safety I have seen on this team since Whitner. Hines is good at SS, I like him as both Star and SS, actually a little more as star, but it it gets Moeller/Bryant on the field then it is worth having him at SS even though he is a bit better as the nickelback.

I really liked Wood coming into OSU, but like I said, I am not sure that we will ever see much from him.

[jb]

If the Bucks are thin in the secondary, I think the question is can anyone exploit it at all? Other than Stanzi maybe, I doubt it. Certainly not Retard Robinson doing his Tom Harmon imitation. Wisky will just line up up and play, so will Sparty.

So the question starts to become BCS perhaps. I think bama's physicality will force us into at lesat polaying the pass straight up, probably having to bring a DB up to 8 in box often. Then we're in deep kimchee.

BSU I'm not so sure we can't play straight up and conatin the run and play an extra DB with a long time to prepare.

Thoughts?

[furls]

I tend to agree with your assessment on the secondary depth. I think we may see some teams (like Indiana this week) move the ball a little more than we like, but in general I don't see anyone in the B10 that can put 3WRs on the field that are good enough to try to exploit Johnson, Hines or Bryant. The concern for me is maybe a TE in Wisconsin or possibly Stanzi in Iowa. Right now I think Wiscy is a little easier game than I thought it would be, I just don't think Wiscy is that good. Iowa is a bit tougher than I thought. I had Wiscy #2 in B10 and Iowa #3, now I think it is flip flopped.

In a BCS type match up, I think the D is just right for Oregon. I think the Bucks, as configured right now, have pretty much the best personnel to stop Oregon. Even still you have to be a bit lucky and be solid tackling the ball carrier to really shut them down. The scariest part of that offense is one missed tackle on James or Barner and they are going to run a long way. Alabama is problematic in that I am not sure that we have a guy to line up on Julio Jones while taking Richardson/Ingram away. Both of those backs are future featured backs in the NFL and they are no joke. They are the rare combination of power for 3 yards when the play is well defended and burst into the secondary for 20 when someone misses a tackle, or the hole opens up. 'Bama is a tough out for anyone (yes I do think that we should continue to play out the season and not just give them the trophy).

Boise, with a month of prep time is not scary. They aren't fooling anyone anymore. We all know what they are, a good team that is very well coached. They don't have the playmakers that have me shaking in my boots, that is a game we can win.

The Bucks are just fine in the secondary right now, should any of Torrence, Chekwa, Johnson, Hines or Bryant get injured they are in trouble. That is the real concern, there really is no depth left in the secondary, and I think that the first guy off the bench should that happen will make us long for the days when Anderson Russell used to prowl the secondary..... yikes.

[danwismar]

yikes.

+1

[JCoz]

I had this thought on Sunday but didn't share it with anyone, and now I'm reading a rumor on bucknuts that has us giving Bryant a crash course on Safety this week because we will be moving Hines back to the Star.

This makes alot of sense to me, first because I think Hines fits the Star better than he fits as a pure safety in fact you are getting THE closest thing to Ty without having Ty), and second because Bryant has fantastic cover skill and has played Safety for years, which is surprisingly not common with our Safeties in the Tressel Era.

Of course in the base they would remove Bryant and put Hines back there, but if true I really like this development and I believe it is the best move for the team over the course of this season given where we are right now.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Wisky will just line up up and play, so will Sparty.

We don't play Michigan State.

[furls]

I agree JCoz, Hines to star and Bryant to SS/FS makes a lot of sense.

[danwismar]

I'm not saying they won't shift Hines to Star, because they have already hinted they might do that if Bryant were to get hurt.

I am saying that if they do it, it will be contrary to everything they have said this spring and summer....about how they didn't want to upset the plan by shifting either Hines or Bryant to a different position. They wanted Bryant to concentrate on Star and only Star because learning two different positions as a true freshman was too much to ask of him, and they didn't want to confuse Hines by moving him back and forth from safety to Star once the season had started.

I know desperate times, and all that, but I don't think they're desperate yet.

Obviously coaches have changes of heart and they roll with the punches as circumstances change, but this seems like a radical move for a coach who doesn't do radical...especially in mid-season.

[tired]

Scares me. We need to up the tempo on the pass rush to help out.

[danwismar]

Two tweets from Adam Jardy of Buckeye Sports Bulletin today are pertinent to the thread:


"Want to clarify something. If you saw a news report that Jermale Hines will be the 'star' this weekend, said report was incorrect."


"Hines has worked as the backup star, but Christian Bryant will be the starting 'star' for Ohio State. Want to make that point clear."

[jb]

Wisky will just line up up and play, so will Sparty.

We don't play Michigan State.

Yeah, well that's like ur opinion, man.

[tired]

now there's reports that Grant Schwartz hurt his leg in practice. I know he's not a starter but, it keep's getting thinner.

[fairvis]

Good article on Moeller on ESPN...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5655294

I'm still hoping he's going to get year #6. With him, the NCAA should be merciful, especially since he's gone through a lot (and it's not his fault) and he's done well in the classroom.

[furls]

Not that surprised about not moving Hines to star; it made sense as Hines played star last year. If it is Bryant's future, then why not. I am not all that worried about either of those two at safety. I am really more worried about what we do if one of them gets injured.

Grant Schwartz has been repping with the WRs and was pretty far down on the depth chart. Shouldn't affect the secondary unless they moved him there after the Moeller injury.

[JCoz]

After listening to the Moeller interview this week, I have to say this is maybe the best thing that could have happened to Ty, bad as it is for the 2010 buckeyes....

To summarize:

Moeller tore this back in 08, and tweaked or tore it further over the course of that season, he said 10-12 times. He played heavily wrapped the entire year.

OSU could not operate to fix the tear either by medical doctor common sense (which I do not have) or by NCAA rules on such matters, I don't know, I didn't fully understand the comment, but bottom line is they could not surgically repair the tear unless it fully ripped.

Ty went on to say that he'd essentially been playing with one arm, using his right arm to shed blocks and such...he said he literally has not been able to bench press for 2+ years, and that when he tore it the first time he was the 5th leading Bench press on the team at around 400lbs.

He is in great spirits and in a way I kind of think he is...well, not happy, but not very upset about it either, because now he will have the opportunity to truly get back to 100%, which let me say it's scary to think we were watching a 70-80% Ty Moeller this year.

To conclude, just take this away: Should he get his 6th year granted, and rehab goes well, we will get an even more devastating force in Tyler Moeller on the D next season.

Also as a note, no one should (IMO) be talking about Ty as a kid who is injury prone. He sustained one injury in 08 which was not fully realized until now, and was suckerpunched in Bar.

He gets back to 100% and I think we get an incredible senior year from a kid that you can't not root for.

[danwismar]

Interesting stuff about Moeller, Coz. Thanks.

This is from Brandon Castel's column at the Ozone re: the Star and safety positions:

When Tyler Moeller went down with an injury in the first quarter of the Illinois game, there was no hesitation on putting freshman Christian Bryant into the game at star. Now that the Buckeyes have learned they will be without Moeller the rest of the year, they are still planning to stick with the youngster out of Glenville.

“Christian’s been working with the ones and the twos,” safeties coach Paul Haynes said.

“Nate Oliver’s also been working at the star a little bit and Jermale (Hines) has kind of been spelling him a little bit.”

Although he provides much-needed depth at both star and safety, Haynes said he had “no idea” when Oliver (hamstring) would be fully healthy. Even if he was, the Buckeyes like the production they got from Bryant in his first real action as a Buckeye.

“That’s what you expect out of that guy, production,” Haynes said.

“If you look through the years, those guys have been the most productive that we’ve had. That’s why we put him at the spot because he’s an active guy.”

There have been rumors that Hines could slide back to his old position and play star with Bryant, or someone else like Aaron Gant or Jamie Wood, moving back to the free safety spot. When Haynes was asked if there was “any scenario where Christian Bryant is not the starting star Saturday?” he said no.