Ultimate Fight Night (9/15/10)

[XUDawg]

This is not about the debacle that was the main event last night. Marquardt's victory was tarnished by a mistimed complaint by his opponent, his previous problems with steroids, and his trainer/manager's history of complaints about greasing.

I wanted to talk about Cole Miller. After his impressive victory last night, he said this in his post-fight interview: “I see all these wrestlers coming out here, point fighting strikers, and lay and pray jiu-jitsu guys, they’re all doing the same thing. Ain’t nobody trying to finish, pass guard, mount, nothing, just control the clock. This ain’t football, people gotta come in here and fight.”

My wife asked me why I was clapping at the television and that was why. I love the kid's attitude. And he's right. As MMA becomes more lucrative, guys fight for more money, and have more to lose. And this controlling to a decision crap is making MMA as or more boring than point fighting in boxing. I actually fell asleep during GSP's title fight against Dan Hardy shortly after I heard Greg Jackson instruct his "fighter" not to try to pass guard or submit Hardy, but instead to sit in his guard for a round. IOW, he wanted him to wrestle instead of fight in order to secure a victory against an obviously inferior opponent. It was shameful.

Frankie Edgar beat B.J. Penn twice in a row. Kudos. But he did so in a way that never put Penn in danger. Penn came out looking like he hadn't even been in a fight. After five rounds. Chael Sonnen was laying on Anderson Silva for five rounds before Silva remembered he is way better than Sonnen and triangled him. And Sonnen has received massive amounts of praise for this. Silva barely had a scratch. Jon Fitch shamelessly lays on guys for three round UDs. And local hero Gray Maynard in the last couple years has eked out decisions without ever coming close to finishing a guy. And now he's in line for a title shot against fellow bore Frankie Edgar.

Luckily there are guys like Cole Miller, Charles Oliveira (who also impressed last night), the Diaz brothers, Evan Dunham, Shogun Rua, and other fighters that try to finish on the feet, on the mat, and with a submission. They know they are there to fight AND win. If you win without fighting, what's the f'ing point? There are some young guys out there looking to redeem MMA, and I'm rooting for all of them.

[fightdr]

Wow.
Last I checked there are a lot of aspects to the "fight" or mixed martial arts game.
We just had "local hero" on our show last night and discussed pretty much this exact topic.
Tune in and listen.
There are people that don't watch Floyd Mayweather or even Andre Ward because they are "boring" yet they are considered two of the best fighters in the world.
GSP wins and nobody can stop him from dominating them. Same with Maynard. Silva also.
You keep cheering for guys like Cole Miller who will win every other fight because they want to put on a show.
If other fighters want to complain about fighter's styles, get in there and do something about it. Nobody has been able to stop any of those above mentioned fighters.

You fight to win. Not look pretty.
Ravens won the Super Bowl playing ugly football a few years back.
I can go on and on and on.

You prefer exciting fights which is fine. I like all styles and if a guy dominates, that should be applauded as well.

[peeker643]

First to admit I don't understand the technical elements involved. And while I absolutely love watching a 1-0 baseball game, when it comes to boxing/mma I want to watch for the action.

I have no interest in watching two technical experts any more than I do watching two NASA researcher plot charts. I understand the importance of that and I respect what they do, but when I tune in a fight I want to see fighting.

The issue for MMA and boxing is that I'm probably way more representative of the casual, ticket-buying population than a guy like Spoon. They've got Spoon. He's a fan of the science and the sport. I'm the guy at the NASCAR race drinking a beer and waiting for the pileup. But MMA and boxing need me to get over.

Spoon is dead-nuts on: it's about winning and moving on to another payday. I get it. I just don't have an appreciation for the technical expertise some display same way as some can't see the beauty and art of a 1-0 baseball game where any single pitch can change it.


Unfortunately I'm far more likely to agree with XU in terms of what I want to see.

[fightdr]

You're dead on Peeker.
We all prefer different things which is great, that's our right.
The thing that pisses me off is the people who criticize the fighters that have never fought/trained/sparred or thought about getting into mma or boxing or even just taking a few casual classes in one of disciplines to see how tough they are.
I will never say Gray Maynard is the most exciting fighter or even close for that matter. He wins and I respect what he has done in the sport. I'm a fan.
Everybody has their own opinion.
I stated mine.
See everyone in a few months when I get riled up again

[XUDawg]

I knew you'd get "riled" by my post. And it's about fucking time because this forum has been dead for a while. But to counter what you said, guys like Maynard can win. In the States. But Nick Diaz wins here, and can go to Japan and win there. Maynard couldn't. If you go to Japan, fight in a ring, and try to lay on a guy, you get a yellow card. Diaz doesn't win every other fight. He hasn't lost in years. At ANY weight. And his TECHNICAL ability can translate to MMA fights everywhere. In Japan, there is no scoring advantage for what you call "technical". You actually get points deducted. Your technical skills have to translate into offensive fighting.

You also don't know if I train or not.

I like winners too. What I don't like are fighters expecting a judge to issue them a win every time they step into a ring or a cage. The judges are supposed to be a last resort if the fight isn't finished. Maynard, while a nice guy, and available to talk to guys like you, can't seem to win that way. Hopefully his hands get better. Or his offense on the ground gets better. Because right now, he has the wrestling technical ability to win a decision, but not to win an actual fight.

I am not asking for brawlers. I love technical fighters. Silva is highly technical. Shogun has sick technical ability on the ground, and his muay thai, which may look like a brawling style to the uneducated, is very very high level. If it wasn't, Machida would have lit him up. The Diaz brothers' jiu jitsu is amazing, and their unorthodox boxing is very effective. And Dunham and Oliveira have technical skills everywhere (Oliveira lacks wrestling at the moment, but he's only 20).

I appreciate technical fighters. I don't appreciate guys that want to turn a fight into a wrestling match. I am looking forward to GSP's second fight with Koshcheck, because I bet he won't be able to lay on him for five rounds. He will be forced to show his stand up and submission ability, which is what made people like me like him in the fucking first place.

[fightdr]

Maynard is a UFC fighter and doesn't have to worry about fighting in a ring so that argument goes in one ear and out the other to be honest.
I'm sure he wouldn't fare as well but would adapt to the different rules/styles if needed.
Diaz is great and needs to fight a better level of competition every time out, not just every other fight.
I also could care less if you train or not(guessing you don't), I wasn't just referring to you but all the other keyboard warriors out there. That's for both mma and boxing.
95% of the writers and so called experts have never trained or even played sports I would be willing to wager.
Going into a fight, guys know the rules and scoring and win based on that. You're a PRIDE fan, we know that. That's okay. I had to turn a lot of their shows off because of that annoying ass broad that makes me want to smash my tv everytime she opens her mouth.

Mixed martial ARTS is the best sport out there. Debates like this actually make you appreciate what these guys do even more.


FYI, Gray Maynard isn't really a local guy. He just moved here for a few years to wrestle at St. Ed's.

[XUDawg]

I agree with you about MIXED martial arts. (I can do it too.)

Is Gray from MI? Impressive that he showed that kind of commitment even in high school to improving his wrestling.

I do take BJJ classes. I have back problems that started fifteen years ago, and the doc told me to improve my flexibility. Already being an MMA fan, I knew that BJJ required one to become flexible.

But personal shit aside, I understand what you mean about uneducated fans booing, and print and web critics. Those guys put their bodies on the line, most of them for less than what we make sitting behind a desk or selling clothes. Most of them train 365, and most also need other jobs to support themselves. And most of the critics couldn't recognize a sweep or TDD to save their lives. I've never booed a fighter in my life. I might disagree with a fighter's style, but I always appreciate a guy willing to fight another guy and let me watch.

[fightdr]

Gray was born in Arizona.
Went to high school in Vegas for 2 years and then came to Ohio and Ed's.
Wrestled at Michigan State. Roomed with Rashad.
Awesome fighter/wrestler. Better dude.
I've gotten to know him pretty well over the last few years so i'll be pulling for him if he knocking mother f-ers out, ground and pounding them, or laying and praying baby.
The new lightweight champ in the UFC is going to be Gray Maynard in just a few short months.

Back to business. Going to many live shows you still hear people yell stupid ass uneducated WWE shit. And they paid hard earned money for their ticket.

We agree the sport is great. Get your boy Nick Diaz back in the UFC so he can be tested by the best of the best. He's fun as shit to watch. I'm a fan.

[XUDawg]

Did you see this? Stockton's finest is training with your boy, Andre Ward.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Diaz-Skips-Strikeforce-Teleconference-Noons-Claims-Ground-Game-Improved-27175

[fightdr]

I actually talked to Andre a few days ago and he mentioned it.
The Super Six has been a mess recently but he's still working like the true champion he is.
Get Diaz in some Pound 4 Pound Apparel and he then becomes my favorite mma guy.