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Canes v Buckeyes

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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby furls » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:34 pm

Boom gains several yards on carries that BS would lose yards on. Sorry, BS is pbly the worst of the 4 RBs that we have seen get any carries this year.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby furls » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:36 pm

BS = Lydell Ross.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby dmiles » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:42 pm

Furls I am glad you are bringing this up about Saine. There were some major Saine-backers here last year, and I think he has a purpose as a change of pace guy, but Boom had the better vision today. Boom is the better option right now but man I want to see Berry get some touches. I realize Jordan Hall is 3rd in the depth chart but hopefully we can get some run for Berry.

- The missed opportunities are a bit of a concern but it is a W early in the season, and give the coaches film to see who the hell is making plays at game speed.
- Pryor on an off-day is still a freakin' beast. Realistically he was off on the touch passes. There were a few bad passes deep, but his stretching of the field with deep routes is important.
- So that was a Cover-4 leaving the middle so soft? Bend don't break, whatever you call it, there were too many conversions on 3rd and long.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:11 pm

Just got home from the game and read through the thread. I decided to unnecessarily censor CDT:


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Pryor's stiff #### is amazing.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:And now I have to smoke a victory ####.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:30 am

I completely disagree on the notion Saine is the odd man out, especially compared to Herron. I like them both for their strengths (and they each have their own) but no way in hell Herron's better vision (with lack of speed and explosion) outweighs Saine's God given explosion and home run ability (despite lack of vision). Herron is a truck. IMO it was just a bad game for Saine and a good game for UM's line at times. Plus Saine's ability to do what he did on the TD catch is something Herron cannot do.

Plenty of time to work it all out.

We should be 6-0 before any concerns are serious.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby dmiles » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:40 am

I am fine with Saine on the wheel route, and it's true if there is a pretty wide hole he explodes through it better than Boom and has a better shot of taking a long run to the house. You have give some carries to Saine, though I like him better as a receiver... if nothing else to keep the defense honest and as a guy who stretches the field he needs to play. I just think you keep the carries down maybe 10 or under?
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby StewieG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:24 am

Got back from the game not too long ago. Some thoughs:

- Ohio Stadium is amazing. It's my second trip there, and my first "Big Game". The place was LOUD. Much louder than the first time I was there. The crowd really showed up today. The U represented well...they had a section in the lower northeast section of the stadium, and a section just above it completely orange and green, plus some scattered throughout the stadium. I loved how the stadium crew kept bringing up old national championship game memories though. They did it the entire first half...trivia, they brought in Will Smith for a nice ovation, all sorts of stuff.

- Chekwa had a GREAT game. Harris didn't look to his side of the field often, and when he did Chekwa picked it off. The non-call on what probably should have been PI in the end zone though looked suspect to us in the stands. We thought maybe they ruled the ball uncatchable, or that maybe it had hit him before he hit the receiver. He certainly didn't try to make a play on the ball though. Still, mad props to him today.

- Saine was awful. Boom wasn't great, but he got the job done. I just feel like we're biding our time til Berry gets in there. He really has a knack for making people whiff.

- Heyward and Simon were getting held all game. They were beasts, but their stats won't show it.

- Torrence got picked on all game. Harris was really looking to throw to that side of the field.

- With the exception of when we played vanilla defense in the 4th and special teams, OSU dominated the game in just about every way, including the mental part. You could see Miami getting frustrated, which led to a string of dumb false-start penalties. It killed drives and forced Harris to make risky throws, which we of course took advantage of.

- Good lord. The lanes on the punt return and kick return for TD's were huge. Either our guys weren't getting to their spots, or they were and were simply manhandled out of them. Neither way bodes well. At some point special teams will cost us a game unless it gets addressed big time.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby tired » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:35 am

FUDU wrote:I thought I remember hearing a rumor last week that TSV was going to have no part of LeBron being on the sidelines? (which I thought was the right thing for TSV to do)
Lebron didn't go. He requested for full police escort and Ohio stated denied it, they granted MAYBE 1, so he decided not to go.

He was rooting for the buckeyes as on his twitter he was doing it throughout the game, and Cane fans were PISSED.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby tired » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:40 am

StewieG wrote:Got back from the game not too long ago. Some thoughs:

- Ohio Stadium is amazing. It's my second trip there, and my first "Big Game". The place was LOUD. Much louder than the first time I was there. The crowd really showed up today. The U represented well...they had a section in the lower northeast section of the stadium, and a section just above it completely orange and green, plus some scattered throughout the stadium. I loved how the stadium crew kept bringing up old national championship game memories though. They did it the entire first half...trivia, they brought in Will Smith for a nice ovation, all sorts of stuff.

- Chekwa had a GREAT game. Harris didn't look to his side of the field often, and when he did Chekwa picked it off. The non-call on what probably should have been PI in the end zone though looked suspect to us in the stands. We thought maybe they ruled the ball uncatchable, or that maybe it had hit him before he hit the receiver. He certainly didn't try to make a play on the ball though. Still, mad props to him today.

- Saine was awful. Boom wasn't great, but he got the job done. I just feel like we're biding our time til Berry gets in there. He really has a knack for making people whiff.

- Heyward and Simon were getting held all game. They were beasts, but their stats won't show it.

- Torrence got picked on all game. Harris was really looking to throw to that side of the field.

- With the exception of when we played vanilla defense in the 4th and special teams, OSU dominated the game in just about every way, including the mental part. You could see Miami getting frustrated, which led to a string of dumb false-start penalties. It killed drives and forced Harris to make risky throws, which we of course took advantage of.

- Good lord. The lanes on the punt return and kick return for TD's were huge. Either our guys weren't getting to their spots, or they were and were simply manhandled out of them. Neither way bodes well. At some point special teams will cost us a game unless it gets addressed big time.
Thank you sir !!! Love it !!!
Hope you had a great time !!! 1 thing about Saine besides his speed is he's got some great hands. But yeah I expected more from him.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:33 am

dmiles wrote:I am fine with Saine on the wheel route, and it's true if there is a pretty wide hole he explodes through it better than Boom and has a better shot of taking a long run to the house. You have give some carries to Saine, though I like him better as a receiver... if nothing else to keep the defense honest and as a guy who stretches the field he needs to play. I just think you keep the carries down maybe 10 or under?



SD:

Neither one of these rb's deserve to be running the rock.
No explosion no strength and no instincts , they both suck sheeit thru a straw
and will be our down fall unless Tressel pulls the rag out and upgrades the spot.

Sheeit you could take one of bama's fourth string runners off their scout team and
sit either of these rejects .

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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:47 am

Somewhere on that roster is a guy that can and will play. And the need is lessened when you know the yards you really have to have will be called for the 6'6" 240lb hammer who takes the snap and is the best back on the roster.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:11 am

Well I hit some of it.....

JCoz wrote:Ok so I did ok last week, lets see if I can come close in this one.

This one is infinitley harder to predict, but here goes....

OSU 31-23 Actual 36-24

Pryor - 230 passing 2TD's 1INT, 65 yds rushing and 1TD
Actual - 233 passing, 1 TD 0 picks, 110 yards rushing 1td

Saine and Boom - 115yds, 1TD, 35 yds rec
Actual 73yds 1TD, 83yds 1td rec

Posey and Sanz - 110yds rec 1TD
Actual - 142yds rec 0TD

Stoney - 70yds 1TD
Actual 8yds

Offense puts up 400 total yards. Actual 414

Defense holds them to less than 70 yds rushing. Actual 121

Defense holds them to less than 300 total yards. Actual 352

OSU wins TO's - 2-1 (Willaims and Hines)Actual 4-0 (Williams, Heyward, Chekwa)

OSU O player of game - Pryor Correct
OSU D player of game - The Dline, particularly in the middle Though this mightbe Chekwa, the inside Dline was very good in this game

Thats what I am going with. Score in my mind is closer than the game will show.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby tired » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:04 am

No matter what Saine needs to be on the field. To much talent and speed. I wish he was a reciever tho.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby danwismar » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:38 pm

In case you've got just 15 minutes instead of three hours to re-watch the Miami game....

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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:12 pm

After having a day to think about it, rewatch it.....I can't help but be downright giddy about this team.

Some of our biggest questions coming into the season were

- Pryor's progression
- Pass protection
- Defensive backfield
- Field goal kicker
- Return game
- Coverage units

I feel alot of my worries here have already been alleviated. We just got to see Mike Adams go against a DE on the level of Heyward and Clayborn in the 2nd game of the season. How many times do you remember singling out Adams for bad plays?

We have dynamite return men in Berry and Hall for the first time since Teddy was on the team.

The Safeties were a legitimate concern coming into the year. We just went against the best QB/WR's combo on the schedule. How many big pass plays did we give up? I hope Johnson is ready, but hines has played well so far.

The silver lining on the poor play inside the red zone is that I now feel confident in our kicker, not something I would have said 2 games ago. We needed those FGs bad and we got them from all different extreme angles, no blocks 5/6. No he'll never even be a poor man's Nuge, but it's not a major weakness on the team.

Pryor's mid to long throwing accuracy is greatly improved, as is his decision making and control of the offense. No where near a finished product, but then, that's part of the optimism as well.

Coverage units are what they are. AFAIK, these are not new coaches, and we have successfully covered kicks before. You have to think they will work out the kinks. Either way, there isn't much you can say about it.

But the reason I'm really excited is because this team has so much room to grow this season. And they are already REALLY REALLY GOOD. Remember how the 05 team progressed as the year went on? I see that kind of improvement as a very real possibility, only the catch is that this team is ahead of that 05 team offensively at this point.

And I do think this defense is developing some swagger. They will punch you in the mouth and take the ball away from you at any time. If they can manage to go undefeated this year and grow while beating teams like wisconsin, iowa, penn st, this schedule will have set them up well for whoever waits at the end of the tunnel.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:20 pm

In the last four quote-unquote "big" non-conference games (2009 Fiesta Bowl, 2009 vs. USC, 2010 Rose Bowl & last Saturday vs. Miami), the Buckeyes have scored eight touchdowns to 14 field goals (seven of those from inside the opponents' ten-yard line.)

This team HAS to finish more drives with touchdowns instead of field goals.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:34 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:In the last four quote-unquote "big" non-conference games (2009 Fiesta Bowl, 2009 vs. USC, 2010 Rose Bowl & last Saturday vs. Miami), the Buckeyes have scored eight touchdowns to 14 field goals (seven of those from inside the opponents' ten-yard line.)

This team HAS to finish more drives with touchdowns instead of field goals.


I agree, they have some things to figure out.

Isn't it nice to be beating top ten teams while we do?

Pryors short passing is starting to resemble DA, but his intermediate passing has been stellar, I expect us to start attacking down field more as Tress gets more comfortable with letting pryor do that.

For inside the ten, I don't know they need to develop some kind of specific package for that, and Pryor needs to understand that his best weapon there is his legs + the THREAT of passing. He's too big and fast to not be looking to take advantage on the ground.

Never want to see him trying to thread the needle on the 5.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:47 pm

JCoz wrote:For inside the ten, I don't know they need to develop some kind of specific package for that, and Pryor needs to understand that his best weapon there is his legs + the THREAT of passing. He's too big and fast to not be looking to take advantage on the ground.


I think part of the problem is the fact that we don't have that MoC/Beanie-type bell-cow runner who we can lean on in the red zone. Pryor, for all his size, speed and strength, is not that guy. He spends too much time running laterally.

It is nitpicking somewhat, considering we just beat the 12th ranked team in the country easily, but my expectations for this team are through the roof. The Buckeyes have every opportunity to make this a vintage kind of season. I'd hate to see the opportunity lost because they don't finish drives well enough.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:52 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
JCoz wrote:For inside the ten, I don't know they need to develop some kind of specific package for that, and Pryor needs to understand that his best weapon there is his legs + the THREAT of passing. He's too big and fast to not be looking to take advantage on the ground.


I think part of the problem is the fact that we don't have that MoC/Beanie-type bell-cow runner who we can lean on in the red zone. Pryor, for all his size, speed and strength, is not that guy. He spends too much time running laterally.

It is nitpicking somewhat, considering we just beat the 12th ranked team in the country easily, but my expectations for this team are through the roof. The Buckeyes have every opportunity to make this a vintage kind of season. I'd hate to see the opportunity lost because they don't finish drives well enough.


Got a nice couple opportunities to try some things out in the next two weeks.

Hyde might have been/might be that RB but he's injured for the time being. We'll see how it plays out.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby danwismar » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:20 pm

I guess I'm not as concerned about TP threading the needle from down close as Coz is.

I love the quick flip out to Boren in the flat that they tried and missed on, for example. He has also shown the ability to hit quick slants to Dane or Posey inside the 10-yard line. The rollout and drag pattern to Stoney was there for a TD...and not especially risky, and was a TD with a better throw from Pryor. Clearly he has had MUCH better days with his accuracy on short-to-intermediate throws...I don't think it will be an ongoing issue.

I think the threat of the pass needs to be there...as long as it's low-risk, high-percentage type throws. That opens up the playbook for draws, options, etc. I'd love to see more option running in the red zone. (Of course, they did do it on the Herron TD from the 4.)

With the possible exception of Iowa, no other team on the schedule will be playing as tight in coverage as this Miami team did. They went with some zone early, but quickly moved to a tight man to man, apparently unconcerned about the big play (which only burned them once) It turned out to be a good strategy on balance, I thought, especially since they were putting pressure on TP. The windows for TP to throw into were pretty tight. That said, there were way too many dumb and/or inaccurate passes in the game by TP.

The down side of the strategy was getting toasted by Pryor on running plays when the pass play broke down....the same dilemma every single team we face will have to deal with.

I think Miami will crush most teams on their schedule, and I can see them winning ten games, counting a bowl game. (10-3....maybe better)

I was very glad to see Pryor get out of this game without injury. I had real concerns about the Canes cheap-shotting him (which I do think they did on a couple late hits) as some sort of Willis McGahee revenge deal. There was a lot of talk about this pre-game on Miami message boards. ("how confident are the Buckeyes in their backup QB?" -type of stuff...not from players of course, but disturbing talk nonetheless.)

Agree with Herm that the Bucks have lots of good backs but no great ones. I have mixed feelings after rewatching the game about whether the problem with the run-blocking was more predictable play-calling once JT got the double-digit lead, and a determination by Miami to shut down the run game at all costs...(which also means OSU had not made them respect the downfield passing near enough)or if it was just the OSU O-linemen getting handled by what was a very good Miami D-line.

Some of both I guess.

Agree with Coz that the OSU tackles played very well. Bailey was a force early in the game stuffing a couple of running plays, but I don't think he laid a hand on Pryor in the backfield...seemed like most of the time he was working against Shugarts...but on the other side, I don't think I heard Olivier Vernon's name called more than once all day long working against Mike Adams. For all the talk about the Hurricane pass rush, Pryor was sacked once for a six yard loss....which (I think) was on a designed run play where he got tackled for a loss going to the sidelines.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:20 pm

I have not read this whole thread, so apologies. I just kept hearing in the preseason about how awesome our run game was gonna be, consequently freeing up TP and the passing game. I was disappointed in our inability to play Tressel ball seemingly at all and move the ball on the ground with the lead. Smash mouth running game? Muscle vs Speed. We depended solely on the legs of TP. That is not Tressel ball. Seems 'Bama has themselves a running game even without their Heisman back.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:19 am

OldDawg wrote:I have not read this whole thread, so apologies. I just kept hearing in the preseason about how awesome our run game was gonna be, consequently freeing up TP and the passing game. I was disappointed in our inability to play Tressel ball seemingly at all and move the ball on the ground with the lead. Smash mouth running game? Muscle vs Speed. We depended solely on the legs of TP. That is not Tressel ball. Seems 'Bama has themselves a running game even without their Heisman back.


I think this is a product of the Talent on the Miami D line. I read at least one preview with a writer saying that this may be the most talented unit in the country. Everyone said this is one of the most talented Dlines in the country, but this one said this was the most talented unit period.

Now, regardless of how far you want to take it, there is a consensus that it was one of the best we will see, including the bowl game.

Pregame interviews with Randy Shannon revealed that their main goal would be to stop the OSU rushing attack, particularly the BACKS.

With alot of time left to hone in this offense, and considering the talent of opposition with thier intentions coming in, I will not fault this too much. Room for a lot of improvement, but if you are being overly critical I think maybe you under rate the line we just went against.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:22 am

wiz1001 wrote:I guess I'm not as concerned about TP threading the needle from down close as Coz is.

I love the quick flip out to Boren in the flat that they tried and missed on, for example. He has also shown the ability to hit quick slants to Dane or Posey inside the 10-yard line. The rollout and drag pattern to Stoney was there for a TD...and not especially risky, and was a TD with a better throw from Pryor. Clearly he has had MUCH better days with his accuracy on short-to-intermediate throws...I don't think it will be an ongoing issue.

I think the threat of the pass needs to be there...as long as it's low-risk, high-percentage type throws. That opens up the playbook for draws, options, etc. I'd love to see more option running in the red zone. (Of course, they did do it on the Herron TD from the 4.)

With the possible exception of Iowa, no other team on the schedule will be playing as tight in coverage as this Miami team did. They went with some zone early, but quickly moved to a tight man to man, apparently unconcerned about the big play (which only burned them once) It turned out to be a good strategy on balance, I thought, especially since they were putting pressure on TP. The windows for TP to throw into were pretty tight. That said, there were way too many dumb and/or inaccurate passes in the game by TP.

The down side of the strategy was getting toasted by Pryor on running plays when the pass play broke down....the same dilemma every single team we face will have to deal with.

I think Miami will crush most teams on their schedule, and I can see them winning ten games, counting a bowl game. (10-3....maybe better)

I was very glad to see Pryor get out of this game without injury. I had real concerns about the Canes cheap-shotting him (which I do think they did on a couple late hits) as some sort of Willis McGahee revenge deal. There was a lot of talk about this pre-game on Miami message boards. ("how confident are the Buckeyes in their backup QB?" -type of stuff...not from players of course, but disturbing talk nonetheless.)

Agree with Herm that the Bucks have lots of good backs but no great ones. I have mixed feelings after rewatching the game about whether the problem with the run-blocking was more predictable play-calling once JT got the double-digit lead, and a determination by Miami to shut down the run game at all costs...(which also means OSU had not made them respect the downfield passing near enough)or if it was just the OSU O-linemen getting handled by what was a very good Miami D-line.

Some of both I guess.

Agree with Coz that the OSU tackles played very well. Bailey was a force early in the game stuffing a couple of running plays, but I don't think he laid a hand on Pryor in the backfield...seemed like most of the time he was working against Shugarts...but on the other side, I don't think I heard Olivier Vernon's name called more than once all day long working against Mike Adams. For all the talk about the Hurricane pass rush, Pryor was sacked once for a six yard loss....which (I think) was on a designed run play where he got tackled for a loss going to the sidelines.


Dan you are right, I think I way overgeneralized the passing close to the endzone after one of TP's worst as far as short passing game accuracy goes.

There has been some success passing there, from posey to boren.

And it does drive me nuts if I see a guy like pryor pass up what looks like a sure TD running the ball to throw on the run in that situation. Sure, I'll trade a 1st down for a good % throw for a big pass play downfield, but I'd rather not see us take a chance throwing the ball for a 15 yard(can't remember the exact yardage on the play)TD vs running for a 15 yard TD.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:04 pm

JT addresses the special teams coverage problems at Tuesday's press conference:

(via buckeyesports.com)

“There are different spots on the field where technique has to change,” Tressel said. “The first half of the kickoff, for instance, you can avoid (a blocker) and get back in your lane. When you get to the second half of the kickoff, you can't avoid and in all three long kickoff returns, our two and their one, there were people in the second half of the play going around blocks, avoiding as opposed to taking on blocks and holding gap integrity and so forth. So what can you do? You can do it right, just like any other play.”

He said they would also contemplate personnel changes on those units.

Immediately after the game, he was in no mood to get into it...here's his exchange with a reporter in post-game press conference:

REPORTER: The first time in school history that a team has returned a punt and a kickoff in the same game against you guys, is the special teams becoming --

COACH TRESSEL: I'll put that in my memoirs. That's really good. I'm really happy you brought that up. What do you want me to do? They ran them. Are we concerned? Of course. Can you win typically if that happens? No. But the good news is, our guys didn't fold and they -- they know we've got to get better at that.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:16 pm

CJ Barnett is having knee surgery (today?) and is done for the season. Obviously a tough break for the kid who played so well on Saturday. Orhian Johnson is now the man at safety....which isn't exactly a problem. The kid won the job in the spring and summer, and he has unbelievable athletic ability and great size (6'2", 205) for a safety. On one 4th quarter play Saturday, he came up on a running play and chopped down Damien Berry at the sideline, and Berry could barely get up to walk off the field.

OJ went down with a calf injury this August, and Barnett played well enough in his place to remain first string when the season opened, but OJ can play, and he's back to 100%.

BTW, it's OR' Ree Uhn ...as in DeLorean.
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Re: Canes v Buckeyes

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:53 pm

I was just coming here to post the comments on ST's...beat me to it wiz.

People on here know that I'm a staunch defender of Tressel, and its pretty far out of character to be so snarky post-game after a win I would think...I think part of that was how raw he was feeling on the matter himself - probably didn't need anyone telling him more about it - The coaches had the team in FULL PADS the next day if what I read was correct.

But if tress gets upset with some criticism after a win, we can tell him fans use a grading system very much like his own...sorry coach, but you might make it through an undefeated championship season without getting a passing grade, lol!

He could only say "touche" to that, even if bucks fans are less constructive in their criticisms....
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