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Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

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Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:59 pm

Sessions deal appears to be drawing closer.

http://twitter.com/pdcavsinsider

Also aggressively shopping Redz, perhaps in conjunction with other players. No idea if the Delonte and Sessions rumors are hand-in-hand.

If a Sessions deal does come to pass, just make this the discussion thread. I'll alter the title.
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Re: Cavs in "advanced talks" for Sessions

Unread postby Doc » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:12 pm

Well, I think this is about the best we're going to do with Redz' deal. It's been talked about too much. Probably just a matter of whether it's Redz for Sessions/Koufos or if it's expanded beyond that (3 way with Portland, etc). Here's to hoping there's no picks being sent out (as was rumored), unless we get Brewer or something else worthwhile.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Also some rumors with Shaq to Boston for Avery Bradley (about Boston's only worthwhile asset in a deal). That would seem to leave a glut at PG. With or without Bradley, I'd imagine we'd have to look at Sessions as a starter. So, if we land Sessions, what are the odds Mo Williams is then dealt? I know Portland had some interest in Mo, but I'm not sure if that was Pritchard or the new regime.
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Re: Cavs in "advanced talks" for Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:22 pm

Yeah, Boston is going to trade the first real back-up Rondo has ever had (and a legit talent) for Shaq.

Ha.
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Re: Cavs in "advanced talks" for Sessions

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:30 pm

Rumors that Ryan Hollins would be included in the deal as well.

Its going to be very tough for me to root for Sessions. 2 years ago, as the freshly minted starting PG for the Bucks, he was picked up by my opponent in my fantasy basketball championship round. He went for 65 assists in 4 games (including 24 in one game), and I ultimately lost by 1 assist. Goddammit it. Just hearing his name pisses me off. Was my worst beat ever until Sundiatta Gaines fucked me out of a $100 4 team parlay.

But back OT, how does Sessions fit in, assuming Mo is still here?
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Re: Cavs in "advanced talks" for Sessions

Unread postby Orenthal » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:08 pm

I was really hoping the Cavaliers would buy a pick to grab Bradley during the draft. In college the guy was a poor man's Rondo, and jumped to the NBA a year earlier. Any S&T for Shaq will bring back little if anything. Probably a second round pick...

With the Celtics over the cap, and Cavaliers over the cap I am not really sure what the contents of any deal would be... Matching $, Trade Excpetion, ability to deal for just a pick...
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Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:51 pm

SpearsNBAYahoo Cleveland trades Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair to Minnesota for Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and a draft pick, a source told Y! Sports.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

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West and Telfair to Minny

Unread postby StewieG » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:51 pm

For Sessions, Ryan Hollins, and a draft pick.

SpearsNBAYahoo

Cleveland trades Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair to Minnesota for Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and a draft pick, a source told Y! Sports.
8 minutes ago via TweetDeck
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby waborat » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Redz is taking his talents to North Beach
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:59 pm

Minnesota and Miami are pretty far apart. I guess Gloria has some thinking to do.
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby CP » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:16 pm

I hope he doesn't end up like this...

http://wcco.com/topstories/Eddie.Griffi ... 59712.html

Of course, Griffin's next issue with a car sent him into a moving train and ended what was left of his life. Some sad similarities to Delonte.
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Re: West and Telfair to Minny

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:22 pm

StewieG wrote:For Sessions, Ryan Hollins, and a draft pick.

SpearsNBAYahoo

Cleveland trades Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair to Minnesota for Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and a draft pick, a source told Y! Sports.
8 minutes ago via TweetDeck


Merged yours into this one Stewie since there were a couple posts in this one.

Thanks
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:27 pm

waborat wrote:Redz is taking his talents to North Beach


And by "Talents" i mean hide your fried chicken and old bitches
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby CP » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:30 pm

Approximate Cavs salary commitments:

BEFORE TRADE:
10/11 50.32 mil
11/12 39.97 mil
12/13 21.62 mil

AFTER TRADE:
10/11 49.25 mil
11/12 46.71 mil
12/13 26.24 mil
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:15 pm

SpearsNBAYahoo Wolves will waive Delonte West, source tells Y! Sports.
7 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
Retweeted by WojYahooNBA and 29 others
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:20 pm

SpearsNBAYahoo

Wolves Jonny Flynn expected to be out 3-4 months after hip surgery next week, NBA sources tell Y! Sports. Missed summer league with injury.


So, intelligent move is to trade the next best option you have on the team. Phew.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:25 pm

All the hot, hot Redz on Gloria on ex-Minny bench players action now in one convenient topic.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby waborat » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:34 pm

Now that West is gone, Windy should be tweeting any minute about what positions and fantasies him & Gloria liked ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:20 pm

I always had a soft spot for Redz, personal troubles and all. Hopefully he can land on his feet somewhere else.

Sessions is intriguing, I wonder if we're on Mo Gotti watch now.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Orenthal » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:20 pm

I'll wait to tomorrow to give something in depth, besides the obvious, but at the very least you traded 2 guards and only got 1 back. This team was nothing but combo guards and small power forwards. We got a stiff center, haven't taken a second to look at guy, now some work needs done on the small forward position.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:38 pm

Orenthal wrote: We got a stiff center, haven't taken a second to look at guy...


Hollins is 7-feet, 230 pounds and 25 years old. He averaged a career-best 6.1 PPG and 2.8 PPG in a career-high 16.8 MPG last year for Minny, and is apparently a pretty good high jumper per his Wikipedia entry.

Seems like the guy is a natural athlete. At 25, given that he set career highs in PPG, RPG, MPG and FG PCT last year, I'll give him a shot.

Would be nice if he could pack on another 20-30 pounds of girth. At 230, he's not exactly going to be a brick wall defending the post.
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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:06 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:
SpearsNBAYahoo

Wolves Jonny Flynn expected to be out 3-4 months after hip surgery next week, NBA sources tell Y! Sports. Missed summer league with injury.


So, intelligent move is to trade the next best option you have on the team. Phew.


The Wolves did sign Luke Ridnour to a four-year deal last week. So Flynn is depth. And depth probably really isn't that important to the Wolves, who want to win about 17 games and angle for the most ping-pong balls next spring.

Already seems like a foregone conclusion that the Wolves will waive Delonte and his partially-guaranteed walk year.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby waborat » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:19 am

papacass wrote:
is apparently a pretty good high jumper per his Wikipedia entry.



So's Moondog
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:45 am

papacass wrote:
Orenthal wrote: We got a stiff center, haven't taken a second to look at guy...


Hollins is 7-feet, 230 pounds and 25 years old. He averaged a career-best 6.1 PPG and 2.8 PPG in a career-high 16.8 MPG last year for Minny, and is apparently a pretty good high jumper per his Wikipedia entry.

Seems like the guy is a natural athlete. At 25, given that he set career highs in PPG, RPG, MPG and FG PCT last year, I'll give him a shot.

Would be nice if he could pack on another 20-30 pounds of girth. At 230, he's not exactly going to be a brick wall defending the post.


This is odd for the fact when watching him at UCLA it looked as be wasn't athletic enough to contribute in the modern NBA. He looked like a guy, well, that might have a career season high of 6 points a game.

Maybe he suffered in Howland's system.... but based on waht I saw, don't expect much.

We'll see for sure on this team.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:16 am

Ramonnnnnnnne, bring me a guard with some talent!
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:21 am

waborat wrote:
papacass wrote:
is apparently a pretty good high jumper per his Wikipedia entry.



So's Moondog


I kinda assumed Hollins wasn't using a trampoline. But you never know, if this whole NBA thing doesn't work out for him, maybe he has a future in SlamBall. They still play SlamBall, right? I think I saw it on Spike TV at about 1 in the afternoon. Couldn't have been too long ago.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:48 am

I'd like to get excited about Sessions, because he seems like a legit talent that a lot of people in these parts wanted to add....

Now i'd just like to see who he is going to distribute the ball to for scoring touches, outside of Hickson and Tawn. No swing men with touch around the hoop on this team, yet.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:16 am

waborat wrote:
papacass wrote:
is apparently a pretty good high jumper per his Wikipedia entry.



So's Moondog

Good. Maybe now we can trade Moondog for a real mascot.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:20 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:I'd like to get excited about Sessions, because he seems like a legit talent that a lot of people in these parts wanted to add....

Now i'd just like to see who he is going to distribute the ball to for scoring touches, outside of Hickson and Tawn. No swing men with touch around the hoop on this team, yet.


The Cavs will deal for a starting SF before the season starts. They still have one major thing working for them: an owner willing to absorb salary.

I'll still keep my hopes up for Danny Granger. Marvin Williams would be a decent consolation prize.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:00 pm

Yeah, Granger or Williams would be sweet. Line us right up for a 5-7 seed and perpetual meh.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:22 pm

Dwuer weighs in, and he doesnt like the move for either side.

And, Cleveland? You're still pretending to use stopgaps?

But if you're going to try and back up Mo Williams with the same version of himself, minus all that accurate shooting? Then you're mistaking yourself for a team that actually matters. And, worse, wasting your fandom's time. Kindly rebuild, soon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... ng-content
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:23 pm

Hey, don't forget, we'll be able to reload every year for the next decade with a dozen 2nd round draft picks.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:28 pm

That's true.

Our D-League affiliate is going to be a force.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby scott » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:36 pm

Is Delonte toxic at this point? Someone will give him a chance, but I don't know who. Won't be back here.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:40 pm

Delonte wont have a problem finding a home. He had a great 08-09 campaign, in one of the first seasons they let him play primarily at the 2. He's undersized but plays tenacious D, can play some PG in a pinch....he's just a nutbag.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby scott » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:52 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Delonte wont have a problem finding a home. He had a great 08-09 campaign, in one of the first seasons they let him play primarily at the 2. He's undersized but plays tenacious D, can play some PG in a pinch....he's just a nutbag.


Don't discount the nutbag part. You want a rotation guy that you aren't sure is going to show up every day? That's the impression I got from the Cavs last season.

he needs to convince someone he's got his shit straight to get a chance.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:02 pm

scott wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:Delonte wont have a problem finding a home. He had a great 08-09 campaign, in one of the first seasons they let him play primarily at the 2. He's undersized but plays tenacious D, can play some PG in a pinch....he's just a nutbag.


Don't discount the nutbag part. You want a rotation guy that you aren't sure is going to show up every day? That's the impression I got from the Cavs last season.

he needs to convince someone he's got his shit straight to get a chance.


Yep. The leaguewide impression of Delonte is that he's not reliable. I'm sure someone will invite him to camp, but he's got a lot of proving to do before he sees another guaranteed multiyear contract. I think he's going to end up being a basketball vagabond for the rest of his playing days.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:06 pm

To be fair he was a vagabond for the entirety of his playing days...
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:42 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Dwuer weighs in, and he doesnt like the move for either side.

And, Cleveland? You're still pretending to use stopgaps?

But if you're going to try and back up Mo Williams with the same version of himself, minus all that accurate shooting? Then you're mistaking yourself for a team that actually matters. And, worse, wasting your fandom's time. Kindly rebuild, soon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... ng-content



I admit, I haven't seen much of Sessions, but from what I remember of his last half season in Milwaukee, and just quickly perusing the numbers, he's much more of a true point guard than Mo. His per 36-min averages for AST:TO from that Bucks season was 7.5:2.5, whereas Mo's career AST:TO ratio per 36-min is 5.7:2.7. He's also taller, makes less money, and has the potential to get better seeing as he only got a chance at regular playing time for half a season. At this point we know what Mo is, let Sessions start at the point from day one.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:49 pm

Unless the Cavs are planning on a massive overhaul soon - trading away big parts like Mo Williams(notes) and Antawn Jamison(notes) for cap relief, draft picks, young prospects; or any combination of the three - the team is just deluding itself


Last I checked, Cleveland doesn't need "cap relief" because they are still well under the cap. Also, Sessions is young and has upside. (Vs. Delonte, who is completely useless to this current team for future planning)

Collins is also young and has "end of the rotation" big capability.

Hate to pull Ey's string, but this article was dropped a little early. Save the vitriol for the move that hamstrings Cleveland with a bad contract to compete now.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:28 pm

TouchEmAllTime wrote:Ramonnnnnnnne, bring me a guard with some talent!


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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:44 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Dwuer weighs in, and he doesnt like the move for either side.

And, Cleveland? You're still pretending to use stopgaps?

But if you're going to try and back up Mo Williams with the same version of himself, minus all that accurate shooting? Then you're mistaking yourself for a team that actually matters. And, worse, wasting your fandom's time. Kindly rebuild, soon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... ng-content

So I kept reading that column, wondering if Dwyer would get the fact the Cavs likely made this deal in order to turn an asset (ie: Delonte's unguaranteed deal, better than an expiring contract) into another asset. Even if the player they acquired doesn't turn them into much more than they are, he is a valuable guy (esp considering they can get him minutes) and young, and can be used in another deal at some point.

And hell, how many more games are they going to win with Ramon Sessions? He gonna be the difference between this team making the playoffs or lottery? Not damn likely, so even if they don't plan to move him they at least have a young, talented piece around whatever (potential) star they eventually can bring in and build around.

But I guess it would be better to have the roster completely gutted and manned by the likes of Lamond Murray, Ricky Davis, and Darius Miles by the time that comes around. It'll be different this time, right?

Fortunately, Dwyer got the first point.
I'll give them the same optimistic bent I gave the Timberwolves last summer. If they're picking up Sessions as an asset — a good scoring guard who is worth twice what he makes and has a contract that, with a player option after two more seasons, expires soon — then good on them. This is sound value for money, and players.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:47 pm

The point isn't that adding Sessions was bad, it was that Mo needs to be on the first ship out of town.

Keep the young and cheap and dump the expensive and not young enough.

I've got no issues w/ this deal, but I hope it's step one in a rebuild. If we go through the entire seasons w/ Mo and Jamo the deal is pretty pointless, unless we do plan on spinning him as an asset (I do trust we'll use him as an asset, unlike Kahn) and Dwyer acknowledged said fact.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby scott » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:42 am

Rumored that the Celtics might give Redz a chance. Makes sense.

He's played there before so maybe they feel like they know how to handle him. They lost Tony Allen to free agency and need another wing defender - especially against the Heat. This gets them in Bron's head even before a playoff series starts.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:04 pm

scott wrote:Rumored that the Celtics might give Redz a chance. Makes sense.

He's played there before so maybe they feel like they know how to handle him. They lost Tony Allen to free agency and need another wing defender - especially against the Heat. This gets them in Bron's head even before a playoff series starts.


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Re: Delonte West is a Former Cavalier

Unread postby jb » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:45 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
waborat wrote:Redz is taking his talents to North Beach


And by "Talents" i mean hide your fried chicken and old bitches



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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:23 am

Redz would be a great fit on the Celtics, and was a fan favorite when he was playing for those garbage Celtics pre-big 3 teams. Same role as Tony Allen; good defense off the bench, but with added bonus of actually being able to play on both sides of the floor.

Mo Williams is 27 years old. I'd consider him "young enough" to use 2-3 years from now if the Cavs can be competitive. His defense is the only downside, and his production could really spike from a) not having lebron killing his game and b) an uptempo offense.

Wouldn't mind seeing Sessions start and Mo come off the bench, though.(I read somewhere that Scott was considering using the both of them on the floor at the same time though, which could be dicey)
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:27 am

I hate to continue to belabor the point, but I seriously have NFC what is best for this team in the next two years. I don't want to go into super-tank-for-prospects mode and try to catch the most ping pong balls, because even if you get a star you're stuck without a supporting cast for the next half decade.

Conversely, this team wont be able to do anything (personnel wise) in the next 2 years to get to same zip code as the Atlanta Hawks, and the Hawks get trounced every year.

Frustrating.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:13 pm

Here's the question you have to ask yourself Grady, in three to five years years do you want to be the Kings, Bucks or OKC or do you want to spend the next five years being the Sixers and slowly deteriorating your way to that top three pick in the name of "staying competitive" and still nowhere near rebuilt
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:01 pm

Obviously option A is better, but how it requires two things that we're not sure we have: A cogent front office that can keep us from wallowing in our own bad decisions (like the sixers, or LAC, either NY teams, Minny, etc) and the luck of actually GETTING the ping pong balls when we bottom out for a season or two.

The Bulls managed to get Rose while "staying competitive" and the Celts got Jeff Green's draft rights for deliberately tanking it. I don't root for 43 win seasons and the 8th seed, but doesn't make any sense to just deliberately suck if there's no reward for it.

The situation just inspires a shitwhack of "meh"....lot of chances for the front office to hose this up.
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Re: Buh-bye Redz, hello Sessions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:10 pm

Actually, LAC and the Nets have a lot of young talent as well. Talent the Sixers are envious of and that is further down the development path then them. The problems of LAC and the Nets haven't been acquiring talent, they have been death by FA and just needing time to grow.

Don't need to hit #1 to get to that level of having young talents potential studs either (read: Kings).

Not sure how you figure the Bulls didn't tank either, it was a decade of blowing that lined up the sun moon and stars for Rose (combined w/ a retarded front office).

You get into the top ten and you do it for a few years. That's how you build teams. Everyone that talks about tanking pretends like you need to draft the next LBJ to be relevant. Teams like the Kings and Bucks are one Reke/Cousins or Jennings (or GSW w/ Curry) evolution away from really mattering. None of those guys were drafted at #1 and none of them where "the next big thing"

You collect talent, you draft well enough and you will eventually have a foundation. Right now we don't even have that. WAR: 27 year old second tier PGs and 32 year old second tier PFs running your team to mediocrity!!!!

Hell, OKC is the outlier because of how perfectly things lined up, but they are only one of a TON of teams that sucked for some stretch over the last five years and has a roster I would trade ours for tomorrow.

And keep on collecting draft picks, turn Jamo and Mo into more, more more.

Not to mention the freaking haul we can get for Andy from a contender right now.
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