The Rebuild

[WarAdmiral]

They need to blow it up. Sign and Trade should be considered over screwing the queen. Garner as many picks and young talent as possible and give Scott a big say in who that young talent is, when it comes to players with league experience.

The last thing I want to see is a repeat of the Fratello years. Always drafting late teens, and never getting out of the first round.

[Spin]

How do you blow this team up? These guys are all under contract and if you cut them, they're still on the books.

Since we're under the cap, we can trade and not worry about staying within X% of salary either way, but how many other teams are under the cap? Who want what we have?

Here's our contract structure: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm Unless we take on expiring contracts and wait it out with West, Telfair, and Williams (I assume we build around Hixson). But with the lockout looming after next season, who knows how far the cap will drop?

I think we're painted into a corner now.

Bring on the Coyotes. They'll easily draw more than the Monsters and help offset the loss of Cavs empty seats. Might even have to open the upper tier on the weekends...

[CP]

One thing everyone should agree on: it's not hard to blow up a team in the NBA. Such a disparity in the league exists that the top teams will always take on talent, even overpaid talent, that expires in a year or two. They don't even care if that player sits on the bench.

Wonder if Cavs might even be able to even trade Jamison for Dampier's non-guaranteed expiring contract. I'd take a flier with Josh Howard at the wing, as well, if he's healthy, on a short-term deal.

[jb]

The Rebuild is simple, get to the lottery, win it and get me Harrison Barnes.

Fuck the rest of the noise.

Gilbert wants to play plug and play for the next five years rolling w/ more good to fringe all-star vets he can blow me.

^^^^

Nails it.

[daddywags]

IMhO, the team as it sits right now is not a playoff team. It will win somewhere between 20-35 games. That's fine for this season, AFAIC, especially if a guy like JJ develops and we're able to pick up a couple extra draft picks by helping teams cut salary either for luxury tax avoidance or for 2011-12. Fans could get excited by a top 5 draft pick along with a couple other first round picks and a decent free agent pick-up next summer. Personally, I'd forget about the free agent pick-up, but if we're one of only a few teams with major cap space who knows what could happen.

I agree with Swerb, though, right now there's no way Dan Gilbert lets this team fall to the 25 win stage. He's going to do something stupid like trading for Darren Collison and taking on Emeka Okafor's terrible contract or giving Richard Jefferson a 5 year free agent contract. Or both. Hell, I should shut up before I give him ideas.

[swerb]

The two key guys they gotta make calls on are Jamison and Mo. Will their offense-minded (play no D in the halfcourt) games be a better fit in the Byron Scott more high tempo atttack?

I think you can still get like 90 cents on the dollar for Mo from a team in the West that plays an up tempo attack. Jamison ... his contract and playoff bitch slapping at the hands of a creaky kneed KG will make it tough to get more than 60-70 cents on the dollar. But he's getting no better. And has had knee issues I'd be scared will flare back up as he enters his mid 30s.

I'd look to move both guys. Rebuild (which I prefer) ... or reload (which is what Gilbert will do).

Hickson, Andy ... no way I trade either. No way I move any young talented big guys we control for a few more years.

[CP]

I think he has at least learned to try to maintain more salary and cap flexibility. Grant is going to go Shapiro on us and go after some low risk guys on short-term deals to try and bridge the gap.

I'm talking Tracy McGrady, Nate Robinson, Al Harrington, Shannon Brown, Shaun Livingston, Eddie House, Marquis Daniels, Acie Law, etc. Guys who just want to go somewhere to get minutes and improve their chances at a contract no one will give them now.

[CP]

Jamison ... his contract and playoff bitch slapping at the hands of a creaky kneed KG will make it tough to get more than 60-70 cents on the dollar. But he's getting no better. And has had knee issues I'd be scared will flare back up as he enters his mid 30s.

I'd be elated if we could get Damp's contract back from Jamo, just to get out from under the 2011-12 number. That 15 million could be better spent elsewhere.

[e0y2e3]

I trade Andy in a second, as he's our most valuable trade piece and by the time we are ready for a ring he'll be too old for his hustle and kill style.

Love Andy to death, but it's a very Indians-esque situation w/ him.

[e0y2e3]

Jamison ... his contract and playoff bitch slapping at the hands of a creaky kneed KG will make it tough to get more than 60-70 cents on the dollar. But he's getting no better. And has had knee issues I'd be scared will flare back up as he enters his mid 30s.

I'd be elated if we could get Damp's contract back from Jamo, just to get out from under the 2011-12 number. That 15 million could be better spent elsewhere.

Now that's not a bad idea at all. Not sure he fits well on a team that already has Marion at PF, but certainly worth a phone call or eight.

[CP]

I was thinking he'd be Dallas' 6th man. Played that role very well when he was there and I doubt Cuban cares one second about the money.

[e0y2e3]

I was thinking he'd be Dallas' 6th man. Played that role very well when he was there and I doubt Cuban cares one second about the money.

Oh I get it, was more so talking about the fact that Marion and Jamo give you very similar looks, not much flexibility.

But w/ Cuban you never know, he did recreate the 2005 All-Star game last year in Dallas.

[daddywags]

I've got no problem holding onto Jamo for two years (maybe 1-1/2 if something comes along). We've got plenty of cap room this summer and next and, really, somebody's got to score points for this team. We want to tear down but we don't really want to become a laughing stock. I can live with Williams, too. His contract is pretty much in line with his worth and there's no guarantee he picks up his player option in 2012-13. I think he's tradable and would be looking for nice return for him, not just a salary dump.

Varejao I would look to trade. He's a valuable piece off the bench for a contending team, but we won't be that for the next few years. We should be able to use his $8-9 million salary money elsewhere while rebuilding and get a nice return from some contending team for his services. (I'm expecting that if he stays his performance will go down because he's no longer able to take advantage of pick-and-rolls with LeBron. If he starts to take more shots "because he can" he'll look even worse.) Now's the time to move Andy, IMO.

[jb]

We want to tear down but we don't really want to become a laughing stock.

We're azlready a laughing stock once the sympathy wears off.


There can be no middle ground. If the Cavs win more than 20 games next season they're doing this wrong.

Crap. I forgot. I'm done with them.

[Orenthal]

You can be like the Bulls pick wrong and suck for 12+ years too...

Eye I know we have been down this road, I'm pretty sure I lost the debate, but I still have problems with the tank method being assigned ZERO risk by the people pushing it...

We trust Grant to be Presti? For us to have that luck with picks, when the NBA draft is aboput as crapshoot as it gets outside of picks 1 and 2?

I'll give up early in the debate, just want some GD risk assigned to the no brainer plan.

[e0y2e3]

You can be like the Bulls pick wrong and suck for 12+ years too...

Eye I know we have been down this road, I'm pretty sure I lost the debate, but I still have problems with the tank method being assigned ZERO risk by the people pushing it...

We trust Grant to be Presti? For us to have that luck with picks, when the NBA draft is aboput as crapshoot as it gets outside of picks 1 and 2?

I'll give up early in the debate, just want some GD risk assigned to the no brainer plan.

12+ years?

How many playoff appearances do the Bulls have in the last five?

And they had Elton Brand and a great core at one point. I would hope we would have a GM smart enough to not dump an Elton Brand for an Eddy Curry.

And I would hope our young talent PG wouldn't crash a motorcycle while just starting his career.

Etc...

[aoxo1]

Who is saying it is zero risk?

[e0y2e3]

FOR OJ:

langwhitaker: Maybe the Cavs should put in a call to Iverson?

[CP]

This guy is much more likely than AI: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... ayerId=532

[Cease]

This guy is much more likely than AI: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... ayerId=532

I hear Mel Turpin avai- oh, right. Nevermind.

[Orenthal]

The ones saying it is the only way, like its fool proof. I just see an absence of people suggesting you actually have to HIT on your picks not just gather them. Have to sign the right guys long term, trade for the right filler, hope the climate stays warm for your assets, hope you don't win too quickly to push yourself out of the top 5-7 in the year after the first pick. Blah Blah Blah.

I see alot of do it like this and win. Like that plan is easy. Do it any other way yer stoopid. I am not going back to quote box everything to satisfy a one line response.

Eye's whole Chicago reverse argument prooves my point, but your too stubborn to se it, and I am too lazy to point out why...

Brand lead to mediocre, was traded for wrong young player, more poor/redundant picks were made, lots of being 6-8 seeds. All while following the plan. Even the standout example OKC is in the 5th year, Sac town is in year 4 with 25 wins and possibly on the cusp, this isn't something that is fool proof or short term. Those teams were 8th seed and 25 wins. IOW still a ways to go, and I don't think even OKC next year is considered a Finals team, that is year 6.

Other teams never stop tanking. I have maybe one more almost coherent post before I fizzle.

[Orenthal]

For Eye
So playoff contention is good enough? Not legit deep playoff team? I just don't have the faith in Grant, at this moment, to pull it off. I think it is easier to stay relevant by doing what we have done the past few years. Obviously we are without the stud... Ah f it I have like 20 articles to read, and as I said we have been down this road. My feelings are known...

[Orenthal]

Windy just clarified the exception and it is 16 million. T-Mac is 1/3 of the way to my big 3 baby!

ETA
Oh Eye mention AI not T-Mac in that post. 2/3 named in this post. Only 1 more needed...

[CP]

Could do a lot worse than T-Mac... could do a lot better, too

[mswerb]

The Rebuild is simple, get to the lottery, win it and get me Harrison Barnes.

Fuck the rest of the noise.

Gilbert wants to play plug and play for the next five years rolling w/ more good to fringe all-star vets he can blow me.

Harrison Barnes= TarHeel
NICE

[FUDU]

I'm still 50/50 on blowin it up or going the route of the Pistons.

Either way you will need a legit FA signing and we must remember getting them will remain tough in this town. Lots of blame to go around for that, some on the FO (w/Ferry) and possibly more on LeBron. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Artest/Ariza both publicly say they would have come here in 09 if they knew LeBron was staying? I mean both of them filled a legit hole and could have significantly altered the course of our actions in the 2010 reg season. So if LeBron was not happy about this org not getting him "more help" he can look straight into a mirror b/c he is the guy who could not commit an answer to some of the FAs that simply wanted to know if he was staying. I know Ariza wanted to start as well, and no doubt in my mind he would have here after the Delonte issues.

So sorry James the lack of FA also fell heavily on your shoulders.

[e0y2e3]

For Eye
So playoff contention is good enough? Not legit deep playoff team? I just don't have the faith in Grant, at this moment, to pull it off. I think it is easier to stay relevant by doing what we have done the past few years. Obviously we are without the stud... Ah f it I have like 20 articles to read, and as I said we have been down this road. My feelings are known...

See, this is where you are missing the big picture. Playoff contention w/ a young stud who can possibly become an NBA title caliber star is enough.

It's well established that in tAssociation you only win the big cheese w/ one supreme being and another sidekick or two that are close to that level. If you can compete for the playoffs w/ two lottery picks being big timers on your team that have potential to take the next step you succeeded in your rebuild. From there it takes the basketball gawds pushing your stud to the next level.

KD is on the brink of becoming very possibly the best play in the NBA (he is the best scorer and he just last year started to figure out his freak body). The Bucks are stacked for a playoff run w/ a PG that could explode Rondo style (he also could fall flat on his face). The Kings are not yet to playoff levels but have a rookie that was just the fifth player in NBA history to go 20 5 and 5 as a rookie and he did it at age 20. He could end up being a ball hog fuck, he could develop (they also have Cousins... BOO-YA!!). The Bulls have a great East center and a PG that could take the next leap.

Judging these teams on not being a top seed is complete and utter bullshit. Getting those 5-8 seeds w/ young talent that has the potential to explode is the perfect NBA rebuild. The Bulls could have done this six times and had to literally take retard pills to not have it happen.

If those guys don't take the next step you adapt and move on before you pay them max dollars.

So goes life in the NBA.

Unless you want to keep praying you draft a Euro late because no one likes Euros (as the Mavs did) and have him turn into a top ten player and then plug and play, while having that plug and play revolve around the drafting of a bona-fide lottery talent named Jason Kidd.

[motherscratcher]

I'm still 50/50 on blowin it up or going the route of the Pistons.

Either way you will need a legit FA signing and we must remember getting them will remain tough in this town. Lots of blame to go around for that, some on the FO (w/Ferry) and possibly more on LeBron. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Artest/Ariza both publicly say they would have come here in 09 if they knew LeBron was staying? I mean both of them filled a legit hole and could have significantly altered the course of our actions in the 2010 reg season. So if LeBron was not happy about this org not getting him "more help" he can look straight into a mirror b/c he is the guy who could not commit an answer to some of the FAs that simply wanted to know if he was staying. I know Ariza wanted to start as well, and no doubt in my mind he would have here after the Delonte issues.

So sorry James the lack of FA also fell heavily on your shoulders.

This. This is the least talked about aspect of this whole debacle. I've seen it mentioned a few times in the approx 14,628 articles I've read today, but not much.

[e0y2e3]

The Rebuild is simple, get to the lottery, win it and get me Harrison Barnes.

Fuck the rest of the noise.

Gilbert wants to play plug and play for the next five years rolling w/ more good to fringe all-star vets he can blow me.

Harrison Barnes= TarHeel
NICE

I've been reading about Harrison Barnes for like five years.

More excited about him then Wall, by a good bit actually, as I think his game is more in the Kobe/Wade/LBJ mold.

Only question is if his genuine and absurd niceness carries onto the court.

[motherscratcher]

The Rebuild is simple, get to the lottery, win it and get me Harrison Barnes.

Fuck the rest of the noise.

Gilbert wants to play plug and play for the next five years rolling w/ more good to fringe all-star vets he can blow me.

Harrison Barnes= TarHeel
NICE

I've been reading about Harrison Barnes for like five years.

More excited about him then Wall, by a good bit actually, as I think his game is more in the Kobe/Wade/LBJ mold.

Only question is if his genuine and absurd niceness carries onto the court.

If Gilbert does the right thing and we end up in the lottery next year we better have a goddamn frozen envelope. Stern owes us that much for allowing that atrocity last night.

[peeker643]

My sources say Josh Childress on Cavs radar:

PDcavsinsider- Sources say the #Cavs are considering make an offer to Atlanta Hawks restricted free agent forward Josh Childress.
2 minutes ago via web

[fundamentals]

Josh Childress in Cleveland would be a nice start, in my opinion.
Somehow getting Al Jefferson wouldn't suck either.
In an interesting and probably impossible scenario, would like to see Carmelo Anthony come to Cleveland as a free agent after next season and lay waste to Larry, Curly and Blow in Miami.

[Triple-S]

Josh Childress in Cleveland would be a nice start, in my opinion.
Somehow getting Al Jefferson wouldn't suck either.
In an interesting and probably impossible scenario, would like to see Carmelo Anthony come to Cleveland as a free agent after next season and lay waste to Larry, Curly and Blow in Miami.

'Melo seems destined for the Knicks/Nets to me, but that's perhaps me just being cynical. Really couldn't blame him either, as that's his hometown and all.

If not for the whole LRMR move, I would have said CP3, and maybe that's not off the table either due to his relationship with Scott.

looking more and more like building through the draft though, is the most probable solution at this point.

[leadpipe]

Josh Childress in Cleveland would be a nice start, in my opinion.
Somehow getting Al Jefferson wouldn't suck either.
In an interesting and probably impossible scenario, would like to see Carmelo Anthony come to Cleveland as a free agent after next season and lay waste to Larry, Curly and Blow in Miami.

More than impossible. Melo and Bron are boys. The Gilby letter.....

[waborat]

Woulda liked an offer to Redick before the Bulls get him too

[daddywags]

I've been reading about Harrison Barnes for like five years.

More excited about him then Wall, by a good bit actually, as I think his game is more in the Kobe/Wade/LBJ mold.

That's a damn wide mold right about now. Is he closer to the Kobe end or the LBJ end?

[waborat]

I've been reading about Harrison Barnes for like five years.

More excited about him then Wall, by a good bit actually, as I think his game is more in the Kobe/Wade/LBJ mold.

That's a damn wide mold right about now. Is he closer to the Kobe end or the LBJ end?

In Lakewood, this would be known as the Butch or the Nellie

[Orenthal]

Christian Eyenga officially on the Summer League team. J and Danny Green also on the team with random mix of stiffs.

[Friday]

Windhorst just re-tweeted

Cavs free agent center Zydrunas Ilgauskas tells Miami Herald he's "looking into option" of joining buddy LeBron in Miami, likeky at vet min.

Say it ain't so.

[StewieG]

Windhorst just re-tweeted

Cavs free agent center Zydrunas Ilgauskas tells Miami Herald he's "looking into option" of joining buddy LeBron in Miami, likeky at vet min.

Say it ain't so.

Look, I love Z but I hope this is true. At this point he'll hurt more than he helps.

[e0y2e3]

Barnes is nowhere near LBJ, as LBJ is nukes on a basketball court. He is terror, explosions and the unimaginable. I wouldn't be surprised if no-one in our lives ever is LBJ.

But Barnes is smooth, like silk and can turn someone upsidedown w/ his jumper.

The question about him is and will remain "is his nice guy attitude going to turn him into a puss on the court"

It didn't w/ KD (who may very well end up the best of the Kobe-LBJ-KD triangle), but KD is a freak, both mentally and physically.

[Orenthal]

Windy article goes plug and play.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/cleveland_cavaliers_may_be_rea.html

The three players highlighted are Restricted Free Agents Kyle Lowry and Josh Childress, and Minny Timberwolves Al Jefferson.

Also has Qyntel Woods mentioned. Has played in Europe the past couple years.

[FUDU]

Barnes is nowhere near LBJ, as LBJ is nukes on a basketball court. He is terror, explosions and the unimaginable. I wouldn't be surprised if no-one in our lives ever is LBJ.

But Barnes is smooth, like silk and can turn someone upsidedown w/ his jumper.

The question about him is and will remain "is his nice guy attitude going to turn him into a puss on the court"

It didn't w/ KD (who may very well end up the best of the Kobe-LBJ-KD triangle), but KD is a freak, both mentally and physically.

I have to disagree with KD being a physical freak so to say. I do agree he has the much more pure bball skills than LBJ but Durant right now is not a physical nightmare, he isn't a physical mismatch night in and night out either. He has legit physical presence and plenty of physical upside but in the here and now is not close to being what LeBron is physically. Will he be, now in the post LeBron era era I am hoping so.

[FUDU]

Josh Childress in Cleveland would be a nice start, in my opinion.
Somehow getting Al Jefferson wouldn't suck either.
In an interesting and probably impossible scenario, would like to see Carmelo Anthony come to Cleveland as a free agent after next season and lay waste to Larry, Curly and Blow in Miami.

More than impossible. Melo and Bron are boys. The Gilby letter.....

What is impossible is to disagree with your point lead. However, at risk of meshing this thread with another one (as seems to be happening with all of em here lately) if Melo is close to LBJ and knew LBJ might lean toward leaving in the slightest, Melo could question LeBron's heart. He might not question LeBron about it but in his own mind think man my bud is that kind of guy?, I'm not I cannot be like that.....and possibly go his own way.

[FUDU]

Windhorst just re-tweeted

Cavs free agent center Zydrunas Ilgauskas tells Miami Herald he's "looking into option" of joining buddy LeBron in Miami, likeky at vet min.

Say it ain't so.

Look, I love Z but I hope this is true. At this point he'll hurt more than he helps.

Not sure if Z cares but if he follows through with this it significantly tarnishes his his legacy in Cleveland. I know some feel his number should be up in the rafters, if he joins LeBron Gilbert will never allow Z's jersey up there nor to be retired.

[peeker643]

I know some feel his number should be up in the rafters, if he joins LeBron Gilbert will never allow Z's jersey up there nor to be retired.

Meh...Gilbert has to be careful not to continue being viewed as the jilted wife. Z will be treated based on his body of work here. He's not wearing this and it'd be a good way for Gilbert to make sure he shows he's not completely scrambled eggs over it.

He needs to differentiate between how LBJ did him and the city versus guys making choices based on winning. He had no problem dealing Z away for help when he was looking to win back in February.

I wouldn't paint everything with a LBJ brush.

[FUDU]

I know some feel his number should be up in the rafters, if he joins LeBron Gilbert will never allow Z's jersey up there nor to be retired.

Meh...Gilbert has to be careful not to continue being viewed as the jilted wife. Z will be treated based on his body of work here. He's not wearing this and it'd be a good way for Gilbert to make sure he shows he's not completely scrambled eggs over it.

He needs to differentiate between how LBJ did him and the city versus guys making choices based on winning. He had no problem dealing Z away for help when he was looking to win back in February.

I wouldn't paint everything with a LBJ brush.

Good point about trading Z away and bringing him back. I'm assuming Gilbert is still a bit unstable about his team at the moment.

[Orenthal]

KD is a physical freak because he is 6'9" with a wingspan of 7'4". Combine that with his killer basketball skills and you have a nightmare. Guy took his lumps in the playoffs this year, didn't quit, and should come back next year to repeat as scoring champ.

He isn't buff, if that is the only thing that qualifies a physical freak.

[motherscratcher]

I know some feel his number should be up in the rafters, if he joins LeBron Gilbert will never allow Z's jersey up there nor to be retired.

Meh...Gilbert has to be careful not to continue being viewed as the jilted wife. Z will be treated based on his body of work here. He's not wearing this and it'd be a good way for Gilbert to make sure he shows he's not completely scrambled eggs over it.

He needs to differentiate between how LBJ did him and the city versus guys making choices based on winning. He had no problem dealing Z away for help when he was looking to win back in February.

I wouldn't paint everything with a LBJ brush.

This is a good point. Z trying to get a ring in what is probably the last year or 2 of his career is perfectly reasonable. If he goes to Miami I hope he doesn't get it, but that obviously has nothing to do with him.

In fact, I hope he does sign with Miami. I think it would be kind of nice to raise his jersey into the rafters next year when he would return. Right in front of Lebron. Lebron looking up knowing he will never be there.

It's unlikely he would even care, but it's possible he might have a twinge of regret about how this all went down and how great the fans here really are.

Meh, it's probably more me wishing insights and feelings onto LBJ that he's just incapable of.

[FUDU]

KD is a physical freak because he is 6'9" with a wingspan of 7'4". Combine that with his killer basketball skills and you have a nightmare. Guy took his lumps in the playoffs this year, didn't quit, and should come back next year to repeat as scoring champ.

He isn't buff, if that is the only thing that qualifies a physical freak.

In that regard yeah he is physically freaky, but he doesn't dominate games physically so to speak. He isn't hands down the fastest strongest and most punishing guy on the court, that's the vain I was going with. To his credit he doesn't have to be either though, he has a a bigger box of legit tools to use. I personally cannot see him as being the leagues best until James' starts to slow, unless of course King Fraud's even respectable level of shooting goes in the dumper.

League's purest and most polished soon, yeah sure.