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Looks like an S & T

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Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:34 pm

PDcavsinsider: #Cavs appear ready to move on. Sources say there's been progress made in a sign-and-trade with the Heat for LeBron. No deal yet
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:39 pm

PDcavsinsider: Raptors got two first rounders from Heat (one was their own pick back) for Bosh, have to assume the Cavs demanded more.

PDcavsinsider: May not seem like a savory deal to get James more money but Cavs are now in asset collection business. Like I said, moving on.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby SDM » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:41 pm

Delicious draft picks.

Miami seems confident that this project will work. Way to jeopardize your future.

Though I suppose they can easily get a few picks back if they ever trade one of them.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:46 pm

Great move, and maybe some proof Dan won't be too GD hard headed. Windy alluded earlier that any trade exception would be worthless to a Cavaliers team under the cap. Am I reading that right? We need to be under the cap, and take no players back to get the exception from a Miami team that also has to be under the cap. The draft pick does not affect that?

Miami's picks are going to suck, but any are better then none. Do you go over the cap on short term junk contracts just to get the exception and use it? <-Pushing harder for the Oldest Big 3!
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:48 pm

But I thought Bosh and LeBron were sacrificing so much to go to the Heat and win? Surely they don't need that 6th year if it costs the Heat all of their draft picks.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:48 pm

You can use the exemption the way Presti used it and pick off short term (read 1 or 2 year) bad contracts from teams that are over the luxury tax if it'll buy you a high draft pick.

Presti turned Rashard Lewis (through several trades) into like four first rounders w/ just the exemption.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:49 pm

And yeah, if Gilbert blows it up and does an S & T I'll back up a bit. At least until the next time something sets him off and he lights a fire.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby swerb » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:53 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And yeah, if Gilbert blows it up and does an S & T I'll back up a bit. At least until the next time something sets him off and he lights a fire.

A kinder, gentler EO. Next thing you know you'll be on the Sam Amico bandwagon. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:54 pm

Does really make it funny that all the bullshit these three dropped about sacrificing is just that. All are getting max years and probably max dollars.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:56 pm

...but all the mechinations that have to be in place for the exception to have value to the Cavaliers. I cannot remember which Windy tweet alluded to the exception, but the tone is that for some reason it would be useless to the Cavaliers all other things remaining constant...
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:58 pm

Orenthal wrote:...but all the mechinations that have to be in place for the exception to have value to the Cavaliers. I cannot remember which Windy tweet alluded to the exception, but the tone is that for some reason it would be useless to the Cavaliers all other things remaining constant...


Ah yeah, true. Presti used the exemption while over the cap (still had Wally, Ray, etc). We can eat a couple of 1 year bad contracts just w/ our cap space (which is what we should do come the dead-line assuming Gilbert doesn't blow it on Brad Miller.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:11 pm

Can someone do me a solid and explain what a trade exemption is like they are talking to a complete moron?
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:14 pm

No... :-)
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Cease » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:16 pm

Off topic: Don't turn on ESPN2 right now.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:16 pm

Trade exceptions can be used to make trades in which the salaries don't match closely enough. In the NBA, teams can only acquire players making up 125% of those they sent out.

Best NBA resource for this stuff: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:17 pm

Cease wrote:Off topic: Don't turn on ESPN2 right now.


I've been watching it. Posted a link in the Gilbert Letter thread. Needed something to make this real.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:20 pm

Thanks for the link aoxo.

You too e0y. Thanks for the help there.



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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:PDcavsinsider: #Cavs appear ready to move on. Sources say there's been progress made in a sign-and-trade with the Heat for LeBron. No deal yet


Hopefully there is some way that we've f'ed toronto and taken their pick that they owe the heat, because if they get the rumored 2 1sts in 2011 (theirs and Miami's), I'm not sure what we are going to get that is worthwhile.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Cease » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Cease wrote:Off topic: Don't turn on ESPN2 right now.


I've been watching it. Posted a link in the Gilbert Letter thread. Needed something to make this real.


I didn't watch the decision, can't watch this parade on ESPN2 right now, will have a hard time watching him play at all moving forward.

The issue has changed from being about him to about me and how I invested too much time and got hooked. I'm typical Cleveland fan somehow blaming himself before admitting he cares enough to blame someone else.

Back on Topic:
Glad to read that cooler heads may prevail and we'll attempt to get maximum value out of the asset.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:39 pm

@PDcavsinsider

#Cavs sign-and-trade deal with the Heat for #LeBron has not been finalized but will happen. Sources say Cavs will get 4 picks: 2 1st, 2 2nd
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:42 pm

Meh.

Should have been three firsts and if it's every other year starting in 2013, yeah, we got hosed.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby swerb » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:43 pm

CP wrote:@PDcavsinsider

#Cavs sign-and-trade deal with the Heat for #LeBron has not been finalized but will happen. Sources say Cavs will get 4 picks: 2 1st, 2 2nd

Wow
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:44 pm

Good to see him, Bosh and Wade sacrificed all of that money though.

Fucker said straight up onstage tonight that he chose the Heat to be a part of a family, because the org was a family and family is what he is all about.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Cease » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:45 pm

What does LeBron get out of this? I thought he was taking less than max.

The Heat, I assume, get a higher cap ceiling since they're taking on an existing contract?

Help me out.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:47 pm

6th year and higher % raises
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:47 pm

LeBron gets max years and very possibly max $$$, if not damned close to it. Same w/ Bosh.

The sacrifice was a lie.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:50 pm

@PDcavsinsider

Cavs also will receive a trade exception of up to $16 million. Appears they will not renounce FAs to get under cap and will take exception
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:51 pm

FYI not renouncing = great move IMO

Keep some ability to control where Shaq, Z go, perhaps keep Z out of Miami by working S&T for bigger salary to another team
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:52 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Good to see him, Bosh and Wade sacrificed all of that money though.

Fucker said straight up onstage tonight that he chose the Heat to be a part of a family, because the org was a family and family is what he is all about.


These guys knew full well what they were doing and that they had their teams over a barrel. So you can either take a symbolic stand and fly a finger or you can hold your nose and get what you can get.

You weren't a real big fan of the middle finger being raised while Gilbert also was shouting "Fuck You!!!" if I recall. ;-) ;) :wink:

Cyclical shit. One day you're raping and pillaging and the next day you're the front of the train. I guess we should feel lucky that we weren't in the front for about 7 years.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:53 pm

Never mind, now I see what they are doing. Going to use the exemption for max flexibility because we can stay over the cap. That's actually nifty, assuming we don't use it to trade for a fringe All-Star.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:56 pm

On Shaq, I was wondering if Hawks would prefer doing a S&T rather than using their MLE so they could preserve that asset. Even getting a 2nd there is a win.

Or they could do a double S&T and we could get Josh Childress since they don't seem like they're going to pay him anyway...
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby daddywags » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:56 pm

CP wrote:FYI not renouncing = great move IMO

Keep some ability to control where Shaq, Z go, perhaps keep Z out of Miami by working S&T for bigger salary to another team


I don't think we have any control over Z. His bird rights went to Washington in the trade and evaporated (I think) when he was bought out. He's as true a free agent as they come.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:58 pm

CP wrote:FYI not renouncing = great move IMO

Keep some ability to control where Shaq, Z go, perhaps keep Z out of Miami by working S&T for bigger salary to another team


Although you are a fool if you think we are going to play any role in where Z or Shaq go. They'll get there MLE-esque offers and be on there ways (or min when talking about Z).

And I hope Z ends up in Miami, one spot they'll suck at for sure.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:59 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I would encourage Z to go to Miami.


Z lives here and is quite aware of the animosity right now should he coattail LBJ again. He's also a little wary of LBJ himself despite getting a text about playing down there. He's come to see LBJ for exactly how LBJ is being portrayed now.

That said, Z and Gilbert don't have much of a relationship either. None of the players really did. Z was close with Gund and Gund was more of a fatherly type with the players while Gilbert is more corporate and HMFIC-ish.

It wouldn't shock me if he went but he and a few others are going to go where they believe they have the best chance to win. Hard to put Chicago ahead of Miami in that regard today but those are the two teams that he'll likely choose from. As I mentioned somewhere else, from a selfish standpoint I hope it's not down south. But if he goes there he goes there knowing exactly what he is and what kind of a snake he's dealing with.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:59 pm

CP wrote:On Shaq, I was wondering if Hawks would prefer doing a S&T rather than using their MLE so they could preserve that asset. Even getting a 2nd there is a win.

Or they could do a double S&T and we could get Josh Childress since they don't seem like they're going to pay him anyway...


You're getting near crack status. This move has nothing to do w/ Z and Shaq.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:00 pm

@daldridgetnt

Cavs just got in the Al Jefferson sweepstakes. RT @PDcavsinsider Cavs getting trade exception of up to $16M in s/t for LeBron, plus picks..
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:You're getting near crack status. This move has nothing to do w/ Z and Shaq.


Wasn't clear; wasn't trying to say the move was done with the purpose of directing where Shaq went. I just was pointing out that if I'm Atlanta and I'm willing to give Shaq $5.7 million, is the ability to use that money on yet another player worth a 2nd round draft pick? Might be...
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:06 pm

Atlanta is only going to add one more player, are done spending
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:10 pm

We can now officially blow Dallas out of water in Al Jefferson trade talks. Even if they give up Dampier, which they haven't wanted to do, the trade exception puts Cavs in drivers seat if they want him, no?
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:12 pm

Good to see Windy clear up his earlier tweet. I knew we were over the cap (only under once we renounce/or allow the signing of our players elsewhere), and thought I was missing something.

Shaq's 20 million hold over alone had us over. If we had renounced all guys and waived West we were only at 12 million in cap space. That West was waived to get to the 12 million figure is the only question of substance Grant answered in that presser.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:46 pm

At this point the money doesn't matter to him, one way or the other. He's filthy rich no matter what. Get what you can for the prick, and hope Stern absolutely molests the union in the CBA talks.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby scott » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:55 pm

CP wrote:On Shaq, I was wondering if Hawks would prefer doing a S&T rather than using their MLE so they could preserve that asset. Even getting a 2nd there is a win.

Or they could do a double S&T and we could get Josh Childress since they don't seem like they're going to pay him anyway...


If they are going to try to compete this should be move #1.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby scott » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:59 pm

CP wrote:@daldridgetnt

Cavs just got in the Al Jefferson sweepstakes. RT @PDcavsinsider Cavs getting trade exception of up to $16M in s/t for LeBron, plus picks..


He doesn't really fit this new notion of running Byron Scott is selling.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:05 pm

scott wrote:
CP wrote:@daldridgetnt

Cavs just got in the Al Jefferson sweepstakes. RT @PDcavsinsider Cavs getting trade exception of up to $16M in s/t for LeBron, plus picks..


He doesn't really fit this new notion of running Byron Scott is selling.


Poor ole Byron's probably gonna have to make a few adjustments to his plans.

Especially since we're in a personal race with Bron to win that title. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby fundamentals » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:10 pm

The Heat must think there are guys in the California penal league ready to go for them. Wonder who takes the bait and heads to South Beach to fill out that roster after "Miami Thrice" :pb:

I like what the Bulls have done with Boozer and Korver. And say what you want about Joakim Noah, his "Team Hollywood" comment was funny and can't wait for them to play.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Good to see him, Bosh and Wade sacrificed all of that money though.

Fucker said straight up onstage tonight that he chose the Heat to be a part of a family, because the org was a family and family is what he is all about.


sportsguy33 They should have had LeBron quit 2/3rds of the way through this Heat celebration - it could have been like the Boston series.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:33 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... e_emo.html

Though it is not finalized and might not be until next week, the Cavs are believed to have picked up two future first-round picks and two future second-round picks from the Heat in the swap.

The first-rounders likely will be in 2013 and 2015, with second-round picks in 2011 and 2012. The Cavs, it is believed, also will have the right to swap first-round picks with the Heat in 2012.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:35 pm

Per Windy
http://bit.ly/b7iWkz

Though it is not finalized and might not be until next week, the Cavs are believed to have picked up two future first-round picks and two future second-round picks from the Heat in the swap.

The first-rounders likely will be in 2013 and 2015, with second-round picks in 2011 and 2012. The Cavs, it is believed, also will have the right to swap first-round picks with the Heat in 2012. In a separate sign-and-trade Friday, the Heat sent two first-round picks to the Toronto Raptors for Chris Bosh.

In addition, the Cavs will pick up a trade exception that could be worth up to $16 million. The way the deal works, the Heat are basically trading their salary-cap space for James, and it creates that exception. The Cavs can use that asset in a trade within the next year.
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby waborat » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:54 pm

Total BS!!!

Send em Frank Jackson and we'll call it even
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Re: Looks like an S & T

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:25 am

All 3 Heat signees have opt outs after 2013-2014 season.
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