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The Rebuild

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The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Blow it up Gilbert. Don't even think about trying to win with this crew. You have no star.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:42 pm

+1.

Buy an NHL team while you're at it.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:45 pm

Unless Gilbert goes LeBron on us, he has stated many times on the record that he won't blow it up...
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Squints » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:47 pm

Too soon, gotta get the rage out first.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:49 pm

Need to just let go of it and move forward... not healthy. Honestly, I'm not as upset as I thought I'd be. More angered at Eric Wright calling out Cavs fans and reveling in their sadness.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby fairvis » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:06 pm

Triple-S wrote:+1.

Buy an NHL team while you're at it.



Hells yeah. Get the Coyotes to Cleveland, make 'em the Barons again. Keep Gretsky in the front office.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby waborat » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:08 pm

How much under the cap now?
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby metalhead9x9 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:09 pm

I think about the only thing worse than going 11-71 next season is playing well enough be an 8 seed and getting trampled again by this motherfucker.

Dynamite it.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:09 pm

$8-9 million I think w/o doing anything with Delonte and after renouncing Shaq/Z/Wally.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:11 pm

metalhead9x9 wrote:I think about the only thing worse than going 11-71 next season is playing well enough be an 8 seed and getting trampled again by this motherfucker.

Dynamite it.


God, you just made it worse.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:16 pm

As disappointed as I am, and as tempted as I am to just not watch nor care anymore, I am going to give Gilbert my support. He's been a great owner for the most part, doesn't embarrass the city and deserves to be treated better than LeBron supposedly treated him this week.

It might sound bitter to say there was some player collusion in this, but too bad, so now I'm pulling for an owner for a change.

I'm in Gilbert's camp and I hope he takes this personal and gets this town and himself a ring before LePunk gets one.

...and I'm gonna be that guy right now and say, LeBron isn't even that good.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby jack_tors » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:17 pm

FUDU wrote:As disappointed as I am, and as tempted as I am to just not watch nor care anymore, I am going to give Gilbert my support. He's been a great owner for the most part, doesn't embarrass the city and deserves to be treated better than LeBron supposedly treated him this week.

It might sound bitter to say there was some player collusion in this, but too bad, so now I'm pulling for an owner for a change.

I'm in Gilbert's camp and I hope he takes this personal and gets this town and himself a ring before LePunk gets one.

...and I'm gonna be that guy right now and say, LeBron isn't even that good.


+10.. awesome take FUDU. I plan on buying a partial ticket plan in 11-12 since most folks are locked in for 10-11.. Even 3-5 games (dont have a ton of scratch) but something to try to thank him for his support of the city.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:19 pm

I agree with FUDU. They do need to move Antawn this offseason if they can for an expiring, Mo too. Gibson if you can. Need to dump the vets for anything you can get.

I think you keep Varejao and Hickson and then try to develop guys with them.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:43 pm

I say you let the current group play out the season and get used to the new offense. Next year, you try to swap Antawn in the offseason as an expiring when he's worth something. You keep Mo and Telfair, since w/o Delonte you really need to find someone that can make something happen.

Still, too soon to really think about it.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:47 pm

The Rebuild is simple, get to the lottery, win it and get me Harrison Barnes.

Fuck the rest of the noise.

Gilbert wants to play plug and play for the next five years rolling w/ more good to fringe all-star vets he can blow me.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:48 pm

No need to start dealing guys just yet. Hang on to them and fleece some teams at the deadline.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:52 pm

I don't want 25-30 wins. I want a record for worst team ever and I want that #1 pick to build from. Fleece away, but make no mistake, this year is a failure if we aren't in a position to get Barnes and a legit max guy in the offseason (not saying he'll come).
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:02 pm

CP wrote:I don't want 25-30 wins. I want a record for worst team ever and I want that #1 pick to build from. Fleece away, but make no mistake, this year is a failure if we aren't in a position to get Barnes and a legit max guy in the offseason (not saying he'll come).


Because the best way to win a championship is to go tanking for other bozos with entitlement issues. ::doh::
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:03 pm

Well the main point is clearing up cap room and getting high draft picks.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:05 pm

Signing a max free agent would prevent getting several high draft picks, and he would be over the hill before the one high draft pick approaches his peak.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby plincoln » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:05 pm

metalhead9x9 wrote:I think about the only thing worse than going 11-71 next season is playing well enough be an 8 seed and getting trampled again by this motherfucker.

Dynamite it.


Gonna need a 5 seed to face him in round 1, I think....
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:05 pm

Sure, MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Wade, KG/Pierce, yeah.

You ignore getting a top flight superstar and keep on praying 2004 happens again, I'll go the proven route.

And by all accounts Barnes is more KD then Kobe or LBJ temperamentally.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:08 pm

Its stupid to even think about the complete tear down option, cause theres no chance it happens.

Gilbert has a lot of season tickets sold for next year ... but the following year he has none sold, and also has a casino coming.

He will aggressively make moves to keep this team competitive right now. Talking about shedding salary or a potential top 5 pick anytime soon is fantasy land.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:09 pm

Show me on the doll where the Lakers and Celtics tanked to get their sausages.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:10 pm

swerb wrote:Its stupid to even think about the complete tear down option, cause theres no chance it happens.

Gilbert has a lot of season tickets sold for next year ... but the following year he has none sold, and also has a casino coming.

He will aggressively make moves to keep this team competitive right now. Talking about shedding salary or a potential top 5 pick anytime soon is fantasy land.


+1 would concur again
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:10 pm

Then caring about the team is pointless, which is my point.

I don't want to watch a team that openly pushes itself to be a fringe playoff team and handicaps the roster to do so.

It's one thing to lock yourself up as the Bucks did this year and hope your huge young talents explode, it's another to do it when you have no young talent.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:11 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Then caring about the team is pointless, which is my point.

I don't want to watch a team that openly pushes itself to be a fringe playoff team and handicaps the roster to do so.

It's one thing to lock yourself up as the Bucks did this year and hope your huge young talents explode, it's another to do it when you have no young talent.

Then you should stop caring. Cause thats what they're gonna do.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:11 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Then caring about the team is pointless, which is my point.

I don't want to watch a team that openly pushes itself to be a fringe playoff team and handicaps the roster to do so.

It's one thing to lock yourself up as the Bucks did this year and hope your huge young talents explode, it's another to do it when you have no young talent.


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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:13 pm

Well, then Gilbert's got the long term acumen of TIMMAH.

In Cleveland of all places a barely average basketball team is going to sell approximately 5% more season tickets then a horrible one after this LBJ debacle.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:13 pm

swerb wrote:Its stupid to even think about the complete tear down option, cause theres no chance it happens.

Gilbert has a lot of season tickets sold for next year ... but the following year he has none sold, and also has a casino coming.

He will aggressively make moves to keep this team competitive right now. Talking about shedding salary or a potential top 5 pick anytime soon is fantasy land.


If done right, he could go into next year with 45 million in cap room and a top 5 pick. This isn't the Knicks where you trade years of draft picks to gut your roster... I'm talking about not adding anything major long-term and dumping Mo, Jamison and Boobie.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:17 pm

War getting the #5 pick in the draft and overpaying for Larry Hughes Mk II again.

Again, show me where a 'Blow It All Up' strategy worked for any championship team in the past four years.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Well, then Gilbert's got the long term acumen of TIMMAH.

In Cleveland of all places a barely average basketball team is going to sell approximately 5% more season tickets then a horrible one after this LBJ debacle.

When you are cross selling mortgages, a minor league hockey team, Fatheads, and a casino ... there is a massive difference between have 10,000 people in the building 50 times a year as opposed to 21,000. That's not even getting into the impact of being able to put those products in front of people on TV, and all the other stuff you sell that goes along with people following and going downtown to watch the team.

Not just a basketball team to Gilbert. Its a basketball team that is at the center of a network of businesses. You go downtown to see the games, those businesses are marketed everywhere. And the direct relationship between the # of people that give a shit about the team and the profitability of the casino will be very significant.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:21 pm

Fuck all you stupid mother fuckers.

Metabolism with no heart beating having been ripped out.

This is my last post here.

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:24 pm

jb wrote:This is my last post here.


I'm tempted to add this to my classic CDT signature.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:24 pm

Holy shit. Read the letter.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm

LOL ... I think this officially kills any thoughts of a tear down and rebuild

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbe ... 00708.html
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:27 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:War getting the #5 pick in the draft and overpaying for Larry Hughes Mk II again.

Again, show me where a 'Blow It All Up' strategy worked for any championship team in the past four years.


Well, for the teams in the last 4 years the strategy was 'have the GM of a crappy team with old ties to the organization trade us the missing piece for pennies on the dollar.' I'm not sure that's a better strategy than 'blow it all up'.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Celtic and Heat were built by tearing it down, Duncan was snagged by a top pick, etc.. list goes on. And if you think people are going to watch or care about a maybe 30 win team you are on crack, the ticket sale difference is going to be tiny either way. Worst thing. a team can do in the league is shooting for 25 to 35 wins a year, period.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:49 pm

People need to stop pretending the Celtics weren't built with draft picks.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:55 pm

aoxo1 wrote:People need to stop pretending the Celtics weren't built with draft picks.


The only top 5 I remember now was Jeff Green who wound up part of the Shuttlesworth deal, so they kind of were. They just hit well-enough on the draft no matter where they picked, and used those assets to build the team.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby JJN » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:56 pm

You can add recently successful teams that are still growing that have been built through the draft with good vets being plugged in. Blazers, Thunder, Bulls. Throw Hickson and the Congolese Beansprout out there and let's loose us some games.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:21 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:People need to stop pretending the Celtics weren't built with draft picks.


The only top 5 I remember now was Jeff Green who wound up part of the Shuttlesworth deal, so they kind of were. They just hit well-enough on the draft no matter where they picked, and used those assets to build the team.


1 top five and tanking to let all of the kids grow. Kids grew while tanking and became assets and they collected a ton of cap friendly contracts to move.

The blew it all up, hard and reaped the benefits.

If Gilbert let's stubborness turn this team into a 30 win version of the Jamison All-Stars he's a bigger idiot then anyone ever imagined.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:08 am

CP wrote:I agree with FUDU. They do need to move Antawn this offseason if they can for an expiring, Mo too. Gibson if you can. Need to dump the vets for anything you can get.

I think you keep Varejao and Hickson and then try to develop guys with them.

Why dump Mo?

He's only 27 and a nifty player to have. Without having to defer to Bron all the time he can be like he was in Milwaukee. 18 points and 7 assists a game.

Yeah trade AJ but I'd like to keep a player and MAN like Maurice
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby furls » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:26 am

Well, if there is one silver lining in all of this at least we won't have to watch "LeIso" anymore. I am not sure that it was in Byron Scott's offensive plan anyways, but I was never a fan of watch a guy dribble the shot clock down to 3 seconds and then chuck a 20 footer or run to the rim and pray.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:32 pm

BTW: Windhorst says I'm right (as is Rich):

PDcavsinsider: I'll tell you this, basketball people know the correct answer is to take a step back to get better later. Not sure owner will be on board.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:45 pm

Of course we need to burn it down and rebuild from scratch. I'm sure even Gilbert knows that. The problem is is that that work for Cleveland. Ever. The Indians have proven it can't really be done, and the NBA championships only come to LA or Miami or Boston.

Otherwise, you need to luck out once every thirty years, get a once a generation draft pick and build around him. That plan works once every thirty years. Miss that window, and your done. Well, we missed that window. If sitting back and praying to get another LBJ who will just fuck us again is the best we can do, I got no interest in that. I'll still follow the Cavs cause I'm compulsive that way, but damn, that window's closed, and nothing but time and luck can open it. Not fun for anyone.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:30 pm

Per Windy, Heat are trying to get Cavs to do a S&T for James. I probably take the draft picks and $15 million trade exception along with one of their unsigned drafted players to whom they hold the rights. You can't have enough Sasha Kauns.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:34 pm

@PDcavsinsider FYI, a trade exception #Cavs would potentially get in a sign-and-trade is basically worthless because they are under the salary cap.
I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby ajunior148 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:38 pm

aoxo1 wrote:@PDcavsinsider FYI, a trade exception #Cavs would potentially get in a sign-and-trade is basically worthless because they are under the salary cap.


If that is true then there is no way I help LBJ get another year on his contract, or let Miami have the rights to him for another season.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:54 pm

You can hold it for a year, no? Not disputing Windy but if you use up the cap space on FAs and make a trade or two, you can easily find yourself back over the cap (though I'd still prefer to blow it all up).
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