Cavs talking with Phoenix about Amare?

[papacass]

Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

[RickNashEquilibrium]

I truly hope that the next CBA gets us closer to having trades that are done purely for basketball reasons, rather than clearing cap room or getting under whatever financial ceiling. As a Cavs fan, I love that they have an owner who is willing to spend, and who is willing to bend teams over backwards to get Mo/Shaq/possibly Amare or Antawn. As a basketball fan, those deals kind of suck. Making trades for financial reasons is not a new phenomenon in sports -- if it were, then Babe Ruth would have played his career in Boston -- but it seems more overt now than ever.

Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Surely you're not implying Antoine Walker, Raef LaFrentz, Theo Ratliff, Keith Van Horn, and Kwame Brown aren't the quintessential building blocks of an NBA franchise?

[aoxo1]

Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

The team still has to pay the entirety of the contract, even if the player signs with another team (so the player gets paid the entirety of two contracts), and the contract still counts for purposes of determining cap standing (so you can't get under the cap by using this one time exemption). They just don't have to pay the luxury tax on that player's contract. So it doesn't free up any cap money, and they only save the money they are paying in tax on the contract.

[diminishingskills]

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

That's because the amnesty had to be exercised that season, IIRC. Either you had a contract you wanted to get rid of or you didn't. It wasn't something that a team could pocket and then use a year or two down the line.

ETA: What aoxo said too.

BTW, a piece of trivia I've always liked: the Knicks did not use the Allan Houston rule on Allan Houston.

[jb]

Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

I tend to agree wth any post that can pply the word "kabillion" to logic.

The cap has many exceptions, perhaps it ought to be more forgiving of injuries for a designated player. Would have helped us when America's favorite NASCAR announcer was snake bit.

[aoxo1]

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

That's because the amnesty had to be exercised that season, IIRC. Either you had a contract you wanted to get rid of or you didn't. It wasn't something that a team could pocket and then use a year or two down the line.

ETA: What aoxo said too.

BTW, a piece of trivia I've always liked: the Knicks did not use the Allan Houston rule on Allan Houston.

I actually thought that too, but from what I saw in my quick search there was nothing about it. The closest was something that said "by October 1" but didn't have a year.

[Cleveland Transplant]

Per Twitter

sportsguy33

That's horrible. Ernie Grunfeld needs to be stopped. RT @chadfordinsider: Most likely Cavs-Wiz deal (Z, Moon, No. 1) for (Jamison, James)

[Gradysmanldy]

Ugh, Simmons should be better than to re-tweet from Ford. He could have gotten that word from a half dozen other spots by now.

[e0y2e3]

Simmons and Ford are tight, there is where he gets 90% of his insane trade ideas.

[Gradysmanldy]

Makes a painful dichotomy....I really enjoy reading Simmons pieces, very likable writing style....but some of the ideas he concocts make my teeth hurt.

[noles1]

Well he is not necessarily wrong but it is just that we are reaping the benefits.

This is what would have happened with the Gasol situation had it played out, only there would have been better offers publicly. Funny how this is playing out yet basically there are no viable alternatives out there. That Miami deal is a pile of crap and they are using 4 guys to try and make it work.

I'm not sure what to make of this or who we end up with. I was leaning toward Jamo as of yesterday but after last night and the Amare comments and word out there now, I am inclined to think it is Amare.

[pup]

How do we know Phoenix is the one leaking anything?

Maybe it is Danny?

[diminishingskills]

How do we know Phoenix is the one leaking anything?

Maybe it is Danny?

Latest rumor has PHX sending Amare to the Cavs for Anderson Varejao. And then the Cavs will turn around and trade for Antawn Jamison, also for Anderson Varejao, just to make sure he gets the hell out of town.

Now if we saw THAT rumor, we'd know the source for sure.

[jb]

How do we know Phoenix is the one leaking anything?

Maybe it is Danny?

Latest rumor has PHX sending Amare to the Cavs for Anderson Varejao. And then the Cavs will turn around and trade for Antawn Jamison, also for Anderson Varejao, just to make sure he gets the hell out of town.

Now if we saw THAT rumor, we'd know the source for sure.

I read the first sentance and took it seriously.

I hnate you Hnat.

Not today broham. Not today.

Too antsy.

[papacass]

How do we know Phoenix is the one leaking anything?

Maybe it is Danny?

Media types are sniffing around both sides, and Woj apparently has some in-the-know sources with the league office, but given that there is a ton of information swirling about both the Cavs and the Heat chasing Amare, you'd have to think that most of the scuttlebutt is coming from the hierarchy of the Suns.

[scott]

Sounds like nothing happens until tomorrow. PDX giving Miami some time to try to sweeten a deal, and Amar'e to Cleve holding up the house of cards until that is settled.

[jb]

Sounds like nothing happens until tomorrow. PDX giving Miami some time to try to sweeten a deal, and Amar'e to Cleve holding up the house of cards until that is settled.

I don't blame PHX at all. This is exactly what they should do. Hold out for the best deal. bedtime prayers include one that ehrone hates Mihammi.

More adrenaline tomorrow.

[diminishingskills]

I read the first sentance and took it seriously.

I hnate you Hnat.

Not today broham. Not today.

Too antsy.

Yup, that's a personal foul today. Remind me at the next draft party/ballgame/whateva, and I'll get you the first round of adult beverages. (As long as it's cheap domestic swill, as I have a Dolanesque tolerance for spending. )

[Cease]

Too antsy.

This is such an insane week to be a Cavs fan, I can't help but be antsy. I'm just hoping Danny makes the right move and has an incredibly keen sense for total player value. Each scenario is a big house of cards, negotiated at length, with a huge MAYBE attached. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the Cavs offices on days like this. What a beautiful buzz.

The State of the TCF is strong. Great thread (& along with the other trade thread). This is the only spot on the web I even care to check for updates. The good turns in the road end up here anyway, usually within 10 minutes.

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo, but feel that Kerr is helping Danny lay bait to bring down the price for Jamo. If the Wiz call our bluff, Kerr might jump in and deal anyway- depending on what else he sees but is likely to stand pat if we get Jamo.

So many ways this could go, might be getting to be time to sit stop guessing, just to sit back and watch.

[scott]

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

[jb]

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

[e0y2e3]

I may be through w/ you for good Hnat. Your buying JB a beer for that? After you tried to bait me into the full out LBJ debate earlier and only offered me more insults for declining hijacking the Amare trade thread?

I'm very close to filing for divorce.

Geezes, did someone steal your favorite rocker or something? Old man bitter, that's what I think.

[Hi Oktane]

Too antsy.

This is such an insane week to be a Cavs fan, I can't help but be antsy. I'm just hoping Danny makes the right move and has an incredibly keen sense for total player value. Each scenario is a big house of cards, negotiated at length, with a huge MAYBE attached. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the Cavs offices on days like this. What a beautiful buzz.

The State of the TCF is strong. Great thread (& along with the other trade thread). This is the only spot on the web I even care to check for updates. The good turns in the road end up here anyway, usually within 10 minutes.

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo, but feel that Kerr is helping Danny lay bait to bring down the price for Jamo. If the Wiz call our bluff, Kerr might jump in and deal anyway- depending on what else he sees but is likely to stand pat if we get Jamo.

So many ways this could go, might be getting to be time to sit stop guessing, just to sit back and watch.

Insane is right. JB spelled "antsy" correctly! Must be the stress.

[papacass]

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

[dmiles]

I have failed in my attempt to get off of Monster/Rock-Star and failed in my attempt to avoid RCF. I held out until the last 10 minutes.

W&G is teasing again with "Gilbert personally involved", "Phoenix deal looking like it will get done" type stuff. Still nothing new to see. Here was the 1:33 PST, post (about 7 min. ago)

I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

Something positive may be happening in regards to the Amare trade and him coming to Cleveland.. We're getting some very positive indications is what I was just told ... so hold tight.

Don't have a timeline or what the specifics might be at all. Just a phone call from the same guy I talked to about ten minutes ago and he said that we got some very strong indications that Phoenix is leaning with us.

[aoxo1]

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

This is what makes something like the following so, so sweet.

That's horrible. Ernie Grunfeld needs to be stopped. RT @chadfordinsider: Most likely Cavs-Wiz deal (Z, Moon, No. 1) for (Jamison, James)
http://twitter.com/sportsguy33/status/9244079079

Yeah, Bill is pretending to care about the fans of the teams dumping salary. But those fans are better off in the long term. He is really just pissed because it hurts Beantown.

Someone ought to let him know that he doesn't know what it's really like to compete against teams that do this until Boston loses a guy like V-mart, CC, or Lee in a salary dump.

[JCoz]

[quote="dmiles"]I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

[quote]

I wonder what that would mean exactly, if true.

[jb]

I have failed in my attempt to get off of Monster/Rock-Star and failed in my attempt to avoid RCF. I held out until the last 10 minutes.

W&G is teasing again with "Gilbert personally involved", "Phoenix deal looking like it will get done" type stuff. Still nothing new to see. Here was the 1:33 PST, post (about 7 min. ago)

I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

Something positive may be happening in regards to the Amare trade and him coming to Cleveland.. We're getting some very positive indications is what I was just told ... so hold tight.

Don't have a timeline or what the specifics might be at all. Just a phone call from the same guy I talked to about ten minutes ago and he said that we got some very strong indications that Phoenix is leaning with us.

That Meddling Little Prick! Who does he think he is, getting personally involved. :-)


[youtube]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8925610190810632151#[/youtube]

[diminishingskills]

I may be through w/ you for good Hnat. Your buying JB a beer for that? After you tried to bait me into the full out LBJ debate earlier and only offered me more insults for declining hijacking the Amare trade thread? I'm very close to filing for divorce.

Geezes, did someone steal your favorite rocker or something? Old man bitter, that's what I think.

FFS, did your Playstation freeze just as your Bron/Wade/Sasha Vujacic/Chris Quinn/Adonal Foyle team was about to hoist the trophy? You're even more pissed off than usual today, and you usually wake up more pissed off than Simon Cowell in a room full of old dudes singing "pants on the ground".

But we can't get divorced, because we're obviously not married. If we were, we'd be fighting much more often.

[e0y2e3]

FTR: there is nothing homerish about enjoying this Cass.

And Hnat, where is my damned GBS?

[Gradysmanldy]

PDcavsinsider

There are some indications out there that the Suns are getting close to giving Cavs an answer on Amar'e. As in very soon.

OH MY ACHING BLUE BALLS

[Gradysmanldy]

Btw, Ey, That was a metaphor. My balls aren't really blue, it's just that the trade talks are like dry humping.

[StewieG]

I'm thinking Amare's gonna be a Cavalier very, very soon. Gut feeling.

[diminishingskills]

Windy says we're at shit-or-get-off-the-pot time re: Amare.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... d_cav.html

My favorite part of the article? Amare's agent is named "Happy".

[Triple-S]

Windy says we're at shit-or-get-off-the-pot time re: Amare.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... d_cav.html

My favorite part of the article? Amare's agent is named "Happy".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0vA3Fgbl6c

I see the booster from Blue Chips finally got a new job.

"There goes Happy heading for the cash machine, gonna buy himself a Middle-Linebacker, that guy got the best player money can buy!"

[Ziner]

Simmons whining again

These dump trades = exactly why the NBA is going under. Any tanking team should discount last 2 mths of season tix by half.

HAHA Strange, didnt see a similar worry when the BoSox's got Victor in a salary dump.

[e0y2e3]

Simmons whining again

These dump trades = exactly why the NBA is going under. Any tanking team should discount last 2 mths of season tix by half.

HAHA Strange, didnt see a similar worry when the BoSox's got Victor in a salary dump.

Weren't the Indians giving tickets away at the end of th eyear?

[e0y2e3]

Feh.

WojYahooNBA: The Suns have told Amar'e Stoudemire that he is playing tonight against the Dallas Mavericks, suggesting no imminent trade, sources tell Y!

[Ziner]

Simmons whining again

These dump trades = exactly why the NBA is going under. Any tanking team should discount last 2 mths of season tix by half.

HAHA Strange, didnt see a similar worry when the BoSox's got Victor in a salary dump.

Weren't the Indians giving tickets away at the end of th eyear?

Dunno, but he didnt seem to care about the MLB when it went down.

[aoxo1]

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

This is what makes something like the following so, so sweet.

That's horrible. Ernie Grunfeld needs to be stopped. RT @chadfordinsider: Most likely Cavs-Wiz deal (Z, Moon, No. 1) for (Jamison, James)
http://twitter.com/sportsguy33/status/9244079079

Yeah, Bill is pretending to care about the fans of the teams dumping salary. But those fans are better off in the long term. He is really just pissed because it hurts Beantown.

Someone ought to let him know that he doesn't know what it's really like to compete against teams that do this until Boston loses a guy like V-mart, CC, or Lee in a salary dump.

Simmons whining again

These dump trades = exactly why the NBA is going under. Any tanking team should discount last 2 mths of season tix by half.

HAHA Strange, didnt see a similar worry when the BoSox's got Victor in a salary dump.

Weren't the Indians giving tickets away at the end of th eyear?

Dunno, but he didnt seem to care about the MLB when it went down.

Have you ever had an original thought?

[Ziner]

Have you ever had an original thought?

Forgive me, had a dentist appt wasn't following for a while.

I almost quoted the whole thing just to ruin e0y's day

[e0y2e3]

If old man Hnat cannot keep me down you don't have a prayer Ziner.

Although thanks to this damned board and trade rumors it will be damn interesting to see when I leave the office. Stupid work.

[Doc]

The more I thought about it today, the more JJ to PHX made sense. If you bring in Jamo and relegate JJ to the bench, I think that's the worst case scenario. I don't think JJ develops as well not being on the first team with LeBron, and I think that ruins his trade value as well.

I like JJ, but I don't see him getting better on the 2nd team. The reason he's starting is to be out there with the guys who take all the pressure off of him. He's a guy I think they almost need to move now. I think I prefer Jamo's "fit" here better than Amar'e, but I think you have to make Kerr make that deal. STAT is the best use of our resources.

[noles1]

Windy's latest twitter...

Washington Post reports the Cavs have traded for Antawn Jamison
6 minutes ago from web

http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

[Doc]

Windy's latest twitter...

Washington Post reports the Cavs have traded for Antawn Jamison
6 minutes ago from web

http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

Wait, what? Initially, I'm not sure how to react. Waiting for more sources, I guess. My night's f'ed. I'll be seeing more of you tonight, TCF basketball forum...

[ajunior148]

WojYahooNBA:

Miami planning to meet with Amar'e Stoudemire after midnight EST in L.A., sources say. Houston and Cleveland expected to reach out soon too. 1 minute ago via web

[e0y2e3]

Yeah, someone should start a rumors thread and then split out when rumors become actual actions.

[ajunior148]

Agreed. This will get crazy.

[Loo]

Just like the Shaq trade last year, this deal won't get done because of our reluctance to trade Hickson.

Now that LeBron and his value to the franchise (in the books, not on the court) is at stake, Hickson is gone if the deal is possible.

[British_Pharaoh]

Amar'e stays in Phoenix he's just checking what's out there before making it official