Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, papacass
by pup » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:05 am
by rigs » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:16 am
by FUDU » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:31 am
pup wrote:Because I sure as hell cannot.Our biggest hope is he is scared of a ghost.Kudos to one Daniel Ferry. Screwed us again.
by scott » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:13 am
pup wrote:Our biggest hope is he is scared of a ghost.
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:50 am
by pup » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:16 pm
by CP » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:34 pm
by aoxo1 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:37 pm
by FUDU » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:38 pm
by CP » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:40 pm
FUDU wrote:I know one thing Miami is fucked if the gamble doesn't work.
by pup » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:48 pm
CP wrote:I still think it's Chicago or Cleveland. I am not sure LeBron has much interest in the Knicks (LeBron/Bosh + no-names and a coach who hates defense) or the Heat (Wade/LeBron/Joe Johnson/no-names).So it's Chicago's issues vs. Cleveland's issues. Ours are under a microscope right now but they have their own too:1) Jordan's legacy2) The way ownership/front office broke up the Jordan dynasty. Wade has already spoken out against Chicago for this reason.3) Argument that Thibadeau is Mike Brown Part Deux (respected defensive asst with no real playing experience, no head coaching experience, etc)4) No legit big man. Bosh has been abused by physical centers his entire career when he's gotten matched up with them and you could argue that the Bulls are no closer to matching up with Boston and Orlando than Cleveland is, and LBJ has a built-in excuse for failure if he stays.5) Loyalty to Cleveland gets him a pass and allows him to sign another 3 yr deal and maintain this circus for the foreseeable future without the expectations that he starts on two threepeats.Seems like legit rationale against Chicago to me.
by FUDU » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:58 pm
5. You don't think the expectations in Cleveland are part of the problem? That is, expecting him to win those titles without the level of help that he will get just about anywhere else he signs?
by smalls1129 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:14 pm
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:15 pm
papacass wrote:What you see is the result of what has played out over the past two years. The Cavs burned any shot at cap flexibility this summer because they thought they'd have hoisted a trophy by now. A championship was going to be their selling point to LBJ, hence the "all-in" philosophy of spending to win now.
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:20 pm
pup wrote:Speaking only for myself, I am amazed at how this has how played out in my own head.As short as probably a couple of months ago, I made LBJ the biggest villain ever should he turn his back on Cleveland and take less money to go somewhere else. Today? No freakin way. This is totally on the Cleveland Cavaliers for putting this organization in a place that makes it just about impossible for him to stay.Terrible execution of whatever plan they thought they had. The inability to do the right thing, in the name of going "all-in". That turned into an excuse to make whatever move they possibly could, with absolutely no thought about the end result. Every time we made a move, it backfired. Every time we did not make a move, it backfired. And it backfired because they were always the wrong move at the wrong time. Some of which most people, including myself, agreed with at the time. Unfortunately, the guy who gets paid to be right wasn't. At just about any time in 5 years.
by tired » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:32 pm
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:33 pm
FUDU wrote: All the on the court doubts and criticisms of our roster have a big ? attached, the ? being what exactly happened to LeBron and is it a blip on the radar screen or more of a real glimpse of what LeBron really is?
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:37 pm
tired wrote:Bruce Drenon last night said he had 2 sources saying Chicago will sign Bosch making it a no-brainer for LeBron to go there. FWIW
by FUDU » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:48 pm
papacass wrote:tired wrote:Bruce Drenon last night said he had 2 sources saying Chicago will sign Bosch making it a no-brainer for LeBron to go there. FWIWWhich would fly directly in the face of Bosh's comment from yesterday that he'll wait to see where LeBron goes.Bruce Drennan is fine for loud commentary and idiot callers, but he's not a news source, even secondhand.
by Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:57 pm
by Ziner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:06 pm
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:No I can't make a case. And I don't care anymore. I've prepared myself for the worst. So why even give a shit about it?Fuck it.
by tired » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:11 pm
by diminishingskills » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:12 pm
by Kingpin74 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:48 pm
by Triple-S » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:03 pm
DiminishingSkills wrote:You can't have it both ways. In the NBA, you are not going to win a title unless you are over the salary cap, thanks to Bird exceptions, mid-level players, etc. Teams who are under the cap are teams who are hoping for ping-pong balls.That said, would you have preferred that the Cavs spent the last three years clearing cap room, in hopes of retaining LBJ and enticing another top FA or two to come here? Would you honestly have not said "what the hell are they doing, wasting three of LeBron's best years in hopes of landing another superstar to pair with him?" They did what contending teams do: made moves that hurt their longer term flexibility in order to win now. They ended up with two great regular seasons and two playoff collapses. Not the result any of us wanted, but it's hard to fault the strategy. If we could turn the clock back two years, every one of us would have followed the same strategy again. Every. One.Those who blame Ferry for not acquiring a superstar to pair with LeBron, welcome to the real world. Superstars are rarely traded. If you want to blame Ferry for not Jedi mind-tricking a fellow GM into, say, the Pau Gasol ass-raping, fine ... but that's like blaming him for having snow in Cleveland in February. It's not a standard that any reasonable analyst would hold him to.How do you get stars? You draft them. And the only halfway worthwhile pick the Cavs have had since drafting LeBron was the #10 overall pick in 2004. That's the one the Cavs pissed away on LuJack, while Al Jefferson and Josh Smith were still (figuratively at least) sitting in the green room.The one other young star-level player on this team during the LeBron Years was Carlos Boozer, and ... well, we all know what happened there. I won't discuss it further, except to say that the fiasco happened a year before Ferry came to Cleveland. Kind of hard to pin that one on His Baldedness.Should the Cavs have spent all that free agent money in 2005 (on IHS, Yell, and Amon)? In retrospect, maybe not. Also in retrospect, if they don't do that, then Bron leaves after his rookie deal. Simple as that. He would have seen a team with glaring holes that wasn't doing anything to fix them, and he would have been gone.Aside from that, I'm not seeing where Ferry gets the blame. He had no draft picks in 2005 and 2007. He had low picks otherwise (and got decent value for where he picked; Daniel Gibson in the second round, J.J. Hickson at #19 overall). He took advantage of other teams' willingness to dump salaries (and TMLP's blessing of taking those salaries on) to bring in Mo Williams, Shaq, and Tawn -- all moves that are varying degrees of unpopular now, but all moves that were wildly supported at the time -- not to mention all moves that cost the team zero in outgoing talent. The Cavs took their shots. They were good shots. They missed. And now it may be years before they get the chance again. That's the game.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
by daddywags » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:09 pm
by Lubber » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:23 pm
Triple-S wrote:we're left watching another great athlete in this city leave again, while we were promised something different.
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:26 pm
FUDU wrote:I'm not saying this just b/c I'm a bit of a Drennan fan, but the game of sources is in fact a game. IOW: you'd be surprised at just how many people you walk next to everyday that actually might be or have a source close to the action. Somebody has to be the neighbor, doctor, friend, brother in law, accountant of a Gilbert. For instance unbeknown to me until this past month I know two people extremely close to the Gilbert family. Have heard some things that have happened and happened exactly when they were planned and predicted to. So just sayin for just sayin sake. You never know just who knows what or who knows who.
by Triple-S » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:30 pm
Lubber wrote:Triple-S wrote:we're left watching another great athlete in this city leave again, while we were promised something different.When did LeBron ever promise he was staying here?
by motherscratcher » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:30 pm
by Lubber » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:18 pm
Triple-S wrote:Lubber wrote:Triple-S wrote:we're left watching another great athlete in this city leave again, while we were promised something different.When did LeBron ever promise he was staying here?he promised to light up the city like vegas, and get us a title.obviously that never happened, and thus what I was referring to.
by Cease » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:25 pm
by scott » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:02 pm
by peeker643 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:10 pm
by daddywags » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:29 pm
peeker643 wrote:It ain't gonna be the biggest factor but it will be one of them: dude is comfortable where he is. Comfortable with his home and family there, comfortable that the media here is toothless and lazy and leaves him a lone.End of day, I think you'll see if he prefers being amazing over winning. If he stays here when he has a better opportunity to go elsewhere and win then he's said a mouthful. And though he'll be here it ain't exactly reassuring as to why.And btw, I don't think he does anything w/o Bosh if he goes this 'Two Max' (or more) route. Bosh is as quiet as he is effective. LBJ won't be upstaged as Bosh is a bass player and not the front man. I don't think LBJ and Wade will blend too well. Same with LBJ and Amare. He'll go to CHI where he's the alpha celeb/star and a guy like Bosh/Boozer go in support. Or he'll stay here.
by smalls1129 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:56 pm
by OldDawg » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:18 pm
by papacass » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:35 pm
by tired » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:57 pm
by Spin » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:33 am
by Orenthal » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:14 pm
by OldDawg » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:00 pm
Spin wrote:but what really beat us last year? And every other GD year since Mark Price? (and I don't think HE could defend the PG's in the NBA today). Same shit different PG. Or attempted converted PG.
by Spin » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:03 pm
by CP » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:07 pm
by CP » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:35 pm
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:34 pm
by tired » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:56 pm
by Spin » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:33 pm
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:20 pm
by FUDU » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:05 pm
Spin wrote:I hear a LOT of talk about a sign-and-trade with Toronto for Chris Bosh, and that might sound good, but what really beat us last year? And every other GD year since Mark Price? (and I don't think HE could defend the PG's in the NBA today). Same shit different PG. Or attempted converted PG. Everyone saw it, talked about it, Paxson and Ferry did nothing to improve it. And last I checked, Bosh is not a PG.
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