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Conference Expansion/Reshaping

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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:51 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ahahahahaahha.... This is so fucking funny. What a waste of time.

Let Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and get some of that new TV money.



Why would Nebraska want to go back? So they can do this whole thing over 5 years from now?


To get those greenbacks, son!
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:31 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ahahahahaahha.... This is so fucking funny. What a waste of time.

Let Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and get some of that new TV money.



Why would Nebraska want to go back? So they can do this whole thing over 5 years from now?


To get those greenbacks, son!


Yeah, run on back to get 8-10 million less a year. That would be a great call.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:44 am

mattvan1 wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:How much does the supposedly crappy tv deal and the unequal revenue distribution have to do with the extended fall (until last year) of Nebraska and Colorado's complete ineptitude?

If those are problems, and Texas is going to make things worse by creating their own TV network, the Big 12 will just continue to get worse outside of Austin and maybe Norman.


Agreed. It simply delays the inevitable. No way B12 goes without a conference championship game for long - they will need to add teams and re-form or split up sometime down the road



Just need to back up the Red River Shootout to the last game ala old UM / tOSU
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:56 am

Looks like 9 of the 10 teams have agreed in principle to the television deal, Texas Tech is holding off for now.

This whole thing is hilarious. Rough week or so in the Beebe house.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:07 pm

JCoz wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ahahahahaahha.... This is so fucking funny. What a waste of time.

Let Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and get some of that new TV money.



Why would Nebraska want to go back? So they can do this whole thing over 5 years from now?


To get those greenbacks, son!


Yeah, run on back to get 8-10 million less a year. That would be a great call.


lol.

You obviously have no idea when someone is fucking around.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:19 pm

Scuse me if this is now lost up there, but will the Big 10 now be the Big 12 and the Big 12 the Big 10? And how ironic each others' is now trademarked?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:32 pm

jb wrote:Scuse me if this is now lost up there, but will the Big 10 now be the Big 12 and the Big 12 the Big 10? And how ironic each others' is now trademarked?


No.

They'll keep it the same. Trademarks and all....

If all the expansion had went down like some had predicted, why not just call the 4 super confrences the North, South, East, and West? The rest were simply the "Others".
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:35 pm

This parody Big 12 Meetings transcript on Hornfans is hysterical. Well worth a read.

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthrea ... &o=0&fpart
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:36 pm

I still like "The Conference"
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:12 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ahahahahaahha.... This is so fucking funny. What a waste of time.

Let Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and get some of that new TV money.



Why would Nebraska want to go back? So they can do this whole thing over 5 years from now?


To get those greenbacks, son!


Yeah, run on back to get 8-10 million less a year. That would be a great call.


lol.

You obviously have no idea when someone is fucking around.


CDT, with you, I never know. You've got your own agenda.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:36 pm

JCoz wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ahahahahaahha.... This is so fucking funny. What a waste of time.

Let Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and get some of that new TV money.



Why would Nebraska want to go back? So they can do this whole thing over 5 years from now?


To get those greenbacks, son!


Yeah, run on back to get 8-10 million less a year. That would be a great call.


lol.

You obviously have no idea when someone is fucking around.


CDT, with you, I never know. You've got your own agenda.


As do you.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:18 pm

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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:25 pm



lol. He cracks me up.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby gnati » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:03 pm

I probably missed this, but...

What exactly happens to all of this if Jim Delaney rings up Columbia, Missouri tomorrow with an offer?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:10 pm

Is it too soon to call the French XII the Terry Schiavo Conference?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:11 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Is it too soon to call the French XII the Terry Schiavo Conference?


Too soon, brah, too soon.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:26 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Is it too soon to call the French XII the Terry Schiavo Conference?


Too soon, brah, too soon.



For the Big 12 conference?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby fairvis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:04 pm

Utah now officially invited to Pac-10 (12?), has presser scheduled for tomorrow at 1 PM MDT...

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_15310140

Rumor has it that the Pac-12 will be split into North and South divisions, with Colorado getting in with the big boys and being in the South with UCLA, USC, Arizona, ASU, and probably Utah.

North: Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford
South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, ASU, Utah, Colorado

A little bit disappointed that all of the California schools aren't all together, but apparently this was a stipulation of Colorado joining, as they want more exposure in Southern Cal. Can't wait until the Stanford band makes fun of Utah... expect polygamy jokes by the bunches and deeply offending the LDS.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:59 pm

Boise State flees to the MWC, only to see the MWC's flagship program be whisked off to a BCS Conference. Classic.

Boise State has really become America's bitch. Can we just make the Boise/TCU Fiesta Bowl game an annual event and be done with it?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby fairvis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:14 pm

swerb wrote:Boise State flees to the MWC, only to see the MWC's flagship program be whisked off to a BCS Conference. Classic.

Boise State has really become America's bitch. Can we just make the Boise/TCU Fiesta Bowl game an annual event and be done with it?



Can't anymore, swerb... it's a conference game after 2011.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:21 pm

fairvis wrote:
swerb wrote:Boise State flees to the MWC, only to see the MWC's flagship program be whisked off to a BCS Conference. Classic.

Boise State has really become America's bitch. Can we just make the Boise/TCU Fiesta Bowl game an annual event and be done with it?



Can't anymore, swerb... it's a conference game after 2011.

I know. Makes it even more appropriate.

Pac-10 becomes the Pac-12. Big Ten has 12 teams. Big 12 has 10 teams. Boise still has their pecker in their hands.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:26 pm

So barring more adds from the Big Ten, what do you see the divisions shaping up as?

I have stated before that I think UM and OSU can be split up, but I've changed my mind. There isn't a great way to split the divisions geography wise, as that way the East ends up with 3 of the 4 power schools. So put PSU in with Nebraska, then split Iowa/Wisc up between the two divisions, and after that divide them so as best to preserve as many rivalries as possible. While history isn't a certainty, having a final regular season week with OSU-Michigan and Nebraska-PSU to determine the title game participants seems like something too good to pass up.

Also FWIW there is definitely some residual bad blood between PSU and Nebraska from the 94 season (and I have heard the Huskers feel they got robbed in 82, although that seems nuts to me) that could be further cultivated.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:30 pm

I'd go straight East-West:

Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue

Illinois
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska

The discrepancy in strength between the two divisions is exaggerated IMO. If anything the West was deeper than the East last season. And I want the rivalries preserved. I don't want to see Ohio State-Michigan go the way of Nebraska-Oklahoma, and I DEFINITELY don't want to see a Buckeyes-Wolverines rematch in the title game.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:15 pm

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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:22 pm

I like the East-West setup.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:23 pm

What about

South

OSU
PSU
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern

North
UM
MSU
Wisco
Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska

Protected games
OSU-UM
PSU-MSU

Then just make the other ones up to give each team one. Then again if JoePa quits PSU could take a quick turn for the worse, maybe not though. Probably a little too light in the South division, just throwing it out there.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:29 pm

OSU
PSU
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern


That's.....Just..... Awful.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:30 pm

Yeah Z, we definitely need to protect PSU-MSU. What a tragedy if this monstrosity were to never see the light of day again:
Image
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:31 pm

I just dont like the idea of OSU, UM, and PSU being in the same division with these current teams. Too much power in that division. Like that article aoxo posted if you dont balance the conferences you are going to make the title game garbage (ala the Big X(II)).
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:32 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Yeah Z, we definitely need to protect PSU-MSU. What a tragedy if this monstrosity were to never see the light of day again:



Haha, I know, I know. Half assed rivalry, but my divisions cover the rivalries so well there aren't others that are obvious to keep besides OSU/UM
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:33 pm

Wisco, Iowa, and Nebraska balance out OSU, scUM, and PSU.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Wisco, Iowa, and Nebraska balance out OSU, scUM, and PSU.


I suppose you are right, I overestimated PSU's power because of their last few seasons. PD article with records for the last 10 years and all time

Ohio State, 102-25 (.803) -- 230-74-5 (.752)
Michigan, 81-43 (.653) -- 222-80-5 (.731)
Wisconsin, 86-43 (.667) -- 170-129-4 (.568)
Michigan State, 60-62 (.492) -- 153-141-4 (.520)
Purdue, 67-57 (.540) -- 133-156-4 (.461)
Indiana, 39-78 (.333) -- 118-167-3 (.415)

Nebraska, 84-44 (.656) -- 242-71-1 (.772)
Penn State, 77-46 (.626) --218-86-1 (.716)
Iowa, 80-45 (.640) -- 182-116-5 (.609)
Minnesota, 62-62 (.500) -- 129-162-2 (.444)
Illinois, 45-73 (.381) -- 124-162-5 (.435)
Northwestern, 61-61 (.500) -- 116-172-3 (.404)

Those are their picks for divisions, but perhaps those numbers can give us more of a base to discuss this.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:44 pm

First, I don't think splitting teams up geographically is necessary anymore.

Division 1:

Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Illinois
Indiana
Purdue

Division 2:

Nebraska
Penn State
Iowa
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Minnesota

This splits up the 4 traditional powers evenly, 2 in each division. Each division also has 2 teams known to It keeps the majority of the rivalries in-division, and sets up a couple new potential rivalries with Nebraska's addition: Nebraska/Penn St., and Nebraska/Iowa. Each team would play all teams in its division every year (5 games) plus 3 out-of-division games on a rotating basis, essentially letting a team play every other team in the conference at least every other year.

Arguments for small changes could be heard...perhaps switching Wisconsin and Illinois. But I think splitting up the traditional powers is the way to go, and let the less traditional powers fall in from there. If there are protected games, I think each team should have one, rather than have some teams have one and others not.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:47 pm

Also, I love the moniker "Farmageddon" for the Nebraska/Iowa rivalry. Having driven through both states, it's absolutely appropriate.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:55 pm

How do the all time #'s support Wisc/Iowa/Nebraska balancing out OSU/UM/PSU? Three .700+ teams vs 1. Wisconsin isn't even at .600.

Those last 10 years for PSU are severely skewed by the first 5 years, the worst stretch in the team's modern history. They're at .759 for the past 5 years, which is pretty close to Joe's career (.753).

Also, those CLEARLY aren't the all time records. Joe has won nearly 100 more games than it has PSU listed as even playing.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:57 pm

Just looked it up, Iowa's all time record is .530, Wisc is .566, Nebraska .701, PSU .691, OSU .717, UM .737.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:58 pm

aoxo1 wrote:
Also, those CLEARLY aren't the all time records. Joe has won nearly 100 more games than it has PSU listed as even playing.


Correct, they are last 25 years. My bad.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:01 pm

25 years is probably a good number to look at, as it weights both history and recent success without giving a team like Minnesota undue respect.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:03 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Just looked it up, Iowa's all time record is .530, Wisc is .566, Nebraska .701, PSU .691, OSU .717, UM .737.



To me conference power rankings for the top 6 go

OSU
UM
Nebraska
Penn State
Wisconsin
Iowa

That falls pretty close to their all time records. I think you need to evenly divide those 6 to have even conferences.

Then it doesnt really matter but MSU is the best of the rest.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:35 pm

No doubt those are the power rankings. But are Iowa and Wisconsin really on that list, or merely the best of the rest?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:47 pm

Isn't it time to rename this thread "Sike" or "Move along nothing to see here"?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:48 pm

aoxo1 wrote:No doubt those are the power rankings. But are Iowa and Wisconsin really on that list, or merely the best of the rest?


Interesting, but I think you are right. I re-did the last 25 years with them in order. Seems pretty clear how they divide out in tiers. I am on your side now, even with recent success it is tough to put Wisco or Iowa in that group when looking at them longer than the last 5-10 years.
win % wins loss tie total
2 Nebraska 0.77229 242 71 1 314
6 Ohio State 0.75243 230 74 5 309
7 Michigan 0.73127 222 80 5 307
10 Penn State 0.71639 218 86 1 305

30 Iowa 0.60891 182 116 5 303
40 Wisconsin 0.56766 170 129 4 303
55 Michigan State 0.52013 153 141 4 298

73 Purdue 0.46075 133 156 4 293
78 Minnesota 0.44369 129 162 2 293
83 Illinois 0.43471 124 162 5 291
92 Indiana 0.41493 118 167 3 288
95 Northwestern 0.40378 116 172 3 291

This is going to be a tough call. I think my North/South divisions are too weak, but I dont see how you let Nebraska come in and only have to knock off Iowa and Wisco each year while OSU, PSU and UM beat each other up. Maybe you just say screw the geographics. Any reason they couldn't have different divisions in football and then divide up the other sports more geographically? Locations matter more for other sports than football IMO
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:50 pm

Divisions don't matter for the other spots; it's only really needed for football due to the limited number of games and lack of a conference tournament.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:58 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Divisions don't matter for the other spots; it's only really needed for football due to the limited number of games and lack of a conference tournament.


They are used for scheduling in the B12 basketball, they would play divisional teams twice and non divisional once.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:59 pm

OSU and scum can be separated, just set a special provision for a rivalry game each year. Doesn't the SEC do that with a few teams?
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:14 pm

Every team in the SEC has a set inter-division game. I think the Big Ten would do that, too, to help preserve additional rivalries and/or create the most big games possible (ie: OSU/Mich would be paired up with PSU/Nebraska).

But assuming Michigan regains its form, do you really want them to play two weeks in a row every couple years? Obviously that could happen occasionally, but best to use that last week for intra-division rivalries IMO.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby fairvis » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:19 pm

FUDU wrote:OSU and scum can be separated, just set a special provision for a rivalry game each year. Doesn't the SEC do that with a few teams?


Yes, they do- it's how you get Alabama-Tennessee and Florida-LSU occurring each year.

I did an analysis based on conference record (eliminating the Glen Mason factor) over the past 10 years. Here it is for your enjoyment...

OK, I'm going to get scientific on this now. I'll use conference records only because of eliminating the Glen Mason factor (scheduling 4 patsies to boost total winning percentage).

If we break down the conference by conference record (Big XII for Nebraska, Big Ten for all others) over the past 10 years (2000-2009), we get these results:
School, Percentage, Record
Ohio State, 0.800, 64-16
Michigan, 0.662, 53-27
Iowa, 0.613, 49-31
Nebraska, 0.573, 47-35 (note 2 additional games due to Big XII Championship appearances, when taken out, becomes 0.588, 47-33)
Penn State, 0.562, 45-35
Wisconsin, 0.550, 44-36
Purdue, 0.512, 41-39
Northwestern, 0.475, 38-42
Michigan State, 0.400, 32-48
Minnesota, 0.375, 30-50
Illinois, 0.325, 26-54
Indiana, 0.225, 18-62

All computations from this point ignore Nebraska’s two CCG losses.

In a fully geographic setting ,we would have:

East: Ohio State (#1), Michigan (#2), Penn State (#5), Purdue (#7), Michigan State (#9), Indiana (#12); Average PCT: 0.527, Average Ranking = 6
West: Iowa (#3), Nebraska (#4), Wisconsin (#6), Northwestern (#8), Minnesota (#10), Illinois (#11); Average PCT: 0.487 , Average Ranking = 7

A true competitive balanced conference would be:

Woody: Ohio State (#1), Indiana (#12), Iowa (#3), Minnesota (#10), Penn State (#5), Northwestern (#8); Average PCT: 0.508
Bo: Michigan (#2), Illinois (#11), Nebraska (#4), Michigan State (#9), Wisconsin (#6), Purdue (#7); Average PCT: 0.505

However, we have the possibility of the Ohio State - Michigan double dip at the end of the season. So, swap Iowa and Northwestern (average PCT of 0.546) for Michigan and Michigan State (Average PCT of 0.531). We're left with:

Easternish: Ohio State (#1), Indiana (#12), Michigan (#2), Minnesota(#10), Penn State (#5), Michigan State (#9); Average PCT: 0.504
Westernish: Iowa (#3), Illinois (#11), Nebraska (#4), Northwestern (#8), Wisconsin (#6), Purdue (#7); average PCT: 0.510

The only team that’s really screwed in this is Minnesota, losing Paul Bunyan’s Axe for the Little Brown Jug, as well as splitting Purdue and Indiana. A 5-2-1 conference schedule can accommodate this, and if we go to 9 conference games, a 5-2-2 schedule will play every team in a home-and-home arrangement in 4 years.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby fairvis » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:09 am

Texas A&M's Rivals site reporting that they're leaving the Big 12 for the SEC so either something's going down, or they got hacked. Armageddon is nigh if this is the case, hello superconferences, the death of the Big 12, and Texas going independent and airing only on the Longhorn Network.

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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:43 am

I've been hearing this rumor for the past two weeks, but it is strange that I haven't heard about a potential 14th team. I guess the SEC can use the year to actively court Oklahoma or an ACC team (Fla St, Ga Tech, Va Tech), but usually with these conference shifts they like to have their ducks in a row before letting something like this leak.

I'm on the fence with this one, personally. It does give LSU the opportunity renew and strengthen an old blood-rivalry (which we are sorely lacking). But then again, LSU has had some success recruiting the Houston area solely by using the SEC as a sales tool. That would go away to an extent.
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Re: Conference Expansion/Reshaping

Unread postby fairvis » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:06 pm

It could be one domino. I would think that the SEC would probably be looking at going to 16, not 14... so bringing in A&M, Oklahoma, FSU, and Miami would certainly do that and balance the sides of the conference as they currently are in East/West format.
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