Cavs New Coach..Who Ya Got?

[pup]

Three scenarios.

LeBron Stays -

LeBron Goes -

LeBron won't commit -

[CP]

LeBron stays - Jeff Van Gundy
LeBron goes - who cares, we aren't winning anyway, someone entertaining
LeBron won't commit - sadly, whoever he wants within reason... we're better with him than without him.

[Bill the Butcher]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... ing_again/

[SoulDawg74]

[quote="pup"]Three scenarios.

LeBron Stays - If you can lure Phil Jackson raising his salry from $12 per to $15 million with stock

LeBron Goes - If you hire Lucas or Hubie Brown

LeBron won't commit - If you hire Van Gundy , willing to observe the rest of your offseason moves


SoulDawg

[statmasta]

I'd love to have Larry Bird. He was a great coach with Indiana, he needs to get out of the executive ranks and back into coaching.

[papacass]

Three scenarios.

LeBron Stays -

LeBron Goes -

LeBron won't commit -

The third scenario is the only one that matters. The Cavs will need to hire a coach before LeBron makes any decision. LeBron is waiting to see what they do, and in any case, you can't be coachless halfway through July.

They have to try and lure a winning coach here on spec, and do it in the next four-plus weeks. Good luck with that.

[peeker643]

They have to try and lure a winning coach here on spec, and do it in the next four-plus weeks. Good luck with that.

Nah. They have to lure a coach here who 23 respects and believes can win in the next 4+ weeks. I said it in 'The Wrap' but the next guy will be an ex-player and/OR a coach who's already won a title.

Still not easy. But I don't think you're confined to 'winning coach'.

[projectmayhem]

Unlikely etc, but I'm pulling for the Coach K option.

[papacass]

They have to try and lure a winning coach here on spec, and do it in the next four-plus weeks. Good luck with that.

Nah. They have to lure a coach here who 23 respects and believes can win in the next 4+ weeks. I said it in 'The Wrap' but the next guy will be an ex-player and/OR a coach who's already won a title.

Still not easy. But I don't think you're confined to 'winning coach'.

FTR, I'd be on board with Kevin McHale. He was a fairly cruddy GM, but dude knows some serious between-the-baselines basketball, and he has the type of hardware that someone like LeBron would have to respect. If McHale had devoted his post-playing career to purely coaching, I think he'd be one of the best coaches in the league right now.

[tired]

How available would Pat Riley be ? Seems like a better chance with him over Phil Jackson.

[CP]

A guy who has a history that includes recent failure is a tough sell no matter how good they are. As Phil Jackson and Pat Riley are the only guys who probably stand as clear replacements to Mike Brown because of their hardware, everyone else is going to have some degree of uncertainty or failure, and that's going to have to be rationalized and explained away.

Jeff Van Gundy? He coached in the EC during the Jordan era, easily explainable.
Coach K? Has won in college and in the Olympics and is a recognizable good Xs and Os guy, so he's fine.

Kevin McHale? Failed terribly as an exec; tough to show he'll succeed as a head coach.
[INSERT NAME OF FIRED HEAD COACH HERE]? Better be able to show clearly why it wasn't his fault or it's going to be a tough sell to LeBron and the rest of the league.

[peeker643]

I see Mark Jackson is interviewing for the Hornets job. A guy like that, if not Jackson himself, is along the lines of the guy I see getting the job.
YMMV

[pup]

I see Mark Jackson is interviewing for the Hornets job. A guy like that, if not Jackson himself, is along the lines of the guy I see getting the job.
YMMV

Yes yes and yes.

Exactly the guy I have my eyes on should LeBron stay. A little concerned with the lack of a resume, but I just get that feeling that this guy will be a fantastic NBA HC.

If LBJ is gone either way, what about Celtic Defensive Guru Guy to build a new foundation of defense wins titles?

[FUDU]

No thanks to Mark Jackson. Not all that enthused about a possible JVG either, haven't we seen enough of really bleh offense in this town. If Hubie was 65 then hell yeah.

Right now the only non NBA experienced guy I would like to see here (w/LeBron) is coach K. Otherwise just go for the gusto and try to pry Larry Brown out of MJ's grasp.

[Hi Oktane]

If LBJ is gone either way, what about Celtic Defensive Guru Guy to build a new foundation of defense wins titles?

I hear you, but isn't that essentially what Roker was and did. Until such time as the starting cast featured THREE defensive sieves in Mo, Shaq and Jamo --- no system has enough lipstick for those pigs --- (plus a guy in Lebron who began who, for the most part, traded the lockdown for the chasedown), his system was pretty danged transformational, was it not?

I was among those leading the call for Roker's head, but I can do so based on emotion and with no succession plan in mind. I just hope, regarless whether 'bron stays or goes, (and one would hope the Cavs have a strong sense that such a move greatly improves their chances of retaining TBPOTP) this doesn't turn out to be a move that will bite us in the long run, if not sooner.

[metalhead9x9]

Right now the only non NBA experienced guy I would like to see here (w/LeBron) is coach K. Otherwise just go for the gusto and try to pry Larry Brown out of MJ's grasp.

I was onboard for Larry Brown.....until I remembered the whole '04 Olympics fiasco. If LeBron is forgettin bygones then I'm all for it, but I dunno if he has.

I'd love Coach K, but I wonder if winning that 'ship helps or hurt the cause for jumping to the pro's.

McHale is very intriguing. Sure, lousy exec career, but he's got the championship pedigree as a player. He gave the Celts' their ring on a platter and he may know what it takes to take it away.

Whoever the next coach is, he not only needs to know X's and O's, more importantly, he needs to be the psychologist/motivator that can prevent another Game 5 from goin down.

[pup]

No thanks to Mark Jackson.

Why not?

I admit there is not a whole lot to go on, but I think the guy would be very good. Respect of players. Knows the NBA. Personality. Would successfully work officials, in game and between games.

Not sure what strikes he could possibly already have against him.

[Orenthal]

JVG
JVG
JVG

[Cease]

I'm not sold on Jackson, but this brings up an angle of thought- that is: Does a guy who played the game at the professional level know how to push buttons between the ears of NBA players that career coaches may not?

Last four coaches left this year (Small sample): Jackson played, Rivers played, Gentry played, SVG did not. Roker and SVG have had teams mentally melt in front of their coaching boxes.

Since 1985-86:
NBA Title winners w/ NBA (ABA) playing experience: Jackson-10, Riley-3, KC Jones-1, Tomjanovich-2*, Larry Brown-1, Glenn Rivers-1

NBA Title winners w/o NBA playing experience: Popovich-4, Chuck Daly-2

If you are going to change the voice in LeBron's ear (all things considered), I think it best to pick a former player to mentor him on leadership from experience rather than from shadowing a great coach like Spolstra, SVG, Mike Brown, or JOHN KUESTER did .

[Orenthal]

^That is a valid point. Marc Jackson was a point gaurd, and did get the job done with more savvy then skill, don't know...

[jerryroche]

SI.com reports that Lenny Wilkens would consider a return to the NBA coaching ranks at the age of 72. If he's still got the fire inside, he'd be a great choice, LeBron or no. Old pal Mike Fratello also says he'd like a shot. We've been round the block with him once, but he was a darned good coach IMHO.

[JoJo White]

Heh.

It's easy to say "Fire the bum!"

Not so easy to find an adequate replacement....

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

SI.com reports that Lenny Wilkens would consider a return to the NBA coaching ranks at the age of 72. If he's still got the fire inside, he'd be a great choice, LeBron or no. Old pal Mike Fratello also says he'd like a shot. We've been round the block with him once, but he was a darned good coach IMHO.

Why not bring back Whammer too while we're at it.

[SoulDawg74]

SI.com reports that Lenny Wilkens would consider a return to the NBA coaching ranks at the age of 72. If he's still got the fire inside, he'd be a great choice, LeBron or no. Old pal Mike Fratello also says he'd like a shot. We've been round the block with him once, but he was a darned good coach IMHO.

Why not bring back Whammer too while we're at it.

Heh.

It's easy to say "Fire the bum!"

Not so easy to find an adequate replacement....

SD:

The team quit on him led by the teams Superstar.

When players tune you out , your done.

His decision making and roster mechanizations at critical times were exposed as less than desirable ie he gagged like a maggot in form and grace which would make Shotenhiemer Jealous.

In a bottom line league with the best player in basketball five years running he regresed
failing to get to the finals in back to back disasters.


SoulDawg

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Top Choice: Mark Jackson. Young, former player, apparently knows his shit. I'd like to see him get a shot.

Second Choice: Zenmaster Phil or Wanderin' Larry. Definitely know their shit even if they're high mileage.

Acceptable Alternative: Jeff the Mortician. Not horribly impressed with his record, but eh.

Dark Horse: Dwayne Casey. Was getting decent results out of McHale's mess, I'd like to see him get a second shot.

I Start Mainlining The Everclear: Byron Scott. And you thought the Cavs quit against the Celtics.

[FUDU]

No thanks to Mark Jackson.

Why not?

I admit there is not a whole lot to go on, but I think the guy would be very good. Respect of players. Knows the NBA. Personality. Would successfully work officials, in game and between games.

Not sure what strikes he could possibly already have against him.

First b/c he has such a lack of a resume, and if LeBron were to stay, with our current roster situation, we are not in the position to allow our HCing position to be an entry level position, if you catch my drift.

Also, and this might sound kind of crazy, but he doesn't come across as one of those booth guys that you say "man that guy would probably make a great HC". For IE: a Doug Collins never had great success as a HC, but after he went back to the booth the guy sounds 10x smarter calling games, to the point one wonders why isn't he a coach. You can even say that about Hubie to a point.

Something about time in the booth that can really benefit these guys, although after their first go round in the coaching ranks IMO.

Jackson has never said anything that made me think he should be more than a JVG sidekick in the booth.

Not saying he never will be a HC, I just don't want to be the team that he experiments on.

[aoxo1]

Just let LeBron be a player-coach.

[fundamentals]

I would like to see Jeff Van Gundy or Mark Jackson, but that's me.

[Kingpin74]

Also, and this might sound kind of crazy, but he doesn't come across as one of those booth guys that you say "man that guy would probably make a great HC". For IE: a Doug Collins never had great success as a HC, but after he went back to the booth the guy sounds 10x smarter calling games, to the point one wonders why isn't he a coach. You can even say that about Hubie to a point.

Bingo. Just remember, it was football and he may have been a GM rather than a Coach, but Matt Millen sounded brilliant in the booth in the late 90's. Not saying Jackson and/or JVG would fail, TV just tends to cast some people in a very flattering light.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Bodog posted lines on who will be the next head coach of the Cavs:

Avery Johnson 9/1

Byron Scott 5/1

Jeff Van Gundy 20/1

John Calipari 9/4

Larry Brown 20/1

LeBron James 1000/1

Mike Budenholzer 16/1

Mike Krzyzewksi 20/1

Phil Jackson 15/1

Tom Izzo 12/1

Any Other Coach 6/5

Honestly thought I knew everything there is to know about the NBA, but I had to google Budenholzer, especially when I saw the how much of a legit shot they're giving him (ie more than JVG).

I really couldnt give a shit at this point who coaches the Cavs, but I'm one of those who doesnt put too much weight in coaching decisions. You're either a really good coach (Stan Van, Pop, Riles, etc), or a really bad coach (McHale, Dunleavy, MB, etc). There's no in-betweens. Brown is an excellent assistant coach, but he never showed true HC material. So long as the HC has his rotations straight, he can surround himself with good assistants and leave the X's and O's to them. Brown was always too concerned with X's and O's to ever learn how and when to rotate players correctly.

IM-very simplistic-O, the HC's most important job is to not fuck up his team. Not necessarily to make em better - that's reserved for the best of the best. Just dont bring em down.

Also, and this might sound kind of crazy, but he doesn't come across as one of those booth guys that you say "man that guy would probably make a great HC". For IE: a Doug Collins never had great success as a HC, but after he went back to the booth the guy sounds 10x smarter calling games, to the point one wonders why isn't he a coach. You can even say that about Hubie to a point.

Bingo. Just remember, it was football and he may have been a GM rather than a Coach, but Matt Millen sounded brilliant in the booth in the late 90's. Not saying Jackson and/or JVG would fail, TV just tends to cast some people in a very flattering light.

Kevin McHale would be another example. Guy is great in the booth, but sucked as a coach.

[fundamentals]

Most people I have seen/heard think that JVG is some sort of coaching leper. The guy won in NY, got run quickly when things didn't start well in his last season there, went to Houston, was pretty successful, always seemed with both teams to have guys hurt at crucial times. Pup, feel free to insert T Mac issues as well. He has been in the league and looks and sounds as though he could be of value to a team willing to hire him. Even in the NBA, it's still about the "jimmys and the joes" moreso than the "x's and o's".

[FUDU]

What exactly has JVG won?

[fundamentals]

What exactly has JVG won?

Zero NBA championships sir.

[peeker643]

What exactly has JVG won?

What guy you want who has won Donny?

Or do you want Nick Saban or Bobby Petrino?

Let me know which legendary coach that would be and just how anxious is he is to come here with the possibility that LBJ is gone anyway.

[FUDU]

Peek my point is JVG has received a lot of run about this vacancy, but why, his resume is nothing special by any means, his style is different from what we just had how exactly?

If you're going to get rid of an MB type, regardless of LBJ staying or leaving, then you better bring in somebody that is head & shoulders better or entirely different than him, right.

Hell at that point I'd rather hear Fratello's name mentioned.

[fundamentals]

Van Gundy's coaching record:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... je99c.html

The more I think about it, the more I am thinking Byron Scott is going to get the call from Mista Gilbert.

[peeker643]

Peek my point is JVG has received a lot of run about this vacancy, but why, his resume is nothing special by any means, his style is different from what we just had how exactly?

If you're going to get rid of an MB type, regardless of LBJ staying or leaving, then you better bring in somebody that is head & shoulders better or entirely different than him, right.

Hell at that point I'd rather hear Fratello's name mentioned.

OK. Fair enough. I don't want a newbie that doesn't have playing experience and I don't want a chalkboard wonder who's getting his first job.

That's all. I just think people overestimate the allure of this job given the billion dollar question hanging over the roof right now.

[RickNashEquilibrium]

He's won the same thing most coaches have the past 25 years - not much. Since 1985, there have been 7 different coaches to win a championship (Pops, Jackson, Brown, Rudy, Riley, Daly and Doc). KC Jones doesn't count because those Boston teams won a championship despite him.

From list, the Cavs might have a shot at Jackson, Brown, and Riley because the TMLP has the coffers to do so. Lebron being here is obviously the biggest question mark and I don't see Phil or Pat leaving their respective situations unless there is true star talent to coach (read Lebron + "other superstar here").

As of today, if the 3 guys above are off limits, I would have to go with JVG based on experience and the ability to coach talented, yet ego/troubled teams.

[Orenthal]

I'm giving McHale an incomplete as coach. Both times he stepped in as coach it was during a season and both times he was able to get more out of those players. Worth an interview yes, able to dismiss him out of hand, no.

Guy has played, knows playoff basketball, and has won rings...

[aoxo1]

McHale was 19-12 in his first stint as Timberwolves coach, 20-43 in his second (better than the 0.265 Whitman ran up for his tenure there). Considering he had to coach with the players he picked, hard to gauge his coaching prowess just on those numbers.

I have no idea if he is a good coach or not. I do know he was a terrible exec. But two different things.

[statmasta]

What exactly has JVG won?

Doc Rivers didn't win anything in Orlando, either, but he still won a title in Boston, and may win another.

In rare instances, re-tread coaches can be the way to go (but I don't want Van Gundy, either).

[jb]

Stays? Coach K

Goes? Jackie Moon for all I care. Just lose baby

no commit? Laimbeer

[TBigz]

Three scenarios.

LeBron Stays - Doc Rivers/Phil Jackson/Avery Johnson (raw deal w/ mavs in finals run)

LeBron Goes - Anyone Else.

LeBron won't commit - Anyone Else.

Really for me I see it as go big or go home. If we do not get a coach with a playoff/championship pedigree then our chances of retaining Lebron are extremely small. Also as far as Lebron wanting to have power over his coaches.. thats a bad idea. Phil Jackson is the man for the job because he has walked into situations like this with 'uncoachable' players like Jordan and Kobe who always tried to 'own' the team and the management. If Lebron want's to truly win a championship hes going to have to bring his ego down and let the coach install the offense and defense. Phil Jackson as talked about this many times with his tenure with the two greatest SG's that have played the game.

*Oh and thanks Swerb for fixing my account.

[Orenthal]

Avery Johnson wants complete control. Eeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww!

[TBigz]

Phil Jackson wanted complete control of Kobe and Jordan? Besides Cavs are setup for the Triangle Offense.

[papacass]

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cavaliers_assistant_coaches_wi.html

Windy reporting that the Cavs have retained Chris Jent, Melvin Hunt and Michael Malone from Mike Brown's staff. Jent is an obvious keeper because of his connection to LeBron. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Malone have a horse in the head coaching derby. He's widely regarded as one of the best young assistants in the league.

Whichever side of the ball he's coaching, the Cavs seem to do better.

[TBigz]

Everyone on the team can dish the ball to each other and shoot perimeter shots except for Andy/Shaq. Andy has the potential to learn though like Pau Gasol. Lebron likes to pass alot and the star player in the Triangle Offense has to be able to dish the ball out and the Big men have to learn how to become a triple threat ie: shooting/defense/assits etc.

[TBigz]

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cavaliers_assistant_coaches_wi.html

Windy reporting that the Cavs have retained Chris Jent, Melvin Hunt and Michael Malone from Mike Brown's staff. Jent is an obvious keeper because of his connection to LeBron. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Malone have a horse in the head coaching derby. He's widely regarded as one of the best young assistants in the league.

Whichever side of the ball he's coaching, the Cavs seem to do better.

Thats even better for us. Lebron isn't going to go back to the same 'muck' that failed many times in the playoffs. We need to bring in a hotshot championship coach that can control the locker room.

[papacass]

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cavaliers_assistant_coaches_wi.html

Windy reporting that the Cavs have retained Chris Jent, Melvin Hunt and Michael Malone from Mike Brown's staff. Jent is an obvious keeper because of his connection to LeBron. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Malone have a horse in the head coaching derby. He's widely regarded as one of the best young assistants in the league.

Whichever side of the ball he's coaching, the Cavs seem to do better.

Thats even better for us. Lebron isn't going to go back to the same 'muck' that failed many times in the playoffs. We need to bring in a hotshot championship coach that can control the locker room.

I don't think most players tend to lump the assistants in with the head coach. If anything, they'll grow fond of the assistants because they tend to develop closer, confidant-type relationships with players. When things go wrong, they'll antagonize the head coach because he's the authority figure. But the assistants are more often down in the trenches with the players, so the players will grow closer to them.

That's not a rubber-stamp approval of hiring Malone or Jent as the head coach, but I hardly think LeBron or any other Cavs player is automatically repulsed by the idea of a member of Mike Brown's staff taking the reins. The whole staff doesn't suck just because Brown did a crappy job of managing egos and rotations in the playoffs.

[Orenthal]

Phil Jackson wanted complete control of Kobe and Jordan? Besides Cavs are setup for the Triangle Offense.

...and Avery Johnson isn't Phil Jackson.