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I give. He's gone.

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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Sun May 16, 2010 11:27 am

Before I make an assessment of whether I want the man back or not, I need to know why he fell apart in the playoffs.

Is it because Roker is an idiot and he wants him gone? How does that make him any different than anyone else here? It's well documented on this forum this guy can't adjust, can't run an offense, and most of all can't motivate.

Is it because he realized his supporting cast of Danny Ferry midseason stop-gap players makes the Cavs a one man show? Again, how does that make him any different than anyone else here?

Should he have quit driving the lane taking elbows and knees in a hopeless effort? At the risk of further injuring his elbow or shoulder or whatever was the issue in his contract year?

It's easy to sit behind a screen and say what should have been done or we would have done. And n beer league softball we might have been the player who would launch the shortstop into left field to break up a double play and punched the coach in the nose for moving us to catcher. But we've never been in his position. We aren't "Pro Athlete 2010". I want more answers before I bury the guy.

As it stands right now, I'm going to miss him if he leaves.

SSS my apologies for my snappy reply. It's been an emotional week...
Last edited by Spin on Sun May 16, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun May 16, 2010 11:34 am

Doc wrote:You can't not want the guy back. I mean, he's the best shot we got. I'm as pissed about what happened in the last few games as anyone, and like many above, it'd be very hard to forget him for all of that. Dogging it in a game, a playoff game, is unacceptable. But, as much as I hate what happened, he's our best shot.

That being said...F the whole circus that's about to happen. I dislike Woj, but that piece from Friday was big for me. I want no part of some Coach Cal power-trip that LeBron could force. The whole idea of getting rid of Brown is to bring in someone who's got a clue how to coach. We've seen 7 years of LBJ getting just about whatever he wanted around here. Within reason, of course, because there's only so much TBO could do. And obviously adding payroll isn't an issue. I guess I'm in the fucked with him, fucked without him camp. Obviously, the team doesn't get better losing him, even in a best-case sign-and-trade scenario (and the likelihood of an S&T isn't all that high to begin with). But, after what I saw this week, I can't honestly say that I have that same belief I used to have, that he could get us to the ring. If he quit (and I'm hoping he didn't, but I saw what everyone else did), can you commit to a deal on his terms and know that kind of attitude won't show up again? Do you fellate the guy all summer and give him everything he could want just so he can bring in a coach he's already tight with?

I mean, this is a legit discussion. I don't know how true the Calipari rumors are, but if they are, is it worth it to keep him? Do the Cavs play hardball with him and say No to Calipari? Do they have that kind of leverage? That's what I'm most afraid of. Cleveland's only draw in keeping him (besides a higher max deal if he wants max years) is Gilbert's bankroll and willingness to do whatever LBJ wants. That scares the piss out of me. And I think that this decision is where everything hinges. The ONLY way Cleveland keeps him now, in my humblest of opinions, is to give LBJ free reign on bringing in his guy as coach. And that's a scary proposition right now.

There's a huge part of me that wants to see him in Chicago or in NY with Wade/Bosh. I want to see him with another star, and I want to see how he does. Frankly, I'm not sure what happens. He's not going to get that here unless we get really creative. I don't know, trying to stay out of the emotional aspect of a response. But how can't you get emotional on this? We watched our 1 shot at a title in this city dog it this series. That hurts. And in seeing 7 years of LeBron here, I know we're never going to get a straight answer about what happened. So, am I supposed to assume that a new coach is just going to make everything better for him? What happens when Calipari doesn't get us a title? Bron gonna throw him under the bus, too? Or what if we bring in Phillip or Larry Brown? Does LeBron run and hide if a coach finally grows a pair and doesn't deal with LBJ's shit? I think these are all very legit questions. Amazing how 2 games can change your perspective on a guy so much. But they have. The whole city feels it. It's like a fucking soap opera already. Just wait until July.


SD:

If you give in to Lebrons whims and bring in a proven incompetent (at the NBA level )Calipari, you might as well field next years roster with this years losers , for all the good you will do.

The Problem is Lebron doesn't have a coach he can respect like MJ and Kobe had in Phil Jackson.

Until you get a prick big enough to run herd over that 25 year old Milionaire pouty little baby
what you've witnessed the last three years will be on permanent rinse lather and repeat.

Don't know what his problems were with Brown , but the fact he thru in the towel and encouraged the team to lie down in Mutiny is a fuckin sin .

Dude ain't hard enough , no killa instinct and dare I say it , he shrunk under the pressure .

He ain't MJ Bird or Montanna , he's Fran Tarkenton channeling Jim Kelley .

He's damn near regular season Mo and Playoff Mo .

That collapse was just ugly inexcusable and has his fingerprints ingrained in the woodwork.

Just too much shit in the game .

Nobody smells clean least wise the cough cough (KING) .


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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun May 16, 2010 11:48 am

HoodooMan wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Then again maybe we got nothing to worry about and this was to Crucify Brown, and get his way like Kobe forced out Shack in LA.

SoulDawg


OK SD, but if this is the case then who do you think his top HC choices would be?!?!11!!?!?!!

Calipari said he's staying at UK!!!!!11!2!!!!!


SD:

Calipari would be a terrible coach at this level , but yet Lebron was courting him , so what does that say to you , but that the guy bitches about Brown the enabler , but yet wants to embrace an even bigger puppet.

We need a cach who can draw up his own offense not that stoopid ass bullshit committeee appraoch utilized by Brown , yet is astute enough to employ defense ala Doc Rivers.

Coaches with that type experience who also have played the game need only apply .

If they have a ring to boot , then Ooops there it is .

Gilbert would be well versed to sign the biggest free agent available of them all Phil Jackson ,which is about as likely to happen as a 70 degree balmy day in the middle of January in Cleveland.

Phil currently makes $12 million per , and it take something along the lines of what holmgren has with Lerner to bring him here .

$15 million per , plus a front office guy who polishes his cufflinks.

Next at Tier II is Van Gundy or Avery Johnson, with Mark Jackson as the Darkhorse.

Whomever they get the upgrade over Brown will be substantial , the dude was out coached by Vinny Delnegro in the bulls series and he had one leg out the door and another on a banana peel.


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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun May 16, 2010 1:10 pm

You can't not want the guy back.


I don't want him back. I'd be disgusted if they resigned him.

I mean, he's the best shot we got.


WTF has he won here? As many rings as Mark Price, Austin Carr and Terrell Brandon did. He hasn't won jack shit.

I'm sure Magic fans thought the world was coming to an end when Shaq skipped town too. Shockingly, the sun continued to rise in the morning and eventually they put another championship-caliber team in Orlando. Which is what would happen here. Might take a few years, but it would happen.

Even better, we could build a team with character, one we could be proud of. Not a one-man show directed by a 25-year old punk with a passel of sleazoid advisors.

Self-Edited: the thing about LBJ's mom was over the top.
Last edited by hermanfontenot on Sun May 16, 2010 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun May 16, 2010 1:35 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:I'm sure Magic fans thought the world was coming to an end when Shaq skipped town too. Shockingly, the sun continued to rise in the morning and eventually they put another championship-caliber team in Orlando. Which is what would happen here. Might take a few years, but it would happen.


Magic fans were to distracted riding the teacup ride and going to Daytona beach to notice or care.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby tired » Sun May 16, 2010 1:37 pm

Man, I wanted to see Z get that ring in Cleveland. Now, he probably gone !!!
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Sun May 16, 2010 1:39 pm

Bulls record before/after Jordan era: 1,027-1,318 (.437), 4-14 in playoff series.

Cavs record before LeBron -- 1,172-1,502 (.438), 4-13 in playoff series.

Without the superstar, they have been the same franchise. And each has been pretty much irrelevent without the superstar. Problem with LeBron is that it might be much more than the Cavs that becoe irrelevent if he leaves.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun May 16, 2010 1:48 pm

Herm I get what you are saying, but honestly I cannot respect that take, b/c before game 4 character was never an issue with this team or LeBron, ever (spare me the missing hand shake of 09). I can respect Spin's POV more, in the sense somebody wants to at least know what happened and why before making their final judgment on wanting him to stay or go now.

To use your own logic Herm, Howard is a loser as well, he has the exact same amount of rings as LBJ and Mark Price. The thing is there is only one title to win each season and only one team can win it. That right there limits the amount of winners the world of the NBA can ever have. I mean Derek Fisher is a winner right, he rode Kobe's coat tales to a ring, let's sign him up.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun May 16, 2010 1:51 pm

FUDU wrote:I can respect Spin's POV more, in the sense somebody wants to at least know what happened and why before making their final judgment on wanting him to stay or go now.


Spin's POV is that anyone born and raised in Akron shits rose petals.

My point is that we can survive LeBron James defecting. It can be done. It would take some bottom-feeding for a while but if we make the right decisions we'll be back, and we could be better. We can't put ourselves in a position where this guy is the be-all, end-all. He is not.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun May 16, 2010 1:55 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
FUDU wrote:I can respect Spin's POV more, in the sense somebody wants to at least know what happened and why before making their final judgment on wanting him to stay or go now.


Spin's POV is that anyone born and raised in Akron shits rose petals.

My point is that we can survive LeBron James defecting. It can be done. It would take some bottom-feeding for a while but if we make the right decisions we'll be back, and we could be better. We can't put ourselves in a position where this guy is the be-all, end-all. He is not.
Sure, I can agree with that, but your overall reaction to the situation at hand reads as way more subjective toward a very small sample size of LeBron, with little to no knowledge of what transpired.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun May 16, 2010 1:57 pm

FUDU wrote:Sure, I can agree with that, but your overall reaction to the situation at hand reads as way more subjective toward a very small sample size of LeBron, with little to no knowledge of what transpired.


"Little to no knowledge of what transpired?" I saw what transpired, Donny, and so did you. So did all of us.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun May 16, 2010 2:03 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
FUDU wrote:Sure, I can agree with that, but your overall reaction to the situation at hand reads as way more subjective toward a very small sample size of LeBron, with little to no knowledge of what transpired.


"Little to no knowledge of what transpired?" I saw what transpired, Donny, and so did you. So did all of us.
What happened and why? LeBron didn't show up, I've said it 30 times this week, but why? I don't buy the elbow as significant, but IDK & who does, so why did it go down that way Herm?

At this point in time I am personally not ready to say screw him no matter the reason and/or refuse to accept him on our roster for the future.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby waborat » Sun May 16, 2010 2:16 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
FUDU wrote:I can respect Spin's POV more, in the sense somebody wants to at least know what happened and why before making their final judgment on wanting him to stay or go now.


Spin's POV is that anyone born and raised in Akron shits rose petals.

My point is that we can survive LeBron James defecting. It can be done. It would take some bottom-feeding for a while but if we make the right decisions we'll be back, and we could be better. We can't put ourselves in a position where this guy is the be-all, end-all. He is not.


Herm, I'm shocked that this is your stance on the matter with you being the "history buff"...

Putting Kingie's spoiled attitude aside, he is THE only thing that can keep this franchise relevant in the future...

Every year we know we have a chance with him to win the big enchilada...Whether it's with the Eric Snow's & Donyell Marshall's or the Andy's & Mo's, we have a chance...

If he takes off then you might as well go back to calling the arena the Gund and expect to watch guys like Andrew DeClercq & Smush Parker all over again...

You say that it might take awhile to hit bottom, but we'll get there? When? How long? 1960-1994 Tribe long??? 1990-2010 Browns' long??? No guarantees with that logic...

I'm tired of seeing the Modell's, Thome's, Ramirez's, CC's, Harper's and even Kosar's going elsewhere and getting rings/trophies...Believe me, some day we will see Kingie get his as well and I'd rather see him do it in wine n gold then somewhere else...

If enough local people keep getting vocal about this matter then we won't have to worry about keeping him here because his mind will be made up pretty easily...I know, do we just let him walk all over this organization? Unfortunately in the NBA we do...

All I know is that I want to have REAL hope at the beginning of the season each year and go see an entertaining regular season game then watch the BS that was here for most of the past 40 years
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby daddywags » Sun May 16, 2010 2:43 pm

>>It would take some bottom-feeding for a while<<

Indeed. As awful as this franchise has been we haven't been "god-awful" enough often enough. I didn't know this before I looked it up but since 1973 we've picked in the top 5 of the draft exactly twice. Brad D. and Lebron J. That's it. (I know we traded away the Worthy pick, but we traded for the Daugherty pick, so that evens out.) If LeBron leaves, put me in the "losing is winning for a while" camp. Screw half measures and low lottery draft picks.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sun May 16, 2010 3:05 pm

FUDU wrote:What happened and why? LeBron didn't show up, I've said it 30 times this week, but why? I don't buy the elbow as significant, but IDK & who does, so why did it go down that way Herm?

Because even with Antawn and Shaq, he found out he still had to work his way to a title. It was much easier then to just start his July vacation in May.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun May 16, 2010 4:00 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:Even better, we could build a team with character, one we could be proud of. Not a one-man show directed by a 25-year old punk with a passel of sleazoid advisors and a crackhead cunt of a mother.



Now why are you talking shit about Delonte's girlfriend?


I'm as sick as amy other Cavs fan about what I witnesed last week. I can't explain it. Nobody can. But Lebron plays basketball better than I've ever seen anyone do anything. I can't believe that we are better off without him. I hope we don't have to find out.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Sun May 16, 2010 4:20 pm

Well, looks like we have an explanation now.

Boston is really, really good.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sun May 16, 2010 4:22 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:Well, looks like we have an explanation now.

Boston is really, really good.


Which is why Rajon Rondo consistently outplayed and outperformed the league MVP.

Bron didn't quit, he's just not as good as Rondo. Gotcha.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun May 16, 2010 4:25 pm

I think its a pretty good miz of what people have thrown out there; quitting, Boston team defense, lack of support, crappy coaching... I'm sure there is more. Individual posters will assign %'s to those variables, don't think there is a smoking gun.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Mon May 17, 2010 3:13 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:Spin's POV is that anyone born and raised in Akron shits rose petals.


Oh stop it, you're mixing up two different threads.

It doesn't matter where he's from. If Peyton Manning played for the Browns for 7 years, got us to the Super Bowl, and was then leaving, and we had at least 5 years of SUCK ahead of us, I'd miss him too.

I know a lot of people's knee jerk coping mechanism would be "F him. He's a prima dona. We're better off without him!!!"

Not me. I never go through that phase. I don't like what it's going to do to the team.

The Ak point I made was that some people are going to root for him no matter where he goes. That's a simple fact and no amount of cussing people out is going to change that. Hell look how many idiots wear Steelers gear around, and they have no connection with Shitsburgh at all...
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Mon May 17, 2010 3:18 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:Well, looks like we have an explanation now.

Boston is really, really good.


They had one of the best records in the league before the injuries took hold. And now they have a multi-tool point guard.

For those who have never seen a true point guard in the Ferry regime, here's the definition: Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, they are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby waborat » Mon May 17, 2010 5:15 pm

Spin wrote:
For those who have never seen a true point guard in the Ferry regime, here's the definition: Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, they are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football.


Ah, now I see, so the Cavs shoulda traded up for Tebow?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Mon May 17, 2010 5:55 pm

He may have had less turnovers...
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