The Specific Pacific Thread

[Bayou Tribe]

Another bit of insight on the real Snafu, Merriell Shelton, from a former neighbor. Wierd coincidence at the end, adding another level of eeriness to his legend.


http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/03/the-real-snafu-from-the-pacific.html

In a dark and bizarre coda to the tale, Snafu's old house on Highway 61 was later inhabited by the infamous Derrick Todd Lee, who was living there while he was carrying out his serial murders.

[waborat]

Last night's showing sure wasn't what I was expecting after the last couple of roller coasters, but when it was over I sat there thinking that the writers did a great job about both duty, family & love...

The "Slap the Japs" & "Cup of coffee" scenes were very moving as well...

John Basilone: A True American leader

[skatingtripods]

I think my overall problem with The Pacific is that it has been too "Pearl Harbor-ized". I'm not a Pearl Harbor fan because I don't like the love story that they attached to the movie. It probably comes from my historical background, but I'm more interested in the battles and cataloging the entire war on the front lines for the division(s). That's why I liked Band of Brothers so much.

I realize The Pacific is intended to be made differently, and through the eyes of a few rather than a whole platoon or company. But, I can do without it. I know the perspective that it's trying to bring, but it's just not what I want to see. I found myself bored for the first 35 minutes of last night's episode. I've found myself bored watching for other stretches of other episodes too.

The last couple weren't like that. But it was back to that last night.

Again, it's a different side of war. One I obviously knew about because those relationships are always there. But, not one that I want to see portrayed in a miniseries like this. And yes, I could watch the History Channel instead. I guess I just had the wrong impression going in.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

History Channel's WWII In HD was really really good. The stuff written by Robert Sherrod was incredible.

[mistero]

http://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhist ... RY_ID=2220

This site is pretty good for the back story. I wonder why Leckie never went back to Australia to find his girl? I might have, of course it might have been logistically impossible.

[jb]

I think my overall problem with The Pacific is that it has been too "Pearl Harbor-ized". I'm not a Pearl Harbor fan because I don't like the love story that they attached to the movie. It probably comes from my historical background, but I'm more interested in the battles and cataloging the entire war on the front lines for the division(s). That's why I liked Band of Brothers so much.

I realize The Pacific is intended to be made differently, and through the eyes of a few rather than a whole platoon or company. But, I can do without it. I know the perspective that it's trying to bring, but it's just not what I want to see. I found myself bored for the first 35 minutes of last night's episode. I've found myself bored watching for other stretches of other episodes too.

The last couple weren't like that. But it was back to that last night.

Again, it's a different side of war. One I obviously knew about because those relationships are always there. But, not one that I want to see portrayed in a miniseries like this. And yes, I could watch the History Channel instead. I guess I just had the wrong impression going in.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, is as bad as buttface Afflack and stiff Hartnett, but yeah, lots of home front background.

I really think that the putre theatre would have just ben too intense for 10 episodes. If nou notice, most of ez company made most of the campaign thru together. I just don't think that happened with island hoping marines. I think we can see why after the series.

Plus you know hanks thinks hes Burns now instead of a movie producer, So you have to suffer that if that is your thing. BoB was more about the whole greatest generation recognition, P emphasizes the heroic sacrifices individuals made.

Clearly, the focus on BoB was the company and unity with just the only smallest of focus on Whittman.

The Pacific is about individuals, and far more characetr development in the whole, so yeah, it is that appropach of the rediculous PH remake.

I love Tora Tora Tora.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This series has NOT been Pearl Harborized and any suggestion of such is an insult to its depth and the mental anguish suffered by those who's stories are being told

JMHO....

If you were counting, Basilone served about 33 days in actual combat. Intense, of course but, it paled in comparison to others. If you want to know the story of the 1st Marine CMOH receipient in the PT then by default you must suffer his stateside life.

As for the BoB unity that some wanted to see all the explanation necessary is in the casualty rate.

In any event, anyone watching for just the action should prolly watch tonite as I suspect it will be full of the murder, mayhem and limb flying we all love along with the constant call for 'corpsman!'....just don't even tune in next week tho when it'll be all about comming home and adjusting to peace

The only way as I see it to get what some wanted would have been to make the series about Snafu and then incorporate Sledge for 10 series of balls to the walls combat

Snafu ends with the most time on the line followed by Sledge and imho is carrying the series...I liked him right off

2 cent

[skatingtripods]

This series has NOT been Pearl Harborized and any suggestion of such is an insult to its depth and the mental anguish suffered by those who's stories are being told

In no way was I insinuating the I don't care about the homefront. It's just not what I was looking for and expecting from this miniseries.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'm just talking about any comparisons to PH

I'm not seeing it

[jack_tors]

I think the one thing missing from this is the strong acting of the relativity unknown actors as seen in BoB. When you think back, that was a launching pad for a lot of guys. It did not have big names when it started, except for Ron Livingston, but a lot of those guys saw their careers pick up after stellar performances. Outside of the kid playing Sledge, I dont foresee the same kind of results for this group.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

It's a really good show and I love it. But' it's just not as good as BoB, and I love the Marine Corps. I guess it's just impossible to re-invent the wheel.

[skatingtripods]

I'm just talking about any comparisons to PH

I'm not seeing it

You're looking too deep in to what I'm saying. I'm saying that the emphasis on the homefront and relationships is closer to Pearl Harbor than it is Band of Brothers. Obviously, a lot of it just has to do with the fact that there was so much of Basilone being stateside.

I'll give you an example. In Band of Brothers, when Easy Company went into to Holland and liberated Eindhoven, they didn't show a lot of what probably went on there. But, in The Pacific, when they got off the line and spent time in Australia, there was an entire episode dedicated to it.

Then they skipped ahead in the fighting.

When I think of the Pacific theater, I think of Wake Island, Midway, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. That's what I anticipated with this series. But, they focused on Peleliu and Guadalcanal because that's where the people the series is based off of fought.

I'm more interested in seeing the fighting and the battles. Band of Brothers did more of that. And that's what I'm trying to say.

[skatingtripods]

Hands down best episode of the series last night. Lots of powerful imagery.

[peeker643]

Hands down best episode of the series last night. Lots of powerful imagery.

It was very good. And that's a Cliff's Notes version of the suffering and misery on Okinawa. Like I mentioned earlier, read "With the Old Breed" by Sledge and you get a complete account of the rot, trench foot and misery that 14 straight days of a torrential rain, death and stress had on him and those guys. They honestly didn't know names of the new boots because those guy died before they could be added to the muster rolls.

Books and television have a difficult time conveying the smells of death, filth and excrement that these guys sat in, slept in and fought in, but Sledge painted a pretty chilling account of it in the book.

[waborat]

Really loved the direction of this one...

It was like the storytellers said here's all the shit these guys had to live in and go through, now good luck keeping up...

You just knew that we'd get our civilian episode and now that I saw it I'm ready for the series to end...Graphic & chilling stuff to say the least...

Also, thought it was interesting how they just kind of threw the atomic bomb into the final scene...The Marines just kinda looked around at each other and thought it was just another way to kill a "bunch of Japs" and really know big deal

[Fire Marshall Bill]

You're looking too deep in to what I'm saying.

You're right and I've likely done it more than once in the thread

Apologies

[skatingtripods]

You're looking too deep in to what I'm saying.

You're right and I've likely done it more than once in the thread

Apologies

No apologies necessary. Your personal insights have been enjoyable to read in the thread. And more than make up for something as trivial as a misunderstanding between our trains of thought.

[mistero]

I was tired all the killing and gore and it wasn't even real for me. I just wanted it to stop raining, stop the combat. Can't imagine the stress in the real world pacific theater. The graphic images were over the top, but they paled to real life I'm sure.

Didn't like the add on about the bomb either but I guess that's the way the heard about it. Needed 20 epidodes, not ten.

[waborat]

Needed 20 epidodes, not ten.

That's my only complaint about the whole series...

Felt way too rushed from beginning to end...

HBO should have upped another 200 mil

[jb]

I was tired all the killing and gore and it wasn't even real for me. I just wanted it to stop raining, stop the combat. Can't imagine the stress in the real world pacific theater. The graphic images were over the top, but they paled to real life I'm sure.

I'm absolutely convinced that Mysterio is not alone and that's why we got all the home front and PHesque romance bullshit. Too intense. Too much desensitation. I mean, we've all read about the Okinawan ciillians. How much of that can you really show before it just becomes volience porn and a mini-series about these honorable men becomes an installment in the Saw series?

20 wasn't needed. In fact, 10 might have been too long with this approach.

BTW - If you remade BoB starting at Paris 10 would have been just right IMO. And it probably would have been reduced to a last man standing in the company proposition. But I can see what Hankman didn't want to remake the same series with new geography.

[jack_tors]

Needed 20 epidodes, not ten.

That's my only complaint about the whole series...

Felt way too rushed from beginning to end...

HBO should have upped another 200 mil

I agree, this did feel too rushed at points. Maybe not another 10 but another 5 to expand on a few more key battles and invasions. Still gives ample story time for the civilian story lines. I didnt really enjoy the homefront stories at first but its all coming together and I see the points.

I have begun reading Leckie's Helmet For My Pillow. Very good read so far.

[mitch]

OK...may take an hour or so to lose the lump in my throat.

Kudos to Hanks and Spielberg for telling a story worth telling in such a magnificent way.

[swerb]

Very well done series. Like Band of Brothers, will be buying the DVDs and rewatching this once about every year for the rest of my life.

If the actor that played Sledge doesn't win some kind of award for this performance, its a travesty. Wanna read Sledge's book.

Heres hoping Spielberg and Hanks continue to collaborate on more WWII related projects. I can't get enough of em.

[skatingtripods]

Started off strong, got weak in the middle, and then picked it up well at the end. I thought it was good. Not great. Band of Brothers was great.

The last two episodes were excellent. Beautifully done. Plenty of powerful imagery.


That said, the ending showing what the soldiers did post-war shed some more light on why it was so different from BoB in terms of focusing on a couple of characters. For Band of Brothers, they were able to talk to several more men. For this series, most of them were long gone. Even the guys who they profiled in depth, everything was from their memoirs.

I'll watch it again at some point in the near future, knowing what happened so I won't be caught off-guard and re-evaluate my thoughts on it.

[peeker643]

Very well done series. Like Band of Brothers, will be buying the DVDs and rewatching this once about every year for the rest of my life.

If the actor that played Sledge doesn't win some kind of award for this performance, its a travesty. Wanna read Sledge's book.

Heres hoping Spielberg and Hanks continue to collaborate on more WWII related projects. I can't get enough of em.

Sledge's book is excellent. Much more battle intensity-related. Gotta say I like Leckie's more thus far.

[waborat]

Excellent ending to superb series...

I found it really interesting on how the war changed both Leckie & Sledge...You had Sledge, who had a solid home & childhood, who became affected and disappointed in how his country quickly moved on from what happened...It was truly moving watching his father understand what he went through and how he tried to help him heal...

As far as Leckie, he was the complete opposite of Sledge...He returned to his estranged home, yet became a leader who forced himself into his old job and the girl-next-door...My favorite was when he just ignored his family's banter about strikes & tvs and looked into Vera's face and had his whole future mapped out from there...

Lena at the Basilone home was Ol Yeller for me...

And how about Snafu not waking up Sledge before he got off the train???

This ep might have been the best all around acted one?

Great Stuff!!!

Sidenote: would anyone be interested in Hankberg doing a Vietnam or Korean series?

[Fire Marshall Bill]

nm

[peeker643]

nm

Why'd ya kill that? I thought it was dead-nuts on. I'd love to see a VN series BECAUSE of all that. I'm still a bit young to have seen first hand what those vets experienced.

And I hear ya on SNAFU too. You can play all the sports you want and new guys are new guys, but the crucible those FNGs had to walk into to prove themselves likely made them nothing but helmets and ponchos until they showed they were worthy of learning their names.

Again, not being a soldier myself, and not personally knowing guys in THAT kind of killing field, that series and the books that spawned them have taught me just how severe a situation that was. Sledge said in his book that 80% of the boots were killed on Okinawa.

A huge percentage before they could ever be added to the official roster.

Wsh you'd re-post that boss. It doesn't come off as sour grapes to the people who are glued to that series or the military history of this country.

[waborat]

nm

Why'd ya kill that? I thought it was dead-nuts on.

Wsh you'd re-post that boss. It doesn't come off as sour grapes to the people who are glued to that series or the military history of this country.

Couldn't agree more...

Get that AWOL post back in here

[peeker643]

nm

Why'd ya kill that? I thought it was dead-nuts on.

Wsh you'd re-post that boss. It doesn't come off as sour grapes to the people who are glued to that series or the military history of this country.

Couldn't agree more...

Get that AWOL post back in here

Guy took his post down and went over the hill.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Sorry bout that but...I had the sudden feeling that it was just hanging out there as a target and us guys have become pretty defensive over the yrs. The last times I spoke so much of the subject it was met with ridicule...not lumping you guys into that bowl, its just an ingrained reaction

To put it in a nutshell, I thought the series was the best depiction I've ever seen not only of the horror that is infantry combat but, the biggest hurdle of all, comming home and adapting......Now what? can last a long long time

I don't know if it was the intent or not but, IMHO, this was a 'film' for Veterans of war. I be very surprised to hear of one that saw it and didn't like it

It hit more psychological points than I can count and I'll likely see it all 5 more times on HBO before it comes out in a set

If you just ask, to make up for it, I'll send you a Flikr link with some pics of real helicopter flights and insertions,'psychos' buring hooches, posing with M-60's while pinning daisy's to their uni's & wearing peace symbols and little 16 yr old Vietnamese interpreters giving you the finger before they took off on a mission with US

[peeker643]

Well I'd like to see 'em if you'll pm me the link or I can pm you my email address. And just how much did the VN's generation of soldiers pay for their old men being so withdrawn? Was that it at all or was a mix of that and the societal changes along with the method of warfare?

[waborat]

Well I'd like to see 'em if you'll pm me the link or I can pm you my email address. And just how much did the VN's generation of soldiers pay for their old men being so withdrawn? Was that it at all or was a mix of that and the societal changes along with the method of warfare?

Ditto what Peek said

[peeker643]

Thanks for sharing those FMB. And make sure you preserve those things.