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I give. He's gone.

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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby CP » Fri May 14, 2010 1:43 am

FUDU wrote:
I won't speculate further b/c I am not that way.

Post game interview totally hints toward Bron being very upset, uncomfortable and leaving. His body language is telling, his eye contact is telling.

This sucks, I feel cheated, not in an entitled way but that we never got to see what could happen.


Understood.

For the record, you have to wonder whether Jordan would warn LeBron about Reinsdorf, being that he screwed Jordan at the end of his career?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby jfiling » Fri May 14, 2010 1:58 am

CP wrote:
FUDU wrote:
I won't speculate further b/c I am not that way.

Post game interview totally hints toward Bron being very upset, uncomfortable and leaving. His body language is telling, his eye contact is telling.

This sucks, I feel cheated, not in an entitled way but that we never got to see what could happen.


Understood.

For the record, you have to wonder whether Jordan would warn LeBron about Reinsdorf, being that he screwed Jordan at the end of his career?

I thought it was mostly Jerry Krause, although Reinsdorf was at least passively involved in the screwing.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri May 14, 2010 6:31 am

C'mon people chin up

World Cup in 31 days :D
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby waborat » Fri May 14, 2010 6:45 am

FUDU wrote:If what I am hearing is true, this org. is moving at warp speed right now.


Wow, have probably the same kinda message on my phone this morning...

"Craziest & scariest week in the organization in half-a-dozen years, sounds like quick & swift changes coming, everyone is just numb"...

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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby RIBrownsFan » Fri May 14, 2010 7:00 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:C'mon people chin up

World Cup in 31 days :D


Nah, it still sucks at 6:59 after limited sleep.

And how is being reminded of Ireland getting screwed supposed to help?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri May 14, 2010 7:40 am

Just cannot help but wonder if we've been duped? Jon Berry reinforces the possibility by bringing up the fact LeBron was disengaged from all the camaraderie as the season ended, yet we were convinced it was b/c his light went on on his focus was actualized.

The last time we saw the LeBron James we know was the first quarter in game 3. Ever since then he has been mentally absent in general. The impact on this roster is what might be a major factor in both LeBron's future and the Cavaliers as well. With the pre game 4 LeBron James this roster has versatility and is somewhat respected around the league and in the media. With the post game LeBron this roster is pfft, right, I mean we saw the future, no?

If this all comes down to a recent development that impacts his decision and pushes him to leave then the accusations of tanking are not that far off, at least in regards to mentally tanking. Which IMO is whacked and he really would owe the org and his teammates an apology.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby papacass » Fri May 14, 2010 7:47 am

FUDU wrote:In the search for a new coach, a top flight one, does that then put Ferry at risk? I mean if a Larry Brown was interested, but wanted control, Ferry has to be gone right? Assuming LeBron has fully committed to staying if he was in the know.


Other than the biggest offer, the only ace Gilbert has up his sleeve with LeBron is trying to lure a big name here to take over the shop. And the only way you're going to lure a big name here is with the dual coach/GM roles and a crapload of money.

So, yes, I think it's highly probable that Brown and Ferry are both gone.

This organization is about to get majorly renovated whether LeBron stays or goes. It's going to get bulldozed if LeBron leaves.

If LeBron feels that this isn't the best situation for him, I hope he comes out and says it soon. Let's move on right away, because Gilbert has a LOT of work to do. Especially if he's looking for his own escape hatch. It's probably bad business to sell your once-valuable asset as a smoking wreck. At least throw a few coats of paint on it first.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri May 14, 2010 7:56 am

papacass wrote:
FUDU wrote:In the search for a new coach, a top flight one, does that then put Ferry at risk? I mean if a Larry Brown was interested, but wanted control, Ferry has to be gone right? Assuming LeBron has fully committed to staying if he was in the know.


Other than the biggest offer, the only ace Gilbert has up his sleeve with LeBron is trying to lure a big name here to take over the shop. And the only way you're going to lure a big name here is with the dual coach/GM roles and a crapload of money.

So, yes, I think it's highly probable that Brown and Ferry are both gone.

This organization is about to get majorly renovated whether LeBron stays or goes. It's going to get bulldozed if LeBron leaves.

If LeBron feels that this isn't the best situation for him, I hope he comes out and says it soon. Let's move on right away, because Gilbert has a LOT of work to do. Especially if he's looking for his own escape hatch. It's probably bad business to sell your once-valuable asset as a smoking wreck. At least throw a few coats of paint on it first.
Gilbert is a smart man, he won't allow himself to go down due to this, which leads me to suspect if LBJ is gone Gilbert puts on a full assault to dump salary and bring in the biggest names possible to return the team to the point of contention ASAP. From the business standpoint it makes the most sense, as opposed to watching things unfold slowly over the next 3-4 years and risk a completely drop off and the value of the franchise evaporating.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby fundamentals » Fri May 14, 2010 8:00 am

Why would LBJ show his cards now? He has held them close to the vest, as of now. I don't see him diverting from that plan. I just think it's really amusing that most people now see this guy for what he really has been from the start, all about himself.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby papacass » Fri May 14, 2010 8:43 am

I mentioned to DSkills before that LBJ has never really had an MJ, cut-from-the-JV-team moment. He's never had a time where he has been totally humbled, where someone told him "you're not good enough." He's never had that kind of gut-check, soul-searching time in his life. I can't say everything has been easy for LeBron, but since his junior year of high school, it has certainly all happened on his terms.

This might be that humbling time for LeBron, where he really needs to figure some things out about himself. I can't help but think that the LBJ that emerges next season, whether here or elsewhere, is going to be noticeably different.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby RIBrownsFan » Fri May 14, 2010 8:51 am

papacass wrote:I mentioned to DSkills before that LBJ has never really had an MJ, cut-from-the-JV-team moment. He's never had a time where he has been totally humbled, where someone told him "you're not good enough." He's never had that kind of gut-check, soul-searching time in his life. I can't say everything has been easy for LeBron, but since his junior year of high school, it has certainly all happened on his terms.

This might be that humbling time for LeBron, where he really needs to figure some things out about himself. I can't help but think that the LBJ that emerges next season, whether here or elsewhere, is going to be noticeably different.


That's a really interesting thought. I do wonder, however, if two months or so of being treated as the belle of the ball with his free agency is going to serve to humble him at all...
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri May 14, 2010 8:52 am

papacass wrote:I mentioned to DSkills before that LBJ has never really had an MJ, cut-from-the-JV-team moment. He's never had a time where he has been totally humbled, where someone told him "you're not good enough." He's never had that kind of gut-check, soul-searching time in his life. I can't say everything has been easy for LeBron, but since his junior year of high school, it has certainly all happened on his terms.

This might be that humbling time for LeBron, where he really needs to figure some things out about himself. I can't help but think that the LBJ that emerges next season, whether here or elsewhere, is going to be noticeably different.
Outside of the pressure of being projected an NBA great at 18, he has had everything handed to him. This org. has almost been afraid to make a peep toward LeBron in the fear of scaring him off. IIRC some of the recent article have stated it as well. Not to mention he has not had a coach in which he has had to respect as a basketball superior and as an authoritative figure he must answer to.

So I agree with you but would find it surprising to see him humbled soon seeing as he has himself spread so thin in his focus on everything that is LeBron, marketing company, endorsements, China and his ultimate goal of a business legacy.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Fri May 14, 2010 9:53 am

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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri May 14, 2010 10:05 am

That was a dick move, not sure if intentional, although it would be hard to argue against it by looking at that video. The press needs to find that ballboy and get a full debrief. Ugh...
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby GtX11 » Fri May 14, 2010 10:11 am

If you watch the post game interview with James, you can tell that he is a liar. The tells are all over it.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Fri May 14, 2010 10:32 am

Orenthal wrote:That was a dick move, not sure if intentional, although it would be hard to argue against it by looking at that video. The press needs to find that ballboy and get a full debrief. Ugh...


Christian Eynga posted this on his face book, when it had 300 views. It ended up on mine, and I tried to defend it last week, when peppered by a couple of friends, who are not Cleveland fans. I brushed them off by telling them, he was focused on the game, and was an oversight. Might be the last time I ever have to defend the POS.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri May 14, 2010 10:50 am

GtX11 wrote:If you watch the post game interview with James, you can tell that he is a liar. The tells are all over it.


Why, because he was fidgety and touching his face and hair? Not looking anyone in the eye when answering questions? It was an hour+ after his season being over, did you expect him to reveal what his intentions are? I took it as he was more irritated that he had to come out and answer questions, that he would have preferred to be somewhere else. (just like game 5) He answered questions very vaguely so not to throw his teammates under the bus. However, he had no problem asking Windhorst to repeat his question regarding rotations and gameplan, almost asking Brian to repeat it so everyone could pay attention, than pretty much throw Brown under the Healthline.

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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Fri May 14, 2010 1:41 pm

aoxo1 wrote:The only question is whether he informed all of these guys in the huddle as the game wound down.


I think they got the idea in game 5 when he took a good look around him, realized he couldn't beat Boston by himself over and over again, and the fact that Roker is a fuckin' retard who's best answer was benching Z after a monster block, and packed it in.

He has so many veteran players, like KG, warning him that loyalty will cost you later on, hell they even have me almost convinced.

Like Dan Patrick said, build Bron a statue, and put it in front of the airport.

The only question is, which fans will stand behind the local talent, and who Boooooozers him when he returns?
Last edited by Spin on Fri May 14, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Fri May 14, 2010 2:19 pm

If LeBron feels that this isn't the best situation for him, I hope he comes out and says it soon.


LeBron would be stupid to say whether he was staying or not right now. And July 1st is not "National Signing Day", it's the FIRST day he can sign. Not the last. This could go on for months. Hell he could pull a Brett Favre and avoind training camp.

He's taking a vacation, then he's going to see what each team is going to offer.

For the Cavs, step #1 was firing Brown today. Check. Step two is somehow working the cap and moving stiffs to get a Chris Bosh here through a S&T.

They have to trump what Chicago has to offer. With no cap room and no draft picks, basically delete Shaq and add Sasha Kahn, and you have the Cavs 2010-11

And don't forget, New York has enough cap space to add TWO max contracts. If DWade or Bosh goes to MSG, and they hire a coach he respects, they're a player.

Dallas may be in the game.

I still think that's the determining factor, who is better equipped to win.
Last edited by Spin on Fri May 14, 2010 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri May 14, 2010 4:22 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Then again maybe we got nothing to worry about and this was to Crucify Brown, and get his way like Kobe forced out Shack in LA.

SoulDawg


OK SD, but if this is the case then who do you think his top HC choices would be?!?!11!!?!?!!

Calipari said he's staying at UK!!!!!11!2!!!!!
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby metalhead9x9 » Fri May 14, 2010 10:54 pm

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I'm listening to the Weds. Simmons podcast and he made a great point. He goes, he can never come back home to Akron (well, he can physically, but the enmity that would surround him would be unreal). He has to know that a sizable portion of his fanbase (even outside NE Ohio) will be alienated if he turns his back on this franchise. Whether he cares or not may be a gamechanger.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Sat May 15, 2010 12:16 pm

metalhead9x9 wrote:I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I'm listening to the Weds. Simmons podcast and he made a great point. He goes, he can never come back home to Akron (well, he can physically, but the enmity that would surround him would be unreal). He has to know that a sizable portion of his fanbase (even outside NE Ohio) will be alienated if he turns his back on this franchise. Whether he cares or not may be a gamechanger.


That's going to be interesting to watch. Will fans stay loyal to the Cavs? Or the player? North of the county line, it's obvious. He never claimed Cleveland to be his home town, and there's no real reason he should. And with a majority of Cleveland area fans, there's not that bond with him like there is the team.

South of the county line, I think a lot of fans are going to follow him. And the Cavs, as long as they're not playing against him.

Being FROM the hometown trumps playing FOR the home team.

When Andy Sonnenstine pitches against the Tribe, there are a lot of fans who say "Sorry Wahoo. We'll catch up with you tomorrow." Others don't.

It would ruin part of his fan base, but going to a much larger market would make up for it.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby JCoz » Sat May 15, 2010 12:25 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:


I posted about this the day after the game. Looks terrible.

What do you mean Eyenga had it on his facebook? is that even a real account?

WOnder what that was supposed to mean...
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat May 15, 2010 12:29 pm

LeQuit's only option, if he really wants to win a championship, is to somehow find his way to Los Angeles to be Riker to Kobe's Picard. He won't win one anywhere else as the alpha dog. He doesn't shoot well enough, he isn't tough enough, he doesn't have a high enough basketball IQ; in short, he just isn't good enough.

Personally I don't think LeQuit ever wins a ring. He'll end his career as a high-grade Vince Carter. Of course, the Vince might win it all this year, which will put him ahead of LeQuit as a player and as a teammate.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat May 15, 2010 1:00 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:LeQuit's only option, if he really wants to win a championship, is to somehow find his way to Los Angeles to be Riker to Kobe's Picard. He won't win one anywhere else as the alpha dog. He doesn't shoot well enough, he isn't tough enough, he doesn't have a high enough basketball IQ; in short, he just isn't good enough.

Personally I don't think LeQuit ever wins a ring. He'll end his career as a high-grade Vince Carter. Of course, the Vince might win it all this year, which will put him ahead of LeQuit as a player and as a teammate.


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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat May 15, 2010 1:17 pm

leadpipe wrote:Christ.


You have to get out of this Stockholm Syndrome mentality when it comes to LeBron, LP. The world will not end if he leaves. The Terminal Tower will not topple over into the street. It's okay, we can NOT win titles without him just as easily as we DIDN'T win titles with him.

Cleveland is bigger than one 25-year old, self-entitled spoiled brat who after seven years of being as big as Karl Malone is still too fucking stupid to figure out how to play in the post.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat May 15, 2010 1:28 pm

Spin wrote:
metalhead9x9 wrote:I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I'm listening to the Weds. Simmons podcast and he made a great point. He goes, he can never come back home to Akron (well, he can physically, but the enmity that would surround him would be unreal). He has to know that a sizable portion of his fanbase (even outside NE Ohio) will be alienated if he turns his back on this franchise. Whether he cares or not may be a gamechanger.


That's going to be interesting to watch. Will fans stay loyal to the Cavs? Or the player? North of the county line, it's obvious. He never claimed Cleveland to be his home town, and there's no real reason he should. And with a majority of Cleveland area fans, there's not that bond with him like there is the team.

South of the county line, I think a lot of fans are going to follow him. And the Cavs, as long as they're not playing against him.

Being FROM the hometown trumps playing FOR the home team.

When Andy Sonnenstine pitches against the Tribe, there are a lot of fans who say "Sorry Wahoo. We'll catch up with you tomorrow." Others don't.

It would ruin part of his fan base, but going to a much larger market would make up for it.

All you have to do is look at Ben Raper's hometown to know how its going to go.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat May 15, 2010 1:30 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Christ.


You have to get out of this Stockholm Syndrome mentality when it comes to LeBron, LP. The world will not end if he leaves. The Terminal Tower will not topple over into the street. It's okay, we can NOT win titles without him just as easily as we DIDN'T win titles with him.

Cleveland is bigger than one 25-year old, self-entitled spoiled brat who after seven years of being as big as Karl Malone is still too fucking stupid to figure out how to play in the post.



Personally, now that it's done and over, it'd be much more preferable to me if people bright enough to understand the concept of perspective vs. emotional responses to any game or series would let some water flow under the bridge and analyze the issue with the benefit of said perspective.

We've taken our emotional shots. The wounds are still seeping. Nothing is going to happen for months.

And I will add that questioning the guy's heart and motive in regard to his performance in the Boston series is valid. We all saw it.

Questioning his basketball IQ is, again in my opinion, ignorant. And while the city is bigger than LBJ, it's already pretty close to toppling with him here. That Terminal Tower does fall and the good news it's more than likely going to land on a dilapidated, unpopulated building.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat May 15, 2010 1:34 pm

peeker643 wrote:Personally, now that it's done and over, it'd be much more preferable to me if people bright enough to understand the concept of perspective vs. emotional responses to any game or series would let some water flow under the bridge and analyze the issue with the benefit of said perspective.

We've taken our emotional shots. The wounds are still seeping. Nothing is going to happen for months.

And I will add that questioning the guy's heart and motive in regard to his performance in the Boston series is valid. We all saw it.

Questioning his basketball IQ is, again in my opinion, ignorant. And while the city is bigger than LBJ, it's already pretty close to toppling with him here. That Terminal Tower does fall and the good news it's more than likely going to land on a dilapidated, unpopulated building.


When I turn on someone, Peek, it's permanent. There's no introspection, no perspective, no turning back.

He's dead to me as a fan. Dead. And that's if he comes back as well.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat May 15, 2010 1:51 pm

Spin wrote:
metalhead9x9 wrote:I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I'm listening to the Weds. Simmons podcast and he made a great point. He goes, he can never come back home to Akron (well, he can physically, but the enmity that would surround him would be unreal). He has to know that a sizable portion of his fanbase (even outside NE Ohio) will be alienated if he turns his back on this franchise. Whether he cares or not may be a gamechanger.


That's going to be interesting to watch. Will fans stay loyal to the Cavs? Or the player? North of the county line, it's obvious. He never claimed Cleveland to be his home town, and there's no real reason he should. And with a majority of Cleveland area fans, there's not that bond with him like there is the team.

South of the county line, I think a lot of fans are going to follow him. And the Cavs, as long as they're not playing against him.


Being FROM the hometown trumps playing FOR the home team.

When Andy Sonnenstine pitches against the Tribe, there are a lot of fans who say "Sorry Wahoo. We'll catch up with you tomorrow." Others don't.

It would ruin part of his fan base, but going to a much larger market would make up for it.


You know what? fuck that. I don't view being from Akron as big as say a difference being from Cincinnati to Cleveland. I pull for Cleveland teams, I get Cleveland television stations on my dial, If I'm on vacation, I'll say I'm from the "Cleveland area" and I'm apart of that demographic

The whole "Akron is a separate city" thing you've been pushing is bullshit, and no, I won't pull for him to do well in fucking New York, and neither will anyone I know from the Stark-Portage-Summit area, who is an actual fan of sports, the day he packs his bags for New York or Chicago, he's dead to me.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby waborat » Sat May 15, 2010 1:53 pm

peeker643 wrote:That Terminal Tower does fall and the good news it's more than likely going to land on a dilapidated, unpopulated building.


Or a covert medical mart
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Spin » Sat May 15, 2010 2:30 pm

I never said ALL. You're not the only basketball fan in Summit County.

Nobody here can accept the fact that the whole fuckin' world doesn't think exactly like them.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 15, 2010 3:07 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:LeQuit's only option, if he really wants to win a championship, is to somehow find his way to Los Angeles to be Riker to Kobe's Picard. He won't win one anywhere else as the alpha dog. He doesn't shoot well enough, he isn't tough enough, he doesn't have a high enough basketball IQ; in short, he just isn't good enough.

Personally I don't think LeQuit ever wins a ring. He'll end his career as a high-grade Vince Carter. Of course, the Vince might win it all this year, which will put him ahead of LeQuit as a player and as a teammate.

Hey I won't disagree with your criticism of his recent efforts, his heart and his mindset. But to question his IQ and even his shooting ability v Kobe? Do you realize LeBron is a better % shooter than Kobe?

Argue that Kobe drives his will home more, argue Kobe keeps defenders off balance more, argue Kobe wins the big one more due to his play...but to say LeBron doesn't shoot well enough is nothing more than emotional knee jerking backed up by data from a past of at least 2 years ago or longer.

Herm I won't begrudge you your right to bash and/or hate LeBron but you are better than what you are bringing to back it all up.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat May 15, 2010 3:31 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:When I turn on someone, Peek, it's permanent. There's no introspection, no perspective, no turning back.



All the more reason to do so based on logic and reason and based on knowing all the facts as opposed to extending a valid bitch about his performance in a series into a personal and lifelong hatred.

Or not. There's no rulebook for it and you certainly don't have to justify it to me. But if you're going to put it out there on the boards don't expect me not to laugh my balls off when a big part of your arguement is basketball IQ. That doesn't help your cause Herm.

You can take a stab at defending that part. I wouldn't because it'll just weaken what strengths of the arguement you do have (entitlement, immaturity, worrying more about 'Q' rating than dominating at 'The Q' this series) because it's so ridiculous.

When he hits your "Least Favorite Player' designation I'll know you're serious. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat May 15, 2010 3:55 pm

peeker643 wrote:But if you're going to put it out there on the boards don't expect me not to laugh my balls off when a big part of your arguement is basketball IQ. That doesn't help your cause Herm.


All I have to do is point at his post game, Peek. That's it.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 15, 2010 4:07 pm

Herm criticizing his post game isn't that strong a ground to stand on really though. Sure his post game needs work, to be more accurate he just needs to go to it more, but "use your post game" isn't an applicable cry for every situation on the court in every game or every series.

But again even the criticisms of his decisions on which part of his arsenal to use are weakened at this point of the game for all of us b/c LeBron as we knew him wasn't present. So to expect his post game to have had any different result than any other part of his game in the latter part of the series is being ignorant or obtuse.
Last edited by FUDU on Sat May 15, 2010 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat May 15, 2010 4:21 pm

Don't be so gloomy, guys. You got that new Betty White sitcom about Cleveland to look forward to.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat May 15, 2010 4:35 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
peeker643 wrote:But if you're going to put it out there on the boards don't expect me not to laugh my balls off when a big part of your arguement is basketball IQ. That doesn't help your cause Herm.


All I have to do is point at his post game, Peek. That's it.


Feh. Einstein spelled worse than JB and he never gave a shit to learn. He also helped blow up Japan.

Point where you want Herm. Wherever you point you're wrong about his basketball IQ. Incredibly, unbelievably wrong. Maybe it's wrong brought about by frustration and bitterness, and that's fine, but it's still wrong.

"LeBron understands the game, he knows the game. He sees the game developing in front of him. And as a result, he takes advantage of it."
-- Jerry Lucas


"His basketball IQ is on the level of Bird, Magic and Jordan and their basketball IQ was off the charts. He's developed a killer instinct. You see a certain fierceness, something he's developed the last few years. His IQ is one of the highest I've ever seen."
-- Bernard King


"Fantastic. He has a great, natural feel for the game, which all of the great players really and truly have. I think he has a terrific IQ for the game of basketball."
-- Rick Barry



"Phenomenal. He knows how to win and get things done. He's observant and he knows what's going on every second of the game and what is required to win."
-- Dolph Schayes


"Off the scale. He's so far ahead of the game. Even before the ball is taken out of bounds, he's already anticipating what his attack is going to be. He already knows what the defense is going to do.

"He'so young but he's seen a lot of things and he knows how to react to them plus he has great anticipation. He has a phenomenal mind for the game and that is on both ends of the court."
-- Scottie Pippen

"He has an amazing basketball IQ. You look at what he does outside of his scoring. He makes everyone around him better. He's a great passer, a very, very good rebounder. From that aspect, he's got a great basketball mind."
-- Dominique Wilkins


"He's at the top. LeBron has that gift. Like Elgin, Oscar, West, Russell, Bird, Magic, Michael. They know before a game starts that if the game plan presented on the board isn't going to work to perfection, then they'll tweak it.

"They're ability to tweak it and tweak it quickly reflects a high basketball IQ. He has that gift."
-- Julius Erving

"He's understanding who he is, what his team does, what they need to do to win. I think he's evolving into a real high-level guy. He understands what they have to do to win, the defensive rotations, the offensive sets. He's really evolving into a real high-level category for him."
-- Kevin McHale


No offense bro- I just put more stock into these guys and their opinions than I put into yours coming off his most disappointing series ever. I have more here if you want them.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat May 15, 2010 5:37 pm

peeker643 wrote:
hermanfontenot wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Christ.


You have to get out of this Stockholm Syndrome mentality when it comes to LeBron, LP. The world will not end if he leaves. The Terminal Tower will not topple over into the street. It's okay, we can NOT win titles without him just as easily as we DIDN'T win titles with him.

Cleveland is bigger than one 25-year old, self-entitled spoiled brat who after seven years of being as big as Karl Malone is still too fucking stupid to figure out how to play in the post.



Personally, now that it's done and over, it'd be much more preferable to me if people bright enough to understand the concept of perspective vs. emotional responses to any game or series would let some water flow under the bridge and analyze the issue with the benefit of said perspective.

We've taken our emotional shots. The wounds are still seeping. Nothing is going to happen for months.

And I will add that questioning the guy's heart and motive in regard to his performance in the Boston series is valid. We all saw it.

Questioning his basketball IQ is, again in my opinion, ignorant. And while the city is bigger than LBJ, it's already pretty close to toppling with him here. That Terminal Tower does fall and the good news it's more than likely going to land on a dilapidated, unpopulated building.


Stockholm Leads balls.

The Cavs were damn near dead before he arrived and they'll be damned near dead the moment he walks out the door.

He's dead to you. Fine. Hate him for quitting (which is about the worst thing a player can do)

But don't act like a guy who will have created the most wide open looks and lay-ups in NBA history has a low basketball IQ. Don't act like a two time MVP and hall of famer is going to be replaced. And don't assume for a second that the next Cav great, if there ever is one, is somehow going to come here the picture of modesty and class. It's 2010 and counting.

It's not about liking the King, or disliking the guys still left, hell, there ain't a pro athlete alive that would suprise me at this juncture with ANYTHING they did.

It's all about a rational observation. What is left minus the King are old guys that can't move, a starting back court lacking in skill and size, and a front court that has had it's entire offensive career handed to them by the guy leaving. And NOBODY that can create their own shot. Although Mo and Delonte did a fine job of creating turnovers and shots for the other team.

So, you'll have two guards under 6-3, (unless you play Parker, yikes) two forwards who will combine for 12 a game minus the chippies Lebron gave them, a 75 year old center and, of course, the huge free agent they'll bring in. Adding to the storied list of free agents the Cavs have drawn in the past.

Done. Best case is a re-build that will take - again, more years than most of the guys on this team will be playing.

It's a conumdrum, if you like Cleveland hoops, and hate the King, you can't win here.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat May 15, 2010 5:43 pm

Can we stop calling him "The King" now?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat May 15, 2010 6:41 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Can we stop calling him "The King" now?

Yes!
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby waborat » Sat May 15, 2010 6:50 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Can we stop calling him "The King" now?


How bout Caesar? ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat May 15, 2010 7:04 pm

leadpipe wrote:The Cavs were damn near dead before he arrived and they'll be damned near dead the moment he walks out the door.


So we're fucked with him and fucked without him. Awesome. Now I know what it must be like to be a Minnesota Vikings fan.

Bron isn't going to the next level without someone kicking him in the balls. If he's taking sycophants like Coach Cal around with him, what makes anyone think his next place is going to be someplace where he'll be challenged?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat May 15, 2010 8:58 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
leadpipe wrote:The Cavs were damn near dead before he arrived and they'll be damned near dead the moment he walks out the door.


So we're fucked with him and fucked without him. Awesome. Now I know what it must be like to be a Minnesota Vikings fan.

Bron isn't going to the next level without someone kicking him in the balls. If he's taking sycophants like Coach Cal around with him, what makes anyone think his next place is going to be someplace where he'll be challenged?


Who the eff said that wasn't the case? It's going to have to come from him. But let me know which modern day superstar out there didn't have that come to Jesus moment or find me the replacement for the superstar we have here that's a fucking improvement.

Baby with the bath water? Fuck that. Pout someplace else. Tell someone else his basketball IQ is horrific in an attempt to justify the shitty take. I just gave you a half dozen HoFers who said that take is full of shit.

Yeah, I hate what he did. It was pathetic. Am I pissed at it? Hell yes. May never forgive it. But am I stone cold effing crazy to want to toss away the best player I've ever seen because of a bad week. No, I'm not. Not after a few days to look at it and a few weeks to see what else falls out.

So figure out if it was him or the situation and fix it.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat May 15, 2010 9:11 pm

waborat wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Can we stop calling him "The King" now?


How bout Caesar? ;-) ;) :wink:


Would that make the Celtics Marcus Junius Brutus?
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm

I'm assuming cat is gone with all my takes, but as we get closer to July that could all change. That Chicago situation looks pretty good though...
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat May 15, 2010 10:34 pm

peeker643 wrote:Who the eff said that wasn't the case? It's going to have to come from him. But let me know which modern day superstar out there didn't have that come to Jesus moment or find me the replacement for the superstar we have here that's a fucking improvement.


MJ got cut from the JV squad.
Kobe had to fight his way from under Shaq's shadow.

Bron? Unless he 'n D-Wade team up I ain't seein' it. Just look at how the org catered to his every whim. And now that the world's his oyster, do you think he's going to go someplace to challenge himself? Fuck that. He'll go to New York, drag some chump like Bosh with him, and think the trophies will just show up at his doorstep. Or he'll go to Chicago, force Coach Cal on the bench, and we'll spend the next three years wondering whatever happened to Derrick Rose.

Bron needs a wake-up call to make it to the next level. Its obvious he didn't catch it this series, and he won't as long as the President of the United States himself is publically asking him to come to Chicago.

The only way I see it is if he's guilted back here and Gilbert 'n Ferry land Larry Brown or some red-ass to take Roker's seat. It ain't impossible, but I'm in the land of doubts here.

Baby with the bath water? Fuck that. Pout someplace else. Tell someone else his basketball IQ is horrific in an attempt to justify the shitty take. I just gave you a half dozen HoFers who said that take is full of shit.


Don't look at me, that's Herm's take.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat May 15, 2010 11:53 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
MJ got cut from the JV squad.
Kobe had to fight his way from under Shaq's shadow.

Bron? Unless he 'n D-Wade team up I ain't seein' it. Just look at how the org catered to his every whim. And now that the world's his oyster, do you think he's going to go someplace to challenge himself? Fuck that. He'll go to New York, drag some chump like Bosh with him, and think the trophies will just show up at his doorstep. Or he'll go to Chicago, force Coach Cal on the bench, and we'll spend the next three years wondering whatever happened to Derrick Rose.

Bron needs a wake-up call to make it to the next level. Its obvious he didn't catch it this series, and he won't as long as the President of the United States himself is publically asking him to come to Chicago.

The only way I see it is if he's guilted back here and Gilbert 'n Ferry land Larry Brown or some red-ass to take Roker's seat. It ain't impossible, but I'm in the land of doubts here.



I'm not optimistic it will happen. I'm saying you owe it to all involved to make every effort. A lot of it is on LBJ. If he ain't willing or able then there are issues.

But you have to explore every single avenue when you're talking about a once in a generation talent.

Every single option.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 am

I don't think I've ever been in such agreement with Peeker, matter of fact I know it.

LeBron didn't show up, for whatever the reason, he deserves the criticism he gets. However it doesn't mean he still isn't arguably the one single player you want to try to get a ring with. Even if right now you are pissed off at how things ended for the Cavs or if you hate LeBron or not, which I kind of do, but I still want him back. To not would be like recognizing money cannot buy one happiness and still turning down the most amount of money you have ever seen.

The sample size of his not showing up is too small to not at least think that it is not what ultimately defines him on the court, and that there are not some other circumstances at play here. Circumstances that may or may not be able to be worked out.

As Peek said, you have to explore every option, not just that but also be ready to move forward without him.
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Re: I give. He's gone.

Unread postby Doc » Sun May 16, 2010 2:28 am

You can't not want the guy back. I mean, he's the best shot we got. I'm as pissed about what happened in the last few games as anyone, and like many above, it'd be very hard to forget him for all of that. Dogging it in a game, a playoff game, is unacceptable. But, as much as I hate what happened, he's our best shot.

That being said...F the whole circus that's about to happen. I dislike Woj, but that piece from Friday was big for me. I want no part of some Coach Cal power-trip that LeBron could force. The whole idea of getting rid of Brown is to bring in someone who's got a clue how to coach. We've seen 7 years of LBJ getting just about whatever he wanted around here. Within reason, of course, because there's only so much TBO could do. And obviously adding payroll isn't an issue. I guess I'm in the fucked with him, fucked without him camp. Obviously, the team doesn't get better losing him, even in a best-case sign-and-trade scenario (and the likelihood of an S&T isn't all that high to begin with). But, after what I saw this week, I can't honestly say that I have that same belief I used to have, that he could get us to the ring. If he quit (and I'm hoping he didn't, but I saw what everyone else did), can you commit to a deal on his terms and know that kind of attitude won't show up again? Do you fellate the guy all summer and give him everything he could want just so he can bring in a coach he's already tight with?

I mean, this is a legit discussion. I don't know how true the Calipari rumors are, but if they are, is it worth it to keep him? Do the Cavs play hardball with him and say No to Calipari? Do they have that kind of leverage? That's what I'm most afraid of. Cleveland's only draw in keeping him (besides a higher max deal if he wants max years) is Gilbert's bankroll and willingness to do whatever LBJ wants. That scares the piss out of me. And I think that this decision is where everything hinges. The ONLY way Cleveland keeps him now, in my humblest of opinions, is to give LBJ free reign on bringing in his guy as coach. And that's a scary proposition right now.

There's a huge part of me that wants to see him in Chicago or in NY with Wade/Bosh. I want to see him with another star, and I want to see how he does. Frankly, I'm not sure what happens. He's not going to get that here unless we get really creative. I don't know, trying to stay out of the emotional aspect of a response. But how can't you get emotional on this? We watched our 1 shot at a title in this city dog it this series. That hurts. And in seeing 7 years of LeBron here, I know we're never going to get a straight answer about what happened. So, am I supposed to assume that a new coach is just going to make everything better for him? What happens when Calipari doesn't get us a title? Bron gonna throw him under the bus, too? Or what if we bring in Phillip or Larry Brown? Does LeBron run and hide if a coach finally grows a pair and doesn't deal with LBJ's shit? I think these are all very legit questions. Amazing how 2 games can change your perspective on a guy so much. But they have. The whole city feels it. It's like a fucking soap opera already. Just wait until July.
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