Conference Expansion/Reshaping

[aoxo1]

Mizzou, Nebraska, ND, Rutgers

Will extend a 5th if all 4 accept.

No link, sorry.



**Editted the title to more accurately reflect the content of this thread.

-Furls

[swerb]

Wow

[aoxo1]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100510/S ... r-colleges

Guess it's not official; I had just caught it scrolling on espn.

[Ziner]

As a ND fan it is time they commit to a conference. The Big 10 makes too much sense for them.

[JCoz]

Really upset that they went with Rutgers and Nebraska over UT and T A&M.

Also having a hard time believing the report

[aoxo1]

Yeah, I wouldn't have started a new thread except I saw the scroll on espn and missed the source.

[JoJo White]

It would be a coup for the Big 10. Adding two Big 12 schools instantly upgrades the conference's football profile.

[Bayou Tribe]

The concept of Notre Dame and Nebraska joining the Big 10 is pretty awesome. The history, stadiums, fan-bases, etc. That would be a friggin home run for you guys.

[JoJo White]

Report is not true. At least not completely.

http://my.journalstar.com/post/Husker_E ... ntrue.html

A radio station in Kansas City reported Monday that the Big Ten has extended offers to four schools to join the league -- including Nebraska.

Here's the link...

Asked via e-mail whether the report has any validity as it applies to Nebraska, UNL chancellor Harvey Perlman replied, "None whatsoever."

Expect there to be many more of these reports until the Big Ten announces something officially.

[e0y2e3]

It would be a coup for the Big 10. Adding two Big 12 schools instantly upgrades the conference's football profile.

JB taught you well

[hermanfontenot]

Rutgers? Seriously?

[e0y2e3]

Rutgers? Seriously?

It's for the TV market.... BAHAHAHAHA.....

little do people realize that only trashy dirty jersey fucks go to Rutgers and that no one in NYC could give two shits about the giant STD that said university is.

[hermanfontenot]

little do people realize that only trashy dirty jersey fucks go to Rutgers and that no one in NYC could give two shits about the giant STD that said university is.

Well, you and I realize it at least. I was in NYC three years ago or so and take this for what it's worth, but I must have looked in every sporting goods store in Midtown Manhattan and didn't find one piece of Rutgers apparel. Not one. And I was looking. I like their colors and I have a huge man-crush on Greg Schiano so I was looking for a t-shirt.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I don't want any of those fuckin teams in the Big 10.

[aoxo1]

Eh, I wouldn't mind the ND fuckin team in the Big Ten. Otherwise I'm inclined to agree with you.

[hermanfontenot]

Notre Dame belongs in the Big East, not the Big Ten.

So does Penn State.

[Ziner]

Notre Dame belongs in the Big East, not the Big Ten.

So does Penn State.

Bullshit, At worst Penn State, I'd argue both, belong in the Big Ten. If PSU wasnt in the B10 with the current BCS enviroment the B10 would be even more of a laughing stock. OSU, UM, PSU are the three consistent and respected teams year in and year out. (you could argue for Wisco lately as well) but with UM down right the B10 needs PSU whether you would admit it or not. ND would add even more. Things progress herm

[e0y2e3]

Fuck Notre Dame. There is no place for the kiddie diddler's school of choice in the Big Ten.

[jb]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100510/SPORTS08/100510055/1055/SPORTS07/Report-Big-Ten-has-made-offers-to-four-colleges

Guess it's not official; I had just caught it scrolling on espn.

Maybe that's why there's no big board reaction yet??

[jb]

Notre Dame belongs in the Big East, not the Big Ten.

Nonsense, but I'll be interested in your thinking behind this gem.

Long, rich history of competing against conference schools? Check.

Geographical & media match ? Check.

Not the first private college in the conference? Check.

Any conference that trots out IU football has no cedibility scoffing at any D1 program BTW.

Time for eveyon to stop holding grudges from almost 100 years ago.

[Cease]

Keep in mind, this move is 99.9% driven to add subscribers to the Big Ten Network. That other .01% is what they talk about in the press- academic standards, alumni strength, on-field competition.

I'm, too, am in line with the Rutgers-bashers. That school's no prize to have in your conference. They are the lucky ducks positioned in the tri-state area. Adding Rutgers and Missouri without ND or Nebraska would be a blow the the B10's rep. But, the B10 will take the cash either way.

[jb]

Keep in mind, this move is 99.9% driven to add subscribers to the Big Ten Network. That other .01% is what they talk about in the press- academic standards, alumni strength, on-field competition.

I'm, too, am in line with the Rutgers-bashers. That school's no prize to have in your conference. They are the lucky ducks positioned in the tri-state area. Adding Rutgers and Missouri without ND or Nebraska would be a blow the the B10's rep. But, the B10 will take the cash either way.

Great point.

I do wonder how much of the NY / NJ market Rutgers really captures and how much tradition of being into athletics the university has. IOW, in the ultimate pro sports' market that likes to fancy itself as a college basketball mecca ( chortle ) based on the chuck taylor era, does anyonegive a shit about Rutgets football? Until the past 4 years I doubt they any better than New jersey's Bowling Green (and I might be dissing BGSU here ) , for example. I bet the Big 10 tries to hang its hat on the whole 1st game thing.


http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/data ... tabase.htm

( I do understand that a one share in that market is like a 20 share in Iowa though ).

[aoxo1]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100510/SPORTS08/100510055/1055/SPORTS07/Report-Big-Ten-has-made-offers-to-four-colleges

Guess it's not official; I had just caught it scrolling on espn.

Maybe that's why there's no big board reaction yet??

Ass.

[jb]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100510/SPORTS08/100510055/1055/SPORTS07/Report-Big-Ten-has-made-offers-to-four-colleges

Guess it's not official; I had just caught it scrolling on espn.

Maybe that's why there's no big board reaction yet??

Ass.

[krazylegz]

if anybody,i hope notre dame gets the bid....but something tells me rutgers

[gnati]

I do wonder how much of the NY / NJ market Rutgers really captures and how much tradition of being into athletics the university has. IOW, in the ultimate pro sports' market that likes to fancy itself as a college basketball mecca ( chortle ) based on the chuck taylor era, does anyonegive a shit about Rutgets football? Until the past 4 years I doubt they any better than New jersey's Bowling Green (and I might be dissing BGSU here ) , for example. I bet the Big 10 tries to hang its hat on the whole 1st game thing.

I'm not a doctor, but I will play one on the internet tubes...

While not familiar with Rutgers/NY relationship specifically, my gut tells me it is pretty much the same relationship that Boston has with Boston College which I am very familiar.

Big East Coast city that is 1000% pro sports oriented, a small but passionate base of people who think waaaaaaaay too highly of the school in all things (athletic and academic) because of their affiliation with the school...but at the end of the day, you couldn't find a BC football or hoops game on TV with a map, you can find plenty of ducats for anything not called The Beanpot and you couldn't find more than a circle jerk who gives a damn about them unless they are playing for a national championship...which ain't happening...and even then, they would be below the fold news if one of the pro sports teams is doing...well, anything.

In other words, the Big Ten Network could pimp out the fact they have gaine a shit load of new TV sets...but you can count on one hand the number of people who are watching because of Rutgers. The likely increase is in traditional Big Ten alums who live in the area... (which might be what they are going after instead of people who are interested in Rutgers?)

[e0y2e3]

Yeah but BC is at least a real school.

A Rutgers diploma is the academic equivalent of herpes.

[danwismar]

In other words, the Big Ten Network could pimp out the fact they have gained a shit load of new TV sets...but you can count on one hand the number of people who are watching because of Rutgers. The likely increase is in traditional Big Ten alums who live in the area... (which might be what they are going after instead of people who are interested in Rutgers?)

The BTN revenues (and thus the BT schools' take) are dictated not by TV's tuned in to games, but by the size of the market...(I think $.70 per cable subscriber is their deal with Time-Warner, for example). I imagine it's of little concern to the conference how many New Yorkers are watching their Iowa-Minnesota telecast. Their purse is fattened considerably just by having the NY market in their portfolio. Actual ratings are gravy.

[e0y2e3]

In other words, the Big Ten Network could pimp out the fact they have gained a shit load of new TV sets...but you can count on one hand the number of people who are watching because of Rutgers. The likely increase is in traditional Big Ten alums who live in the area... (which might be what they are going after instead of people who are interested in Rutgers?)

The BTN revenues (and thus the BT schools' take) are dictated not by TV's tuned in to games, but by the size of the market...(I think $.70 per cable subscriber is their deal with Time-Warner, for example). I imagine it's of little concern to the conference how many New Yorkers are watching their Iowa-Minnesota telecast. Their purse is fattened considerably just by having the NY market in their portfolio. Actual ratings are gravy.

Thank you.

That makes much more sense.

[e0y2e3]

Gawd I hate Rutgers:

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com ... rsey-power

[aoxo1]

In other words, the Big Ten Network could pimp out the fact they have gained a shit load of new TV sets...but you can count on one hand the number of people who are watching because of Rutgers. The likely increase is in traditional Big Ten alums who live in the area... (which might be what they are going after instead of people who are interested in Rutgers?)

The BTN revenues (and thus the BT schools' take) are dictated not by TV's tuned in to games, but by the size of the market...(I think $.70 per cable subscriber is their deal with Time-Warner, for example). I imagine it's of little concern to the conference how many New Yorkers are watching their Iowa-Minnesota telecast. Their purse is fattened considerably just by having the NY market in their portfolio. Actual ratings are gravy.

Right, but is TW going to pay the $0.70 they charge in Big Ten states to air it in NYC, or will they pay the lower amount (I think it's like $0.10 or something?) they charge in non-Big Ten states? They might just refuse to pay the same rate providers in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, etc are willing to pay.

As noted above, I would think the increase in interest in the NYC market will be miniscule. There are already tons of alums from current Big Ten schools; what's Rutgers going to add, 10%?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Just say no to expansion.

[jack_tors]

The Minnesota AD says he doesnt think expansion is likely.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100511/SPORTS08/100511067/1055/SPORTS07/Minnesota-AD-doesnt-buy-Big-Ten-report

Also, heard this morning on 1100 that Notre Dame has advised in the past that they would turn down offers to join the Big 10. Not sure the validity or if ND is using it as a negotiating tactic but figured I would pass it along.

Heard something about possibly having a 16 team league with 4 divisions? That would be absurd if it were true.

[JCoz]

I think expansion is imminent.

ND's past advisements were from before Indiana could logically laugh at ND's NBC contract.

Seriously, ND is losing money by the truckload by not being in the Big Ten. When speaking ONLY of football programs, everything changed with the B10 Network. Its a conversation that starts from scratch this time. Old positions will be completly revised to reflect the current monetary landscape.

[Hikohadon]

I doubt that the Big 10 expands to any non-AAU schools (for Federal Grant reasons), which leaves Notre Dame out. ND would probably be the ONLY non-AAU school they'd consider, but ND's resistance to joining might cause the Big 10 to just say "Well, fuck you then."

Rutgers just brings the NYC market into the BTN fold. No one in NYC gives a shit about Rutgers... right now. If Rutgers is part of the Big 16, which ends up being one of 4 Superconferences (PAC 16, SEC, what's left of the ACC & Big East), which then create their own playoff system... then Rutgers could actually develop (in time) a following as a team that could legitimately vie for a NC.

All they have to do is win the Big 16 and 2 playoff games. Rankings and popularity contests won't have shit to do with it.

Syracuse might do the same thing.

Mizzou is a guarantee. I think Rutgers and Syracuse are too. Then probably Pitt and Nebraska (although I've heard Maryland too, which is a decent option). All of these are AAU schools.

BC has been mentioned, but they're not AAU either. Neither is UConn.

I've read that keeping the Big 10 all-AAU is big for the existing Big 10 Presidents because of prestige and billions in Federal grants (why they wouldn't get these if they allowed a non-AAU school into the Big 10 is unclear to me at this juncture).

There are only 61 AAU schools in the whole country, and every existing Big 10 team is one of them. Most of the proposed teams are too. Per WIKI -

As of 2004, AAU members accounted for 58%[1] of U.S. universities' research grants and contract income and 52% of all doctorates awarded in the United States. Since 1999, 43% of all Nobel Prize winners and 74% of winners at U.S. institutions have been affiliated with an AAU university.

[1] ^ Over $15.9 billion: NIH: $9.1 billion, 60% of total academic research funding. Research Funding: National Science Foundation: $2.0 billion, 63% of total academic research funding Department of Defense: $1.2 billion, 56% of total academic research funding Department of Energy: $505.2 million, 63% of total academic research funding NASA: $673.2 million, 57% of total academic research funding Department of Agriculture: $271.9 million, 41% of total academic research funding.

The ironic (and, to me, amusing) thing is that should the big conferences form 4 Superconferences and consolidate their power by forming their own Athletic Association, Notre Dame's insistance on remaining "Independent" would leave them wallowing around in what is essentially Div. II.

They might realize this, which is why the ND President said at the end of last year something to the effect of "They might do something to force our hand."

[furls]

Not surprisingly, the Big Ten is denying this report. I am not sure if it is real or not, but I wasn't surprised when I heard it. I am reasonably sure that ND will not come to the B10 and I am actually a bit disappointed with the other choices. Rutgers adds nothing other than a market that is largely uninterested in college sports. Nebraska, the pick of the litter, is a "possibly emerging, used to be." Missouri is an "almost, sort-of was."

There is the potential that Rutgers could be more interesting in the NY market if they were bringing OSU, PSU, and scUM (after DickRod), but who knows. Frankly, I think Rutgers would be a perpetual 4-8, 5-7 team in the B10 (primarily feasting on 4 softie non-cons).

Bo Pelini has done pretty well at Nebraska, but is that his final destination and keep it going? Who knows.

I know that academics are a big deal to the Presidents and Chancellors and none of these schools really make the grade. Nebraska is barely in the top 100 and Rutgers and Mizzou are not ranked. So, these choices really are strange. I would say that Syracuse, Pitt, and UConn more closely fit the mold academically; although none of them really put more butts in B10 Network seats.

My opinion is that expansion (beyond one team) really only makes sense if it adds some serious juice to the conference on the field and off. Think ND, Texas, Texas A&M, and the like.

[JCoz]

Bo Pelini has done pretty well at Nebraska, but is that his final destination and keep it going? Who knows.

I had read rumors that Bo would have taken a demotion to get out of Nebraska, as he has found out just how difficult it is to recruit there.

No chance its his last stop, IMO.

I agree on the big fish approach.

[RIBrownsFan]

Agree that the Rutgers play is just a lame ass attempt to get into the NYC market, but it certainly has a better reputation as a research university than you guys are giving it credit for.

[Loo]

Ok if ND leaves their TV contract every single person who contributed to that decision should be fired. That'd be one of the worst possible business moves in sport. No way do they walk out of that contract.

If the Big Ten had their choice, they'd choose Rutgers seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. They want the NY market, there's no doubt who they want the most.

[JCoz]

Ok if ND leaves their TV contract every single person who contributed to that decision should be fired. That'd be one of the worst possible business moves in sport. No way do they walk out of that contract.

If the Big Ten had their choice, they'd choose Rutgers seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. They want the NY market, there's no doubt who they want the most.

Jesus, really? I don't how many times this has already been posted, in this very thread (possibly I can't remember here of the other expansion thread), but do you understand the numbers?

Do you understand that Indiana and Northwestern make substantially more than ND and thier TV contract?

I mean the financial tables have indesputably FLIPPED from the last ND-to-B10 talks they had.

Its very simple at this juncture - ND in the B10 makes MORE money than ND the independant.

Period. The End.

So if you want to make a case for the B10 not being a good fit for ND, fine, but it wont have much to do with the idea that giving up thier TV contract is a bad idea. Not if it's going to make a lick of sense.

EDITED TO REMOVE UNNESSESSARY ROUGHNESS. some, not all.

[aoxo1]

Maybe the Big Ten can sign and trade for Notre Dame!!!!!

[Triple-S]

Weird rumor going around is this.

Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Texas are being recruited very hard, and Texas/ND is being offered especially a deal where they'd only have to play 7 games, while the rest have to play 8.

[Loo]

Ok if ND leaves their TV contract every single person who contributed to that decision should be fired. That'd be one of the worst possible business moves in sport. No way do they walk out of that contract.

If the Big Ten had their choice, they'd choose Rutgers seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. They want the NY market, there's no doubt who they want the most.

Jesus, really? I don't how many times this has already been posted, in this very thread (possibly I can't remember here of the other expansion thread), but do you understand the numbers?

Do you understand that Indiana and Northwestern make substantially more than ND and thier TV contract?

I mean the financial tables have indesputably FLIPPED from the last ND-to-B10 talks they had.

Its very simple at this juncture - ND in the B10 makes MORE money than ND the independant.

Period. The End.

So if you want to make a case for the B10 not being a good fit for ND, fine, but it wont have much to do with the idea that giving up thier TV contract is a bad idea. Not if it's going to make a lick of sense.

EDITED TO REMOVE UNNESSESSARY ROUGHNESS. some, not all.

Let's show a little composure next time, shall we?

Prestige plays a role in how they value that TV contract, my friend. They're just not going to give that up. If you think they are--fine, that's your prerogative. I'll eat crow when ND joins the Big Ten. Unless the four super-conference theory comes to fruition and ND's athletic persuasions of joining the Big Ten grow, it's not going to happen.

As for Nebraska joining the Big Ten, I just can't wrap my head around that. I lived in Lincoln (2 minutes from Tom Osborne) and truly witnessed how fanatical everyone is about that team. When I think Big 12 football, I think of Nebraska, Texas and that one trick-play ran 10 years ago in the NEB-OK game (Eric Crouch catches a reverse pass that damn near shook the state). If one or both joined the Big Ten it'd be a culture shock of sorts. Nebraska is a school that would benefit the Big Ten in big ways (on the field, I'm not sure about NEB academically). Doesn't even matter who coaches there--eventually, the lure of playing for NEB will steer them back on track to a national powerhouse. It's a very similar lure that OSU and UM share in this part of the country.

[JCoz]

Prestige plays a role in how they value that TV contract, my friend. They're just not going to give that up. If you think they are--fine, that's your prerogative. I'll eat crow when ND joins the Big Ten. Unless the four super-conference theory comes to fruition and ND's athletic persuasions of joining the Big Ten grow, it's not going to happen.

You must mean ignorance plays a role, because what you are SAYING, effectively, is that even though the independant contract makes them Indiana's red headed step-child in REAL numbers, the "prestiege" of having an independant contract means something as an idea.

That having an independant contract for 12 mil is better than a shared one at 22 mil?

My perrogative is that ND isn't that freakin stupid. Back when they discussed it last, that contract was the envy of college football.

Now thier compensation falls well below the cream of the crop.

So all I am saying is that there may be lots of reasons for ND to not want into the B10, but that contract simply isn't one of them. It just isn't.

[furls]

I am not going to say that ND is smart to not take the B10 offer, but ND is making 12M per year off of a contract that was signed after a bad season. ND signed their current contract (5 year deal) in 2008 after a 3-9 season in which they drew 1.9 rating on a 5 share, their worst draw ever. I think the ND's brass realizes that if they can right the ship they will be worth more and they will not have to share it. Additionally, ND does not have to share bowl revenue, so if they make a 17M BCS bowl, well, they keep it all. Put them in the B10, and the bowl share goes down. Last year the B10 made ~45M in bowl revenue that was split evenly, 11 ways; generating ~4M per team. So Indiana made 26M last year, if ND makes a BCS game, well they make 29M.

I think the brass at ND is smart enough to realize that they can make more cash as an independent if they can turn this around. I would expect that a couple of years of winning will drive that 12M per year TV contract with NBC up as well. So really the ball is in Kelly's hand. Now I will say that if Kelly proves to be a bust (I doubt it) and the Irish lose 3 more years of relevance, then they will be forced to join a conference because there will truly be nothing left of the ND name.

[aoxo1]

Notre Dame has to make a BCS bowl in order to earn 11% more than Indiana.

Fucking awesome.

[furls]

Notre Dame just has to lose 2 or less games and they are guaranteed a BCS slot and 11% of 30M is a lot of money.

[aoxo1]

Two losses or fewer 18 times in the last 40 years (that's entering bowl season). What's the payout on a non-BCS bowl? Quick search showed a max of 4.25 for the Cap One with 14/27 at less than 1m (2006 numbers, but point stands). So almost negligible. Expected payout is ~21m I would guess, based on four decades of results.

Anyways, point was mostly to laugh about ND having to have a great season to make more than Indiana. And otherwise they get much, much less. Yeah, 11% of 26m is a lot. But not that much when you consider they have to make that BCS game 70% of the time assuming a 2m payout otherwise just to break even with Indiana.

Of course, it all changes if you think their tv contract goes up 30% or something in a few years.

[Loo]

Prestige plays a role in how they value that TV contract, my friend. They're just not going to give that up. If you think they are--fine, that's your prerogative. I'll eat crow when ND joins the Big Ten. Unless the four super-conference theory comes to fruition and ND's athletic persuasions of joining the Big Ten grow, it's not going to happen.

You must mean ignorance plays a role, because what you are SAYING, effectively, is that even though the independant contract makes them Indiana's red headed step-child in REAL numbers, the "prestiege" of having an independant contract means something as an idea.

That having an independant contract for 12 mil is better than a shared one at 22 mil?

My perrogative is that ND isn't that freakin stupid. Back when they discussed it last, that contract was the envy of college football.

Now thier compensation falls well below the cream of the crop.

So all I am saying is that there may be lots of reasons for ND to not want into the B10, but that contract simply isn't one of them. It just isn't.

Wait a minute--you call me ignorant, then think I said ND wants prestige just for the simple idea of having it? Sheesh.

Prestige=recruiting. School history, tradition, campus size, stadium, coach and then unique features--that's ND unique feature, and it adds to the aura that is the ND football program. Every game is nationally televised--you don't think that rings in the ears of 17 and 18 year old kids?

And where are you getting your numbers? Haven't seen you link to anything.

[JCoz]

I am not going to say that ND is smart to not take the B10 offer, but ND is making 12M per year off of a contract that was signed after a bad season. ND signed their current contract (5 year deal) in 2008 after a 3-9 season in which they drew 1.9 rating on a 5 share, their worst draw ever. I think the ND's brass realizes that if they can right the ship they will be worth more and they will not have to share it. Additionally, ND does not have to share bowl revenue, so if they make a 17M BCS bowl, well, they keep it all. Put them in the B10, and the bowl share goes down. Last year the B10 made ~45M in bowl revenue that was split evenly, 11 ways; generating ~4M per team. So Indiana made 26M last year, if ND makes a BCS game, well they make 29M.

I think the brass at ND is smart enough to realize that they can make more cash as an independent if they can turn this around. I would expect that a couple of years of winning will drive that 12M per year TV contract with NBC up as well. So really the ball is in Kelly's hand. Now I will say that if Kelly proves to be a bust (I doubt it) and the Irish lose 3 more years of relevance, then they will be forced to join a conference because there will truly be nothing left of the ND name.

That is incorrect Furls. ND does NOT get a full share as an independant:

"According to collegebcs.com, the Irish won't receive a full share when it qualifies for a BCS game. Instead, Notre Dame will get get the equivalent to what a second team from a conference would get, which is currently $4.5 million. Then, in years in which the Irish do not play in a BCS game, they will receive $1 million from the BCS, about the share a non-participant from a BCS conference would receive once its conference divides it up. "

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/7659924/

So realistically there is no year in which ND could top Indiana's dollars.

That 4.5 is a fairly regular year for the B10 in bowls, and ND would have to make it to the BCS every year just to match bowl shares.

They would make up no difference in the 22 vs 12.