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Cavs/Celts Game 3

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Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby osucrazy18 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:48 pm

K, im back. and there is no WAY we lose this game. They cant shoot that well again. just no way its possible
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon May 03, 2010 10:52 pm

osucrazy18 wrote:K, im back. and there is no WAY we lose this game. They cant shoot that well again. just no way its possible


am I reading a thread from lasts years ECF? ::doh::
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon May 03, 2010 11:01 pm

Its not "them shooting well" exactly, as much as:

1. Lebron making an impression before the fourth quarter.
2. AV not being a corpse.
3. Shaq not being a corpse.
4. Tawn not getting destroyed by KG.
5. Someone, anyone, anywhere getting in front of Rondo: 19 assists? really?
5. Mo williams remembering how to shoot.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue May 04, 2010 7:19 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:Its not "them shooting well" exactly, as much as:

1. Lebron making an impression before the fourth quarter.
2. AV not being a corpse.
3. Shaq not being a corpse.
4. Tawn not getting destroyed by KG.
5. Someone, anyone, anywhere getting in front of Rondo: 19 assists? really?
5. Mo williams remembering how to shoot.



It starts with the first quarter

the tactic of trying to establish Shaq in the game early is wrong so so wrong and puts us in the whole from the get go.
I think Hickson and even Moon need more minutes this series

JJ has proved he's a thorn for Boston with his athleticism and quickness and he draws fouls.

I think getting AJ and even Mo involved more in the 1st Quarter would work better for us, get Mo Will find his stroke.
He's our best perimeter shooter and when he's knocking them down he stretches the defense who have to pay more attention to him.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue May 04, 2010 9:30 am

I agree, the tactic of starting every game by dumping it in to Shaq and letting him throw up bricks is not working. I think the idea is to try and get the Celtic bigs in early foul trouble, but they don't need to double Shaq or foul him to make him miss the shot, and that's becoming pretty obvious. He's 8-for-22 this series, and some of those made baskets came on dunks off guard penetration. I don't know what his numbers are when creating his own shot, but they're obviously worse.

Cavs were 4-for-21 from the 3-point line. Mo, West, and Parker were 4-for-20 from the field. They can't win with guard play as bad as this, and they can't win by expecting Shaq to score from the block.

Time to go small and get more movement back into the offense. I like LeBron on the pick-and-roll with AV, JJ, or Jamison. Mo needs to penetrate more if his outside shot isn't falling, like he did in Game 1.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby JCoz » Tue May 04, 2010 10:36 am

The high pick on roll play to a big should be shelved for the series, and maybe even the entire playoffs.

It was getting beat by Chicago, and Now beantown is absolutely destroying that play. It work a LITTLE better with JJ, but it wont in game three. boston is easily getting in front of that play for a steal or charge nearly every single time we run it.

Enough already, that play has been beaten to death so far in the playoffs, and there is no way you could convince me its been productive.

Maybe 10 points produced vs 10-15 turnovers.

I just couldn't stand the attitude last night. everyone on the team with the exception of JJ looked like a beaten dog. Not after the third, the whole game.

I just want to wash that game off and start fresh in beantown.

The Celts are playing some fantastic defense but the Cavs aren't doing themselves any favors by standing around and watching the guy with the ball.

Its like the Lebron 1 on 5 offense, only now it isn't limited to Bron, its whoever has the ball. Two games and it doesn't look like they have figured anything out yet for Bostons D.

Sad thing is its hard not to throw Brown under the bus here. If Bron is hurt we have an awful lot of scoring options on this team and yet yesterday felt like 07 again.

Just want to get to the next game. I am actually grateful for the ridiculous rest period between game 3 here, though, ice the elbow, and for god sakes Mike, make some fucking adjustments.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Tue May 04, 2010 10:59 am

I'm actually glad they weren't able to pull the comeback off again last night. They have to know this is the playoffs, they can't cruise through the first 3 quarters and flip the switch in the fourth. They did it all of round one, minus one game, and in both of these games so far.

I completely agree with going with JJ and play small, everytime we did this to them this year we ran them out the gym. Why play an older team slow and in the half court where they're comfortable. Hit the gas and get up and down, its crazy. I had one fear going into the playoffs and it was Mike Brown, I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue May 04, 2010 12:21 pm

Brown called an unexpected practice today.

Thank geezes.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby krazylegz » Tue May 04, 2010 12:28 pm

well,the good thing is the Celtics are actually a worse home team than away team for some odd reason...bad news...i think we forgot how to play defense...to say this is a must win game is putting it lightly
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby tired » Tue May 04, 2010 1:06 pm

And then there's Parker :dead:
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue May 04, 2010 1:55 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Brown called an unexpected practice today.

Thank geezes.

But Brown wants his players to watch tape and discuss adjustments in the best-of-seven series


Maybe SOMEONE will point out to him what needs to be done.

if you scumbags know what to do
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue May 04, 2010 4:29 pm

krazylegz wrote:well,the good thing is the Celtics are actually a worse home team than away team for some odd reason...bad news...i think we forgot how to play defense...to say this is a must win game is putting it lightly


This isn't a must win game. Game 5 is a must win game, as it stands. Would be nice to win one of the next two and wrest back HCA.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 04, 2010 5:53 pm

It is rather likely we will be returning home tied up at 2-2. Boston playing us on their home floor is different than Boston playing anybody else on their home floor, Boston gets up for us. Game 3 isn't technically a must win, but in this spot but with our inconsistent mental strength and focus against good teams in the playoffs it certainly feels like one.

What bothers me the most about this series right now is LeBron. He is the team leader, talent wise, in his contributions on the floor that lead to wins and stats, and as the emotional and mental driving force. These guys don't only depend on him to make plays but they depend on him for the team temperature and energy level. If LeBron is tentative and lethargic then so is the team. It doesn't all fall on LBJ, as Mike Brown is responsible for this as well, you know what they say, a team takes on the mentality/personality of the coach.

I don't care what anyone says, LeBron is a bit lethargic so far in the early going of each game. His elbow isn't the problem, it is his head for some strange reason. I'm not suggesting he is playing bad, he is just not playing all that smart or with authority. Some very poor/forced passed, and allowing Ray Allen to blanket him and control him on the wing in game 2, ::doh:: He is letting the game and other circumstances dictate what he is doing. His elbow is supposedly hurting or injured, but his legs aren't, so get to the damn hole, and stop giving up on that for 10-15 minutes at a time LeBron.

LeBron has a rep for taking games over in the 4th, willing his team to victory, well you now LeBron you don't have to wait to do that, you are allowed to dominate the early stages of a game. He needs to come out and set the tone, force Boston to fully commit to him and/or make Boston have to adjust their game plan early.

If LeBron continues to be unsure of himself, his game and what to do then the team will follow and will be watching the ECF from the confines of their own homes.

Game 2 better be a wake up call.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue May 04, 2010 7:31 pm

Someone tell Shaq all he needs is to get some air under that ball...
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue May 04, 2010 7:57 pm

FUDU wrote:It is rather likely we will be returning home tied up at 2-2. Boston playing us on their home floor is different than Boston playing anybody else on their home floor, Boston gets up for us. Game 3 isn't technically a must win, but in this spot but with our inconsistent mental strength and focus against good teams in the playoffs it certainly feels like one.

What bothers me the most about this series right now is LeBron. He is the team leader, talent wise, in his contributions on the floor that lead to wins and stats, and as the emotional and mental driving force. These guys don't only depend on him to make plays but they depend on him for the team temperature and energy level. If LeBron is tentative and lethargic then so is the team. It doesn't all fall on LBJ, as Mike Brown is responsible for this as well, you know what they say, a team takes on the mentality/personality of the coach.

I don't care what anyone says, LeBron is a bit lethargic so far in the early going of each game. His elbow isn't the problem, it is his head for some strange reason. I'm not suggesting he is playing bad, he is just not playing all that smart or with authority. Some very poor/forced passed, and allowing Ray Allen to blanket him and control him on the wing in game 2, ::doh:: He is letting the game and other circumstances dictate what he is doing. His elbow is supposedly hurting or injured, but his legs aren't, so get to the damn hole, and stop giving up on that for 10-15 minutes at a time LeBron.

LeBron has a rep for taking games over in the 4th, willing his team to victory, well you now LeBron you don't have to wait to do that, you are allowed to dominate the early stages of a game. He needs to come out and set the tone, force Boston to fully commit to him and/or make Boston have to adjust their game plan early.

If LeBron continues to be unsure of himself, his game and what to do then the team will follow and will be watching the ECF from the confines of their own homes.

Game 2 better be a wake up call.


It's NOT his head.

The guy's not healthy.

Even the LBJ haters would have to admit that if the guy was healthy he'd at least jack up some 3 balls to see where he was at. I could see if he was clagin' em' early and went into a shell, but he's NEVER not given himself a chance to be hot...until last night.

His "crying wolf" act that he's employed his entire career has some of us fooled, but that ain't the same guy that we've seen all year, and it isn't because he's magically become lethargic and lazy. He's NEVER shied away from big games or big moments in the past, no matter the success rate - he most certainly hasn't lost track of the team goals or his personal guts now.

Jesus H. Christ, this is the whole ball of wax ILO. We can analyze till the cows come home, buy GD, The Cavs need the King to be right, or nothing else matters. Period.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 04, 2010 8:07 pm

It's NOT his head.

The guy's not healthy.

Even the LBJ haters would have to admit that if the guy was healthy he'd at least jack up some 3 balls to see where he was at. I could see if he was clagin' em' early and went into a shell, but he's NEVER not given himself a chance to be hot...until last night.

His "crying wolf" act that he's employed his entire career has some of us fooled, but that ain't the same guy that we've seen all year, and it isn't because he's magically become lethargic and lazy. He's NEVER shied away from big games or big moments in the past, no matter the success rate - he most certainly hasn't lost track of the team goals or his personal guts now.

Jesus H. Christ, this is the whole ball of wax ILO. We can analyze till the cows come home, buy GD, The Cavs need the King to be right, or nothing else matters. Period.
Lead, he has jacked up 3's, 10 to be exact, which falls right in line with his routine game of 5 attempts per. Plus his outside shots HAVE NOT looked bad, definitely not bad enough to make it obvious that he is really injured, what has he had one ugly miss. Your reasoning that he hasn't given himself a chance to get hot goes an awful long way to back up my point, he is a bit thrown off by all this.

Not to mention after game 1 LeBron mentioned he was letting the elbow get into his head and it had an effect on him, hence Mo saying, "just be yourself". It's not a conspiracy theory Lead it is a fairly obvious observation from watching the guy play.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby waborat » Tue May 04, 2010 8:52 pm

FUDU wrote:
It's NOT his head.

The guy's not healthy.

Even the LBJ haters would have to admit that if the guy was healthy he'd at least jack up some 3 balls to see where he was at. I could see if he was clagin' em' early and went into a shell, but he's NEVER not given himself a chance to be hot...until last night.

His "crying wolf" act that he's employed his entire career has some of us fooled, but that ain't the same guy that we've seen all year, and it isn't because he's magically become lethargic and lazy. He's NEVER shied away from big games or big moments in the past, no matter the success rate - he most certainly hasn't lost track of the team goals or his personal guts now.

Jesus H. Christ, this is the whole ball of wax ILO. We can analyze till the cows come home, buy GD, The Cavs need the King to be right, or nothing else matters. Period.
Lead, he has jacked up 3's, 10 to be exact, which falls right in line with his routine game of 5 attempts per. Plus his outside shots HAVE NOT looked bad, definitely not bad enough to make it obvious that he is really injured, what has he had one ugly miss. Your reasoning that he hasn't given himself a chance to get hot goes an awful long way to back up my point, he is a bit thrown off by all this.

Not to mention after game 1 LeBron mentioned he was letting the elbow get into his head and it had an effect on him, hence Mo saying, "just be yourself". It's not a conspiracy theory Lead it is a fairly obvious observation from watching the guy play.


Not gonna debate that he isn't 100%, but count me as one who agrees with FUDU that something just doesn't add up...

Kingie was able to put together one hell of a solid (although quiet) game on Saturday includig 12 pts in the 4th...Did his elbow possibly tighten up over Sunday & Monday? Maybe, but I'm still not seeing a guy coming back to the bench/huddle and grimacing or rubbing his right arm enough to warrant anything serious...No trainers are ever seen near him asking how he's doing either...

He's still able to shoot, make funny arm salutes during pregame, throw up rosin, hoist an MVP trophy, smack hands after a made or missed free throw and throw his arms up in the air during post game interviews...He didn't receive a cortisone shot and the docs said it can't get any worse...

Anyone who's had Tennis Elbow knows that it kills to do any of that stuff...

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby jb » Tue May 04, 2010 10:33 pm

I have no idea which cavs will show up.

What I do know is that if they go down 1 - 2 the series is as good as over. Not enough guts nor heart to come back on the road with a dinged up Bron.

The catch, the foot, the drive, the fumble, the shot, the Mesa, meet The elbow...

The season is the next 48.

Out.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 pm

IF NO
Image

NO
Image

NO
Image

NO
Image

NO
Image

THEN NO
Image

Time to turn it up.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby jb » Tue May 04, 2010 10:46 pm

Conspiracy theory....

If I wanted to do a flick this summer instead of be at mandatory practice and not be black balled from the '12 Olympic team and recapture some luster for sitting out late season games, I just might concoct an injury that required substantial off season rest that was dificult to pin point.

' sayin'.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed May 05, 2010 9:42 am

From the Canton Rep:

The Cavs also need more production from O’Neal. He is shooting 45.8 percent from the floor despite nearly all of his shots coming within 5 feet.

“He’s going to have to be able to score some points down there to loosen it up for the rest of our guys,” Brown said. “We need to establish a post game against Boston, and he’s one of the guys that can do it for us.”


Sounds like Brown is not ready to go primarily with the small lineup yet. He wants to establish a post game. Interesting he said Shaq is "one of the guys who can do it for us." Who else did he have in mind, exactly?

I'd post up LeBron if Ray Allen is on him. Shooting the jump hook shouldn't bother the elbow. He made one in Game 2 after not getting called for a travel on that crab step. If Pierce is on him I'd still post him up to get Pierce in foul trouble. If LeBron can't/won't shoot outside and he can't drive against the Boston zone, how about posting him up? They'd have to get Shaq out of there, though.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed May 05, 2010 10:22 am

If LBJ hadn't shot that free throw left-handed, nobody would be talking about this injury. If he's hurt, then adjust.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 05, 2010 12:17 pm

KG is shooting 42% in the series and according to most he is slaughtering us. That also includes his like 5-8 second half yesterday when we decided to face guard him for some odd reason.

Shaq is also killing us on offense according to most by shooting 46%.

Something just doesn't add up.

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed May 05, 2010 12:22 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:KG is shooting 42% in the series and according to most he is slaughtering us. That also includes his like 5-8 second half yesterday when we decided to face guard him for some odd reason.

Shaq is also killing us on offense according to most by shooting 46%.

Something just doesn't add up.

*I fully understand that Shaq has been ineffective for long stretches as well as effective for smaller stretches, more so just sayin'

That's because most commentators are superficial and just look at the box score, and not even the entire box score at that.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 05, 2010 12:34 pm

Ah, I lied, KG was 2/3 in the 3rd Q and 3/8 in the 4th and most if not all of those buckets came while we were face guarding.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Cease » Wed May 05, 2010 1:32 pm

aoxo1 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:KG is shooting 42% in the series and according to most he is slaughtering us. That also includes his like 5-8 second half yesterday when we decided to face guard him for some odd reason.

Shaq is also killing us on offense according to most by shooting 46%.

Something just doesn't add up.

*I fully understand that Shaq has been ineffective for long stretches as well as effective for smaller stretches, more so just sayin'

That's because most commentators are superficial and just look at the box score, and not even the entire box score at that.


ESPN stat line for Shaq has him at 36% for the series, not 46%. In that light, the numbers bear out Shaq vs. KG perception pointed to above. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... ayerId=614

The expanded KG line for the series shows that he's pulling down 10 boards a game and delivering 3 assists and 18 pts. in 36 mins per. He's only gotten two free throw attempts, reading into that suggests that either he's not getting calls or too many of his 41 shots have not been challenged.

My assertion that KG/Jamison has been "advantage KG" comes less from the box score and more from viewing the games. He's getting good looks (6-8 footers) and has frustrated Jamison. YMMV.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 1:46 pm

Prosecutor wrote:From the Canton Rep:

I'd post up LeBron if Ray Allen is on him. Shooting the jump hook shouldn't bother the elbow. He made one in Game 2 after not getting called for a travel on that crab step. If Pierce is on him I'd still post him up to get Pierce in foul trouble. If LeBron can't/won't shoot outside and he can't drive against the Boston zone, how about posting him up? They'd have to get Shaq out of there, though.



That sounds nice in theory, but haven't you commented to yourself at least a few times during this postseason about LBJ's post game being piss poor?

I know I have.

He's looked so bad in the post so far I just don't even want him doing it anymore this year unless he puts some practice in on it first. It's like he has no effing clue what to do. Its weird. Like he never did it as a kid.

Posting up comes pretty natural to most kids who play backyard ball in my experience. No one has to teach you at first, its a natural way to handle defense in a driveway with limited space, or playing on a half court.

It looks to me like LBJ literally just never posted up during his youth.

So yah that would be great if LBJ could post up 1/10th as well as West does. As it is, it's the only glaring hole in his game.

I think Boston would be glad to have LBJ doing what he does worst on a regular basis in this series.

Put bron on the line for 2 or in post all game? That's a wet dream for Beantown.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed May 05, 2010 5:01 pm

Boils down to this for me:

If LBJ is legitimately hurt then this series ends the season and we move on to the Summer of Suck that I'll tune out with every fiber of my being.

If LBJ is okay the Cavs win this series in six games.

And either way I don't see him going anywhere.

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 05, 2010 5:56 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:KG is shooting 42% in the series and according to most he is slaughtering us. That also includes his like 5-8 second half yesterday when we decided to face guard him for some odd reason.

Shaq is also killing us on offense according to most by shooting 46%.

Something just doesn't add up.

*I fully understand that Shaq has been ineffective for long stretches as well as effective for smaller stretches, more so just sayin'
Shaq is honestly just 3 or 4 made buckets away from being effective for us really, the problem is many of his misses are truly bunnies he should be making more of. Plus we stop going to him too soon, not that any of that makes this series 2-0 mind you.

FTR whomever up thread made mention of LeBron not getting called for a travel, that is b/c he didn't travel. Completely legitimate jump stop, a tough call to make either way for a ref in real time though.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed May 05, 2010 6:12 pm

Shaq is at 46% for the playoffs. Throw me in the camp calling for more minutes and more looks. I can see why people go crazy, the guy is able to back people down to within 2 feet of the basket, and when he misses it is cinge worthy. However we have seen that we can get the Celtic bigs in foul trouble, and while we haven't truely capatilized on that yet it is a sure way to open up the lane.

Gotta force KG/Rasheed/Big Baby to cover O'Neal after Perkins gets in foul trouble. Eventually they will have to double. This is all contingent on us not being down huge very early, and Shaq not going 0'fer on his touches.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:17 pm

I don't think Shaq needs more minutes per-say, he's gotten plenty.

20-25 minutes if he isn't shooting great is fine, IMO.

That said, if JJ fails massively on D like he did in the second quarter of game 2 and/or Jamo is cold and/or we have a lead late in the game feel free to pile on 5-10 more minutes.

He does need to start hitting those bunnies, it'll make the world go round much better.

Also, keeping him fresh for the fourth is big. Combining him w/ LBJ makes for some great closing down the stretch. Especially is Boston is in terrible foul trouble and trying to avoid Hack-A-Shaq.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed May 05, 2010 7:27 pm

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed May 05, 2010 8:14 pm

That gif rocks...

To be the gif you have to beat the gif. Also great punch by the Texas Tornado...
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed May 05, 2010 8:18 pm

Orenthal wrote:That gif rocks...

To be the gif you have to beat the gif. Also great punch by the Texas Tornado...



Lol I was searching for a new gif and this came up and I remember actually watching this Royal Rumble as a kid and me and my cousin just thought Rik Flair was awesome and hilarious when he did this.


I miss what WWF used to be

haven't watched wrestling since I was 13 and it got poo
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed May 05, 2010 8:20 pm

his walk sells the gif
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed May 05, 2010 8:23 pm

That is funny because this Rumble was one of the few I ever saw... Doesn't it end with Hogan distracting, and helping pull out a then Sid Justice? Classic Flair my favorite wrestler...
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Wed May 05, 2010 8:59 pm

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby pup » Wed May 05, 2010 10:53 pm

Might be a stupid thought, but could JJ handle Perkins?
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed May 05, 2010 11:22 pm

Orenthal wrote:That is funny because this Rumble was one of the few I ever saw... Doesn't it end with Hogan distracting, and helping pull out a then Sid Justice? Classic Flair my favorite wrestler...


So OT But I can't help myself:

My favorite thing about Flair was every single effin match he would climb the turnbuckles only to get thrown off. I don't think he ever landed that move.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby davemanddd » Thu May 06, 2010 12:44 am

pup wrote:Might be a stupid thought, but could JJ handle Perkins?



no, i don't think it's stupid at all. of course, i was thinking something similar so i'm maybe a little too biased to ask. hee-hee!!!

no but seriously though, if there is one thing that has been missing in mike brown's rotations so far in these playoffs, it's a little creativity.

people can talk all they want about shortening the playoff rotations and only going with 8 men, but the thing that made the cavs what they were this season is their superior depth and their ability to go 10 men deep or even more. it was the strength of the team and now you wanna take that away from them at the most important time of the year??? now that's stupid.

it seems to me that varejao is probably gonna miss game 3 with his back spasms and so something is gonna have to change. here's an idea: would it kill brown to go with a lineup of shaq, jj, antawn, lebron and mo???

ap has been their weakest link all year and has done nothing to dispel that opinion in the playoffs. he needs to be replaced pronto and who better to be the starting 2-guard then lebron himself???

then you move jamison to lebron's small forward spot & insert jj back in as the starting power forward like he was for a large chunk of the season anyway. this gives the cavs a very athletic and versatile front line that can both run and play in the halfcourt.

what will happen then when both teams go to the bench, boston will bring in sheed to go up against jj but the cavs can counter with z who has always given sheed fits as noted by the time that a frustrated sheed split z's dome open with his elbow. ever since then, z has owned sheed. he's just so much taller than jj and sheed can't just shoot over the top of z like he can jj.

they could then bring in d-west and parker to bomb away from the outside while j-moon adds some more athleticism to the equation. let's face it, the cavs have a lot more weapons to use than what the c's do, if only they would utilize them properly.


it will be interesting to see what adjustments mike brown makes between games 2 and 3. the question is, will he make the right ones??? we can only hope. go cavs!!!

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby waborat » Thu May 06, 2010 6:48 am

davemanddd wrote:it seems to me that varejao is probably gonna miss game 3 with his back spasms and so something is gonna have to change.



Windy said that he should practice today...

Doesn't mean a whole lot as back spasms are a bitch...

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu May 06, 2010 7:26 am

pup wrote:Might be a stupid thought, but could JJ handle Perkins?

He can handle him if he's hurting

which he is
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby pup » Thu May 06, 2010 9:32 am

Hold on. I am not changing starting lineups.

But to get him in the game, you have to find a match up that will cause him to be abused the least. And I think Perk might just be that match up.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby davemanddd » Thu May 06, 2010 9:44 am

pup wrote:Hold on. I am not changing starting lineups.

But to get him in the game, you have to find a match up that will cause him to be abused the least. And I think Perk might just be that match up.


i just don't want to see a repeat of ragweed wallace taking advantage of the shorter hickson. they need to put z on sheed. i also want to see more pick and roll between lebron and jamison. if they get just those 2 things alone, it will make a world of difference between game 2 and game 3.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby pup » Thu May 06, 2010 10:37 am

davemanddd wrote:
pup wrote:Hold on. I am not changing starting lineups.

But to get him in the game, you have to find a match up that will cause him to be abused the least. And I think Perk might just be that match up.


i just don't want to see a repeat of ragweed wallace taking advantage of the shorter hickson. they need to put z on sheed. i also want to see more pick and roll between lebron and jamison. if they get just those 2 things alone, it will make a world of difference between game 2 and game 3.


Which is why I am putting him on Perk. IIRC, during the stretch known as Sheed killing us, Andy was in the game and defending Perk while JJ was getting lost. Maybe the C's did some good work with a couple of bigs picking for each other and forcing a switch to get that match up, but we have to be smart enough to fight through and not switch. Would rather Andy had to chase than have JJ just hang out.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu May 06, 2010 11:22 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Orenthal wrote:That is funny because this Rumble was one of the few I ever saw... Doesn't it end with Hogan distracting, and helping pull out a then Sid Justice? Classic Flair my favorite wrestler...


So OT But I can't help myself:

My favorite thing about Flair was every single effin match he would climb the turnbuckles only to get thrown off. I don't think he ever landed that move.


That and all the classic villian type stuff like eye pokes and low blows is why Flair was the man. He knew how to make the sheet entertaining. The promo's he cut were the stuff of legend.

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Don't sell Perkin short. If he is able to back a guy down he will, and his offense while limited should not be discounted. The Celtics being a verteran team will expose a weakness and expoilt a weakness on the court. JJ makes sense only if you are really going to run up and down the court, not some token effort. Celtics will still aim to slow down the game, and unless you can make stops and rebound you'll never begin to run and gun...
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu May 06, 2010 12:36 pm

Some Numbers (NOTE: SMALL SAMPLE SIZES APPLY):

102 -- Williams has guarded Rondo for 102 of the 172 possessions that Rondo has been on the floor. Much was made of the switch to put Anthony Parker on Rondo in the third quarter of Game 1, but it was Williams who was guarding Rondo for most of the fourth. That was when the Celtics scored just 15 points. Parker has guarded Rondo on 30 of the 102 possessions, only three more than Delonte West (27).

NBA defense is not a one-on-one task and the man guarding the ball always needs help from his teammates. But of Rondo's three primary defenders, Parker has seemingly done the best job (30 possessions are, of course, another small sample size). The Celtics have scored 29 points on those 30 possessions (96.7 per 100 possessions), with Rondo responsible for 20 (66.7 per 100).

With Williams defending Rondo, the Celtics have scored 106 points on 102 possessions (103.9 per 100), with Rondo responsible for 65 (63.7 per 100). And with West defending Rondo, Boston has scored 39 points on 27 possessions (144.4 per 100), with Rondo responsible for 31 (114.8 per 100).

17 -- Most of Rondo's assists (17 of the 31, producing 42 points) have come without him making a move toward the basket. As dangerous as he is when he penetrates, he's had more dimes just standing on the perimeter, with his teammates getting open via screens. There were also a few lobs to Kevin Garnett when he was being fronted by Antawn Jamison.

The Cavs may want to think about pressuring Rondo more up top so those passes aren't so easy to make. When the defender sags off, Rondo can easily make any pass he wants. With more on-ball pressure, his vision is blocked and the simple pass is more difficult to make. (Of course, more pressure means Rondo can beat the defense off the dribble.)

10 -- Ten of Rondo's 31 assists have come on drives in half-court sets. Five of those were drive-and-kicks to jump shooters and the other five were dishes to teammates under the basket. Of the 10, six came with the help of a high screen. Rondo was able to beat his man off the dribble for the other four.

4 -- The other four assists have come on the break. All four were to the Celtics' big men (Glen Davis, Garnett and Perkins), who have beat the Cavs' big men down the floor.

28 -- Most of Rondo's points (28 of the 40) have come on drives to the basket. Of those 16 scores (seven field goals, nine trips to the line), 10 came with the help of a high screen.

1 -- This final number isn't Rondo-specific, but fascinating nonetheless ... and perhaps a little encouraging for the Cavs. Though they won by 18, the Celtics scored on just one more possession (45) than the Cavs did (44) in Game 2. Boston benefitted from 13 three-point possessions and one four-point possession, and only had a single one-point possession. Meanwhile, Cleveland had nine one-point possessions and just seven three-point possessions.


Per: Schuhmann, who is attending these games

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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu May 06, 2010 3:46 pm

JCoz wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:From the Canton Rep:

I'd post up LeBron if Ray Allen is on him. Shooting the jump hook shouldn't bother the elbow. He made one in Game 2 after not getting called for a travel on that crab step. If Pierce is on him I'd still post him up to get Pierce in foul trouble. If LeBron can't/won't shoot outside and he can't drive against the Boston zone, how about posting him up? They'd have to get Shaq out of there, though.



That sounds nice in theory, but haven't you commented to yourself at least a few times during this postseason about LBJ's post game being piss poor?

I know I have.

He's looked so bad in the post so far I just don't even want him doing it anymore this year unless he puts some practice in on it first. It's like he has no effing clue what to do. Its weird. Like he never did it as a kid.

Posting up comes pretty natural to most kids who play backyard ball in my experience. No one has to teach you at first, its a natural way to handle defense in a driveway with limited space, or playing on a half court.

It looks to me like LBJ literally just never posted up during his youth.

So yah that would be great if LBJ could post up 1/10th as well as West does. As it is, it's the only glaring hole in his game.

I think Boston would be glad to have LBJ doing what he does worst on a regular basis in this series.

Put bron on the line for 2 or in post all game? That's a wet dream for Beantown.


Generally I agree that LeBron does not look comfortable in the post and normally I wouldn't suggest it. But LeBron is not normal. If he can't shoot from outside and he doesn't want to drive into the Celtics zone defense with the bum wing, then what else is there?

If Ray Allen is guarding him LeBron has about three inches and sixty pounds on him. He should be able to post up Allen and score on him with ease. Even Pierce is giving up a lot of weight to LeBron and would be at a disadvantage. I know LeBron doesn't have a repertoire of slick post moves, but with his height/strength/quickness combination he doesn't need a polished post game to be effective against smaller players, IMO.

My guess is that he wouldn't shoot that much. He would either draw the foul or draw a double team with Perkins, Garnett, Baby or Sheed coming to help. In that case Bron simply passes off to a Cavs big rolling to the hoop or kicks it out for the 3-point shot. If he's not doubled he takes it to the hole and probably gets fouled. I'd like to see Allen or Pierce sitting down with foul trouble.

If they put a big on LeBron he wouldn't post up but would try to beat him off the dribble. Even with a bad elbow LeBron is still too quick for the big guys and too big for the quick guys.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu May 06, 2010 3:55 pm

We can talk about stats and matchups, and I love stats, but what concerns me is the failure of anybody to respond when the Celtics were stealing Game 2, which was early in the 3rd quarter.

The score was 52-48 at halftime, so the Cavs were in better shape than in Game 1 when they were down by 11 at the half. Over the first 8-10 minutes of the 3rd quarter the Celts went from a four point lead to a 25-point lead. After that point it was pretty much garbage time.

During that 3rd quarter Celtics run the Cavs stood around helplessly. LeBron was on the floor but he didn't react. Mo couldn't hit a shot. Shaq couldn't get anything to go down. Brown wasn't able to go to his bench and find somebody to come in and stop the bleeding, or make any kind of effective adjustment. I'm not blaming Brown; I'm just saying that nobody seemed to recognize that the game was slipping away. Nobody responded.

In the 4th quarter they made a run which improved everybody's stats, but this is one game where I don't think the stats matter that much. In the decisive 3rd quarter there was nobody willing or able to step up. That can't happen again.
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Re: Cavs/Celts Game 3

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu May 06, 2010 4:36 pm

If I hear one more person asking for Z to get a bulk of minutes (sans an AV injury) or for Jamo at the 3, i'm going to cry. Seriously. Bawl my eyes out.
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