Raise the retirement age already

[JoJo White]

Srsly, these Tea Party hacks want the government to "Cut spending! Cut spending! Cut spending!", but when it comes to cutting the spending that will benefit THEM, you don't hear a peep and they're quieter than the Boston Garden will be after the Cavs finish the sweep of the Celtics in Round 2.

We're so far in the red that raising the age of retirement to say, 77, is the only viable, long-term plan to significantly make a dent in the debt.

At least some politicians like Rubio from Florida and Ryun of Wisconsin (both Republicans) are starting to lightly suggest raising the age of retirement, but nowhere near what is needed.

[Lebowski]

Amen.

Makes 100% sense, but that only means nothing will change.

I may come under fire for this, but I have relatives in the auto industry that retired years ago in their 50s. Come on.

Politicians will tread lightly, no doubt, for fear of angering their silver haired voting base.

[FUDU]

Retirement age = life expectancy?

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

If we have to suggest a retirement age of 77 then we really truly are blind to what is wrong in this country.

[Stu]

Retirement age = life expectancy?

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

If we have to suggest a retirement age of 77 then we really truly are blind to what is wrong in this country.

why? the original intent of social security was to provide an insurance for people who lived beyond life expectancy. thats why the retirement age was set at or around the life expectancy age back when it was created.

it wasnt supposed to be a 14 year welfare program.

[jb]

Srsly, these Tea Party hacks want the government to "Cut spending! Cut spending! Cut spending!", but when it comes to cutting the spending that will benefit THEM, you don't hear a peep and they're quieter than the Boston Garden will be after the Cavs finish the sweep of the Celtics in Round 2.

We're so far in the red that raising the age of retirement to say, 77, is the only viable, long-term plan to significantly make a dent in the debt.

At least some politicians like Rubio from Florida and Ryun of Wisconsin (both Republicans) are starting to lightly suggest raising the age of retirement, but nowhere near what is needed.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Truth.

At it's very heart, the alleged Tea Party has nada to do w/ small government or limited taxes, and is the ultimate NIMBY big welfare government movement. They just want theirs and don't want anyone else to get anything, nor do they want to pay.

I wish the mediots would change their nomenclature to the "Fort Sumpter Party" already. Anytime you see the mediots coverage, these clowns are broken up into exactly 3 stereotypes: elderly milking medicare and ss , redneck melitia whack jobs who want to succeed and get ready to defend you and I against drones and laser guided weapons ( WOLVERINES! ) , and religeous nuts who think Christ is coming within 5 years (so why care about the debt?) .

And yes, if you earn a permanent vacation at 65, good for you. But if not, the gov't doesn't have to give you one. At least raise it to 70.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Truth.

At it's very heart, the alleged Tea Party has nada to do w/ small government or limited taxes, and is the ultimate NIMBY big welfare government movement. They just want theirs and don't want anyone else to get anything, nor do they want to pay.

I wish the mediots would change their nomenclature to the "Fort Sumpter Party" already.

And yes, if you ern a permanent vacation at 65, good for you. But if not, the gov't doesn't have to give you one. At least raise it to 70.

OT

Have you ever noticed the Tea Party really has no message other than "Taxes BAD!" "Big Goverment BAD!"?

[jb]

Truth.

At it's very heart, the alleged Tea Party has nada to do w/ small government or limited taxes, and is the ultimate NIMBY big welfare government movement. They just want theirs and don't want anyone else to get anything, nor do they want to pay.

I wish the mediots would change their nomenclature to the "Fort Sumpter Party" already.

And yes, if you ern a permanent vacation at 65, good for you. But if not, the gov't doesn't have to give you one. At least raise it to 70.

OT

Have you ever noticed the Tea Party really has no message other than "Taxes BAD!" "Big Goverment BAD!"?

They have "my medicare good" down pat, too.

[FUDU]

It all comes down to taxes, and we're over taxed, there is no argument against that. It is always better for "the people" to keep their money, as much of it as they can. I am against handouts and all these type of programs in general but there is reasoning to justify their existence to a point. The problem is we don't run these programs in responsible and accountable ways. We are terrible at appropriations in this country for one thing.

You either set up a program like SS correctly or don't do it at all and allow survival of the fittest to run its course.

[jb]

It all comes down to taxes, and we're over taxed, there is no argument against that. It is always better for "the people" to keep their money, as much of it as they can. I am against handouts and all these type of programs in general but there is reasoning to justify their existence to a point. The problem is we don't run these programs in responsible and accountable ways. We are terrible at appropriations in this country for one thing.

You either set up a program like SS correctly or don't do it at all and allow survival of the fittest to run its course.

We are not overtaxed. If we were, there would be a surplus.

The problem is that we are undertaxed for what "we" collectively want. Not that we want too much. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't. I don't know. All I know is we don't pay for it.

The real problem is that intellectual dishonesty is a collective way of American life.

[FUDU]

It all comes down to taxes, and we're over taxed, there is no argument against that. It is always better for "the people" to keep their money, as much of it as they can. I am against handouts and all these type of programs in general but there is reasoning to justify their existence to a point. The problem is we don't run these programs in responsible and accountable ways. We are terrible at appropriations in this country for one thing.

You either set up a program like SS correctly or don't do it at all and allow survival of the fittest to run its course.

We are not overtaxed. If we were, there would be a surplus.

The problem is that we are undertaxed for what "we" collectively want. Not that we want too much. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't. I don't know. All I know is we don't pay for it.

The real problem is that intellectual dishonesty is a collective way of American life.

Totally agree on your last statement, completely disagree on the first.

I'll have evidence of why at the end of the year when I finish my own personal finance audit and will most likely see my tax rate nearing or at 50%, and what do I get for it besides 52 garbage pick ups and couple three token snow plow appearances, pretty much nothing. The kick in the balls part is somebody else is getting pretty much everything.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Wasn't there a time in this country when the tax rate on the top 1% income brackets was at like 90%? Wasn't there a time when families could get by on 1 parent working and still be middle class?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

and what do I get for it besides 52 garbage pick ups and couple three token snow plow appearances, pretty much nothing

Roads, bridges, public schools and libraries, mail delivery, and help if god forbid you ever lose your job.

[FUDU]

and what do I get for it besides 52 garbage pick ups and couple three token snow plow appearances, pretty much nothing

Roads, bridges, public schools and libraries, mail delivery, and help if god forbid you ever lose your job.

These things are good: ice cream and cake, a ride on a Harley, seeing monkeys in the trees, the rain on my tongue, and the sun shining on my face.

These things are a drag: Shitty roads, bridges, schools and libraries, dust in my hair, holes in my shoes, no money in my pocket, and the sun shining on my face.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

These things are good: ice cream and cake, a ride on a Harley, seeing monkeys in the trees, the rain on my tongue, and the sun shining on my face.

So.... You're ideal day would be riding a harley, eating ice cream cake (hey why not just put 'em together and save the space) with a monkey in a tree while catching rain drops with your tounge in the sunshine?

If we cut taxes on you how does that fix shitty schools, roads, and bridges? Would you prefer our streets to look like Mumbai India?

[jack_tors]

These things are good: ice cream and cake, a ride on a Harley, seeing monkeys in the trees, the rain on my tongue, and the sun shining on my face.

So.... You're ideal day would be riding a harley, eating ice cream cake (hey why not just put 'em together and save the space) with a monkey in a tree while catching rain drops with your tounge in the sunshine?

If we cut taxes on you how does that fix shitty schools, roads, and bridges? Would you prefer our streets to look like Mumbai India?

They already do in some places cause we piss the money away on bloated defense projects and other pork barrel initiatives. That money is desperately needed for an aging road, bridge, dam, and sewer system. But, by all means, lets cut taxes cause that will fix the problem.

The government needs to be run like a business instead of an entity with an endless blank check.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This thread is a joke...

Work till you're 77 ???

Call me when you're 60 with that lame assed take.

Take the $106,000 cap off of the SS tax. Problem solved

Leave the old coots alone. If you're really really lucky, you'll be one someday.

Fraud, waste, government pensions, government jobs, payoffs, kick backs, political favoritisms, trips, hookers and open credit cards....and you want me to work longer so I can give more?

Fuck off!

[jb]

It all comes down to taxes, and we're over taxed, there is no argument against that. It is always better for "the people" to keep their money, as much of it as they can. I am against handouts and all these type of programs in general but there is reasoning to justify their existence to a point. The problem is we don't run these programs in responsible and accountable ways. We are terrible at appropriations in this country for one thing.

You either set up a program like SS correctly or don't do it at all and allow survival of the fittest to run its course.

We are not overtaxed. If we were, there would be a surplus.

The problem is that we are undertaxed for what "we" collectively want. Not that we want too much. Maybe we do. Maybe we don't. I don't know. All I know is we don't pay for it.

The real problem is that intellectual dishonesty is a collective way of American life.

Totally agree on your last statement, completely disagree on the first.

I'll have evidence of why at the end of the year when I finish my own personal finance audit and will most likely see my tax rate nearing or at 50%, and what do I get for it besides 52 garbage pick ups and couple three token snow plow appearances, pretty much nothing. The kick in the balls part is somebody else is getting pretty much everything.

I'm with you.

I hate paying it as well.

Wish I coul slsh out military spending to about a quarter. I can't.

When finishing your audit, check out your end of life expenses as they are projected. I think that's where CDT is coming from. They are staggering enough to make you want to eat a Glock at some point. And there is zero incentive to ave and pay your own freight. It is pretty much hopeless.

[jb]

This thread is a joke...

Work till you're 77 ???

Call me when you're 60 with that lame assed take.

Take the $106,000 cap off of the SS tax. Problem solved

Leave the old coots alone. If you're really really lucky, you'll be one someday.

Fraud, waste, government pensions, government jobs, payoffs, kick backs, political favoritisms, trips, hookers and open credit cards....and you want me to work longer so I can give more?

Fuck off!

If you're "old" , I'm Billy Graham Sr. I don't give a shit about your chronological age. I'd hire your cranky ass.

BTW - all the shit you list won't make a dent.

Entitlements.

Military.

Nowhere else to tap into that isn't just rant and raving bullshit. And keep in mind that welfare as we knew if has now been dead since about 1997 / 1998.

So who wants to give up what to balance the budget, pay down the debt, protect economic interests, and not die in the street or get death panelled?

Couple links from both center, left & right.... basiclly the same shit

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

[jb]

These things are good: ice cream and cake, a ride on a Harley, seeing monkeys in the trees, the rain on my tongue, and the sun shining on my face.

So.... You're ideal day would be riding a harley, eating ice cream cake (hey why not just put 'em together and save the space) with a monkey in a tree while catching rain drops with your tounge in the sunshine?

If we cut taxes on you how does that fix shitty schools, roads, and bridges? Would you prefer our streets to look like Mumbai India?

They already do in some places cause we piss the money away on bloated defense projects and other pork barrel initiatives. That money is desperately needed for an aging road, bridge, dam, and sewer system. But, by all means, lets cut taxes cause that will fix the problem.

The government needs to be run like a business instead of an entity with an endless blank check.

My roads and health care are in some really awesome bases replete with KFC / pizza huts in Iraq, schools in Afghanistan they will burn down the second we leave, and like Cheech and Chong said, "up in smoke", spent on bull crap made-up wars.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The government needs to be run like a business instead of an entity with an endless blank check.

Tell that to all those fucking banks who got bailed out by us only to foreclose on millions of Americans. It would've been so awesome if they had run those like businesses.

[jack_tors]

The government needs to be run like a business instead of an entity with an endless blank check.

Tell that to all those fucking banks who got bailed out by us only to foreclose on millions of Americans. It would've been so awesome if they had run those like businesses.

No kidding but I am sure thats just because of all the restrictions we put on banks. We should definitely go back to deregulation because that was just stupendous. Friggin Obamunism.. LOL

Seriously though, I cant take these tea party folks seriously when they nominate Palin as their speaker. You cant be anti establishment and then designate someone part of the establishment as the face of your movement.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Paulson, Geithner, Frank, Dodd, and those Bailout Bank CEOs should be fucking shot.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This thread is a joke...

Work till you're 77 ???

Call me when you're 60 with that lame assed take.

Take the $106,000 cap off of the SS tax. Problem solved

Leave the old coots alone. If you're really really lucky, you'll be one someday.

Fraud, waste, government pensions, government jobs, payoffs, kick backs, political favoritisms, trips, hookers and open credit cards....and you want me to work longer so I can give more?

Fuck off!

If you're "old" , I'm Billy Graham Sr. I don't give a shit about your chronological age. I'd hire your cranky ass.

BTW - all the shit you list won't make a dent.

Entitlements.

Military.

Nowhere else to tap into that isn't just rant and raving bullshit. And keep in mind that welfare as we knew if has now been dead since about 1997 / 1998.

So who wants to give up what to balance the budget, pay down the debt, protect economic interests, and not die in the street or get death panelled?

Couple links from both center, left & right.... basiclly the same shit

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

In my mind, those agenciess and programs are covered in my post....

What I write, is sometimes diff-frint.........Still wanna hire me???

In any event, I once built a retaining wall for an 84 yr old man who still mowed and trimmed his own lawn and did 30 hrs a week at China-Mart....while chain smoking

Guy was sharp as a tack, still climbed ladders and tried to work me for deals and freebies every day..... I once said to him I wanted to be just like him when I grew up.....he said, "be a prick"

Gospel^^^^^^^^^^

I will not waver, as I plan to hit 100

[FUDU]

These things are good: ice cream and cake, a ride on a Harley, seeing monkeys in the trees, the rain on my tongue, and the sun shining on my face.

So.... You're ideal day would be riding a harley, eating ice cream cake (hey why not just put 'em together and save the space) with a monkey in a tree while catching rain drops with your tounge in the sunshine?

If we cut taxes on you how does that fix shitty schools, roads, and bridges? Would you prefer our streets to look like Mumbai India?

Cmon CDT get the reference.

Roads in NEO (Cuyahoga specifically) are awful, absolutely some of the worst anywhere.

In the end the roads, bridges, schools all suck even w/my money so yeah I want my cut back. I'd rather have to put in the time and physical effort of helping fix the damn road and bridges to be honest. I know it is unrealistic and sounds selfish, I'm being have serious and half facetious. But when you see so much of your own money go out the window in the name of all these so called benefits (and you see no benefit from them) then WTF, might as well pull the GD plug FAIC.

CDT you're young and liberal minded and you know what, I love ya as a poster despite those.

[FUDU]

To take JB's point about intellectual dishonesty a bit further, yeah we're that and pretty much hypocrites in how we raise our young to strive to be the best and be prepared in later life. Then what do we do as a society and a government, we throw out the life preservers at the first sign of rough waters. We breed this stuff, day & night. We don't let allow people to fail anymore. Nobody wants to see others fail per say but if people cannot make it and you keep saving their asses then they will never ever push themselves and turn things around.

There is little to no incentive to be accountable and do things the right way anymore. I'm not suggesting I should be rewarded for getting by the right way w/out the help of society, I am just saying to stop punishing me for doing so.

[jfiling]

To take JB's point about intellectual dishonesty a bit further, yeah we're that and pretty much hypocrites in how we raise our young to strive to be the best and be prepared in later life. Then what do we do as a society and a government, we throw out the life preservers at the first sign of rough waters. We breed this stuff, day & night. We don't let allow people to fail anymore. Nobody wants to see others fail per say but if people cannot make it and you keep saving their asses then they will never ever push themselves and turn things around.

There is little to no incentive to be accountable and do things the right way anymore. I'm not suggesting I should be rewarded for getting by the right way w/out the help of society, I am just saying to stop punishing me for doing so.

^THIS.

It's amazing that as this has become more and more of an entitlement society how few people want to acknowledge it. After all, the rich are just an everlasting font of free money to spend on whatever social program the party in charge wants to create, so why not blame them for not giving their fair share?

I really hope I don't live long enough to watch the collapse of the United States, but I think I will. Those will be interesting times, and I hope I can figure out a way to profit from them.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Roads in NEO (Cuyahoga specifically) are awful, absolutely some of the worst anywhere

And cutting taxes fixes this how? You need to demand more of your elected officals or vote them out. You do have a say in the matter, those pig fuckers work for you. I undertsand you want your taxes lowered, but you'll have to raise taxes on others to make up for the lost revenue or else your shit services will be no services.

I'd rather have to put in the time and physical effort of helping fix the damn road and bridges to be honest.

If you work a full time job you ain't repaving any roads.

. But when you see so much of your own money go out the window in the name of all these so called benefits (and you see no benefit from them) then WTF, might as well pull the GD plug FAIC.

I understand your frustration, really I do. But lowering taxes does nothing to help the problems your dealing with, it might make them worse. Electing leadership that puts your money to work instead of pocketing it or blowing on crack and lottery tickets is what you need. I'm not familiar with NEO infrastructure, but from the sound of it we don't have near the problem down here as you guys. That's not bragging, 'cause we do have problems, just not nearly as bad. I see our tax dollars at work and i'm happy with the results, and according to the last Mayoral election so is the vast majority of Columbus. Mike Coleman is a great mayor, I suggest viewing his Wiki page, Conservatives would probably be pretty damn happy with his record.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

To take JB's point about intellectual dishonesty a bit further, yeah we're that and pretty much hypocrites in how we raise our young to strive to be the best and be prepared in later life. Then what do we do as a society and a government, we throw out the life preservers at the first sign of rough waters. We breed this stuff, day & night. We don't let allow people to fail anymore. Nobody wants to see others fail per say but if people cannot make it and you keep saving their asses then they will never ever push themselves and turn things around.

There is little to no incentive to be accountable and do things the right way anymore. I'm not suggesting I should be rewarded for getting by the right way w/out the help of society, I am just saying to stop punishing me for doing so.

^THIS.

It's amazing that as this has become more and more of an entitlement society how few people want to acknowledge it. After all, the rich are just an everlasting font of free money to spend on whatever social program the party in charge wants to create, so why not blame them for not giving their fair share?

I really hope I don't live long enough to watch the collapse of the United States, but I think I will. Those will be interesting times, and I hope I can figure out a way to profit from them.

When the Top 5% of the country controls more money than the other 95% combined, there is something seriously wrong. And alot of those fuckers got on top by climbing on the backs of the working man. Take those Bailout CEOs, they don't deserve the money they get, it's obscene. The fact that shitheels like Bank of America and Citigroup took tax payer money and then started evicting millions of Americans from there homes while those same CEOs who caused this mess are collecting million dollar bonuses, is a fucking joke. Those fuckers should be evicted from their homes and their assets seized, they gamble peoples' lives away and they are STILL PROFITING FROM IT.


But yeah, the poor burden the rich must bear is truly heartbreaking.

[jb]

To take JB's point about intellectual dishonesty a bit further, yeah we're that and pretty much hypocrites in how we raise our young to strive to be the best and be prepared in later life. Then what do we do as a society and a government, we throw out the life preservers at the first sign of rough waters. We breed this stuff, day & night. We don't let allow people to fail anymore. Nobody wants to see others fail per say but if people cannot make it and you keep saving their asses then they will never ever push themselves and turn things around.

There is little to no incentive to be accountable and do things the right way anymore. I'm not suggesting I should be rewarded for getting by the right way w/out the help of society, I am just saying to stop punishing me for doing so.

FUDU, while I agree with much of your thoughts, have you projected yet what you are supposed to have saved now to ecure health payaments for the end of your life, providing someone on the internets' webs doesn't off you first?

It is pretty much impossible for most people, buddy.

While many indviduals are accountable, to not acknowledge systemic failure is also being intellectually dishonest.

[jb]

Roads in NEO (Cuyahoga specifically) are awful, absolutely some of the worst anywhere

And cutting taxes fixes this how? You need to demand more of your elected officals or vote them out. You do have a say in the matter, those pig fuckers work for you. I undertsand you want your taxes lowered, but you'll have to raise taxes on others to make up for the lost revenue or else your shit services will be no services.

I'd rather have to put in the time and physical effort of helping fix the damn road and bridges to be honest.

If you work a full time job you ain't repaving any roads.

. But when you see so much of your own money go out the window in the name of all these so called benefits (and you see no benefit from them) then WTF, might as well pull the GD plug FAIC.

I understand your frustration, really I do. But lowering taxes does nothing to help the problems your dealing with, it might make them worse. Electing leadership that puts your money to work instead of pocketing it or blowing on crack and lottery tickets is what you need. I'm not familiar with NEO infrastructure, but from the sound of it we don't have near the problem down here as you guys. That's not bragging, 'cause we do have problems, just not nearly as bad. I see our tax dollars at work and i'm happy with the results, and according to the last Mayoral election so is the vast majority of Columbus. Mike Coleman is a great mayor, I suggest viewing his Wiki page, Conservatives would probably be pretty damn happy with his record.

Dude, C-bus was built on the backs and upon the wallets of the rest of Ohio for decades.

The inrastructure that set up growth in this century was a gift from the rest of rusted out struggling Ohio from the last.

No OSU an dthe workforce direct and indirect benefits there from, no government aparatus jobs, no C-bus as we know it. probably is Chillocothe instead. . Dunno what it means for this discussion, but it is what oit is.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Columbus's viability is because the city never put all it's eggs in one basket economically, the collapse of big steel hurt the city, but it didn't cripple it. Columbus is where it is because of it's diverse economy, being business friendly, and having smart local leadership.

Whatever the city has taken in from the rest of Ohio is being paid back in full. It's now our backs and economy that carries the state. Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

[waborat]

Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

Sweet, you can start by coming over and mowing my lawn

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

Sweet, you can start by coming over and mowing my lawn

Do you have a riding lawn mower?

[waborat]

Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

Sweet, you can start by coming over and mowing my lawn

Do you have a riding lawn mower?

Sure do...

And some Kentucky Red

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

Sweet, you can start by coming over and mowing my lawn

Do you have a riding lawn mower?

Sure do...

And some Kentucky Red

I think I smoked that high school.

Of are you talk 'bout Red Stag Whiskey?

[jb]

Columbus's viability is because the city never put all it's eggs in one basket economically, the collapse of big steel hurt the city, but it didn't cripple it. Columbus is where it is because of it's diverse economy, being business friendly, and having smart local leadership.

Whatever the city has taken in from the rest of Ohio is being paid back in full. It's now our backs and economy that carries the state. Not complaining about that either, we should help in any way we can. I love Ohio and I want to see it do well as whole, not just my hometown.

Completely agree on the payback thing. But not so fat. let me give you an example.

The area of downtown near the old Lazerus store dies like many similar retail places in downtowns. In Cleveland, it would sit blighted and shitty, like say, the old Higbees building does. In C-bus, a massive ass new government office tsructure goes up, both replacing the private ector retail area lost and also providing thousands of people to replentish city center at lunch, so it doesn't meet the same fate as Tower Shitty.

I didn't mean to bash C-bus so much as to say don't underestimate the spin off economically of all the state government jobs and university jobs and workforce development. Other cities just don't get tha scale of opportunity.

[jfiling]

When the Top 5% of the country controls more money than the other 95% combined, there is something seriously wrong. And alot of those fuckers got on top by climbing on the backs of the working man. Take those Bailout CEOs, they don't deserve the money they get, it's obscene. The fact that shitheels like Bank of America and Citigroup took tax payer money and then started evicting millions of Americans from there homes while those same CEOs who caused this mess are collecting million dollar bonuses, is a fucking joke. Those fuckers should be evicted from their homes and their assets seized, they gamble peoples' lives away and they are STILL PROFITING FROM IT.


But yeah, the poor burden the rich must bear is truly heartbreaking.

50% of Americans pay no income tax, as of this year.. Every benefit they get in federal dollars, excepting entitlement programs, is a free fucking ride.

Here's numbers from 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays- ... taxes.html

The top 5% of income earners pay over 60% of taxes, and the bottom 50% pay less than 3% in 2007. I don't give a rat's ass about fairness, what I care about is idiots voting for whoever gives them the most goodies when they know they won't have to pay a goddamn dime to get them. I don't know who wants to live in a country where the majority will vote for increased spending because it's all those filthy rich people who will pay in the end, except that inflation is about to skyrocket because this country is writing checks its economy can't cash. Only a bona fide idiot would agree with the notion that a minority should foot the tax bill to fund every whim the moron voters who don't pay taxes want.

[FUDU]

To take JB's point about intellectual dishonesty a bit further, yeah we're that and pretty much hypocrites in how we raise our young to strive to be the best and be prepared in later life. Then what do we do as a society and a government, we throw out the life preservers at the first sign of rough waters. We breed this stuff, day & night. We don't let allow people to fail anymore. Nobody wants to see others fail per say but if people cannot make it and you keep saving their asses then they will never ever push themselves and turn things around.

There is little to no incentive to be accountable and do things the right way anymore. I'm not suggesting I should be rewarded for getting by the right way w/out the help of society, I am just saying to stop punishing me for doing so.

FUDU, while I agree with much of your thoughts, have you projected yet what you are supposed to have saved now to ecure health payaments for the end of your life, providing someone on the internets' webs doesn't off you first?

It is pretty much impossible for most people, buddy.

While many indviduals are accountable, to not acknowledge systemic failure is also being intellectually dishonest.

Outside of funeral/burial, no haven't tried to do so w/accuracy, damn near impossible for two reasons, I'm under 40....dad, and I'm a human being. I do have a strategy set aside for future HC with HSA and other conservative retirement savings. In the end the best anyone can do is live a healthy life. I believe I do and continue to keep that a priority for the most part.

But to the point of all this talk, nobody and I mean nobody can save what we are projected to need for the future with all this taxation going on now. Wages simply lag too far behind everything else we are accountable to. Call it greed, I won't disagree, but it is what it is.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

nm. Fuck it.


That link you had, J, is pretty hilarious though. Their plan is truly something to behold.

Why NTU Supports the FairTax:

The Fair Tax Act would promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Legislative Status:

The FairTax has been reintroduced for the 111th Congress. It is H.R. 25 in the House and S. 296 in the Senate. NTU has endorsed the FairTax since 1998 and continues to work for its adoption.

Benefits of the FairTax:

The FairTax plan brings fairness, transparency, and efficiency to our unfair, complex, and confusing Tax Code.

The FairTax rewards job creation, hard work, and individual responsibility. By doing away with payroll taxes, companies can afford to hire more employees and outsourcing looks less attractive. By taxing consumption instead of income, individuals are provided with a strong incentive to work hard because they keep more of what they earn. By taxing spending, the FairTax allows us to control how much tax we pay depending on our individual lifestyle choices.

The FairTax ensures that all Americans pay their fair share of taxes. The IRS currently admits to a 25 percent non-compliance rate with the Tax Code, often done unintentionally. By placing the tax at the point of sale, no individual or special interest group could evade taxes with the help of an expensive tax attorney or well-heeled lobbyist. Furthermore, we could stop making criminals out of ordinary Americans who prepare their tax returns incorrectly by mistake.

How the Plan Works:

The FairTax proposal is a comprehensive revenue plan that would eliminate most major federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. On payday, every American would receive 100 percent of his or her paycheck, minus any state income taxes.

These federal taxes would be replaced by a national retail sales tax. Under the FairTax, the national sales tax rate initially would be 23 percent, with adjustments made to the rate in subsequent years.

The FairTax is progressive. To make this system fair for low-income Americans, all taxpayers would receive a monthly "prebate," so no one would pay taxes for consumption up to the poverty line.

The national retail tax would only be collected on new purchases, making "used" purchases tax-free. Additionally, business purchases would be exempt from the tax, thereby eradicating corporate tax compliance costs currently hidden in retail prices.

If put into practice the same people you piss and moan about getting a "free ride", would STILL get one.

[jfiling]

CDT, if you had something you edited to delete, I'd love to see it, either here or in PM.

And by linking to the facts posted by the NTU I wasn't endorsing their version of the Fair Tax, even though at least that is far more transparent than the current system. I'm waiting, probably in vain, for someone to explain how a system where the minority who pays taxes can be outvoted by the majority who does not, which is where we are heading.

How can an economy be sustainable at that point? Do the rich merely keep their wealth at the whim of those who don't pay taxes? Is that in any way fair, or even smart?

[Fire Marshall Bill]

The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money.

Its one thing to be compassionate, quite another to fund the lazy and the corrupt and at what point is enuff enuff?

The TP movement isn't just about health care and taxes, its about corrupt theiving politicians and their lackeys run amok

....if you're only 28 I suppose you've yet to give enuff cuz like Winston Churchill said, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 40 you have no brain"

Getting back on thread, teachers work part time and retire at 55. Maybe ya'll should direct your anger to the NEA for starters

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Is that in any way fair, or even smart?

I don't give a rat's ass about fairness

Ok.

The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money.

Margaret Thatcher, right?

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Margaret Thatcher, right?

Bumper sticker

[motherscratcher]

The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money.

Its one thing to be compassionate, quite another to fund the lazy and the corrupt and at what point is enuff enuff?

The TP movement isn't just about health care and taxes, its about corrupt theiving politicians and their lackeys run amok

....if you're only 28 I suppose you've yet to give enuff cuz like Winston Churchill said, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 40 you have no brain"

Getting back on thread, teachers work part time and retire at 55. Maybe ya'll should direct your anger to the NEA for starters

I'm liberal (it's OK, I'm not 40 yet) but I agree with a lot of what you say here. I would just like to add that the Toilet Paper movement is less about "corrupt theiving politicians and their lackeys run amok" than it is about a bunch of rich white people pissed off about maybe having less money than they used to. And that's all they're about. If they were about anything else then they would be pissed about ALL of the "corrupt theiving politicians and their lackeys run amok", not just the democrats.

Also, dude, why start in on the teachers? The problem is not the teachers.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

If you think the teachers union is not a high value target then I don't know what to say other than I've put 3 sons thru 2 school districts and 11 different schools and value my opinion of teachers and school boards above all others...

They are no longer educators but political hacks. Lazy, entitilement addicted and overpaid for the hrs they put in. They consider themselves professionls and CEO's but they are not...they are not held to the same standards of success and failure like in the real world. Sorry who this offends but, its my opinion, I'll stick to it forever and I'll not argue or try and convince anyone to see things my way....hope it helps

As for a detailed boarding list of everyone on the TP Train, I don't know and I don't really give a rats ass. I'm not going to judge their intent like some people insist on doing for political talking points on message boards and political rallys....

...I'm all about the protesting against government spending. Period. The details are semantics

Every year I go to DC and take part in the largest, longest running protest in American history on Memorial weekend. The only reason I hold back giving the finger to the Capitol building qwhen I pass is that the peeps lining the streets might think I gave it to them

Every November I go to DC and get to meet Senatorial lackeys and be a part of an 8,000 member group fighting for Veterans rights

Protesting....it makes America great!

As for the politicians...

Kill 'em all. Let Satan sort 'em out, cuz they're all theiving lying pigs

...and I've been in Robert Byrds office as well as others. It only takes a few steps down the hall to come to the conclusion that this is one ancient POS that needs to fucking die

[motherscratcher]

As for the politicians...

Kill 'em all. Let Satan sort 'em out, cuz they're all theiving lying pigs

Fuckin' A

I'll just say this about teachers because I know I won't change your mind about anything. Both of my parents are teachers. Both are good people. Both work very hard. Both have worked well past 55. And both are very good at what they do.

I'm not sure how my father, for example, could have been overpaid for the hours he put in considering the fact that he was working all of the damn time. And if it wasn't teaching or grading papers it was coaching or a thousand other little things that needed to be done. We lived at that school. And he hauled in so much loot in his high paying job that in the summers he got up and went to work as a carpenter to help make ends meet. My dad is a lot of things but lazy and entitled sure as shit aren't two of them.

I'm not saying that there aren't problems with some teachers or the teachers union or the way things are run in our schools. There are problems with any large organization. I'm just saying don't lump a bunch of people together and call all of them overpaid, lazy, and entitled...because that's bullshit and you should know it.

[Ziner]

I'm just saying don't lump a bunch of people together and call all of them overpaid, lazy, and entitled...because that's bullshit and you should know it.

Its not always bullshit

[motherscratcher]

I'm just saying don't lump a bunch of people together and call all of them overpaid, lazy, and entitled...because that's bullshit and you should know it.

Its not always bullshit

You got me there. Can't argue with that!

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I just want to know where the Tea Party folks where from 2003-2008.

[Ziner]

I just want to know where the Tea Party folks where from 2003-2008.

Probably the same place the war protesters are hanging out now.