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12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

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12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:42 pm

George Peterson, the manager and trainer of Paul Williams joined us tonight.
He called in around the 15 minute mark.
He said he doesnt think the Pavlik fight will ever happen.
Check it out:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/theclevela ... fight-fans
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:42 pm

Well done, as always. You and JGreen have that show down to a T.

All Williams people are under mandate right now to say that Williams/Pavlik will never happen, as there is still (understandably) a lot of frustration over Pavlik pulling out of the fight. It cost Williams a million dollars.

The most telling part of that whole interview was when you guys asked him if there were any other fights or fighters on their radar. He couldn't name one name. There is nothing out there for them, 'cept maybe a rematch with Martinez ... which is dangerous, and won't pay a lot - a bad combo.

Slappy Paul needs Pavlik a lot more than Pavlik needs Slappy Paul. No one at 147 will fight him. There's no money to be made at 154. His own trainer couldn't even name one guy that may be a possibility for them.

Kelly has the belts, the drawing power, the HBO connection and following. No matter what they want to say, Pavlik wasn't faking any injury. There's photos, documented medical records that prove the severity of the staph infection. If there's anything to blame the Pavlik camp for, it's for them setting unrealistic initial fight dates in November, then December 5th. Given the severity of the injury, the unpredictable recovery time on staph infections, they just should have been realistic from the get go and set the fight for early January. By the time they were forced to propose that, Williams's people were so angered by another re-schedule, they just said screw it.

Williams can do one of two things.

Swallow his pride and make this fight happen.

Or continue to listen to his asshole promoter, keep crying about Kelly ducking him, and go fight some no name bum for next to no money.

If I'm Arum, I give Williams till Jan 15th to make this fight, taking less than 50%. They pass, I move on to Felix Sturm on Jan 16 and start working towards making that fight happen sometime in March on HBO. For Sturm, it will be a massive payday, prolly 4-5x higher than anything he's gotten before. And a chance to grab all the middleweight belts and earn himself a slew of more high paying fights on HBO.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:33 pm

I agree with a lot of your points but there isn't that many options for Kelly either.
Sturm is a guy who probably won't come to the US and has has visa issues in the past.
Pavlik needs to stay at 160, we saw what happened when he moved up.
This fight makes a ton of sense, they had a deal in place, use that same deal and let's go.
If it were only that simple.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:53 pm

I agree wholeheartedly that Kelly needs to stay at 160. To me, Sat night, he looked a little doughy cause of the short camp. He wasn't in top shape. I don't see Pavlik ever having a hard time making 160, especially when he gets back to his normal, longer, more grueling camps.

My fear is that Kelly will get bored at 160 and move up. 168 is loaded now. I think that would be a mistake. The same way I feel Williams is a much more dangerous fighter in the 147-154 area, I feel the same way about Kelly at 160 vs. 168. He has devastating power for a middle. He moves up, he loses that advantage. I know 160 has some real rising stars in the division, with Danny Jacobs being at the top of that list. I hope they develop before Kelly gets bored at the weight. A fight with Williams there, one with Sturm maybe, that would help buy some time. Cause 160 is barren at the top right now with Abraham moving up.

If Sturm can't come to the US, Kelly can still go there. I still think he ends up coming here to Vegas or AC for a fight with Kelly ... the same way these guys like Abraham and Froch started to come over at similar points in their careers.

Pavlik's options are not robust either right now, especially if he stays at 160. But they still are better that Williams's. Pavlik is in the catbird's seat in negotiations.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:17 pm

I look for a 50/50 split or it doesn't go down at all.
Williams is a top 10 pound for pound guy and was just in a fight of the year canidate with another top fighter in Martinez.
Pavlik has fought two average at best guys in the last year. I know it was a tuneup but you mentioned drawing power, he sold 3,700 tickets (maybe) in his own backyard.
If the fight is as good as I think it will be, it will turn into a win win for both guys.
Sturm has avoided big fights and the US for years.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 pm

FightDr wrote:I look for a 50/50 split or it doesn't go down at all.

Then it's not going to go down. Pavlik brings much more money, viewers, and the belts to the table. Williams asking for 50% is tantamount to saying he's not willing to fight Kelly. The initial deal had Kelly making more money (60%?), and there is no reason he should settle for less because he had to postpone the fight because of a legitimate staph infection.
FightDr wrote:Williams is a top 10 pound for pound guy and was just in a fight of the year canidate with another top fighter in Martinez.
Pavlik has fought two average at best guys in the last year. I know it was a tuneup but you mentioned drawing power, he sold 3,700 tickets (maybe) in his own backyard.
If the fight is as good as I think it will be, it will turn into a win win for both guys.

Pavlik's local popularity took a little hit this year because of all the internet misinformation you've linked in this forum, all (or the vast majority) of which is untrue. The fight was also put together last second, at prices that I think were higher than for the Rubio fight. Pavlik has recently had a chance to get the truth out there in some interviews, also in the ring after Saturday's win. I would argue that after this recent win, his drawing power is back up to where it was for the Rubio fight, and a win over Williams would vault it even past the levels it was at coming off the two Taylor wins.

FightDr wrote:Sturm has avoided big fights and the US for years.

All these 160-168 Euros (Calzaghe, Abraham, Froch, Kessler) hid overseas and fought nobodies for years before seeing the light and coming to America to fight. It's shit or get off the pot time for Sturm. I'd be shocked if he was not interested in the millions of viewers and dollars that a fight with Pavlik in AC would bring him ... and the future earning potential of winning the belts.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:41 pm

You know all that info is untrue how again?

Sturm has 1 fight I think in the US and he was robbed against a fat Oscar De La Hoya, I doubt he'd come over here for Kelly. I don't see Kelly going there either.
Kelly's win over Espino brought his drawing power back? Really? The Ghost really is back I guess.

Like I have said before, Kelly is great for the sport and I hope he's healthy and stays that way. With all the shit talking going on, Williams and Kelly need to get in the ring together and very soon.

Both guys will look bad if it doesn'tgo down

Williams has the chance at a rematch with Martinez, which again is a fight of the year canidate.
Pavlik has Sturm? Maybe? And nobody else.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:51 pm

You know all that info is untrue how again?

They were all unfounded rumors. Pavlik is in alcohol rehab. False. Pavlik was faking the injury. False again. Not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise. When you have baseless rumors like that, it is on the accuser to provide the burden of proof. No one's been able to do that. If Kelly was in rehab, or really had no major staph injury, it would have come out. It didn't.

Kelly's win over Espino brought his drawing power back? Really? The Ghost really is back I guess.

All I said was that his drawing power is now back to where it was at the Rubio fight. Obviously still not back to post-Taylor win levels. You disagree with that?

Williams has the chance at a rematch with Martinez, which again is a fight of the year canidate.

You know as well as I do that Williams doesn't want that fight. His own trainer didn't even mention it as a possibility on your show. And talked about what a bad stylistic fight it was for Paul. And HBO paid them dog shit for it. Maybe the rematch pays a little better, but nowhere near what he gets paid for a Pavlik fight.

There's no question about the fact Kelly is in a better negotiating position, even with his star power diminished a little. He brings more viewers and the belts to the table. It's really that simple.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:01 pm

I just see how a win over Espino really helps his drawing power. A nice tune up fight but against a mid level guy who he should have destroyed. Rubio had a much better resume and reputation. People are talking about Kelly again because he finally fought so if that's drawing power you're talking about, then it's up.

Let's cut out all of the bullshit here, Williams and Pavlik are both top level guys who need each other.
This fight needs to go down. They don't like each other. Their camps are talking a ton of shit. It's a slap in the face to boxing fans if it doesn't happen.

I also think Williams has a lot more options because he can fight at 147 154 or 160. Belts really don't mean as much as people think nowadays as several guys are bouncing around different weight classes. The best fights are what counts and to me and a lot of others, Pavlik vs Williams is no doubt the best fight for both guys.

Sign the f-ing contract.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby swerb » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:15 pm

I agree. Cut out the bull shit. Have Williams sign the same contract that was out there for their previous fight. Arum already said Kelly was ready to do it.

It's on them. If they want to change the terms of the original fight, Top Rank and Kelly isn't going to go for it, nor should they.

Lets get this fight on. Just waiting on Slappy Paul's signature. Deal is already out there from the fight that was supposed to happen Dec 5.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby bustedknuckles » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Couple random observations about topic...

* If a Pacquiao/Mayweather fight can be hammered out then I would think Pavlik/Williams will also get done. I would think a 55/45 split to the winner or something along those lines.

* The announced ticket sales for Pavlik/Espino as far as paid tickets was less than 3,000...I've heard there were a lot of comps for this fight vs. very few for Rubio.

* Ticket prices were essentially identical for Espino and Rubio fights as both were Top Rank events.

* While the ticket prices could've and probably should've been reduced to intice a larger turnout, I believe the biggest factor was the date of the fight. Competing with Christmas (shopping/parties/travel) is what it came down to and that is absolutely the reason I didn't attend. Did a Pavlik/Christmas party with friends and watched the PPV (which was a solid PPV IMO). Not to mention they were competing with another popular event in Ytown last weekend in Disney on Ice, which even though is a family event, it took a lot of dads out of the picture.

* As far as the #1 Pavlik fight I want to see it is not Paul Williams, rather Arthur Abraham...that is the fight that will have $ trees growing in Pavlikland for a long time, especially if AA wins the Super 6. That fight can happen at 160, catchweight, or 168

* As far as Kelly moving up in weight classes, from what I've heard it is happening 1-2 fights from now. Keep in mind that Kelly's best performance (not fight) was the rematch against Taylor and that was at catchweight (164)...could see Abraham going down that way too.
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Re: 12/21 The Fight Fans with Paul Williams' Manager/Trainer

Unread postby Guest » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Abraham is tied up for awhile so that fight won't happen in 2010 or 2011 either.
If Pavlik keeps winning, and Abraham wins the Super 6 (or finishes behind Ward in 2nd) that could be a blockbuster.

If Williams wants to stake claim to fighting anyone like his camp/team say, then he would take 40% and know his bigger paydays will come if (and when) he beats Pavlik.

Mayweather Pac is a totally different ball game. Those dudes are going to make 40 to 50 mil when its said and done.
Williams is probably hoping for 1 to 2 mil.
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