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Ref Scandal Expands?

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Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Jumbo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:59 pm

Interesting story today: the gambler involved with Tim Donaghy says that there were 13 referees involved.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/sports/BO130486/

When the scandal broke in June of 2008, NBA commissioner David Stern called Donaghy a "rogue, isolated criminal."

The source tells 7Sports that Battista says he had a "Big-5" of dependable referees with Tim Donaghy being the "King" as Battista called him, who the gambler says delivered a winning bet 78 percent of the time in games he officiated.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby swerb » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:18 pm

78%? That's damn near Lead Pipe territory.

Guy is gonna get that book published yet.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:21 pm

One person drops any inkling of proof and I'll care and TD will get his book published, until then we still have a shit ton of talk w/ absolutely no indication said talk is even in the ball park of true.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:28 pm

Swerb wrote:78%? That's damn near Lead Pipe territory.


If any wagerer was hitting at that clip, he would be living in Dubai and not NE Ohio. The Lead Man is legendary though.

Back to the NBA, the lid is going to blow on this, only a matter of time. Games are "fixed" every night in every sport IMO.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Cease » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:48 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:One person drops any inkling of proof and I'll care and TD will get his book published, until then we still have a shit ton of talk w/ absolutely no indication said talk is even in the ball park of true.


The feds only looked at like 16 games in the TD case and the NBA wants nothing to due with flushing out the truth, so it's just going to be open ended speculation, complete with books, IMO.

I believe most of it. Refs in bed with gamblers, games hedged (if not thrown) by refs for the sake of league ratings and playoff matchups. The whole crooked sport. I don't expect Stern to do anything publicly about it, but I would assume it'll dry up for a while. Just too hot right now for the con men.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:53 pm

Cease wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:One person drops any inkling of proof and I'll care and TD will get his book published, until then we still have a shit ton of talk w/ absolutely no indication said talk is even in the ball park of true.


The feds only looked at like 16 games in the TD case and the NBA wants nothing to due with flushing out the truth, so it's just going to be open ended speculation, complete with books, IMO.

I believe most of it. Refs in bed with gamblers, games hedged (if not thrown) by refs for the sake of league ratings and playoff matchups. The whole crooked sport. I don't expect Stern to do anything publicly about it, but I would assume it'll dry up for a while. Just too hot right now for the con men.


You do realize that there is no substance to anything that TD says in his book and this has been proven all over the internet already, right? See the thread on the book and the against the spread records for AI when compared to the bull crap TD dropped on said issue.

Feds and tNBA have no control over whatever proof these gamblers should have somewhere to back this up or TD himself. Fuck, even just phone records would blow this thing open. Thus far we have nothing but rambling coming from people w/ a lot to gain by pushing shit.

One fact lines up, just one and things will change. And considering how big these asshats are alleging this thing is producing one fact w/ proof should not be all that hard to do. Especially for TD who would make more money than Geezes Canseco if he could prove his incoherent and undetailed ramblings in his book were at least true.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Jumbo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:04 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Feds and tNBA have no control over whatever proof these gamblers should have somewhere to back this up or TD himself. Fuck, even just phone records would blow this thing open. Thus far we have nothing but rambling coming from people w/ a lot to gain by pushing shit.


I'm not saying you can trust a gambler who just pled guilty to conspiracy, but the report claims that the guy has phone records.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby swerb » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:08 pm

Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:18 pm

Swerb wrote:Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.


Toledo is still sorting through one such scandal that came to a head a couple years back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4146980
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:22 pm

Watch Game 4 of the Heat-Mavs Finals and, in particular, Wade and the calls he gets.

That's just one of many glaring examples I would have of referrees being less than honest in their craft.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Cease » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:25 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Cease wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:One person drops any inkling of proof and I'll care and TD will get his book published, until then we still have a shit ton of talk w/ absolutely no indication said talk is even in the ball park of true.


The feds only looked at like 16 games in the TD case and the NBA wants nothing to due with flushing out the truth, so it's just going to be open ended speculation, complete with books, IMO.

I believe most of it. Refs in bed with gamblers, games hedged (if not thrown) by refs for the sake of league ratings and playoff matchups. The whole crooked sport. I don't expect Stern to do anything publicly about it, but I would assume it'll dry up for a while. Just too hot right now for the con men.


You do realize that there is no substance to anything that TD says in his book and this has been proven all over the internet already, right?


Sorry to edit your whole reply, I just wanted to state that I believe there is substance to what TD is saying if not in the statistical detail but the participation of referees in corruption of the NBA outcomes.

When I say I believe most of "it," I'm not saying I believe each detail published. So yeah- that's a weak thing for me to say. I will say that I believe that game fixing and point shaving occurred in the NBA over the last 10 years and it had ties to gamblers and league higher-ups. Can I prove it? No. Can anyone? Prob not. Does that mean it didn't happen?

I am not buying everything in this book. But where there's smoke, there's usually a fire.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:49 pm

Games are fixed, night in and night out. Just a question of who, what, why, where, when, and how. It's been a huge problem swept under the rug, should be good theatre to watch how it's handled by King Stern.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:33 pm

Swerb wrote:Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.


There is something to the over/unders. The big time professional NBA gamblers are almost universally on the totals. Awful hard to find a consistent winner with NBA sides because, well, that person pretty much doesn't exist.

There are professionals that do well on the collegiate sides, especially with small conference play.

Kinda fits right in.

I would clarify to those that point to a game being fixed, it's probably not the high profile games people always point to.

Used to work with a guy who claimed the Super Bowl was fixed. I started to get into the reasons this would be unreasonable, including the fact that it would cost so much more than a regular game to accomplish, your profits would be reduced......then I realized that I was reasoning with a bad, degenerate gambler. And, as a rule, bad degenerate gamblers, like losing internet poker players, believe EVERYTHING is rigged.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Juannieboy » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:18 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
Swerb wrote:Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.


There is something to the over/unders. The big time professional NBA gamblers are almost universally on the totals. Awful hard to find a consistent winner with NBA sides because, well, that person pretty much doesn't exist.

There are professionals that do well on the collegiate sides, especially with small conference play.

Kinda fits right in.

I would clarify to those that point to a game being fixed, it's probably not the high profile games people always point to.

Used to work with a guy who claimed the Super Bowl was fixed. I started to get into the reasons this would be unreasonable, including the fact that it would cost so much more than a regular game to accomplish, your profits would be reduced......then I realized that I was reasoning with a bad, degenerate gambler. And, as a rule, bad degenerate gamblers, like losing internet poker players, believe EVERYTHING is rigged.


I think anybody that has an I.Q not under two standard deviations understands how internet poker can be rigged by serveral players if not the game operators themselves.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:09 pm

Most games "fixed" at the collegiate level are typically in your lower profile conferences such as the MAC, knew a guy who would hit a MAC game each week, only game he would play all weekend and he always said he had info. nobody else had, works today in the gambling industry and he's certainly not poor.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:23 pm

I don't buy all this TD stuff being debunked at all. What does TD have to lose anymore, nothing, certainly little to gain by making this up.

I believe, as with many things in life, there is plenty of truth to go with plenty of half truths and no truths.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:10 am

FUDU wrote:I don't buy all this TD stuff being debunked at all. What does TD have to lose anymore, nothing, certainly little to gain by making this up.

I believe, as with many things in life, there is plenty of truth to go with plenty of half truths and no truths.


Potential tip of iceberg and that's why NBA is spinning this as him being on his own and not something done with a group of guys. It's fishy just not sure anyone's going to go casting in the NBA pool.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:10 pm

Thanks to David Stern for tainting the game of basketball. He knew what was going on and he got a lot of money. I would love to see Stern go to jail, along with the other "rogue" refs.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:25 am

Juannieboy wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Swerb wrote:Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.


There is something to the over/unders. The big time professional NBA gamblers are almost universally on the totals. Awful hard to find a consistent winner with NBA sides because, well, that person pretty much doesn't exist.

There are professionals that do well on the collegiate sides, especially with small conference play.

Kinda fits right in.

I would clarify to those that point to a game being fixed, it's probably not the high profile games people always point to.

Used to work with a guy who claimed the Super Bowl was fixed. I started to get into the reasons this would be unreasonable, including the fact that it would cost so much more than a regular game to accomplish, your profits would be reduced......then I realized that I was reasoning with a bad, degenerate gambler. And, as a rule, bad degenerate gamblers, like losing internet poker players, believe EVERYTHING is rigged.


I think anybody that has an I.Q not under two standard deviations understands how internet poker can be rigged by serveral players if not the game operators themselves.


And someone with an IQ under three standard deviations should know the difference between collusion, and the site being rigged.

To the point, the guys I hear crying all the time are losing players, playing well below a limit that is going to be bothered by a cheat.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon May 10, 2010 12:32 pm

For those of you that get your nut off to whining here is your chance to have a fucktastic night.

http://northstationsports.com/uncategor ... s-tonight/
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon May 10, 2010 2:27 pm

The NBA is probably still fixed. That wouldn't surprise me at all with a awful little toad like Stern running the show. The 1 rogue ref theory carries no weight because logic dictates others would have to know for him to be able to fix games.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Tue May 11, 2010 1:14 pm

All it takes is one guy. Most people scoff at the notion that it doesn't happen in pro sports. I think it is happening.

I don't think Donaghy has necessarily spoken truths but there was a comment made about how Boston won't win the series because the league can't afford for them to do so, and then you see:

Free throws in the series
CLE: 142 BOS: 108

Fouls called against

CLE: 84 BOS: 109

Of course, teams do foul more than others and it can be this far apart on how things are called but........always interesting to look at, just my two cents
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby RedDawg » Tue May 11, 2010 1:19 pm

fundamentals wrote:All it takes is one guy. Most people scoff at the notion that it doesn't happen in pro sports. It is happening. Believe it.

I don't think Donaghy has necessarily spoken truths but there was a comment made about how Boston won't win the series because the league can't afford for them to do so, and then you see

Free throws in the series
CLE: 142 BOS: 108

Fouls called against

CLE: 84 BOS: 109


Conspiracy my ass.

If we traded Rondo for LeBron straight up the stats would be exactly opposite. Rondo goes around people and beats them to the basket. LeBron goes by and through people to the basket.

We've seen LeBron not get some calls in this series that he definitely would if they were rigging it. I think the refs are letting a lot of contact fouls in the paint go.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed May 12, 2010 7:58 am

RedDawg wrote:
Conspiracy my ass.

If we traded Rondo for LeBron straight up the stats would be exactly opposite. Rondo goes around people and beats them to the basket. LeBron goes by and through people to the basket.

We've seen LeBron not get some calls in this series that he definitely would if they were rigging it. I think the refs are letting a lot of contact fouls in the paint go.


Really? Funny now all I here about is how the Cavaliers are getting jobbed badly by the refs and yet Boston was crippled again last night with horrible foul trouble. Weird.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby RedDawg » Wed May 12, 2010 10:24 am

Bitching about the refs is usual ploy for the weak of heart. I don't think they are getting jobbed badly. I do think that LeBron is not getting the benefit of the doubt many times, but until he starts playing like a superstar, maybe he doesn't deserve those calls.

Boston is in controlled foul trouble every game. It's a conscious decision to foul Shaq down low, and LeBron on the break or before he shoots. It's great coaching. Notice not one of Boston's guys have fouled out in five games. If we could actually put up points when their bigs got sit with early fouls, it would matter.

We get excited that Sheed, then Perkins have 3 fouls in the second quarter but they put in Davis and don't miss a beat. His athleticism has given us more problems than Sheed's game.

It ain't the refs.
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Re: Ref Scandal Expands?

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed May 12, 2010 10:35 am

swerb wrote:Basketball is by far the easiet sport to fix, and I absolutely believe crooked officials could produce 80% winners without even drawing much suspicion. Especially on over/unders. Why you see so many of the online books with over/unders off the board or circled.

Where I believe fixing is the most rampant ... is the smaller DI college hoops games. MAC level and below. Refs make less. Kids make nothing. Games are lined by every major book. And with all the online books these days, you can place a $500 wager at 20 different places ... as to not draw the suspicion you would draw by walking into the old Stardust and putting $100,000 on Bumfuck State/Slippery Rock under 154.


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