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WTF? Taser edition.

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WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:13 pm

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... aser1.html

NOVEMBER 18--An Arkansas cop tasered an unruly 10-year-old girl after her mother called police to report that the child was crying, screaming, and refusing to go to bed. The tased girl, Kiara Medlock, is about 65 pounds and 4' 6", according to her father. Anthony Medlock, a truck driver who does not live with the fifth grader and her mother, provided TSG with a recent photo of his daughter, which can be seen at right. According to the below Ozark Police Department report, when Officer Dustin Bradshaw arrived at the residence last Thursday, he found the girl "screaming, kicking, and resisting every time her mother tried to touch her." Bradshaw added that, "Her mother told me to tase her if I needed to." After Kiara continued to refuse her mother's instructions, the cop concluded that "there was not going to be a peaceful resolution of the issue." Bradshaw warned the girl that she was "going to jail," but the child continued kicking and crying and resisted his attempt to handcuff her. During the tussle, Kiara "struck me with her legs and feet in the groin, reported Bradshaw, who countered with a brief "stun to her back" with his Taser. The child, not surprisingly, "immediately stopped resisting and was placed into handcuffs. She would not walk on her own and I had to carry her to my police car." Kiara was then transported to a youth shelter.


Um, what?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:16 pm

.....................And I suppose you have a problem with this?????????
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:32 am

dem425 wrote:.....................And I suppose you have a problem with this?????????


Meh... it's his MO.

PM me when he makes a thread about a taser being used properly or a cop doing his job.

That'll be news.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:43 am

Girl is just lucky Mike Forbes didn't show up to the house.

Start at 0:40 (its the best I could find)
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby TIMMAH » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:43 pm

Does this mean I can taser my 7 year old? He never listens.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:37 pm

TIMMAH wrote:Does this mean I can taser my 7 year old? He never listens.


That's not all that suprising.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:29 pm

dem425 wrote:.....................And I suppose you have a problem with this?????????

With one thing in particular: The mom gave the officer permission to tase her 65 lb. daughter. I think that is even more egregious than the officer, who has been suspended with pay (and the department has stated that he followed correct taser procedure if not discretion). If my mother told an officer when I was 10 that it was all right to tase me I think that would color how I looked at her for the rest of my life.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:38 pm

A ten year old, who has no resepect for a police officer, and had a mother that would encourage a tasing....has absolutely no chance.

We'll be either paying for her or ducking from her somewhere down the line.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jb » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:16 pm

Bet she doesn't miss bed time again.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:32 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:A ten year old, who has no resepect for a police officer, and had a mother that would encourage a tasing....has absolutely no chance.

We'll be either paying for her or ducking from her somewhere down the line.

Did you actually just suggest a ten year old has no respect for an LEO b/c she didn't go the bed when the LEO told her to?

WTF.

First off why were the police there again, somebody explain it to me like I'm a six year old please. Kid doesn't want to go to bed so call the police, mmm OK.

Second threatening a crying 10 yr old with jail time? Love to see the charge on that one.

The mom and cop were both completely wrong on this one.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:15 pm

FUDU wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:A ten year old, who has no resepect for a police officer, and had a mother that would encourage a tasing....has absolutely no chance.

We'll be either paying for her or ducking from her somewhere down the line.

Did you actually just suggest a ten year old has no respect for an LEO b/c she didn't go the bed when the LEO told her to?

WTF.

First off why were the police there again, somebody explain it to me like I'm a six year old please. Kid doesn't want to go to bed so call the police, mmm OK.

Second threatening a crying 10 yr old with jail time? Love to see the charge on that one.

The mom and cop were both completely wrong on this one.


I'm suggesting that when you kick a police officer, and disobey his orders, yes you are disrespecting them.

As I said, considering what happened, I'm not suprised.

In a nutshell, my whole point was, if, as a ten year old you aren't doing what an officer tells you, there's a hell of a good chance you ain't going to at 15...at 20...or whatever number you get to before you're in the can for good.

And you're half right. The Mom was wrong on this one, but she started being wrong about 8 yearas ago, when teaching her daughter how to, typing slowly....this is key.... when teaching her daughter how to BE-HAVE.

Another tasing incident easily avoided if you BE-HAVE.

Lead Boy didn't get tasered at 10. Guess why?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:21 pm

Neither did a young FUDU, partly b/c there would have been a dead cop courtesy of uncle FUDU or even momma FUDU.

Context is all I ask for in these situations and from those of us reading it after the fact. If a 10 yr old has someone's life in their hand (regardless of how) then a taser could/would be a viable resolution. If a 10 yr old is being a ten yr old or even being a 3 yr old a taser is not required nor justified.

We talkin about a 10 yr.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:50 pm

The proper thing would have been to tase the mother first and ask her if she thought it would work on the daughter.........


LP: as usual, bra, you are dead on!.........

For Adults-
How do I not get a ticket?....................Don't break the law
How do I not get arrested?...................Don't break the law
How do I get along in society?...............Practice what you were taught in kindergarten

For Kids-
What was I taught in kindergarten?...............Treat people as you want to be treated and BEHAVE!
How do I avoid an ass-whuppin?...................Respect others and BEHAVE!

...........and for FUDU:
I'm sure Uncle FUDU and Momma FUDU would have never called the cops on you when you misbehaved!
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:39 pm

You're right, no one has ever been arrested without breaking the law.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:58 pm

The disconnect between a taser and a 10 year old never ceases to amaze me.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:24 pm

Maybe you guys need to look at the byline. It's Arkansas.

Any y'all ever been to Arkansas?

I've been to Arkansas a number of times.

I'm in favor of more tasering down there.

Maybe some more Planned Parenthood clinics as well.

Air lift in some soap too.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:45 pm

aoxo1 wrote:You're right, no one has ever been arrested without breaking the law.


Has there ever been a ten year old tased that did what the officer told them to do?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:38 am

You're right Lead, any time you don't immediately comply with an officer that is grounds for being tortured into submission.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:59 am

Lead Pipe wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:You're right, no one has ever been arrested without breaking the law.


Has there ever been a ten year old tased that did what the officer told them to do?

::doh::
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby General » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:41 am

I grew up in a Sicilian household where any adult family member could hand out discipline. I would have welcomed a tasing, it would have been a relief.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:33 am

Halloween is the #1 favorite holiday in Arkansas..........................know why?





They get to Pump-kin!
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:47 am

aoxo1 wrote:You're right Lead, any time you don't immediately comply with an officer that is grounds for being tortured into submission.


Show me the tasing case where this is the case and I'm in your corner.

That's my whole point. In all these cases, even the ones involving 10 year olds and those with disabilities, (which is a main reason it's a big story) it's the same song and dance. No, the cops don't barge in tasering away. They are dealing with someone that doesn't know how to behave. And you can stretch that to mean that they should be dropping down on there knees, fellating the officer as they come thru the door, but you know better.

Take the tasing away for a second. A fucking 10 year old that already has Z-E-R-O respect for a police officer. Who do you think she has respect for? In the words of Jimmy the Gent, What's the world coming to?

These tasing are always the RESULT. Somebody being a jack-off is the CAUSE.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:59 pm

::doh::
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Doc » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:42 pm

I'm with Lead. Sucks that she was 10, but an act like that little girl put on isn't the result of mommy not buying her a toy at the store that day. That's a build up of years of bad parenting. 10 years old puts her in 4th/5th grade. I knew damn well not to disobey a police officer at that age. And I sure as hell wouldn't have kicked a cop in the dick. It shouldn't have come down to the officer being there anyways. That is a bad mom that can't take care of her kid. Shouldn't have needed law enforcement, because she's fucking 10. But, cops get called, and dude gets kicked in the dick. I'd stun my mom if she tried to kick me in the dick.

Anyways, I blame it on mom. Either bad parenting causing the girl to act like that to begin with, or unnecessarily involving law enforcement. Or both.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:50 pm

The part where is says "a 10 year old kid" ends the entire discussion.
Last edited by FUDU on Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:56 pm

Show you one where that is the case? OK, how about the one that prompted this post? That girl did something deserving of being tasered? That cop was in physical danger? You seem to have no issue with tasering if someone did anything remotely wrong, even if it is completely unnecessary? I was under the impression tasers were supposed to be used as an alternative to deadly force or billy clubs. If this cop hadn't had a taser, would a billy club have been appropriate to bring this obviously terrifying threat under control?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:07 pm

Am I the only one who read the entire link, including the police report in the link?

"The girl was resisting arrest"....really? She was under arrest for what charge, Mr. police officer?

Plus again, as aoxo has already made mention of, where was the threat of danger that calls for the last resort of a taser?

IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:58 pm

FUDU wrote:Am I the only one who read the entire link, including the police report in the link?

"The girl was resisting arrest"....really? She was under arrest for what charge, Mr. police officer?

Plus again, as aoxo has already made mention of, where was the threat of danger that calls for the last resort of a taser?

IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close.


Can a 10 year old not be arrested? Honest question... I thought a gun was the last resort, and the taser was a step before the last resort? He hurts the poor little kid while arresting her, and we hear how the big burly cop needs to know he is dealing with a ten year-old.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:10 pm

Orenthal wrote:
FUDU wrote:Am I the only one who read the entire link, including the police report in the link?

"The girl was resisting arrest"....really? She was under arrest for what charge, Mr. police officer?

Plus again, as aoxo has already made mention of, where was the threat of danger that calls for the last resort of a taser?

IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close.


Can a 10 year old not be arrested? Honest question... I thought a gun was the last resort, and the taser was a step before the last resort? He hurts the poor little kid while arresting her, and we hear how the big burly cop needs to know he is dealing with a ten year-old.

Yeah, if he hurt the kid unnecessarily while arresting her then that would also be a problem. Actually, that seems to be exactly what happened.

But your essential point seems to be that he may have hurt her and gotten in trouble if he hadn't used a taser, so it was OK for him to use the taser which ensured that he hurt her?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:31 pm

The argument about tasing a 10-year had some legitimate merit on both sides till this was written:

"IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close"

Now it is abundantly clear, the above author has not a friggin' clue...........
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:37 pm

dem425 wrote:The argument about tasing a 10-year had some legitimate merit on both sides till this was written:

"IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close"

Now it is abundantly clear, the above author has not a friggin' clue...........

I understand the police have to respond when called. I've been meaning to bring this case up to a friend of mine who works for child services in Florida to see what the position is there. But, I know you have experience, so I'm curious, mostly because I read this in a Gizmodo thread on this case: In Ohio, does the officer have the discretion to call child services in a case like this, or does he have to arrest the child without discretion? I know that once an officer is called there has to be some resolution other than him just saying "Ma'am, this is your problem" and leaving, but I would like to know where the line is.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:02 pm

aoxo1 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:
FUDU wrote:Am I the only one who read the entire link, including the police report in the link?

"The girl was resisting arrest"....really? She was under arrest for what charge, Mr. police officer?

Plus again, as aoxo has already made mention of, where was the threat of danger that calls for the last resort of a taser?

IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close.


Can a 10 year old not be arrested? Honest question... I thought a gun was the last resort, and the taser was a step before the last resort? He hurts the poor little kid while arresting her, and we hear how the big burly cop needs to know he is dealing with a ten year-old.

Yeah, if he hurt the kid unnecessarily while arresting her then that would also be a problem. Actually, that seems to be exactly what happened.

But your essential point seems to be that he may have hurt her and gotten in trouble if he hadn't used a taser, so it was OK for him to use the taser which ensured that he hurt her?


I'm more or less saying I error to the side of the officer in a case where the people involved sound like disrespectful ill-behaved trash. I will always error on the side of police in such situations. That is just my opinion, cases like these never have a happy ending for the officer no matter what he does. Use of the taser made for a good tv/print report.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Orenthal wrote:
I'm more or less saying I error to the side of the officer in a case where the people involved sound like disrespectful ill-behaved trash. I will always error on the side of police in such situations. That is just my opinion, cases like these never have a happy ending for the officer no matter what he does. Use of the taser made for a good tv/print report.


Life is apparently simple and choices are easy in a vacuum O.

Children are precious. Officers are callous, vindictive and brutal.

Again, someone link me to the article where the officer goes into a meth trailer for a domestic disturbance call or whatever, handles a dangerous/deadly situation properly, disarms a drug dealing chick beater, disarms the chick who suddenly decides to defend the guy kicking her ass on a daily basis too and everything works out how it should. Like 95% of calls are handled, if not more.

I'll post the next 10 in separate threads if you want me to start. Titles like "WTF? What a Competent Cop".

That'll be fun, no?

Officer responds to call (despite some advising a department should not do such things)
Finds an unruly child who can potentially cause harm to at least herself if not others
Is asked by mother to tase her if that will end the outburst
Attempts alternative resolution methods without success
Tases her briefly
Gets her care and attention
Ugly issue resolved with only the officer accountable for bad parenting and an unruly kid.

Perfect.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:27 pm

Let's get one thing straight. Dustin Bradshaw didn't tase a 10 year old because he needed to arrest her. If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.

Dustin Bradshaw is claiming that he had to tase Kiara because she was resisting arrest.

First principles come into play here: as has already been mentioned, what crime was Kiara committing that warranted her arrest?

If you cannot come up with a crime, then there is no justification for officer Bradshaw's actions.

If you can come up with a crime, I'd love to see a reference to the state statute justifying this.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:47 pm

jfiling wrote:If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.



Too late j.

In retrospect he should have just left and let her thrash herself to death on the floor or in the shower. Or ignored the call and fallen back on what should be the the departmental policy of not answering the phone.

Or maybe shot her with a tranquilizer dart.

Maybe 40+ years of watching asshole kids turn into asshole adults has me jaded. I don't know.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
jfiling wrote:If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.



Too late j.

In retrospect he should have just left and let her thrash herself to death on the floor or in the shower. Or ignored the call and fallen back on what should be the the departmental policy of not answering the phone.

Or maybe shot her with a tranquilizer dart.

Maybe 40+ years of watching asshole kids turn into asshole adults has me jaded. I don't know.

I'm waiting to hear what crime the girl committed warranted the officer decide she was resisting arrest. There has to be an underlying crime, and not taking a bath doesn't pass the smell test.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby That_Guy™ » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:57 pm

jfiling wrote:Let's get one thing straight. Dustin Bradshaw didn't tase a 10 year old because he needed to arrest her. If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.

Dustin Bradshaw is claiming that he had to tase Kiara because she was resisting arrest.

First principles come into play here: as has already been mentioned, what crime was Kiara committing that warranted her arrest?

If you cannot come up with a crime, then there is no justification for officer Bradshaw's actions.

If you can come up with a crime, I'd love to see a reference to the state statute justifying this.



Assaulting an officer? :hide:
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:04 pm

That_Guy™ wrote:
jfiling wrote:Let's get one thing straight. Dustin Bradshaw didn't tase a 10 year old because he needed to arrest her. If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.

Dustin Bradshaw is claiming that he had to tase Kiara because she was resisting arrest.

First principles come into play here: as has already been mentioned, what crime was Kiara committing that warranted her arrest?

If you cannot come up with a crime, then there is no justification for officer Bradshaw's actions.

If you can come up with a crime, I'd love to see a reference to the state statute justifying this.



Assaulting an officer? :hide:

Once again:
According to the below Ozark Police Department report, when Officer Dustin Bradshaw arrived at the residence last Thursday, he found the girl "screaming, kicking, and resisting every time her mother tried to touch her." Bradshaw added that, "Her mother told me to tase her if I needed to." After Kiara continued to refuse her mother's instructions, the cop concluded that "there was not going to be a peaceful resolution of the issue." Bradshaw warned the girl that she was "going to jail," but the child continued kicking and crying and resisted his attempt to handcuff her. During the tussle, Kiara "struck me with her legs and feet in the groin, reported Bradshaw, who countered with a brief "stun to her back" with his Taser.

The officer said he was going to arrest her, and here's where it get's tricky, BEFORE she kicked him. Under what pretense was the officer arresting her in the first place?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:23 pm

jfiling wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:
jfiling wrote:If that fact isn't something that can be agreed upon, this entire thread is destined to be a clusterfuck.



Too late j.

In retrospect he should have just left and let her thrash herself to death on the floor or in the shower. Or ignored the call and fallen back on what should be the the departmental policy of not answering the phone.

Or maybe shot her with a tranquilizer dart.

Maybe 40+ years of watching asshole kids turn into asshole adults has me jaded. I don't know.

I'm waiting to hear what crime the girl committed warranted the officer decide she was resisting arrest. There has to be an underlying crime, and not taking a bath doesn't pass the smell test.


I'd have done any of the above I mentioned before prior to having write up some justification. Or just done the Lloyd Christmas and pointed at the mother while saying, "She told me to do it."

Would have been far easier to justify not answering the call because police shouldn't respond to such things as domestic disturbances. And then walking in and finding her brain matter in the tub or finding her mother holding the boiling pot of water or frying pan.

But then people woulda probably complained about my callousness.

I want to hear all the experts tell me, step by step, what they would have done. If tasering was not the right option (and God knows I ain't saying it is not having actually been there) just lay it out from start to finish.

Specifics are the key. So be sure to include your assessment of the girl's mental well being and likelihood of doing herself or others more harm, any prior issues/calls you had with this family and what the protocol for the call would be.

Maybe there's a flow chart?

You've got a partial and redacted narrative of the police report and an internet article. This should be clear cut based on that information.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:47 pm

Peek, I'm just going to flat out say it:

What was the crime?

I'm still waiting for the answer. This has nothing to do with police procedure, the use of tasers, or anything else.

What was the crime for which the officer was arresting this 10 year old girl?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:47 pm

I know I am going to regret this, but here goes:

I cannot speak for Arkansas law (insert your own joke here) regarding juveniles. In Ohio, juveniles can only be charged under TWO offenses: unruly and delinquent. Unruly pertains to rules only a juvenile can violate like:

Truant from school
Curfew violations
"UNRULINESS" at home (which includes things like back-talking, refusing parental orders, etc)

Delinquency involves actual crimes committed that adults can go to jail for....Murder, raper, robbery, assault, domestic violence, disorderly conduct, etc.

A juvenile can be arrested for unruly or delinquency depending on the offense committed. If a child commits either and the parent (s) tell the police they cannot handle them, then the police must take the child to a juveile facility. If a crime was committed, the child will be held until they go before a referee or judge. Generally, juvenile detention facilities will only hold juveniles for 24-48 hours.

A parent who has lost all control of their children will likely look for someone to handle the problems they should have been addressing all along.

A police officer called to the home of an "unruly" juvenile (which in this case, I believe fits the bill) must first of all try and gain some semblence of control that the parent (s) have apparently lost or most likely, never had. During the Jurassic period when I was a cop, we might have tried to restrain and control them physically which means having to put our hands on them, subduing them (by means of joint/nerve manipulation, baton techniques or just good old wrestling moves) and them attempting some type of restraint such as flex cuff or hobbles.

Talking is usually the first line of defense, but if you have ever seen an out of control child (regardless of age or sex), talking generally doesn't work. SO, do we:

Have the big bad cops wrestle Little Nell to the ground and cuff/hog-tie risking substantial injury to cop and kid, OR
Spray her with pepper spray OR
Tase her OR
Walk away(go back to our coffee and donuts) and leave parents/children to their own devices OR
..............................I will let you come up with some other ideas.........

Children services will respond ONLY in cases of dire emergencies...........

I have stated on record that supplementary police tools like Pepper spray, batons, tasers, etc.... are in vogue more and more today because workers comp injuries to cops are skyrocketing and manufacturers of "less than lethal" equipment have convinced the police administrators that pepper spray and tasing are "safer" than putting hands on someone....Do SOME cops use TOO much pepper spray and OVER REACT with tasers.............Undeniably YES!...........BUT they are in the friggin minority..........Get that through your heads!!!

Without being too condescending, what do YOU folks who graciously paid my salary for all those years think we should do?
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:08 am

jfiling wrote:Peek, I'm just going to flat out say it:

What was the crime?

I'm still waiting for the answer. This has nothing to do with police procedure, the use of tasers, or anything else.

What was the crime for which the officer was arresting this 10 year old girl?


The fuck it doesn't.

It has everything to do with it. I want to hear your expert analysis as I asked above. Run down the situation and tell me what you do. Step by step.

You have enough information to tell us all what a travesty this was so you obviously have enough information, experience and analytical ability to tell me what should have been done in this specific situation.

The guy answered the call j. You'd have sprained a goddamn ovary tripping over the power cord to vent and start a "Cop Ignores Mother's Plea, 10 Yr Old Dies in Shower" thread if he had left w/o doing a thing had the girl died at her own hands or at her mother's. :nanner:

So go ahead and tell me, with your experience and all the information at your disposal, just what would the benevolent jfiling have done to peacefully and effectively resolve the situation?

And while I was typing this you got a pretty good explanation of what the law is at least here in Ohio. I'd imagine Arkansas has laws. Although that's not altogether obvious when rolling through Little Rock at times. ;-) ;) :wink:

But it is beside the point. The guy responded to an ugly situation where the parent threw up her hands and said, "Help me. Taser her, get her to stop." WTF was he going to do once he walked in the door?

And.....go. :group:
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:49 am

J, I like you, I really do. I think you contribute a lot of interesting thoughts and takes on this board. But I can not handle one more fucking thread on tasing. You know my dad is a cop so perhaps this pisses me off more than it should, but just give it a rest man. You are doing nothing by pointing out every time a cop uses a taser when they shouldn't. People know there are cops who abuse their power and those that make mistakes. I am sure you have never lost your temper or made a mistake at your job.

Instead of tasing when he came to this call this police officer could have just showed up and shot the guy and his wife wouldnt have to be a single mother and he would have been able to actually see his unborn child. What an idiot, its simple in hindsight, show up, shoot the guy causing problems and the officer is still alive

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19765-polic ... -pawlowski

This guy should have never showed up to check the well being of someone on this call and if he did show he should have shot up the house before knocking. Seriously, look at this schmuck how could he not see it coming. Being a police officer is just so simple, maybe you could explain that to his children when they get old enough to understand that they will never see their dad again

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19871-deput ... ad-mechels

And really, this guy? Should have just tased the fucker in the back until he couldnt move once he got close to the car. Then he would still be alive as well as the 2 guys from the SWAT team that died trying to apprehend the suspect. Ah screw it, this guy just didnt do his job well and his 3 kids will just have to go on fatherless because this inept police officer couldn't do the simplest of tasks on the simplest of jobs.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19878-sergeant-mark-dunakin

Give the second guessing a rest man, these guys live real life, they get real bullets fired on them. They arent perfect and they make mistakes, but my guess is if you make a mistake in your job it doesn't become fodder for people on a message board who have a ax to grind against police officers and love to try to discredit them and tear them apart. Just fucking stop
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby Ziner » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:05 am

Maybe I will turn this thread in to a thread about times a police officer should have tasered a guy and if he did he would still be alive. All of these guys were doing it your way and apprehending a suspect without a taser.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15741-polic ... -dan-adams

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7496679

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/03/22/ ... 237698907/

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/commis/pib/i ... bert.shtml

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/94044

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... 80397.html

http://www.odmp.org/officer/18510-offic ... ph-johnson

http://www.odmp.org/officer/18822-senio ... imothy-nix

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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:32 am

dem425 wrote:The argument about tasing a 10-year had some legitimate merit on both sides till this was written:

"IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close"

Now it is abundantly clear, the above author has not a friggin' clue...........

Explain to me when the LEO's or any other person's life was in danger
(b/c a child was being disobedient about going to bed), then and only then will I acknowledge a 10 yr old being tasered as a legit FUCK up, err excuse.

Context retards, context.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:01 am

dem425 wrote:I know I am going to regret this, but here goes:

I cannot speak for Arkansas law (insert your own joke here) regarding juveniles. In Ohio, juveniles can only be charged under TWO offenses: unruly and delinquent. Unruly pertains to rules only a juvenile can violate like:

Truant from school
Curfew violations
"UNRULINESS" at home (which includes things like back-talking, refusing parental orders, etc)

Delinquency involves actual crimes committed that adults can go to jail for....Murder, raper, robbery, assault, domestic violence, disorderly conduct, etc.

A juvenile can be arrested for unruly or delinquency depending on the offense committed. If a child commits either and the parent (s) tell the police they cannot handle them, then the police must take the child to a juveile facility. If a crime was committed, the child will be held until they go before a referee or judge. Generally, juvenile detention facilities will only hold juveniles for 24-48 hours.

A parent who has lost all control of their children will likely look for someone to handle the problems they should have been addressing all along.

A police officer called to the home of an "unruly" juvenile (which in this case, I believe fits the bill) must first of all try and gain some semblence of control that the parent (s) have apparently lost or most likely, never had. During the Jurassic period when I was a cop, we might have tried to restrain and control them physically which means having to put our hands on them, subduing them (by means of joint/nerve manipulation, baton techniques or just good old wrestling moves) and them attempting some type of restraint such as flex cuff or hobbles.

Talking is usually the first line of defense, but if you have ever seen an out of control child (regardless of age or sex), talking generally doesn't work. SO, do we:

Have the big bad cops wrestle Little Nell to the ground and cuff/hog-tie risking substantial injury to cop and kid, OR
Spray her with pepper spray OR
Tase her OR
Walk away(go back to our coffee and donuts) and leave parents/children to their own devices OR
..............................I will let you come up with some other ideas.........

Children services will respond ONLY in cases of dire emergencies...........

I have stated on record that supplementary police tools like Pepper spray, batons, tasers, etc.... are in vogue more and more today because workers comp injuries to cops are skyrocketing and manufacturers of "less than lethal" equipment have convinced the police administrators that pepper spray and tasing are "safer" than putting hands on someone....Do SOME cops use TOO much pepper spray and OVER REACT with tasers.............Undeniably YES!...........BUT they are in the friggin minority..........Get that through your heads!!!

Without being too condescending, what do YOU folks who graciously paid my salary for all those years think we should do?

Of course they are in the minority, which his why these stories are in the news so infrequentley. However ,no matter how infrequently a spade doesn't mean we, the people, cannot call it a spade.

FOR GOD'S SAKE TELL ME, PLEASE TELL ME, AS A FORMER LEO, THAT YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 10 YEAR OLD CHILD AND AN ADULT HUMAN BEING.

...oh and please spare me the "the LEO has little time to react to the situation, and has to make a split second decision" argument. What the fuck was gonna happen next, was the kid gonna throw her legos at you and knock your gun holster off your side?

No wonder why so many people cannot stand law enforcement, and I in fact stand behind their efforts 99.99% b/c I know their jobs suck.

10 year old kid, morons.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby jfiling » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:25 am

Ziner wrote:J, I like you, I really do. I think you contribute a lot of interesting thoughts and takes on this board. But I can not handle one more fucking thread on tasing. You know my dad is a cop so perhaps this pisses me off more than it should, but just give it a rest man. You are doing nothing by pointing out every time a cop uses a taser when they shouldn't.

I just went through all of NHB. This is exactly the second thread I have ever started on tasing.

For what that's worth.

One on a mentally-disabled guy getting tased because he wouldn't come out of a restroom, and one on a cop tasing a 10 year old because she wouldn't take a bath.

Basically, the two most egregious uses of the taser I've ever seen.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby dem425 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:35 am

FUDU:

Here's a context for you (and I won't call you a retard, because that would be an insult to mentally handicapped people):

You have no clue whatsoever. If you think an out of control 10-year is incapable of harming themselves or others, I suggest you sack up the testicular fortitude and seek a job doing public service, preferably in the area of juvenile counseling, probation, teaching LD/ADD/Bi-polar children, family intervention, Big Brother program, "Children in Crisis" programs or a hundred others. Then review your past postings............

You notice I never mentioned you seeking a job in law enforcement................guess why.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:30 am

dem425 wrote:FUDU:

Here's a context for you (and I won't call you a retard, because that would be an insult to mentally handicapped people):

You have no clue whatsoever. If you think an out of control 10-year is incapable of harming themselves or others, I suggest you sack up the testicular fortitude and seek a job doing public service, preferably in the area of juvenile counseling, probation, teaching LD/ADD/Bi-polar children, family intervention, Big Brother program, "Children in Crisis" programs or a hundred others. Then review your past postings............

You notice I never mentioned you seeking a job in law enforcement................guess why.


You kidding me? FUDU knows all (except maybe the 'spade is a spade' proper usage).

Here's what he said:

IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close.


You'd think that means they shouldn't respond to domestic disturbances, right. Cuz whatever goes wrong there?

But he turned it into:

Explain to me when the LEO's or any other person's life was in danger
(b/c a child was being disobedient about going to bed), then and only then will I acknowledge a 10 yr old being tasered as a legit FUCK up, err excuse.

Context retards, context.


It's called the Tourettes style of arguing where you blurt out anything and hope it makes sense. He's the master.

You cannot win. He knows more than you about both raising 10 yr olds, how to handle kids and police work. Believe me. Doesn't matter he never did any of it.

And take care to note no one has offered up what I asked for earlier.

No one. Because they are full of shit. They have as much experience of walking into this type of situation as they do with kids. And they won't break it down in detail.

They never do.
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Re: WTF? Taser edition.

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:37 pm

FUDU wrote:
dem425 wrote:The argument about tasing a 10-year had some legitimate merit on both sides till this was written:

"IMO the police department should be reprimanded for responding to such a call to begin with. Disobedience does not fall under domestic violence, not even close"

Now it is abundantly clear, the above author has not a friggin' clue...........

Explain to me when the LEO's or any other person's life was in danger
(b/c a child was being disobedient about going to bed), then and only then will I acknowledge a 10 yr old being tasered as a legit FUCK up, err excuse.

Context retards, context.


Retards aay?

Nice.
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