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NBA Greats Draft: Let the games begin!!!

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Re: NBA Greats Draft: doc, tw, buckey and brit up,

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:16 pm

FUDU-

May need another update in the thread title so those know to pick... also a shout-out to whomever is being skipped...

Goes without saying thanks for all the work on this.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: doc, tw, buckey and brit up,

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:11 pm

Just as a drive by, if we can land West and Posey, and then a real swing man to go along with James who can drain from out trey like dude from Toronto, this was a DAMN good off season and we have a legit championship shot. SSB can just go away. Camby would be a bonus.

Then again, we could just stay put and get less rest between series. Because after game 2 when I told you ALL there was a talent / matchup differential Ray Charles could see that was dooming us real-time, you all told me I was fucked in the head, esp Peeker & Madre. Now it's all "Chris Bosh or we have no shot".

I await the coming of the correct that will never come my way. :-)

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Re: NBA Greats Draft: doc, tw, buckey and brit up,

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:29 pm

JB wrote:Just as a drive by, if we can land West and Posey, and then a real swing man to go along with James who can drain from out trey like dude from Toronto, this was a DAMN good off season and we have a legit championship shot. SSB can just go away. Camby would be a bonus.

Then again, we could just stay put and get less rest between series. Because after game 2 when I told you ALL there was a talent / matchup differential Ray Charles could see that was dooming us real-time, you all told me I was fucked in the head, esp Peeker & Madre. Now it's all "Chris Bosh or we have no shot".

I await the coming of the correct that will never come my way. :-)

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Fery better not screw the pooch and make excuses or sign dooshbags.



Damn... nice take.

Wrong thread.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb CP coming up

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:45 am

Guys Walton was a quality center, but he went exactly where he should have in this type of draft. Hell he never averaged 20ppg. You guys are confusing his greatness in college with his pro days.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:08 am

FUDU wrote:Guys Walton was a quality center, but he went exactly where he should have in this type of draft. Hell he never averaged 20ppg. You guys are confusing his greatness in college with his pro days.


No, we aren't.

If you want to argue that injury-proneness should be included in evaluating guys for these teams, then it is a fair point. But if we are considering the players when they were healthy in the NBA, Walton was absolutely in the top 10 C's ever. And even there he gets docked. If he had been healthy for more than a few seasons, he would definitely be in the top 5.

Two seasons in which he was MODERATELY healthy, and would have been considered unhealthy for most players, he was absolutely dominant. Even then he only managed to play 65 and 58 games. Yet, he was still an all star both years, one first and one second team All NBA, one regular season MVP, one finals MVP, two first team all defense. One championship.

Greatest passing big man ever. One of the greatest defensive big men ever. ~18.5 ppg in his two "healthy" seasons... in ~34 mpg @ 52.5% FG% with almost 15 RPG, 4.5 APG, and nearly 3 BPG.

And we aren't the only ones. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... estCenters

Take the time to watch some of those Blazers games on ESPN Classic. If you love basketball, there is almost nothing sadder than Bill Walton's feet.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:13 am

aoxo1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:Guys Walton was a quality center, but he went exactly where he should have in this type of draft. Hell he never averaged 20ppg. You guys are confusing his greatness in college with his pro days.


No, we aren't.

If you want to argue that injury-proneness should be included in evaluating guys for these teams, then it is a fair point. But if we are considering the players when they were healthy in the NBA, Walton was absolutely in the top 10 C's ever. And even there he gets docked. If he had been healthy for more than a few seasons, he would definitely be in the top 5.

Two seasons in which he was MODERATELY healthy, and would have been considered unhealthy for most players, he was absolutely dominant. Even then he only managed to play 65 and 58 games. Yet, he was still an all star both years, one first and one second team All NBA, one regular season MVP, one finals MVP, two first team all defense. One championship.

Greatest passing big man ever. One of the greatest defensive big men ever. ~18.5 ppg in his two "healthy" seasons... in ~34 mpg @ 52.5% FG% with almost 15 RPG, 4.5 APG, and nearly 3 BPG.

And we aren't the only ones. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... estCenters

Take the time to watch some of those Blazers games on ESPN Classic. If you love basketball, there is almost nothing sadder than Bill Walton's feet.

My point was only to validate where he went in this process, lots of better big men than him to take in this thing. No way he should have went top 3-5 rounds. his best healthy years were nothing compared to other great 5's average years in SOME cases. Plus when you take into account having to fill by position, taking a Walton over a much better player at another position is almost insane. Rd 6 is probably where he should have been picked maybe 5?

I see your point about when he was healthy, but he still wasn't among the best of the best when he was healthy, close eh? He was a tad one dimensional.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:23 am

FUDU wrote:My point was only to validate where he went in this process, lots of better big men than him to take in this thing. No way he should have went top 3-5 rounds. his best healthy years were nothing compared to other great 5's average years in SOME cases. Plus when you take into account having to fill by position, taking a Walton over a much better player at another position is almost insane. Rd 6 is probably where he should have been picked maybe 5?


You're telling me a healthy Bill Walton was worse than Willis Reed, Robert Parish, Patrick Ewing, Zo, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, and Dikembe Mutombo?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:25 am

BTW jfiling, I made an earlier post that I deleted and you were wondering who i was referring to... it was Bill Walton.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:37 am

aoxo1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:My point was only to validate where he went in this process, lots of better big men than him to take in this thing. No way he should have went top 3-5 rounds. his best healthy years were nothing compared to other great 5's average years in SOME cases. Plus when you take into account having to fill by position, taking a Walton over a much better player at another position is almost insane. Rd 6 is probably where he should have been picked maybe 5?


You're telling me a healthy Bill Walton was worse than Willis Reed, Robert Parish, Patrick Ewing, Zo, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, and Dikembe Mutombo?

In this format in the way we are/can go about it I am saying Bill Walton is going to get picked after some guys that were not considered all around as good at the same position. Reason, b/c we can afford to let Bill slip by b/c we can find contributions from other greats that out weight either areas of his weakness or strength.

IE Mutumbo was of course no where near as good a center as Walton, but Mutumbo offered as much of an impact on D as Walton did (maybe more so really), so if somebody has an assortment of guys filling other needs yeah Mutumbo might get taken before Bill.

Or IOW some people might consider Walton worthy of a starting spot in their all time greats roster. He certainly has no place to start on my team.

Context aoxo.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:49 am

IOW: you are telling me that if your lineup lends itself to a defensive center your center should only be a good defensive player, that if he is well rounded there is no place for him?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:25 am

e0y2e3 wrote:IOW: you are telling me that if your lineup lends itself to a defensive center your center should only be a good defensive player, that if he is well rounded there is no place for him?

Nope I am saying you can get way more bang for your buck with another position in this format than you possibly could by selecting a Walton in very early rounds where he "supposedly" should have been taken.

Again for IE: top scorers are going to go often and early and some of those top scorers will be legendary great big men. So if you are a late pick or in the middle of round 2/3 and don't want to lose out on a very good to great scorer you're going to want to grab a VG to great scorer you're not going to be content with taking Walton just b/c he was a really good center (and on ESPN's list of best ever at 7) and should go ahead of other centers. You can adjust your roster for losing out on a Walton or fill that void in some other capacity.

It isn't that hard to understand guys.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:34 am

No it is, when considering the other centers.

Look, guy slipped through the cracks, no big deal. These excuses are silly though. The guy was one of the top all time and went after centers that weren't. He also was an incredible all around player, so your specialist argument doesn't hold.

Guy slipped, it happens.

But don't try and rationalize it with "some people picked scorers because of BPA" when other not as good centers went later.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby CP » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:40 am

e0y2e3 wrote:No it is, when considering the other centers.

Look, guy slipped through the cracks, no big deal. These excuses are silly though. The guy was one of the top all time and went after centers that weren't. He also was an incredible all around player, so your specialist argument doesn't hold.

Guy slipped, it happens.

But don't try and rationalize it with "some people picked scorers because of BPA" when other not as good centers went later.


Before I make my last picks, Walton didn't fit with what I wanted. I wanted a dominating defensive presence off the bench and Mutombo fit that want better than Walton. Walton was surely a better all-around player but I decided to go with Mutombo because he fit my team. Walton was a good shot-blocker but is not the shot-blocker that Mutombo is, nor the interior defensive presence that Mutombo provides. Walton was an all-time great but I chose the 4-time defensive player of the year to come off the bench.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:44 am

I'm loving this, fwiw.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby CP » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:56 am

Hate to skip Swerb but it's been since nearly 4 pm yesterday when noles made a pick, so here are my final picks:

With the last pick in the 7th round of the draft, I select Mr. Big Shot:

Chauncey Billups, G

Image

Billups is a NBA Finals MVP, a four-time All-Star, a perennial entrant into the Conference Finals, and is one of the most underrated players in the league. Great teammate and one of the guys who you'd most want handling the ball when the game was on the line. Dynamic 3-point shooter, can get shots for himself and for his teammates and just plain comes up big in big games.

Fits my theme on both ends of the floor, too.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:59 am

CP wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:No it is, when considering the other centers.

Look, guy slipped through the cracks, no big deal. These excuses are silly though. The guy was one of the top all time and went after centers that weren't. He also was an incredible all around player, so your specialist argument doesn't hold.

Guy slipped, it happens.

But don't try and rationalize it with "some people picked scorers because of BPA" when other not as good centers went later.


Before I make my last picks, Walton didn't fit with what I wanted. I wanted a dominating defensive presence off the bench and Mutombo fit that want better than Walton. Walton was surely a better all-around player but I decided to go with Mutombo because he fit my team. Walton was a good shot-blocker but is not the shot-blocker that Mutombo is, nor the interior defensive presence that Mutombo provides. Walton was an all-time great but I chose the 4-time defensive player of the year to come off the bench.

Take that eye!

:cheers:

I'm loving this, fwiw.


Me as well, all aspects of it.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby CP » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:23 am

With the 1st pick in the 8th round of the draft, I select the perfect coach for my team:

Red Holzman

Image

There is nothing I can say about Red Holzman, who is largely forgotten in today's game, that he didn't say about himself:

''I stressed defense -- pressure defense,'' he once said. ''And team basketball. And, on offense, moving the ball to hit the open man.'' In huddles he would sometimes let his players devise plays to create baskets. As for defense, however, he was the sole voice.


My team:

PG - Gary Payton
SG - Sidney Moncrief
SF - Tracy McGrady
PF - Karl Malone
C - David Robinson

BENCH - Dikembe Mutombo
BENCH - Chauncey Billups

COACH - Red Holzman
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:12 am

Look, you're putting together a team of all time greats. You need a big man who can fit in well with a bunch of guys who can score. He's gotta shoot efficiently on offense, but doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. Now you've got Bill Walton available. He has all the tools. He can shoot, post up, rebound at a high rate, and blocks shots. He is an all defense level performer on the other end. But more importantly, he gets you out in transition because he gets so many rebounds and blocks and is a great, great passer. He is as skilled a big man as we have in the game today, he does it all. And on top of that, he is a champion. You know he will be there in crunch time. And you know he can come off the bench, if need be. This is a guy who in only one and a half healthy seasons won a championship, two first team all defense, MVP, and Finals MVP. He was the sixth man of the year. He can do it all. He could play in the slow down grind it out style of the 90s or the uptempo fast breaking game of the 80s. You will not go wrong with Bill Walton.

/Hubie
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:17 am

aoxo1 wrote:Look, you're putting together a team of all time greats. You need a big man who can fit in well with a bunch of guys who can score. He's gotta shoot efficiently on offense, but doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. Now you've got Bill Walton available. He has all the tools. He can shoot, post up, rebound at a high rate, and blocks shots. He is an all defense level performer on the other end. But more importantly, he gets you out in transition because he gets so many rebounds and blocks and is a great, great passer. He is as skilled a big man as we have in the game today, he does it all. And on top of that, he is a champion. You know he will be there in crunch time. And you know he can come off the bench, if need be. This is a guy who in only one and a half healthy seasons won a championship, two first team all defense, MVP, and Finals MVP. He was the sixth man of the year. He can do it all. He could play in the slow down grind it out style of the 90s or the uptempo fast breaking game of the 80s. You will not go wrong with Bill Walton.

/Hubie


You should be forced to supply a link or quotes for that.

LMAO. Great job on the impersonation aoxo.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:20 am

Drafting Walton isn't bad, as long as you supplement that pick with a few spare ankles and feet.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby CP » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:25 am

aoxo1 wrote:Look, you're putting together a team of all time greats. You need a big man who can fit in well with a bunch of guys who can score. He's gotta shoot efficiently on offense, but doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. Now you've got Bill Walton available. He has all the tools. He can shoot, post up, rebound at a high rate, and blocks shots. He is an all defense level performer on the other end. But more importantly, he gets you out in transition because he gets so many rebounds and blocks and is a great, great passer. He is as skilled a big man as we have in the game today, he does it all. And on top of that, he is a champion. You know he will be there in crunch time. And you know he can come off the bench, if need be. This is a guy who in only one and a half healthy seasons won a championship, two first team all defense, MVP, and Finals MVP. He was the sixth man of the year. He can do it all. He could play in the slow down grind it out style of the 90s or the uptempo fast breaking game of the 80s. You will not go wrong with Bill Walton.

/Hubie


I think people are forgetting or minimizing how great a defender Mutombo actually was and how his presence literally altered the offensive games of everyone he faced. No one is disagreeing on Walton's effectiveness. But as an interior defender and someone who protects the rim, he's not on Mutombo's level. He is a better scorer and passer, yes.

Ultimately, this is the argument I have to push in defense of my team. We are picking guys out of decades of NBA basketball. Surely we can come up with 100+ guys who had no problem putting the ball in the hole. All 16 teams here aren't going to have that problem. That said, if you want stops, you need ELITE defensive players, not just very good defensive players. You don't get to pad your stats against the worst teams in the league or showcase your defensive skills against a bunch of stiffs. Look at the 16 teams; how many of them have 3+ elite defenders on their team who can matchup with the other teams? Realistically, how many of these teams can actually get a stop at some point? I maintain that my team has elite defenders all over the place. I can stop teams in the post and at the rim with Defensive Players of the Year in the Mailman, Admiral and Mutombo. I can stop the ball at the point of attack with Payton. I can stop a slasher (with plenty of help) with Sidney Moncrief. My team's style of play (with Holzman running the show) will allow me to get more stops than any other team in this draft and is the reason why I think my team can win games.

We really need to put this in a whatifsports.com type simulator because that would be fun. Take out injuries and play one season with this and see what happens.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:29 am

CP wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Look, you're putting together a team of all time greats. You need a big man who can fit in well with a bunch of guys who can score. He's gotta shoot efficiently on offense, but doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. Now you've got Bill Walton available. He has all the tools. He can shoot, post up, rebound at a high rate, and blocks shots. He is an all defense level performer on the other end. But more importantly, he gets you out in transition because he gets so many rebounds and blocks and is a great, great passer. He is as skilled a big man as we have in the game today, he does it all. And on top of that, he is a champion. You know he will be there in crunch time. And you know he can come off the bench, if need be. This is a guy who in only one and a half healthy seasons won a championship, two first team all defense, MVP, and Finals MVP. He was the sixth man of the year. He can do it all. He could play in the slow down grind it out style of the 90s or the uptempo fast breaking game of the 80s. You will not go wrong with Bill Walton.

/Hubie


I think people are forgetting or minimizing how great a defender Mutombo actually was and how his presence literally altered the offensive games of everyone he faced. No one is disagreeing on Walton's effectiveness. But as an interior defender and someone who protects the rim, he's not on Mutombo's level. He is a better scorer and passer, yes.

Ultimately, this is the argument I have to push in defense of my team. We are picking guys out of decades of NBA basketball. Surely we can come up with 100+ guys who had no problem putting the ball in the hole. All 16 teams here aren't going to have that problem. That said, if you want stops, you need ELITE defensive players, not just very good defensive players. You don't get to pad your stats against the worst teams in the league or showcase your defensive skills against a bunch of stiffs. Look at the 16 teams; how many of them have 3+ elite defenders on their team who can matchup with the other teams? Realistically, how many of these teams can actually get a stop at some point? I maintain that my team has elite defenders all over the place. I can stop teams in the post and at the rim with Defensive Players of the Year in the Mailman, Admiral and Mutombo. I can stop the ball at the point of attack with Payton. I can stop a slasher (with plenty of help) with Sidney Moncrief. My team's style of play (with Holzman running the show) will allow me to get more stops than any other team in this draft and is the reason why I think my team can win games.

We really need to put this in a whatifsports.com type simulator because that would be fun. Take out injuries and play one season with this and see what happens.


Agree to an extent but with great players, great offense always beats great defense. That's been proven time and again in basketball.

I agree there is a balance there but you have to put the ball in the hole to win and a team that is able to present matchups issues (ala Orlando) is more likely to come away than a dominant defensive team in this format.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby CP » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:42 am

noles1 wrote:Agree to an extent but with great players, great offense always beats great defense. That's been proven time and again in basketball.

I agree there is a balance there but you have to put the ball in the hole to win and a team that is able to present matchups issues (ala Orlando) is more likely to come away than a dominant defensive team in this format.


We disagree.

Sincerely,

2007-08 Celtics, 2006-07/2004-05/2002-03 Spurs, 2003-04 Pistons, 1994-95/1995-96 Rockets, teams coached by Chuck Daly and Red Holzman, etc.


We also disagree,

2007-08 Lakers, 2005-06 Mavericks, 2001-02/2002-03 Nets, teams coached by Paul Westhead and Mike D'Antoni, etc.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:01 pm

I don't think your team is bad at all CP, so no need to defend it so vehemently. I do think Walton would have been a better compliment to The Admiral and Mailman, but wtf do I know or matter?

I also think the fundemental problem with a draft like this and the main reason I didn't do it is that most of us are not great historians of the game. I am too young to have any business in an All-Time Greats draft and only a few posters on here rival Jesse or Simmons in knowing the olden hoops days. The rest of us can watch some highlights here and there and know the Walton getting hurt was one of the bigger blows in the history of the league but we are always going to favor more recent players. Freshness and what not. Then there are also the issues with athleticism/the modern era. Walton was a force in the 60's, but what would he do against a Shaq, etc. In short I think that is why a few of the older greats fell and it is completely understandable.

I'd probably take part in something like this if there was a year cut off. Or if it was all current players (I think this would be a riot). But it is going to be really hard to compare the different teams fairly in this format.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby pup » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:15 pm

CP wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Look, you're putting together a team of all time greats. You need a big man who can fit in well with a bunch of guys who can score. He's gotta shoot efficiently on offense, but doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. Now you've got Bill Walton available. He has all the tools. He can shoot, post up, rebound at a high rate, and blocks shots. He is an all defense level performer on the other end. But more importantly, he gets you out in transition because he gets so many rebounds and blocks and is a great, great passer. He is as skilled a big man as we have in the game today, he does it all. And on top of that, he is a champion. You know he will be there in crunch time. And you know he can come off the bench, if need be. This is a guy who in only one and a half healthy seasons won a championship, two first team all defense, MVP, and Finals MVP. He was the sixth man of the year. He can do it all. He could play in the slow down grind it out style of the 90s or the uptempo fast breaking game of the 80s. You will not go wrong with Bill Walton.

/Hubie


I think people are forgetting or minimizing how great a defender Mutombo actually was and how his presence literally altered the offensive games of everyone he faced. No one is disagreeing on Walton's effectiveness. But as an interior defender and someone who protects the rim, he's not on Mutombo's level. He is a better scorer and passer, yes.

Ultimately, this is the argument I have to push in defense of my team. We are picking guys out of decades of NBA basketball. Surely we can come up with 100+ guys who had no problem putting the ball in the hole. All 16 teams here aren't going to have that problem. That said, if you want stops, you need ELITE defensive players, not just very good defensive players. You don't get to pad your stats against the worst teams in the league or showcase your defensive skills against a bunch of stiffs. Look at the 16 teams; how many of them have 3+ elite defenders on their team who can matchup with the other teams? Realistically, how many of these teams can actually get a stop at some point? I maintain that my team has elite defenders all over the place. I can stop teams in the post and at the rim with Defensive Players of the Year in the Mailman, Admiral and Mutombo. I can stop the ball at the point of attack with Payton. I can stop a slasher (with plenty of help) with Sidney Moncrief. My team's style of play (with Holzman running the show) will allow me to get more stops than any other team in this draft and is the reason why I think my team can win games.

We really need to put this in a whatifsports.com type simulator because that would be fun. Take out injuries and play one season with this and see what happens.


I just contacted someone at what if sports to see if they would have any interest in doing something for us and any future drafts we may hold.

I'll let you know.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:35 pm

CP wrote:Hate to skip Swerb but it's been since nearly 4 pm yesterday when noles made a pick, so here are my final picks:

With the last pick in the 7th round of the draft, I select Mr. Big Shot:

Chauncey Billups, G

Image

Billups is a NBA Finals MVP, a four-time All-Star, a perennial entrant into the Conference Finals, and is one of the most underrated players in the league. Great teammate and one of the guys who you'd most want handling the ball when the game was on the line. Dynamic 3-point shooter, can get shots for himself and for his teammates and just plain comes up big in big games.

Fits my theme on both ends of the floor, too.


I motion to strike the name Mr. Big Shot from any Chauncey Billups reference, especially when the true Mr. Big Shot, Big Shot Bob, Robert Horry, is still alive and well. I'll let Bill Simmons take it away: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090603&sportCat=nba

Q. How long do you think I can keep milking this "Mr. Big Shot" gimmick without anyone pointing out my nasty habit of disappearing in deciding games?
-- C. Billups, Denver

SG: Chauncey! You're alive! I thought you had died after Game 4 of the Lakers series; what a relief! Anyway, I give you credit for bringing this up. You no-showed in Games 5 and 6 of the 2003 Eastern finals (playing injured, but still); the entire 2004 Eastern finals (Detroit still won); Game 7 of the 2005 NBA Finals; Games 5 and 6 of the 2006 Miami series; and Game 6 of the 2007 Cavs series. You inexplicably disappeared for the first four games of the 2008 Boston series. And I mistakenly thought you had passed away after Game 4 of the 2009 Lakers series. That's an inordinate amount of no-shows, no? I vote that we change your nickname back to "Chauncey."


What's he hit like 2 big shots in his life?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jordan kramer » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:33 pm

you have to take into account injury-proneness, so Walton went about where he should have. maybe he was a bargain in rd. 6, but he probably wasn't the steal of the draft
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:34 pm

Ron Artest and Tony Parker for my bench to finish my team.

PG - Steve Nash
SG - Jerry West
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Pau Gasol
C - Dwight Howard

bench - Tony Parker
bench - Ron Artest

Coach - The Zen Master
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Swerb wrote:Ron Artest and Tony Parker for my bench to finish my team.

PG - Steve Nash
SG - Jerry West
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Pau Gasol
C - Dwight Howard

bench - Tony Parker
bench - Ron Artest

Coach - The Zen Master

I guess I should have known better than to hope for Artest to fall to me in the last round. Rizzo pimping him this morning made me realize he was going before I got to pick him.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:33 pm

jordan kramer wrote:you have to take into account injury-proneness, so Walton went about where he should have. maybe he was a bargain in rd. 6, but he probably wasn't the steal of the draft


I was under the impression teams were compared by considering players at their peak and without injury.

At least, IIRC that was the established criteria.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:you have to take into account injury-proneness, so Walton went about where he should have. maybe he was a bargain in rd. 6, but he probably wasn't the steal of the draft


I was under the impression teams were compared by considering players at their peak and without injury.

At least, IIRC that was the established criteria.

I just looked at the first page, and the criteria seems somewhat vague at best.

However, I wonder: can Swerb have both Tony Parker and Ron Artest on his bench? I thought one had to be a F/C.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:53 pm

However, I wonder: can Swerb have both Tony Parker and Ron Artest on his bench? I thought one had to be a F/C.



I think we decided just to leave it to the discretion of the picker. He's got two great bench guards, but when people vote they'll also look at his lack of a big on the bench. It's all strategery as ol Dubyah would say.

Also, if noles and Larvell could go ahead and pick I wouldn't hold it against them. I'm ready for them to no doubt take at least one of the 2 coaches I'm looking at.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:54 pm

jfiling wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:you have to take into account injury-proneness, so Walton went about where he should have. maybe he was a bargain in rd. 6, but he probably wasn't the steal of the draft


I was under the impression teams were compared by considering players at their peak and without injury.

At least, IIRC that was the established criteria.

I just looked at the first page, and the criteria seems somewhat vague at best.

However, I wonder: can Swerb have both Tony Parker and Ron Artest on his bench? I thought one had to be a F/C.


he is listed as a G/F

not that my opinion counts but Parker would be the G and Artest would be the F.

oh that and it's his house.... :nanner:
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:58 pm

Based on the two above responses, I have no objection to Rich's bench. Especially since he has home court ;)
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:00 pm

For me it's a no-brainer... Guy is highly regarded throughout the league today as the best coach. His own players respect the hell out of him and I like anyone that has won 4 titles in the last 11 years with basically a Tim Duncan and whomever else shows up that series.

Team   Year   G   W   L   W–L%   Finish   PG   PW   PL   Result  
SAS 1996–97 64 17 47 .266 6th in Midwest — — — Missed Playoffs
SAS 1997–98 82 56 26 .683 2nd in Midwest 9 4 5 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
SAS 1998–99 50 37 13 .740 1st in Midwest 17 15 2 Won NBA Championship
SAS 1999–00 82 53 29 .646 2nd in Midwest 4 1 3 Lost in First Round
SAS 2000–01 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest 13 7 6 Lost in Conf. Finals
SAS 2001–02 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest 10 4 6 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
SAS 2002–03 82 60 22 .732 1st in Midwest 24 16 8 Won NBA Championship
SAS 2003–04 82 57 25 .695 2nd in Midwest 10 6 4 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
SAS 2004–05 82 59 23 .720 1st in Southwest 23 16 7 Won NBA Championship
SAS 2005–06 82 63 19 .768 1st in Southwest 13 7 6 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
SAS 2006–07 82 58 24 .707 2nd in Southwest 20 16 4 Won NBA Championship
SAS 2007–08 82 56 26 .683 2nd in Southwest 17 9 8 Lost in Conf. Finals
SAS 2008–09 82 54 28 .659 1st in Southwest 5 1 4 Lost in First Round
Career 1016 686 330 .675 165 102 63

My favorite story...

Popovich over the years has gained a reputation as a surly interviewee and a testy dealer with the media. In a 2007 interview with Craig Sager of TNT, Popovich ignored a question by Sager regarding a current game and outwardly questioned Sager's professionalism. In various in-game interviews, Popovich has been known for giving extremely short and sarcastic answers, as well as appropriately simplistic responses to reporters' obvious questions.

PG-Isiah
SG-Kobe
SF-"Big Game" James
PF-Dirk
C-Lanier
G-DJ
F/C-Daugherty

Coach-Popovich

Just like Kobe this season...this one's bringing home a championship...
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:31 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:
However, I wonder: can Swerb have both Tony Parker and Ron Artest on his bench? I thought one had to be a F/C.



I think we decided just to leave it to the discretion of the picker. He's got two great bench guards, but when people vote they'll also look at his lack of a big on the bench. It's all strategery as ol Dubyah would say.

Also, if noles and Larvell could go ahead and pick I wouldn't hold it against them. I'm ready for them to no doubt take at least one of the 2 coaches I'm looking at.

Elgin Baylor is playing all 48 for me. And is actually more of a 4 than a 3. Slide him over when I gotta rest Gasol or Howard.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:21 pm

noles picked well over 3 hours ago, so I'm jumping Larvell.


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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:32 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:noles picked well over 3 hours ago, so I'm jumping Larvell.


“Don’t ever underestimate the heart of a champion."

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Rudy Tomjanovich as the coach

I draw you first round, I'm adding Kermit Washington to my bench.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:46 pm

I draw you first round, I'm adding Kermit Washington to my bench.



I was trying to think of how to answer that challenge, but you've already got Artest.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:10 am

its been awhile, so i'll go ahead and take my coach, a guy who has experience coaching a team of superstars. he was an assistant coach on the best team ever on a court, the "Dream Team", and the head coach of the 2nd best team ever put on a basketball court, the "Redeem Team"... Coach K.

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With Krzyzewski at the helm, Team USA reclaimed the gold medal at the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics with a 118-107 victory over Spain. Krzyzewski guided the U.S. squad to a perfect 8-0 record in the Olympics as the team averaged 106 points per game while winning by an average margin of 27.9 points per contest. In the summer of 2007, he guided the USA squad to a gold medal victory and an unblemished 10-0 record in the FIBA Americas Championship.


"[Coach K] is everything I thought he would be and more. I have been excited and waiting for this opportunity for a long time. Playing for him now, you realize why he is such a great coach. He communicates extremely well with his players. He’s very intense and has a passion for what he does and he has a great sense of humor."
— Kobe Bryant

"The first thing is communication, which he does very well because he likes to teach. He makes things easy because he gives you what he wants to see out there, which makes it easy for a point guard. I think he would do great in the NBA, but we all know that he has a great gig at Duke."
— Jason Kidd

"Getting to know him off the floor means more than anything to me. Everyone knows Coach K as a basketball coach, but not everyone knows how good he is as a person. It’s all about comfort level with me. I feel comfortable around him, and that allows me to open up a little bit more. That’s good for me."
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Swerb Cp and back around

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:51 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:you have to take into account injury-proneness, so Walton went about where he should have. maybe he was a bargain in rd. 6, but he probably wasn't the steal of the draft


I was under the impression teams were compared by considering players at their peak and without injury.

At least, IIRC that was the established criteria.


I thought it was assumed, but yes that was my personal intention in all this, for everybody's teams to be viewed upon as all at their best and healthy. IMO it makes no sense to assume otherwise?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:03 am

I should have time Thursday or Friday to make one more spreadsheet with some team totals so it is easy to view, and copy/paste.

Total team PERs (PPG, RPG, APG)
Avg PER/player

Then an AVG PPG/RPG/APG stat line.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby pup » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:35 am

And it appears we will have something from whatifsports.com to use.

Going to take some work. And it will only be a 7 game series for each round, not a full season, but will include box scores and what not.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:19 am

FUDU on the first page you have me taking Chris Webber in the 8th round, he went in the 6th.
Sorry for the delay, I had to leave work early and had a family emergancy last night.

I'll have to do a write up later but the man to run my team one of the winningest coaches of all time and knows the game of my point guard inside and out. If not for the Jordan Bulls, he'd have a ring or two

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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:52 am

Corrected Larvel.

Anybody heard or seen Buckeye lately, he has a few open picks that need filled?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:53 am

Pup I looked into that whatifsports and IIRC they required 12 man rosters. I personally didn't feel like investing the time to do it with a 12 man roster seeing as our draft is only a 7 man one.

You have different news or thoughts on that place?
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm Brit and buckeye

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:18 am

Has Herminator taken his turn yet?


coach I choose

Don Nelson

over 1200 wins 7 division titles coach of the year 3 times 9 50+ win seasons
what more do you need

(*in before A CHAMPIONSHIP)

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SF - Chris Mullin
PF - Carlos Boozer
C - Artis Gilmore

Bench - Bobby Jones
Bench - Darrell Griffith

Coach - Don Nelson
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: Herm ,buckey jfiling

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:30 am

For head coach, my hire is: Dick Motta. A hard-driving disciplinarian and a great defensive mind, Coach Motta only won one Championship- at Washington in 1978- but he experienced great success at three different stops. He was the architect of the gritty Bulls teams of the early '70s that featured Jerry Sloan, Norm Van Lier, Bob Love and Chet Walker. He moved to Washington and turned a perennial underachiever into a World Champion. In the 1980's, with a little help from Ted Stepien, he constructed the Dallas Mavericks into one of the top teams in the Western Conference. Sure, he had a losing career record (935-1,017) but hell, so did Connie Mack.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/mottadi99c.html

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Re: NBA Greats Draft: buckey, jfiling, TW, FUDU

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:25 pm

The Coach K pick brings up an interesting question? Did we not have to pick players that played in the NBA? Could I have picked a non-NBA player? Cause if so I have a change to my roster I'd like to make.
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Re: NBA Greats Draft: buckey, jfiling, TW, FUDU

Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:27 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:The Coach K pick brings up an interesting question? Did we not have to pick players that played in the NBA? Could I have picked a non-NBA player? Cause if so I have a change to my roster I'd like to make.

You have your eye on Sheryl Swoopes?
jfiling
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