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Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

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Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:49 pm

8 Draft picks and three experienced veteran NFL players from the Savage leftovers.

Yet the bitchin and wailin has been an endless ceaseless torrent of blabberin suck.

Just goes to prove you morons don't know football players from your own pieholes.

Yeah we got some prospects at safety corner linebacker and running back , who didn't .

But net we landed four starters with our first pick

ROBO Mack Elam and the former Jet DE will start.

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB for playing time and make sure if we ever get to our third QB we'll never get Dorseyed again.

All of which came on the draft day trades from five to 21.

and

JB just shut the Fuck up about Veikune.

He's the same sort of prospect the inbred have deveolped against us nonstop for Years.

Dude is a football player benched more reps than every lineman in the draft ten more reps than Mulauaga has better hips than Orpako at the same size and we're paying him #52 money instead of top five jack.

Wimbleys puppy ass is gonna have to fight him off for playing time , and he's gonna lose.

oh

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.

Out


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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jfiling » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm

I'm not sure I understand it all, but I agree with what I do. Solid draft, which is far better than a sexy draft that blows up in our face. I don't see any Jeremiah Pharms, motorcycle madmen, big-headed idiots, drunks, or potential reaches for busts there.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby yogi » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:13 pm

+1 with SD. I'm in.

We have a good shot at making 1 weakness a strength. (Center)

We also eliminated a lot of holes with decent NFL ballers.

We added some potentials.

Whats not to like? Not getting a harder hitting and faster Andra Davis? Missing tackles and filling the wrong holes?
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:29 pm

Trade is fine if you view Elam as a high 2nd rounder (maybe better, if he is a starting S in his prime) and Coleman is probably the equivalent of a 4th rounder that works out (3-4 solid years as a starter). Plus a throw in 5th or 6th rounder (Ratliff).
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:32 pm

The bitching needs to stop.

The Browns team philosophy has changed. This team is going to be based on smart, self-less, hardworking team players. Obviously, if you go in this direction, you have to pass on talent that doesn't meet your requirements.

Mulauaga wasn't going to fit this team concept. So they passed on him.

The old browns were about having big name players at 7 key positions, and the old drafts reflected that. So did the win loss records.

The new browns are about having hard working talent spread over ALL positions. A star QB and WR do you no good if you're center is lying on his ass.

Notice how everyone they drafted was a senior and most were academically gifted?

This team will value a guy like Mack or Veikune higher then ESPN will. Its a different approach. I'm not saying you have to be on board with the new philosophy, but you should understand it. Its how things are going to be for a while.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jameseboy » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:59 pm

This team had more holes than swiss cheese. Making a move and adding multiple starters was brilliant. Maybe they can win a couple of games and maybe not but they moved a lot closer to being a football team.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:19 pm

Commodore Perry wrote:The bitching needs to stop.

The Browns team philosophy has changed. This team is going to be based on smart, self-less, hardworking team players. Obviously, if you go in this direction, you have to pass on talent that doesn't meet your requirements.

Mulauaga wasn't going to fit this team concept. So they passed on him.

The old browns were about having big name players at 7 key positions, and the old drafts reflected that. So did the win loss records.

The new browns are about having hard working talent spread over ALL positions. A star QB and WR do you no good if you're center is lying on his ass.

Notice how everyone they drafted was a senior and most were academically gifted?

This team will value a guy like Mack or Veikune higher then ESPN will. Its a different approach. I'm not saying you have to be on board with the new philosophy, but you should understand it. Its how things are going to be for a while.


Well said.

I will say this: Either philosophy works IF you get the right guys. The old regime(s) didn't. Time will tell if this one did. And I think when people give it some thought and let it sink in they'll understand it a bit more. I certainly didn't understand the first two selections at the time. But when you look at what they did from a philosophy standpoint, it makes a lot of sense.

I'll still stand on the statement that someone on that roster needs to step up and be the guy that drives this team. Hopefully a kid like Quinn, who's exhibited some leadership characteristics in his couple years here, will be one of those guys.

Still interested to see who steps into that role, if anyone, on the defensive side of the ball.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jack_tors » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:31 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Commodore Perry wrote:The bitching needs to stop.

The Browns team philosophy has changed. This team is going to be based on smart, self-less, hardworking team players. Obviously, if you go in this direction, you have to pass on talent that doesn't meet your requirements.

Mulauaga wasn't going to fit this team concept. So they passed on him.

The old browns were about having big name players at 7 key positions, and the old drafts reflected that. So did the win loss records.

The new browns are about having hard working talent spread over ALL positions. A star QB and WR do you no good if you're center is lying on his ass.

Notice how everyone they drafted was a senior and most were academically gifted?

This team will value a guy like Mack or Veikune higher then ESPN will. Its a different approach. I'm not saying you have to be on board with the new philosophy, but you should understand it. Its how things are going to be for a while.


Well said.

I will say this: Either philosophy works IF you get the right guys. The old regime(s) didn't. Time will tell if this one did. And I think when people give it some thought and let it sink in they'll understand it a bit more. I certainly didn't understand the first two selections at the time. But when you look at what they did from a philosophy standpoint, it makes a lot of sense.

I'll still stand on the statement that someone on that roster needs to step up and be the guy that drives this team. Hopefully a kid like Quinn, who's exhibited some leadership characteristics in his couple years here, will be one of those guys.

Still interested to see who steps into that role, if anyone, on the defensive side of the ball.


+1

I see the philosophy and respect it because I am not sure if there was even a philosophy around these parts the last few seasons. My only concern was the picks in the second round. The more I read, the more I like Mack as the offensive line should be solid with Mack, Steinbach, and Thomas anchoring it. I would have just like to seen more defense taken in the second round, especially since there are concerns with both of the WR's, especially Massaquoi.

I hope it works out, I really do because I am sick of losing.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:46 pm

Not sure we're going to challenge for the division this year, but I don't think we'll suck. I think it's more likely we lose several heartbreakers but are in most every game.

Solid draft and dead nuts on about the Steelers developing guys like Veikune under our nose for years. I think we took Veikune because of the thought that the Steelers would've picked him up before our next pick. The guy doesn't take plays off and is a tireless worker. You want guys that don't quit and I agree that he'll challenge Wimbley. Mangini is probably hoping that that challenge will make Wimbley better. I hope so as well.

Two starters from the Jets. Ratliff won't challenge for the starting job but he could be the #2 guy. He's an up and comer, one of those guys that not a lot of the average joes have heard of that ends up surprising you when he does play.

A starter at center. Two starting WRs. A RB that will get plenty of PT and is not afraid to go right up the middle behind our new, good center - and this guy would've gone much higher last year. He was less utilized at Clemson this year just as Robiskie was at Ohio State.

And we also picked up two guys that will at least push to start at LB. Can't say much bad about those cornerbacks either.

So we added a DE, two LBs, two CBs, and a S - and all will either start or push for time pretty quickly.

We got two starting WRs, a starting C, and a guy who will be an improvement over Wright at RB (I see Lewis, Harrison, and Davis all getting plenty of opportunities).

Brady Quinn now will be better protected and have more targets. His running game will be better. He will be able to stretch the field with Braylon AND have two guys not afraid to get hit while going up the middle in Massaquoi and Robiskie. Robiskie is the perfect #2 and Massaquoi has #1 potential. Cribbs can also still come in and play slot. We're okay at TE. Davis has good hands and can receive out of the backfield.

Seems that Mangini wants to be sure his QB doesn't get killed. Ball control offense to rest the defense.

Someone FINALLY knows what they want to do. Someone FINALLY isn't just drooling over players and hoping they can somehow smush them all together and form a team.

Mangini is building a REAL team folks. My optimism in the past has come with a little doubting voice in my head since the Butch days. I can't hear that little voice. This draft has greatly increased my confidence in Mangini. He is going to calmly put together a winner.

See how the Steelers and Pats know how to find those hidden talents and just keep on reloading. That's how it will now be in Browns Town.

We're going to get a NBA title, probably more than that. We're also going the be getting a Super Bowl in less than five years. The only one I'm not sure of is the Tribe right now.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby contagious216 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:00 am

I think we are all forgetting one thing, we need to collectively step back and remind ourselves that Kaluka Maiava is the nephew of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Thanks Wikipedia.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby fundamentals » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:46 am

Not sure what to make of the draft, but I know this, the Browns sucked last year and let's give the new leadership a chance to either make this team better. If these picks/moves don't work out, the franchise doesn't have much further to fall. :hide:
Last edited by fundamentals on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:47 am

Agree SD. Nice draft when you add in the quality players we got from the Jets. I really like Ratliff and we were hot over Elam.

What can't be overlooked is with 6 former Jets defenders the learning curve is going to minimal. This defense will be ready to ball in week 1.

We've got a boat load of young corners now to compete for roster spots.

We have Wimbley, Hall, Jackson, Bell, and the new guys to battle for roster spots at linebacker.

We are 3 deep at QB.

We added a quality banger at RB.

We completely replenished our WR corps.

We didn't trade away any talent.

We added a fixture at C, to go along with Thomas and Steinbach.

Competition everywhere for starting time.

I could whine about the 2nd WR pick but sometimes you just have to trust the front office brains.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:26 am

-1

Mack will be fine, but the rest of the draft is questionable, at best. Hopefully James Davis will be a hidden gem. Elam may start, but the other guys? Those guys are starters on only a few teams in the league, and it ain't the top ones. The Hawaiian Nightmare will challenge for a starting job because he bench presses a Buick? Really? Ask Mike Kudla. Better hips? Come on. That should be a huge, glaring, sign there is a problem. Your second round pick has good hips. HA!

Count me as one of the clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet. The O-line is improving, but there is no one to run or throw to. There is one decent linebacker, and he is old. Let's pray that Rogers doesn't disappear like he did with the Lions, odds are good he will.

If they land a RB and a LB through a trade, then my hopes will rise. Until then, the only thing they will contend for will be another top 10 pick next April.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby bw » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:56 am

We signed Elam to an offer sheet earlier in the year and then the Jets matched it. Sounds like a pretty good dealio to me.

And maybe we didn't get the marquee names but who did? This was not a godd Draft class, peeps. I do not believe anybody out there, nobody else in the League can be overly thrilled with what they walked away with after this draft. So while we didn't improve our team by leaps and bounds, neither did anybody else. Especially in our division.

Not Pittsburgh. Their O-Line and D-Line are starting to show weakness and the Stoolers can be had. Believe it.

Not the Rats. They lost more this year than they gained. They drafted depth more than they did starters. Sure, they were a good team last year, but it's not the same team. Teams will learn, they'll get the lowdown on Flacco and their weak receiving corps and their Running game is over-rated. The Rats didn't help themselves at all, IMO.

The Bungals?? Well, they're the Bungals. Andre Smith is a good football plyer but Cedric Benson has proved he's not ready for prime time so I don't see any great running game coming out of Cincy this year. Maualuga was the most over-rated player in the draft. I have no idea what the hell they're going to do with him in a 3-4. And that DE they drafted? Where does he fit in a 3-4??

Seems to me that Cincy just grabbed players with no though to how they're going to fit into their system.

Us? My thoughts all along have been that we weren't as bad as our record last year. Injuries and a lack of leadership from the coaching staff is what brought us down. That, and a complete loss of confidence by our QBs in the O-Line's ability to protect them. And even if they did protect them and the QB got the pass off, certain receivers were more interested in making the 'Holy Shit' reception and YAC for the ESPN hi-lite reel than they were in playing winning football. Which resulted in a lot of drops. One of the prime offenders is gone, one is still here but he may be gone if he doesn't get his shit together. And sooner rather than later.

The QB we got from the Jets? I'm thinking he won't compete for the starting QB slot as much as he will be the backup (and a good one) for the ultimate winner of the job with the loser being traded. Come TC, their will be QBs that, a) Just don't work out or, b) Get injured. Every year. Every.Single.Year. There will be a team that thinks this is 'their' year and they will lose a QB for whatever reason. And we'll have a good one just sitting.

Given what we started with and what we ended up with and considering the quality of the Draft class, I'm giving our FO an A- on this one.

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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:03 am

Erie Warrior wrote:-1

Mack will be fine, but the rest of the draft is questionable, at best. Hopefully James Davis will be a hidden gem. Elam may start, but the other guys? Those guys are starters on only a few teams in the league, and it ain't the top ones. The Hawaiian Nightmare will challenge for a starting job because he bench presses a Buick? Really? Ask Mike Kudla. Better hips? Come on. That should be a huge, glaring, sign there is a problem. Your second round pick has good hips. HA!

Count me as one of the clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet. The O-line is improving, but there is no one to run or throw to. There is one decent linebacker, and he is old. Let's pray that Rogers doesn't disappear like he did with the Lions, odds are good he will.

If they land a RB and a LB through a trade, then my hopes will rise. Until then, the only thing they will contend for will be another top 10 pick next April.


Agreed they need RB and LB help, however, there isn't a position on the field they didn't need help at. Even with the extra picks, there is only so much you can do.

I'm not sure how all the players they got this weekend are going to workout, but I do know that they did NOT draft one guy at a position they DID NOT need help in.

The last 10 years ain't Mangini's fault. Despite the fact we all don't want another rebuild, the roster cries otherwise.

And for those of you who thought they were close, and didn't need to rebuild - there's a difference between patching things up and hopefully improving because you fell into the last place-shitty schedule situation. I'd like to build a strong team that isn't schedule dependant. Remember the days of the Schottenheimer teams? Nobody gave a shit about the schedule becuae those teams could compete with anyone - this is what I'm looking for, not a decent, every third year wonder because the schedule sucks team.

I will say this, how in the world does Mangini make all that cash when so many people know how to build an NFL team better than he?

Romeo was allowed to prove that he couldn't handle the job. At least Mangini should be able to prove he F'd up, before people go apeshit about petty things like a mural on the wall or how he treats the local known malcontents.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:52 am

Lead Pipe wrote:
Agreed they need RB and LB help, however, there isn't a position on the field they didn't need help at. Even with the extra picks, there is only so much you can do.

I'm not sure how all the players they got this weekend are going to workout, but I do know that they did NOT draft one guy at a position they DID NOT need help in.



It ain't the what, Pipe, it's the who. Specifically in the second round. They identified WR and LB as points of need. Fine with me.

36th- Never hidden my man love for Rey, so that's my pick. If not him, why not go Sintim or E. Brown as a pass rusher/ OLB?

50th- Still need a WR, Pat Turner. Better than either Robiskie or Massoqui. I would have gone RB with Greene or McCoy

52nd- McCoy and Greene still on the board, as I would bet Massoqui and maybe Robiskie would be (no other WRs taken during that stretch)

For my money, I go Malauga/ Sintim, Turner, McCoy.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:13 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Agreed they need RB and LB help, however, there isn't a position on the field they didn't need help at. Even with the extra picks, there is only so much you can do.

I'm not sure how all the players they got this weekend are going to workout, but I do know that they did NOT draft one guy at a position they DID NOT need help in.



It ain't the what, Pipe, it's the who. Specifically in the second round. They identified WR and LB as points of need. Fine with me.

36th- Never hidden my man love for Rey, so that's my pick. If not him, why not go Sintim or E. Brown as a pass rusher/ OLB?

50th- Still need a WR, Pat Turner. Better than either Robiskie or Massoqui. I would have gone RB with Greene or McCoy

52nd- McCoy and Greene still on the board, as I would bet Massoqui and maybe Robiskie would be (no other WRs taken during that stretch)

For my money, I go Malauga/ Sintim, Turner, McCoy.


SD:
Massoqui , has it all over Turner in both size and speed. Brian Dabol our offensive coach personally worked him out and found him sneaky quick out of his breaks and able to translate his lessons both on the field and in the classroom.

The inbred and Patriots bypassed Mualuaga along with us , and were hotter on Viekune , who has a pass rush move from the outside and more strength than Rey .

Dude resembles Harrison and Woodley in his size to weight ration , has NFL lineman type strength and moves on the ball like a safety, which easily eclipses and negates Reys value and magnifies his weakness and deficiencies in pass coverage.

Sintcum ...bah humbug.

Kid can't carry the Hawaiin Vikings Jock as a pass rusher.

Further by taking the RB later in the draft we netted two wideouts who can contriute tihs year as the number two receiver or out of the slot , and insurance at the #1 spot if Braylon goes numbnutts ala last year.

The draft is real time , picked on Saturday and Sunday in minutes and seconds , not the next day in your easy chair picked at your leisure when you
get around to pulling your thumbs outta your ass.


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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:15 am

50th- Still need a WR, Pat Turner. Better than either Robiskie or Massoqui. I would have gone RB with Greene or McCoy



Pat Turner, the USC WR billed as inconsistent and not living up to his talent at USC? Just what this team would need. Gimme the guy who can run routes and catch, we already got an inconsistent WR.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby yogi » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:19 am

It ain't the what, Pipe, it's the who. Specifically in the second round. They identified WR and LB as points of need. Fine with me.

36th- Never hidden my man love for Rey, so that's my pick. If not him, why not go Sintim or E. Brown as a pass rusher/ OLB?

50th- Still need a WR, Pat Turner. Better than either Robiskie or Massoqui. I would have gone RB with Greene or McCoy

52nd- McCoy and Greene still on the board, as I would bet Massoqui and maybe Robiskie would be (no other WRs taken during that stretch)

For my money, I go Malauga/ Sintim, Turner, McCoy.


Bold words indeed for your opinion.

I understand liking your guy. But why blast the picks we did make as not as good as what you wanted? Dontcha think that these guys have seen a wee bit more film than you? No benefit of doubt even for our braintrust? You know better?
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:25 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
The draft is real time , picked on Saturday and Sunday in minutes and seconds , not the next day in your easy chair picked at your leisure when you
get around to pulling your thumbs outta your ass.


SoulDawg


No it's not. The work is done months before. Should be anyway.

Trying to, it's lodged in their next to Haloti Ngata.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:29 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
50th- Still need a WR, Pat Turner. Better than either Robiskie or Massoqui. I would have gone RB with Greene or McCoy



Pat Turner, the USC WR billed as inconsistent and not living up to his talent at USC? Just what this team would need. Gimme the guy who can run routes and catch, we already got an inconsistent WR.


Exactly, Turner was less productive than either of them, and never even came slose to his billing coming out of high school.

People said a few years ago that Mays absolutely put his lights out one day in practice and he still isn't the same.

I can understand some critism of Massaqua(sp) I've seen alot of him, and am not too thrilled with the pick. But Turner is not above Robo, and I would be surprised if ha had a better career than Mo Mass.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:31 am

yogi wrote:
Bold words indeed for your opinion.

I understand liking your guy. But why blast the picks we did make as not as good as what you wanted? Dontcha think that these guys have seen a wee bit more film than you? No benefit of doubt even for our braintrust? You know better?


I hope. I will gladly use the title Draft A-Hole if Mankok gets it right. Gladly.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby davemanddd » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:01 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:8 Draft picks and three experienced veteran NFL players from the Savage leftovers.

Yet the bitchin and wailin has been an endless ceaseless torrent of blabberin suck.

Just goes to prove you morons don't know football players from your own pieholes.

Yeah we got some prospects at safety corner linebacker and running back , who didn't .

But net we landed four starters with our first pick

ROBO Mack Elam and the former Jet DE will start.

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB for playing time and make sure if we ever get to our third QB we'll never get Dorseyed again.

All of which came on the draft day trades from five to 21.

and

JB just shut the Fuck up about Veikune.

He's the same sort of prospect the inbred have deveolped against us nonstop for Years.

Dude is a football player benched more reps than every lineman in the draft ten more reps than Mulauaga has better hips than Orpako at the same size and we're paying him #52 money instead of top five jack.

Wimbleys puppy ass is gonna have to fight him off for playing time , and he's gonna lose.

oh

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.

Out


SoulDawg


i wish i could be as wildly optimistic as you are. unfortunately, i am once bitten, twice shy. it's been 45 years and counting since any of our sports teams have won a title and so i can't help but be skeptical until such time that one of our teams finally comes through and wins a freaking title. until such time, i will remain cautiously optimistic at best. i will root like hell and hope for the best, but you better believe i will criticize when it's warranted. i just don't bitch to bitch. at the same time, i will praise when it's due too. so anyways, at this time i'm in full "wait-and-see" mode.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:09 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Pat Turner, the USC WR billed as inconsistent and not living up to his talent at USC? Just what this team would need. Gimme the guy who can run routes and catch, we already got an inconsistent WR.


"Simply drops too many passes. Prone to lapses in concentration or not looking the pass into his hands before trying to make a defender miss. Allows passes into his frame too often, resulting in some ugly bounce-backs. Bit of a long-strider with build-up speed. Lacks elite foot quickness and agility to consistently gain separation from NFL-caliber cornerbacks. Tends to disappear for long stretches."

Sounds inconsistent to me.

If you love Robo or Massoqui, fine, I'm pretty sure they would have been there. I'll take the bigger guy who still runs good routes, can get off of bump n' run coverage and has good hands. I think Turner compares better to JJ than the guys that were drafted.

And I'd bet the Hawaii guy would have been there in the 3rd as well. I think the Browns reached too far for their 2nd rounders. And they still don't have a RB or LB.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:13 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Pat Turner, the USC WR billed as inconsistent and not living up to his talent at USC? Just what this team would need. Gimme the guy who can run routes and catch, we already got an inconsistent WR.


Guess who:

Negatives: Simply drops too many passes. Prone to lapses in concentration or not looking the pass into his hands before trying to make a defender miss. Allows passes into his frame too often, resulting in some ugly bounce-backs. Bit of a long-strider with build-up speed. Lacks elite foot quickness and agility to consistently gain separation from NFL-caliber cornerbacks. Tends to disappear for long stretches.

If you love Robo or Massoqui, fine, I'm pretty sure they would have been there. I'll take the bigger guy who still runs good routes, can get off of bump n' run coverage and has good hands. I think Turner compares better to JJ than the guys that were drafted.


Again, certain things being relatively equal, Mo Mass still out produced Turner, and that was playing without an Oline in UGA for the last two season.

Mass would have been there, but Robo would not have been.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:17 pm

I like what happened in the draft. Even if I didn't, I'd still give our professional organization the benefit of the doubt.

They're GMs, scouts, and coaches who have access to information we do not. We are the public with a shitload of opinions. That's it. Opinions.

Let's see what happens. Go Browns.
4thQtrGlory wrote:If we got all that, i would hang a browns flag from my boner for 2 weeks straight...
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:04 pm

[
"Simply drops too many passes. Prone to lapses in concentration or not looking the pass into his hands before trying to make a defender miss. Allows passes into his frame too often, resulting in some ugly bounce-backs. Bit of a long-strider with build-upspeed. Lacks elite foot quickness and agility to consistently gain separation from NFL-caliber cornerbacks. Tends to disappear for long stretches."

Sounds inconsistent to me.

EW >

If you love Robo or Massoqui, fine, I'm pretty sure they would have been there. I'll take the bigger guy who still runs good routes, can get off of bump n' run coverage and has good hands. I think Turner compares better to JJ than the guys that were drafted.

And I'd bet the Hawaii guy would have been there in the 3rd as well. I think the Browns reached too far for their 2nd rounders. And they still don't have a RB or LB.

SD:

You can shut the Fuck up with your bullshit about what we should have done in the third , or who would have gone where in the third round.

We didn't have a third , hence we took the Viking at 52 , via the extra pick we netted in trading down with the Jets ,before he was scooped up when we picked again in the fourth.

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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:46 pm

Fair enough, erase 3rd and insert 4th. Still a huge stretch in the second.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:01 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:Fair enough, erase 3rd and insert 4th. Still a huge stretch in the second.


A slight stretch for sure. I saw him being prokected in the 3rd, so maybe it would have been good to trade down, but if you like the guy, and have no takers on the trade down, you take him. All that matters is if he produces now.

If he does, no one will give two shits that we reached 15-30 slots to get him.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:23 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:Fair enough, erase 3rd and insert 4th. Still a huge stretch in the second.


SD:

See this is what makes you a second guessing 20/20 hindsight mumbling mutha fuckin Jackasswho can't dicern real time decisions from monday morning Quarterbacking.

Who in the fourth which was our next earliest pick had his talent that we could have replaced him with .

Further you have not one shred of credible evidence , other than repeating the same dribble from the jaw jackin fools like yourself that Viekune could had made it past either the Pats or the inbred in the second let alone the other 11 teams converting to the 34.

His pick in, fact triggered defensive players going off the board in mass in the second , with both Chicago and Dallas poised and ready to make a splash in the third.

Real time you'd have been shut out had the team followed your bullshit script on what they should have done.


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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:33 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

See this is what makes you a second guessing 20/20 hindsight mumbling mutha fuckin Jackasswho can't dicern real time decisions from monday morning Quarterbacking.

Who in the fourth which was our next earliest pick had his talent that we could have replaced him with .

Further you have not one shred of credible evidence , other than repeating the same dribble from the jaw jackin fools like yourself that Viekune could had made it past either the Pats or the inbred in the second let alone the other 11 teams converting to the 34.

His pick in, fact triggered defensive players going off the board in mass in the second , with both Chicago and Dallas poised and ready to make a splash in the third.

Real time you'd have been shut out had the team followed your bullshit script on what they should have done.


SoulDawg


Says you. Your guess is as good as mine, or from what I've read in some of you're previous posts, worse. I hope the dude is LT junior. I don't think he is.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Danny Tanner » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:45 pm

SD you need to shut the fuck up and respect peoples opinions you are acting like a 3rd grader with all the name calling.


The two WR were a hung reach in my mind and anything is going to change that. With the other talent left on the board and we take two average WR is not going to cut it for me.
Last edited by Danny Tanner on Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Lubber » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:55 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

See this is what makes you a second guessing 20/20 hindsight mumbling mutha fuckin Jackasswho can't dicern real time decisions from monday morning Quarterbacking.

Who in the fourth which was our next earliest pick had his talent that we could have replaced him with .

Further you have not one shred of credible evidence , other than repeating the same dribble from the jaw jackin fools like yourself that Viekune could had made it past either the Pats or the inbred in the second let alone the other 11 teams converting to the 34.

His pick in, fact triggered defensive players going off the board in mass in the second , with both Chicago and Dallas poised and ready to make a splash in the third.

Real time you'd have been shut out had the team followed your bullshit script on what they should have done.


SoulDawg


Says you. Your guess is as good as mine, or from what I've read in some of you're previous posts, worse. I hope the dude is LT junior. I don't think he is.



Erie, I think you might need to step back and look at big picture, and not just one or two guys. I do not think the Browns are looking for LT jr. Rather, they are looking for 22 pieces of a puzzle that will connect together and play as one cohesive unit. It does not matter if Rey was available in the 4th round, we would not have drafted him. He does not have the character Mangini is looking for. Did they reach in the 2nd? Probably. But as it has been said here, there is no guarantee those guys would of been around for their next pick. The only thing they could guarantee was that they could take them then and there. Mangini is following the Steelers/Patriots draft textbook to a tee. Now it just depends on how well they can coach the guys up in the fall in regards to how successful it will turn out. Barring any major injuries, I see us qucikly becoming a .500 or better team this year of next.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:07 pm

Danny Tanner wrote:SD you need to shut the fuck up and instead of always calling names and trying to prove what other think wrong come up with your own ideas and opinions of things. I guess you agreed with every single move the Browns made in this draft?


SD:

Heres my position again , just in case you were too dumb to read it the first time .

""8 Draft picks and three experienced veteran NFL players from the Savage leftovers.

Yet the bitchin and wailin has been an endless ceaseless torrent of blabberin suck.

Just goes to prove you morons don't know football players from your own pieholes.

Yeah we got some prospects at safety corner linebacker and running back , who didn't .

But net we landed four starters with our first pick

ROBO Mack Elam and the former Jet DE will start.

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB for playing time and make sure if we ever get to our third QB we'll never get Dorseyed again.

All of which came on the draft day trades from five to 21.

and

JB just shut the Fuck up about Veikune.

He's the same sort of prospect the inbred have deveolped against us nonstop for Years.

Dude is a football player benched more reps than every lineman in the draft ten more reps than Mulauaga has better hips than Orpako at the same size and we're paying him #52 money instead of top five jack.

Wimbleys puppy ass is gonna have to fight him off for playing time , and he's gonna lose.

oh

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.

Out """

Further I was on record that Sanchez was the swing
vote which put three NFL QB's on the clock with our pick .

Nobody real time expected the Browns to fill all their glaring holes with 5 picks moir included.

But to step away with the something not seen since hershel walker rickey williams and it being done by the Browns is unprecedented in our history.

we netted Four starters in exchange for our 5 spot,
plus a developmental linebacker who will contribute on special teams rush the passer in nickel packages and may push Wimp to the bench and a develpmental QB which kicked our ass last preseason .

You got something better than that ,
bring it with your bad ass and shut me up,
otherwise step the fuck off with the other second guessing limp dick jackoff pseudo wannabee GM's
who come in here picking Sundays games with mondays newspaper, like they bad as all that.

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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:09 pm

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.


Wow.

Just wow.

Is this after the Steelers and Ravens complete filming for We Are Marshall II and III ?

Maybe some nice, safe, building blocks, but did you watch the AFC Championship game?
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:11 pm

Danny Tanner wrote:SD you need to shut the fuck up and respect peoples opinions you are acting like a 3rd grader with all the name calling.


Danny - He cusses too good to be 3rd grader. He's at least got a 9th grade Warren City Schools education.


I don't pay him no mind until the Browns lose their 5th game. Then he'll start making sense. From the draft until then he'd pretty much Bluto talking about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Ziner » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:12 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Danny Tanner wrote:SD you need to shut the fuck up and instead of always calling names and trying to prove what other think wrong come up with your own ideas and opinions of things. I guess you agreed with every single move the Browns made in this draft?


SD:

Heres my position again , just in case you were too dumb to read it the first time .

""8 Draft picks and three experienced veteran NFL players from the Savage leftovers.

Yet the bitchin and wailin has been an endless ceaseless torrent of blabberin suck.

Just goes to prove you morons don't know football players from your own pieholes.

Yeah we got some prospects at safety corner linebacker and running back , who didn't .

But net we landed four starters with our first pick

ROBO Mack Elam and the former Jet DE will start.

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB for playing time and make sure if we ever get to our third QB we'll never get Dorseyed again.

All of which came on the draft day trades from five to 21.

and

JB just shut the Fuck up about Veikune.

He's the same sort of prospect the inbred have deveolped against us nonstop for Years.

Dude is a football player benched more reps than every lineman in the draft ten more reps than Mulauaga has better hips than Orpako at the same size and we're paying him #52 money instead of top five jack.

Wimbleys puppy ass is gonna have to fight him off for playing time , and he's gonna lose.

oh

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.

Out """

Further I was on record that Sanchez was the swing
vote which put three NFL QB's on the clock with our pick .

Nobody real time expected the Browns to fill all their glaring holes with 5 picks moir included.

But to step away with the something not seen since hershel walker rickey williams and it being done by the Browns is unprecedented in our history.

we netted Four starters in exchange for our 5 spot,
plus a developmental linebacker who will contribute on special teams rush the passer in nickel packages and may push Wimp to the bench and a develpmental QB which kicked our ass last preseason .

You got something better than that ,
bring it with your bad ass and shut me up,
otherwise step the fuck off with the other second guessing limp dick jackoff pseudo wannabee GM's
who come in here picking Sundays games with mondays newspaper, like they bad as all that.

SoulDawg


Dude, once you remove your mouth from the ManKok, why dont you check out the bolded section and then bitch to more of us how we dont know dick about football. All your credibility left the forum with that sentence.

Thanks for coming.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:14 pm

Lubber wrote: Erie, I think you might need to step back and look at big picture, and not just one or two guys. I do not think the Browns are looking for LT jr. Rather, they are looking for 22 pieces of a puzzle that will connect together and play as one cohesive unit.


Lubber - you and I are not always on the same page as far as who we root for. ;-) ;) :wink:

But I certainly think you know your football and you really hit this nail on the head AFAIC. I believe that this will be a long-term trend. I also believe that for all of us criticizing all the dumb football and undisciplined players we saw under BOTH Butch and Phil, it is intellectually inconsistent to agrue against this approach.

I only hope the Algonquin Round Table we're putting together can stand toe to toe against the two nasties in the division when the blood begins to flow. Reciting X and O assignments isn't going to help you when you go against james Harrison and the refs are looking the other way. But the days of the Big Penny's, Wm Greens, and Leon Williams are gone.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Danny Tanner » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:20 pm

The Browns were the team to trade with in the draft and every team knew it. They were way over there heads with what they wanted to do. I am so sick of hearing we got 5 starters. Give me a break Coleman and Elam would not be starters on more then half the teams in the NFL. Same with the two WR we got. Plain and Simple they did not get enough for a top 5 NFL pick that gave another team in the AFC a franchise QB.


I really like the Mack pick and I am fine with that because it upgraded our C situation. But everything that happened to get to that point was not good to me. I am good with the kid from Hawaii and the USC LB also.

Again I will bring up passing on Rey and MCcoy will hunt the Browns for years to come. They could have found WR in FA when players get cut or could have drafted 2 WR just as good in the later rounds.


TO me this draft was all about money which is sad. There are owners how care about money and wins come second and then there are the owners who care about wins and then money. Learner needs to sell this team. The only hire I like so far is Rob Ryan. Mangini acts like he has already won something all we are is the Jets from last year pretty much now. I don't know about you but that does not excite me at all.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:23 pm

Ziner wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Danny Tanner wrote:SD you need to shut the fuck up and instead of always calling names and trying to prove what other think wrong come up with your own ideas and opinions of things. I guess you agreed with every single move the Browns made in this draft?


SD:

Heres my position again , just in case you were too dumb to read it the first time .

""8 Draft picks and three experienced veteran NFL players from the Savage leftovers.

Yet the bitchin and wailin has been an endless ceaseless torrent of blabberin suck.

Just goes to prove you morons don't know football players from your own pieholes.

Yeah we got some prospects at safety corner linebacker and running back , who didn't .

But net we landed four starters with our first pick

ROBO Mack Elam and the former Jet DE will start.

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB for playing time and make sure if we ever get to our third QB we'll never get Dorseyed again.

All of which came on the draft day trades from five to 21.

and

JB just shut the Fuck up about Veikune.

He's the same sort of prospect the inbred have deveolped against us nonstop for Years.

Dude is a football player benched more reps than every lineman in the draft ten more reps than Mulauaga has better hips than Orpako at the same size and we're paying him #52 money instead of top five jack.

Wimbleys puppy ass is gonna have to fight him off for playing time , and he's gonna lose.

oh

and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.

Out """

Further I was on record that Sanchez was the swing
vote which put three NFL QB's on the clock with our pick .

Nobody real time expected the Browns to fill all their glaring holes with 5 picks moir included.

But to step away with the something not seen since hershel walker rickey williams and it being done by the Browns is unprecedented in our history.

we netted Four starters in exchange for our 5 spot,
plus a developmental linebacker who will contribute on special teams rush the passer in nickel packages and may push Wimp to the bench and a develpmental QB which kicked our ass last preseason .

You got something better than that ,
bring it with your bad ass and shut me up,
otherwise step the fuck off with the other second guessing limp dick jackoff pseudo wannabee GM's
who come in here picking Sundays games with mondays newspaper, like they bad as all that.

SoulDawg


Dude, once you remove your mouth from the ManKok, why dont you check out the bolded section and then bitch to more of us how we dont know dick about football. All your credibility left the forum with that sentence.

Thanks for coming.


Ziner - by this:

Ratcliff the QB will push either starting QB


SD meant in a wheel chair after they get killed by John St Clair as our only RT.

But the weekend made the Browns better. I think. Still too many fatal holes.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:32 pm

JB wrote:
and for the rest of you clueless motherless whinnin jackoffs who aint got the message yet.

The Cleveland Browns will challenge for the divison this year.


Wow.

Just wow.

Is this after the Steelers and Ravens complete filming for We Are Marshall II and III ?

Maybe some nice, safe, building blocks, but did you watch the AFC Championship game?


SD:

Ain't got time to hold your hand and soft soap ya , so if your ledging just jump and get the fuck outta the way.

Last years news is as relevant as Dos 78 JB.

That roster is gone with 19 vets switched out like a GM retooling and reading for the 2010 models to roll out and that was before the draft.

In real time NFL rosters because of the cap, scheduling injury free agency the draft and coaching
year to year projections can indeed change that much.

We have a solid Oline with depth, a thousand yard running back , a replacement for Joe Viscious a true spped slot receiver who may have the talent to develop into a one if maylon gets squirrely, two QB's with expereince a 16 TD wideout when he aint playing Village people and the makings of a defense with people in the front office finally having a clue to what a Football team is which is just the opposite of a talent aquisition consortium, which we ran under Phil.

New coaches get that first year bounce.

Butch got it with far less talent .

He'd of killed his momma and sacrificed Peter garcia to field the team we have in place now.

We have the schedule which netted us 10 wins in 2007 with groves more talent more leaders, guys who know the defense and know what to do on the move and a front office and coaching staff in lock step .

Every piece has been brought in to play compete
or add immediate depth , not a fuckin project in sight
other than seeing if Viekune can do what we would have payed Orapko had we been dumb enough to pick him at 5 ala Philly Cheese and his perpetual project bullshit.

We filled needs with the BPA without reachin and without worrying about the fans little pussies hurtin over their decisions .

Mangy is the mutha fucka we been needin.

He took ahold of that draft like the tick grabs the bull by the balls with a down hill pull.



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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:36 pm

We have a solid Oline with depth,


nah. Not even close at RT .
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby bw » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:40 pm

I'm shickled titless that we got out of the #5 overall pick. There was nobody there that was worth it. Not by a long shot. Nobody. Not from #1 through #10 was there a pick I would have drafted at #5. Even Raji.

This way, we got a good player at Center in a position of dire need and picked up some players/possible starters from the J E T S.

Not to mention (leave it to me to think of this) -- There shouldn't be a holdout in TC this year. That can disrupt the hell out of things.

Unless.

There's a mandatory OTA coming up this weekend, I think. If BE plays the child, park his ass on the bench and fine him to hell and back. Not sure he'll hold out and play that game. I got a feeling that Mangini is not to be trifled with.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Danny Tanner » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:41 pm

As long as the Steelers and Ravens draft the way they do and are two of the best ran teams in the NFL year in an year out. Winning the divison is a pipe dream right now. The Steelers just won 2 super bowls in the spead of 4 years with two different coaches. If the Browns are trying to copy them it is going to take a better draft then what they gave us this year.


Also Jamal Lewis is done and he is not a 1,000 yard rusher anymore he got 1002 yards last year. Being a 1,000 is worth nothing anymore. If that is what a 1000 yard season looks like. Lewis is slow and can't even hit the holes anymore. I am just shocked when I seen he got 1000 yards last season. I did not know he got like 800 carries last year.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:47 pm

Danny Tanner wrote:As long as the Steelers and Ravens draft the way they do and are two of the best ran teams in the NFL year in an year out. Winning the divison is a pipe dream right now. The Steelers just won 2 super bowls in the spead of 4 years with two different coaches. If the Browns are trying to copy them it is going to take a better draft then what they gave us this year.


Also Jamal Lewis is done and he is not a 1,000 yard rusher anymore he got 1002 yards last year. Being a 1,000 is worth nothing anymore. If that is what a 1000 yard season looks like. Lewis is slow and can't even hit the holes anymore. I am just shocked when I seen he got 1000 yards last season. I did not know he got like 800 carries last year.


SD:

Lewis was hurt end of year and had surgery to clean out his ankle .

Moreover he got that thousand with Dorsey at QB Tucker on IR and Lady Shaffer at RT with Fraley being the dwarf in the dwarf toss agaisnt the NT in last years games. Harrison Vickers jamel and Ali and mangy's passion to run look for about 2100 -2500 yards outta our backs .

SoulDawg

with JD


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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby bw » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:47 pm

JB wrote:
We have a solid Oline with depth,


nah. Not even close at RT .


St Clair played OLT in Chicago and they wanted him stay and play at ORT. They offered him a 4.5 Million dollar contract but I guess that wasn't enough. ORTs are not typically highly paid but I guess da Bears wanted him bad enough to offer a contract to him.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:50 pm

Danny Tanner wrote:SD you need to shut the fuck up and respect peoples opinions you are acting like a 3rd grader with all the name calling.


The two WR were a hung reach in my mind and anything is going to change that.
With the other talent left on the board and we take two average WR is not going to cut it for me.


SD:

Stubborn stoopid and immutable to change is no way to go in life .

you gotta work out your own PP's honi.


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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:50 pm

Is this after the Steelers and Ravens complete filming for We Are Marshall II and III ?


Classic line.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby antikryct » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:54 pm

Ummm...Bullshit...

Danny Tanner wrote:The Browns were the team to trade with in the draft and every team knew it. They were way over there heads with what they wanted to do. I am so sick of hearing we got 5 starters. Give me a break Coleman and Elam would not be starters on more then half the teams in the NFL. Same with the two WR we got. Plain and Simple they did not get enough for a top 5 NFL pick that gave another team in the AFC a franchise QB.


a. They didn't want the 5 pick, they wanted to trade out of it for more picks. So let's not pretend they spent the last 3 month beating off, couldn't figure out who they wanted and threw up their hands taking the Jets offer.

b. While you may be right on the money about Coleman and Elam starting on only half the NFL teams out there, the fact remains they're better than what we got and they will start on ours.

They could have found WR in FA when players get cut or could have drafted 2 WR just as good in the later rounds.


Yeah, that worked brilliantly for us last year. Remind me...what were our biggest needs coming into this draft?

Mangini acts like he has already won something all we are is the Jets from last year pretty much now. I don't know about you but that does not excite me at all.


I'd prefer our coach act like a winner instead of the alternative. If he get us to the Jets of last year, I'd say we're on the upswing. It's at least a start.
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Re: Mangy took a Five and got Change for 11

Unread postby Lubber » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:55 pm

Danny Tanner wrote:As long as the Steelers and Ravens draft the way they do and are two of the best ran teams in the NFL year in an year out. Winning the divison is a pipe dream right now. The Steelers just won 2 super bowls in the spead of 4 years with two different coaches. If the Browns are trying to copy them it is going to take a better draft then what they gave us this year.

Also Jamal Lewis is done and he is not a 1,000 yard rusher anymore he got 1002 yards last year. Being a 1,000 is worth nothing anymore. If that is what a 1000 yard season looks like. Lewis is slow and can't even hit the holes anymore. I am just shocked when I seen he got 1000 yards last season. I did not know he got like 800 carries last year.


First off, we will not be able to do it in one year's draft. However, this year was a great start and if we can come away with ths many solid contributors every year, we will contend for the division title consistently.

Second off, Jamal Lewis IS a 1000 yard rusher. Now, certainly he has lost a step. But lets look at some facts. The second half of last season we basically played without any real passing threat, so the defenses were keying on Jamal. Yet he still managed to get 1000 yards. You may say 1000 is worth nothing. However, only 16 backs (50% of the NFL) attained 1000 yards last year. Jamal rushing average was only .3 less then LT. Is he as good as he used to be? No. But if we can get our passing game going, watch him get 1300+ yards this year
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