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by dazindiansfanuk » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:18 pm
by bookelly » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:25 pm

by cozmeesah » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:30 pm
by dazindiansfanuk » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:32 pm
Why didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
by peeker643 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:35 pm
by tribefan333 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:35 pm
by Eckersley » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:07 pm
tribefan333 wrote:That's a damn shame. I know people can be frustrated, but you have to feel for this kid.
Best of luck to him.

by consigliere » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:10 pm

by Mr. X » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:15 pm
Consigliere wrote::thud:
This really sucks. Not for the Indians, but for Miller. Very, very unfortunate for him and I feel for him. I know how hard he worked to come back last year and this offseason, but looks like the fat lady is warming up to call it a career for him. Damn.
by davemanddd » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:00 pm

by Eckersley » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:15 pm

by peeker643 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:26 pm
by ICSOL » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:51 pm
by leadpipe » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:34 pm
davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher, but i just can't help but wonder what might happen to miller after all is said and done that they needed to take some other sort of drastic measures and let's say "amputate" his chronically-injured middle finger???
i know that sounds just a bit morbid, but bear with me here and let me explain.
when tommy john first blew out his elbow, it was a pretty radical idea to even consider transplanting another ligament from another part of the body to replace the one that was blown out. 25 years later, it has become so commonplace, they do the surgery within an hour and the pitcher comes back better than ever in about a year.
former indians pitcher blob dickman not only had the tommy john surgery done, he also had a portion of one of his fingers amputated in a childhood farming incident that actually helped him throw a sinking fastball that made it so he couldn't even throw the ball straight if he wanted to. love him or hate him, the fact still remains that blob is the indians all-time career leader in saves and he saved a then single-season record of 45 games for the tribe in 2005 just 2 years after he had the tommy john surgery.
now then, one of the largest growing segments of the plastic surgery business is "toe removal surgery" in which women are actually having one of their toes removed (either their middle toe or their ring toe) so that they can fit into these ever more increasingly smaller pointy-toed shoes. it is my understanding that it actually makes it not only easier to fit into their shoes, but it also gives them better balance on the more spikier heels too.
furthermore, when that former so-called "one-armed pitcher" jim abbott was pitching for the angels and yankees, he often said that the only reason he threw left-handed was because he didn't have a right hand and so it just basically forced him to throw left-handed. so in other words, he (pardon the pun) adjusted to the hand he was dealt. at times, you could probably even say that he was better than most other normal-bodied pitchers. shoot, he even threw a no-hitter against the tribe in 1993.
i also have a friend who had 2 fingers on his hand cut off by an auger. while it certainly caused him to be disabled from his job, he actually is much better off now as he is a member of a professional fishing tour now and it's because he is missing those 2 fingers that he is now able to grip his rod and reel in a manner that people with all 5 fingers just can't and so it gives him a real competitive advantage and he has won many fishing tournaments and won a lot of money doing it too.
the point i'm trying to make here is that even with a disability, these people all seemed able to compensate for their problems and are actually better because of it. so why couldn't miller do the same??? i gotta believe that he could probably throw a mean split-fingered fastball or a change-up like nobody else before him then. i can just picture those old espn commercials that had the big unit randy johnson throwing something he called "the crazy ball"??? miller could call it his "star trek ball" or his "vulcan nerve pitch". hee-hee!!!
no but seriously though, don't get me wrong now. i would much rather see that miller keeps all his fingers intact and the tribe doctors finally get a handle on his problem, but if the worst possible scenario occurs, all may not be lost after all. we can only hope.
go tribe!!!
by Erie Warrior » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:20 pm


by bookelly » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:41 pm
...I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.
by Eckersley » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:46 pm

by OpusTPenguin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:48 pm
davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher, but i just can't help but wonder what might happen to miller after all is said and done that they needed to take some other sort of drastic measures and let's say "amputate" his chronically-injured middle finger???
i know that sounds just a bit morbid, but bear with me here and let me explain.
when tommy john first blew out his elbow, it was a pretty radical idea to even consider transplanting another ligament from another part of the body to replace the one that was blown out. 25 years later, it has become so commonplace, they do the surgery within an hour and the pitcher comes back better than ever in about a year.
former indians pitcher blob dickman not only had the tommy john surgery done, he also had a portion of one of his fingers amputated in a childhood farming incident that actually helped him throw a sinking fastball that made it so he couldn't even throw the ball straight if he wanted to. love him or hate him, the fact still remains that blob is the indians all-time career leader in saves and he saved a then single-season record of 45 games for the tribe in 2005 just 2 years after he had the tommy john surgery.
now then, one of the largest growing segments of the plastic surgery business is "toe removal surgery" in which women are actually having one of their toes removed (either their middle toe or their ring toe) so that they can fit into these ever more increasingly smaller pointy-toed shoes. it is my understanding that it actually makes it not only easier to fit into their shoes, but it also gives them better balance on the more spikier heels too.
furthermore, when that former so-called "one-armed pitcher" jim abbott was pitching for the angels and yankees, he often said that the only reason he threw left-handed was because he didn't have a right hand and so it just basically forced him to throw left-handed. so in other words, he (pardon the pun) adjusted to the hand he was dealt. at times, you could probably even say that he was better than most other normal-bodied pitchers. shoot, he even threw a no-hitter against the tribe in 1993.
i also have a friend who had 2 fingers on his hand cut off by an auger. while it certainly caused him to be disabled from his job, he actually is much better off now as he is a member of a professional fishing tour now and it's because he is missing those 2 fingers that he is now able to grip his rod and reel in a manner that people with all 5 fingers just can't and so it gives him a real competitive advantage and he has won many fishing tournaments and won a lot of money doing it too.
the point i'm trying to make here is that even with a disability, these people all seemed able to compensate for their problems and are actually better because of it. so why couldn't miller do the same??? i gotta believe that he could probably throw a mean split-fingered fastball or a change-up like nobody else before him then. i can just picture those old espn commercials that had the big unit randy johnson throwing something he called "the crazy ball"??? miller could call it his "star trek ball" or his "vulcan nerve pitch". hee-hee!!!
no but seriously though, don't get me wrong now. i would much rather see that miller keeps all his fingers intact and the tribe doctors finally get a handle on his problem, but if the worst possible scenario occurs, all may not be lost after all. we can only hope.
go tribe!!!
by Erie Warrior » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:49 pm
bookelly wrote:Actually, there was a guy named Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown who won 238 games for the Cubs with missing digits. He, and his strange deadly curveball, completely dominated to the tune of a 2.06 ERA (3rd all time).
So hey......I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.


by Pufferbelly » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:57 pm
Erie Warrior wrote:bookelly wrote:Actually, there was a guy named Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown who won 238 games for the Cubs with missing digits. He, and his strange deadly curveball, completely dominated to the tune of a 2.06 ERA (3rd all time).
So hey......I for one welcome Adam "Three-Finger" Miller to the rotation.
Still had his middle finger, and he lost the fingers when he was young, so he was able to adapt. I don't think Miller can adapt at this late stage. But I did learn something new today, thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordecai_Brown
by DrPoove » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:04 pm
by dazindiansfanuk » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:15 am
by WiscTribeFan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:40 am
davemanddd wrote:now this is purely speculation on my part, as i have no idea about anything when it comes to medical matters, nor on what it takes to be a major league pitcher,
by Prosecutor » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:37 am
by jb » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:58 am
Erie Warrior wrote:If he can't use his middle finger, he can't pitch.

by justmebd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:20 pm
by Steve Buffum » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:26 pm
justmebd wrote:On a more serious note, my brother made a good point. Doesn't "changing the throwing motion," as the original article indicates they may try and do, usually end in Tommy John surgery?
Just asking.

by justmebd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:55 pm
by swerb » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:16 pm
by OffBase » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:30 pm
dazindiansfanuk wrote:AC gives his takeWhy didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... e_lin.html

by jb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:56 am
OffBase wrote:dazindiansfanuk wrote:AC gives his takeWhy didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... e_lin.html
We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.
by OSU819903 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:20 pm
JB wrote:OffBase wrote:dazindiansfanuk wrote:AC gives his takeWhy didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... e_lin.html
We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.
Moonlight Graham?
Can he be our 5th starter?
by dazindiansfanuk » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:16 pm
by cozmeesah » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:48 pm
by dazindiansfanuk » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:49 pm
by bookelly » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:06 pm
- and I thought I was going to get to use this avatar every time we talked about Miller.
by cozmeesah » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:11 pm
But after nine throwing sessions, including three bullpens, Miller has had no pain, no inflammation and no further decreases in range of motion, and he's made enough incremental gains in command and velocity that the Indians now believe he might be able to avoid surgery.
"He's proven us wrong on all three fronts," head athletic trainer Lonnie Soloff said.
by dazindiansfanuk » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:13 pm
by gotribe31 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm
OSU819903 wrote:JB wrote:OffBase wrote:dazindiansfanuk wrote:AC gives his takeWhy didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... e_lin.html
We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.
Moonlight Graham?
Can he be our 5th starter?
I believe "Archibold 'Moonlight' Graham" was an outfielder who's only cup of coffee came late in the 1914 season for Connie Mack...and he never got to wink at the pitcher.


by dazindiansfanuk » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:31 pm
"Each time he's made improvement," said Soloff, "We've seen incremental gains in control, command and velocity."
Miller, according to Soloff, has changed his release point. Before his surgically repaired finger stiffened early in spring training, the ball came out of his right hand exclusively on the right middle finger. Now he's using his index finger as well.
"We can tell because there is a callus on the index finger," said Soloff.
Miller has been throwing fastballs and change-ups. He'll start throwing sliders today and Sunday in flat-ground sessions. On Monday he'll throw fastballs, change-ups and sliders off the mound.
"The next step will be batting practice or a simulated game," said Soloff.
Soloff said the Indians never thought Miller would get to this point. They felt surgery would be needed.
"To be honest with you," said Soloff, "we anticipated a failure in one of three parameters -- Adam having symptoms of pain or swelling, a change in the physical presentation of the finger regarding range of motion or inflammation or that he just wouldn't be able to do it.
"He's proven us wrong on all three fronts."
by OSU819903 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:44 pm
Gotribe31 wrote:OSU819903 wrote:JB wrote:OffBase wrote:dazindiansfanuk wrote:AC gives his takeWhy didn't Miller have this surgery last year? If you remember, at the time, Miller had a hole in the finger that was leaking fluid. The surgery performed by Dr. Tom Graham sealed that hole and repaired one of the pulleys. But Graham could not do the reconstruction because of the risk of infection brought about by the hole.
Obviously, this is a very complicated issue -- one I'll do my best to explain in a story on Indians.com in a little bit. But the gist of it is that Miller threw a bullpen session this morning that was so wild that the Indians' training and coaching staffs have reason to question whether he will be able to adjust enought to be a competitive professional pitcher. It's a sad -- and I'm sure frustrating -- state of affairs for the 24-year-old once known as one of baseball's top prospects.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... e_lin.html
We can at least be assured that Adam Miller is in good hands. Dr. Tom Graham is an outstanding hand surgeon. I know this because Dr. Graham reconstructed a ligament in my thumb back in the 90s when he was in Cleveland working at the Clinic. If there is anyone who can fix Miller's finger, it's Dr. Graham.
Moonlight Graham?
Can he be our 5th starter?
I believe "Archibold 'Moonlight' Graham" was an outfielder who's only cup of coffee came late in the 1914 season for Connie Mack...and he never got to wink at the pitcher.
Dude...come on. Moonlight played for the Giants, and John McGraw, not Connie Mack.
by Jennifer » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:28 pm
Soloff said Adam Miller, attempting to redefine his pitching motion, hit a "bump in the road" Monday and has been shut down. Miller had just started throwing batting practice when he experienced pain and swelling in his right middle finger and stopped throwing. He was scheduled to play catch today in Goodyear, Ariz.
Miller has been trying to avoid career-threatening surgery on his finger by trying to change his delivery and release point.
"We'll know more based on how he tolerates his throwing program over the next three to five days," said Soloff. "The difference is that Adam increased his intensity facing hitters. Surgery is always going to be an option. If in three to five days he's not better, we would consider sending him to see Dr. Graham. But since the symptoms have resolved, we're encouraged by that."
by Erie Warrior » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:11 am


by dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:05 pm
Right-hander Adam Miller likely will undergo surgery on his right middle finger Tuesday, Indians head trainer Lonnie Soloff said this afternoon.
In a best-case scenario, Miller would be sidelined 6-9 months.
by consigliere » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:17 pm

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