Broncos and QB Jay Cutler melting, could be a bargain

[Bob Fergus]

Strange things happening in Bronco land that could lead to a Brown’s opportunity.

You’ve heard the headlines about Cutler and the new (their should be an emphasis on NEW because the kid is only 32 years old) Bronco head coach Josh McDaniels but here are the condensed cliff notes.

When Shanny was fired, Jay was shocked and dismayed and wasn’t answering his phone after numerous attempts were made by McDaniels and Bronco Owner Pat Bowlen tried his cell phone.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11882256

Broncos' talk with Cutler sours
QB is unsure he'll attend workouts Monday after a call team officials contend was positive.
So much for communication.
According to an NFL source, Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler came away from a conference call with team officials Monday believing that for the right deal, he would be traded between now and the NFL draft, which begins April 25.
Broncos coach Josh McDaniels would not comment ...

...Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped..

... the next stage in this McJaygate drama.
According to the NFL source, Cutler has not yet decided whether he would report Monday. If Cutler doesn't report to Broncos headquarters next week, he would be viewed as undermining McDaniels' authority. What would the team do then? The Broncos may have no other choice but to move the player who in recent years has been dubbed not just the quarterback, but the "franchise" quarterback.
Ill feelings between Cutler and the Broncos began when Bowlen fired longtime coach Mike Shanahan two days after the Broncos were trounced by San Diego in a playoff-or-bust game in the 2008 regular-season finale. Cutler blasted the decision, then stated his support for passing-game coordinator Jeremy Bates.
When McDaniels became the new head coach, Bates was not retained. But in time, Cutler had warmed to McDaniels. They had spent a couple of weeks together at the team's headquarters studying the New England offensive system right up until the time the free-agent, trading season opened Feb. 27.
The next day brought reports Cutler was involved in trade talks, and there has been a rift between the quarterback and his bosses ever since. The most immediate question confronting Broncoland is: Can Cutler and the team reconcile their differences by the time the team begins its offseason conditioning program Monday?

The showdown is Monday when the ’voluntary’ off-season workouts begin and where Jay has a $100,000 incentive in his contract to report and participate. If he doesn't show the Broncos, i.e., McDaniels is screwed. Josh knows he has to prove himself quickly so the Donkeys have been far and away the most active FA participant having signed an even dozen free agents already.

It seems Bronco nation is unraveling and has turned on Cutler. Browns fans and journalists have turned on Cleveland players but I’ve never seen a local reporter referring to a Brown’s player as an “arrogant little punk” and a ”little bitch“.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpat ... index.html

Hastings: Cutler is an "arrogant little punk" and a "little bitch"
Denver TV analyst Scott Hastings joined Dan to discuss the Nuggets playoff run, the Broncos and other Denver news.
-Jay Cutler lost Hastings' respect when he claimed his arm is stronger than John Elway's. This was just a stupid thing to say because Elway is a legend in Denver so saying something like that just angers the fanbase. He calls Cutler an "arrogant little punk" and should wake up to the reality that he's the QB of an NFL football team and should act like a leader. He also referred to Cutler as a "little bitch."
-When Josh McDaniel was introduced as head coach, Cutler didn't even appear at the press conference. Hastings thinks that as the team leader, Cutler should've done everything in his power to appear there to support the new coach. He is, after all, the team leader.
-Dan asks Hastings if he'd rather have Brandon Marshall or Cutler. Hastings says he'd rather have Marshall, calling him a great guy.

So you got a taste of how nasty it has gotten here so their is an opportunity to get Cutler.

I won't go into his stats because he was a rookie and had a diabetic condition that went untreated for his first year as a starter where he lost 35lbs over the course of the season and that effected his by-line but last year he tore it up after he got full treatment and held up all season. I've seen more of this kid than I could possibly want to and their isn't any question in my mind that he is a true friggen' stud and his best days are ahead of him. But some goober who hasn't seen nearly as much of him will say isn't that good according to his W/L record and then they will dig up the point that in 37 starts Jay has a below .500 winning percentage of 17-20 so lets just clear that out of the way.

Here is how many points the Denver defense gave up with the W/L record to show the culprit of those losses, hint it wasn't a lack of offense:

Pts ------ Record
0-22 ---- 12-1
23-29 --- 2-6
30-34 --- 2-6
35-39 --- 1-2
40+ ----- 0-5
Total --- 17-20

Of the 37 starts, the Bronco defense allowed 30 points or more in 16 games. The record of the team when giving up 30 or more points? 3-13.

McDaniels has been getting offers up the yang for Cutler but he can't trade him without a replacement and the only team in the league with two young QBs who already have starts under their belt is Cleveland and Josh knows that Quinn knows the Wies/Patriot offense since BQ ran that offense under Wies very effectively. Cutler isn't a good fit for that offense but BQ is taylor made for it and he already knows the system and he would be a perfect replacement if the Cutler situation heads further south.

The Broncos willing to exchange Cutler for Cassell so a BQ for Cutler deal is in the realm of possibilities and if you think that this is idiocy then check out what our new HC and GM said a few weeks back when commenting on our QB situation.

The first words are from Mangini.

You can never have too many good quarterbacks. You can never have too much depth. Without evaluating all the elements, it's hard to say [we're leaning one way or other]. This isn't just specific to the quarterbacks.''
Mangini has spent a lot of time watching the Browns' 2007 and 2008 games and said there are ''things I like a lot about both guys.''
''I don't think the choice has to be made by 'X' date,'' Mangini said. ''I believe you have to go through it and make the right choice. It's much more important to me to let it play out and then make the best decision we can make.''

Kokinis said he didn't feel pressure to move Anderson because of the $5 million roster bonus he's due March 15.
''I don't think so,'' Kokinis said. ''All positions are valuable, but when you're talking about the quarterback position, you want to keep your options open, you don't want to have a deadline represent what decision you're going to make. Derek's a good player, and we want to give him the option and we want to give us the option of taking a look at it. In the grand scope of the football team, if it doesn't make sense, then we have to re-evaluate what we're looking at.''

[deepcover1]

Wonder what this means?


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18 ... etail.html

[pup]

Didn't need two threads on Jay Cutler hating Denver.

But very interesting news indeed.

[BDFD]

Wonder what this means?


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18 ... etail.html

The same thing it meant when Bill Cowher was allegedly buying a house in Strongsville?

[leadpipe]

A little overboard, don't you think?

Put on your big boy pants Jay. The NFL is big business.

[Bob Fergus]

A little overboard, don't you think?

Put on your big boy pants Jay. The NFL is big business.

Its not about Shanny or his OC getting pink slips or even that he would be on the trading block but this is where the rift came, from the link above:

"... Cutler had warmed to McDaniels. They had spent a couple of weeks together at the team's headquarters studying the New England offensive system right up until the time the free-agent, trading season opened Feb. 27.
The next day brought reports Cutler was involved in trade talks, and there has been a rift between the quarterback and his bosses ever since."

When Jay asked Josh about the rumors, McDaniels basically lied to him and said those talks never took place. So Cutler was upset about Shanny and his OC getting axed and then after he made concessions and began to build a repoir with McDaniels, Josh tried to throw him under the bus for the guy that McDaniels had success with in NE.

McDaniels is trying to win with a system that he controls rather than adjust his system to win with the talent he already has on his roster.

Cutler is incredibly gifted, off the charts in terms of arm strength.

Oh and those 16 games that the Bronco defense gave up 30 or more points? Works out to 43% of his starts that he had to score more than 30 points to have any shot to win.

Um, Big Ben's defense last year?

Zero games that they gave up 30 points.

Can you imagine if Cutler was in Pittsburgh? I mean the inbred forgave Big Ben for crashing his motorcycle AFTER KWII's incident.

Can you imagine if Cutler pulled a stunt like that? I mean he is understandably pissed that this 32 year old newbie Napoleon tried to trade him for a guy who never started even a HS game until last fall.

That NE system may be all that and a bag of chips but Cutler is infinitely more talented than Cassell. Even a suggestion that a swap of Cassell for Cutler is insane IMHO. Yet we see where McDaniels' head is at in terms of thinking that his NE passing system is more valuable than a superior talented QB. If he's so vested in his system then BQ has to be in his wheelhouse especially since the Bronco fanbase has shifted againt Cutler.

I see a tremdous bargain.

[deepcover1]

Update on the Cutler House thingy

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nf ... 58850.html


DENVER (CBS4) ―

You've probably heard Broncos Quarterback Jay Cutler has put his house up for sale. But should you read something more into this? Could this be a sign that Cutler could be leaving town in the wake of his feud with the Broncos? As best as CBS4 Sports can tell...no.

Here's what we've learned. Cutler does have a house on the market. It's a house he bought back in 2006 in Castle Pines. But that's not the house considered to be his primary residence which is much closer to the Broncos facility. Fact is, Cutler has three properties that we know of including a condo in downtown.

We're told Cutler has been thinking about selling the Castle Pines house for somewhere around 6 months. Long before any controversy erupted between the quarterback and the Broncos.

[leadpipe]

A little overboard, don't you think?

Put on your big boy pants Jay. The NFL is big business.

Its not about Shanny or his OC getting pink slips or even that he would be on the trading block but this is where the rift came, from the link above:

"... Cutler had warmed to McDaniels. They had spent a couple of weeks together at the team's headquarters studying the New England offensive system right up until the time the free-agent, trading season opened Feb. 27.
The next day brought reports Cutler was involved in trade talks, and there has been a rift between the quarterback and his bosses ever since."

When Jay asked Josh about the rumors, McDaniels basically lied to him and said those talks never took place. So Cutler was upset about Shanny and his OC getting axed and then after he made concessions and began to build a repoir with McDaniels, Josh tried to throw him under the bus for the guy that McDaniels had success with in NE.

McDaniels is trying to win with a system that he controls rather than adjust his system to win with the talent he already has on his roster.

Cutler is incredibly gifted, off the charts in terms of arm strength.

Oh and those 16 games that the Bronco defense gave up 30 or more points? Works out to 43% of his starts that he had to score more than 30 points to have any shot to win.

Um, Big Ben's defense last year?

Zero games that they gave up 30 points.

Can you imagine if Cutler was in Pittsburgh? I mean the inbred forgave Big Ben for crashing his motorcycle AFTER KWII's incident.

Can you imagine if Cutler pulled a stunt like that? I mean he is understandably pissed that this 32 year old newbie Napoleon tried to trade him for a guy who never started even a HS game until last fall.

That NE system may be all that and a bag of chips but Cutler is infinitely more talented than Cassell. Even a suggestion that a swap of Cassell for Cutler is insane IMHO. Yet we see where McDaniels' head is at in terms of thinking that his NE passing system is more valuable than a superior talented QB. If he's so vested in his system then BQ has to be in his wheelhouse especially since the Bronco fanbase has shifted againt Cutler.

I see a tremdous bargain.

I stand by my post.

The rest of this....well, yeah you may get Cutler at a bargain. Never said he wasn't talented, just prefer his skin to be a little thicker. It's the way things work in the league. If you are banking on someone REALLY appreciating you, and not what you're worth to them, you are in for more than one disappointment in your NFL life.

And, the Big Ben comparisons? Look, you may think he's better, but a dead man would obviously win more games with one of the better defenses of all time compared to one of the worst. And, if I imagine Cutler on Pittsburgh last year, well, I'm not sure I'd imagine the team doing any better. Ben, for better or worse, is in the clubhouse twice, and there are better QB's in the league to be sure, but there have been QB's that have F'd up better situations.

So, if he forces their hand, you get a bargain, but it remains to be seen just how much so. Denver ultimately holds the final card if nobody flinches, and if they do flich, I'd be interested, just lighten up Jay, you are an employee, like it or not.

[Bob Fergus]

I stand by my post.

The rest of this....well, yeah you may get Cutler at a bargain. Never said he wasn't talented, just prefer his skin to be a little thicker. It's the way things work in the league. If you are banking on someone REALLY appreciating you, and not what you're worth to them, you are in for more than one disappointment in your NFL life.

And, the Big Ben comparisons? Look, you may think he's better, but a dead man would obviously win more games with one of the better defenses of all time compared to one of the worst. And, if I imagine Cutler on Pittsburgh last year, well, I'm not sure I'd imagine the team doing any better. Ben, for better or worse, is in the clubhouse twice, and there are better QB's in the league to be sure, but there have been QB's that have F'd up better situations.

So, if he forces their hand, you get a bargain, but it remains to be seen just how much so. Denver ultimately holds the final card if nobody flinches, and if they do flich, I'd be interested, just lighten up Jay, you are an employee, like it or not.

Thickness of skin is in direct relation to the ... ah lets call it the A-Hole gene of any, rich-young-talented-popular, persona and the public can put a magnifying glass to that gene anytime the lemming gene is activated by the public.

Cutler is under the scope so he becomes the biggest A-Hole according to the lemmings who are in full go-over-the-cliff mode.

Last year Cutler the lemmings went over the cliff in the other direction when he called out his WR Brandon Marshall (B-Marshall got suspended for multiple infractions and just had yet ANOTHER one a few days ago) for being an A-Hole and trust me Brandon Marshall is a genuine A-Hole but that is a different thread for a different time.

The A-Hole gene gets noticed more when the team is losing, or in Jay's case just not winning. Lemmings in Denver have decided that its JAY'S FAULT that the Donkey's aren't winning and they couldn't be further from the truth. The Donkey's win twice as often when Jay doesn't have to score more than 30 points and he has to score more than 30 points 43% of the time he steps foot on the field.

The point about Big Ben, William the photgenic with boozing and skanky inbred female fame and of breaking windshields with his face renoun is a much bigger A-Hole but he has the benefit of having one of the best defenses which cuts down anyone recognizing that he is a much bigger A-Hole than Cutler.

Jay may be thin skinned but he isn't the reason Denver isn't winning and no one in Denver would notice about his skin if he was winning.

Last year Jay's diabetic condition was managed it well. He didn't have to deal with a 35 lb weight loss that weighed him down the year before and when he was healthy he tore it up with over 4,500 yards passing (something Big Ben has never done) and he threw for 25 TDs (Big Ben has only thrown for more TDs in only one of his five seasons). If Pittsburgh wasn't winning the fans in Pittsburgh would recognize Big-B is an A-Hole and they would be calling him more than just thin skinned.

Right now the lemmings are on the march in Denver and that team is on the brink of making a mistake and we are poised to take advantage of their miscue.

Jay's epidermis looks thick enough from my eyes. So I stand by my post in saying the problems in Denver could be an oppotunity in Cleveland.

[leadpipe]

I stand by my post.

The rest of this....well, yeah you may get Cutler at a bargain. Never said he wasn't talented, just prefer his skin to be a little thicker. It's the way things work in the league. If you are banking on someone REALLY appreciating you, and not what you're worth to them, you are in for more than one disappointment in your NFL life.

And, the Big Ben comparisons? Look, you may think he's better, but a dead man would obviously win more games with one of the better defenses of all time compared to one of the worst. And, if I imagine Cutler on Pittsburgh last year, well, I'm not sure I'd imagine the team doing any better. Ben, for better or worse, is in the clubhouse twice, and there are better QB's in the league to be sure, but there have been QB's that have F'd up better situations.

So, if he forces their hand, you get a bargain, but it remains to be seen just how much so. Denver ultimately holds the final card if nobody flinches, and if they do flich, I'd be interested, just lighten up Jay, you are an employee, like it or not.

Thickness of skin is in direct relation to the ... ah lets call it the A-Hole gene of any, rich-young-talented-popular, persona and the public can put a magnifying glass to that gene anytime the lemming gene is activated by the public.

Cutler is under the scope so he becomes the biggest A-Hole according to the lemmings who are in full go-over-the-cliff mode.

Last year Cutler the lemmings went over the cliff in the other direction when he called out his WR Brandon Marshall (B-Marshall got suspended for multiple infractions and just had yet ANOTHER one a few days ago) for being an A-Hole and trust me Brandon Marshall is a genuine A-Hole but that is a different thread for a different time.

The A-Hole gene gets noticed more when the team is losing, or in Jay's case just not winning. Lemmings in Denver have decided that its JAY'S FAULT that the Donkey's aren't winning and they couldn't be further from the truth. The Donkey's win twice as often when Jay doesn't have to score more than 30 points and he has to score more than 30 points 43% of the time he steps foot on the field.

The point about Big Ben, William the photgenic with boozing and skanky inbred female fame and of breaking windshields with his face renoun is a much bigger A-Hole but he has the benefit of having one of the best defenses which cuts down anyone recognizing that he is a much bigger A-Hole than Cutler.

Jay may be thin skinned but he isn't the reason Denver isn't winning and no one in Denver would notice about his skin if he was winning.

Last year Jay's diabetic condition was managed it well. He didn't have to deal with a 35 lb weight loss that weighed him down the year before and when he was healthy he tore it up with over 4,500 yards passing (something Big Ben has never done) and he threw for 25 TDs (Big Ben has only thrown for more TDs in only one of his five seasons). If Pittsburgh wasn't winning the fans in Pittsburgh would recognize Big-B is an A-Hole and they would be calling him more than just thin skinned.

Right now the lemmings are on the march in Denver and that team is on the brink of making a mistake and we are poised to take advantage of their miscue.

Jay's epidermis looks thick enough from my eyes. So I stand by my post in saying the problems in Denver could be an oppotunity in Cleveland.

Uggh, you gotta relax, man.

All of this.... I'm not sure where you are getting it in relation to quoting my posts.

I said Cutler needed thicker skin.

Things I did NOT say or infer

1. Jay Cutler is an asshole
2. Jay Cutler is the reason Denver loses.
3. Jay Cutler is on a social level with Brandon Marshall
4. Big Ben is far superior to Jay Cutler
5. Jay Cutler's current behavior would have me ignoring him, especially at a bargain price.

I made a simple comment. That is all.

I will say this in closing, Ben R. has nothing to do with this. I find Big Ben really annoying, but you describe him as a toal asshole that would be a stiff if he weren't on a good team. That might be a little extreme.

And there are plenty of people that win that are considered assholes as well. Off the top of my head, in each sport, Kobe, Schilling and Romanowski. If you needed a hundred from each sport it wouldn't be a project. Winning allows for a tolerance of assholes, but we all know who they are.

[Hydra Melee]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

[waborat]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

I'd let them pick any 2 players (except Cribbs & JT) for JC&3

[deepcover1]

Well, more drama in Denver, not only has Jay put his house up for sale but now it looks like he has also put his parents home up for sale, it looks like someone is getting ready to slip out of town to me.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/ ... ncos-feud/


When news broke that Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler is selling his Denver-area home, the “nothing to see here” crowd was quick to point out that Cutler owns other property in Denver, and that he has been wanting to sell the house in question for a while.

We wonder what they’ll be saying now that the house in which Cutler’s parents live is up for sale, too?

According to NBC 9 in Denver, the 4,100-square foot home has landed on the market, for a mere $835,000.

Even if Cutler’s decision to sell his own house was a coincidence, Cutler can’t blame cluelessness on this latest development.

Clearly, he wants out of Denver. And, clearly, he and his family are moving forward as if he’s going to get his way.

[noles1]

Interesting stuff. Not sure how I feel about this. Cutler has the skills but all this seems to bring into question his mental capacity.

[Bob Fergus]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

PFT proposes a lopsided Browns trade in favor of Denver?

Shocking.

Shaun Rogers is not only a Pro Bowl NT but he's also signed for the next five years. The Broncos are switching to the 3-4 and don't have an NT and aren't positioned to get one with their first pick in the draft so that would make tons of sense and be a huge bargain for Denver but not for the Browns.

Now consider that Denver may lose their top WR Brandon Marshall who will be suspended for off-field shenanigans. We just so happen to have a young WR in Braylon Edwards whose contract is up after this year and he's made noise about moving on. If we don't re-up him or dish him then we'll lose him and get nothing in return.

Pure speculation but the Broncos might be very agreeable to giving up their top pick #12 in the first round and Cutler for BQ and Braylon. If Braylon left we would have to replace and at the #5 pick we would in prime position to land the top WR and 'possibly' BPA of this draft in Mike Crabtree.

The Broncos are going to without B-Marshall for a large chunk of this season since he was on thin ice after getting suspended last year. He's a multiple-time offender. The Broncos would love to rid themsevles of two young abeit gifted players and replace them with two young gifted players so its possible that we could get B-Marshall as a toss-in since his value is basically nil.

So if the soap opera with Cutler continues its downward slide then his value also continues to drop and it looks like a free fall right now.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

… CBS4 reports that Cutler opted after yesterday’s meeting not to attend a Saturday night roast of Broncos trainer Steve Antonopulos, even though Cutler previously was due to appear.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11919325?source=commented-

McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler not only had planned to attend but had agreed to a personal meeting with his coach. Cutler apparently didn't like what he heard and it is now doubtful he will attend the team meeting Monday, according to the source.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11915673?source=commented-

Kiz says it doesn't matter who is at fault, but there's only one solution: Trade Cutler.

…My guess is Jay-Dude is smart enough to adjust to the reality that anyone can be traded and pro football is a business. The reason he's still angry is Cutler knows Kid McD lied to him about trying to trade him.

The Denver Post report the quarterback believes he will be traded to another team before the NFL draft on April 25.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11910137?source=commented-broncos

Despite public assurances to the contrary from Dove Valley, it's looking more and more likely that the Broncos' melodrama with their starting quarterback will end badly.
Even if Cutler shows up for the offseason conditioning program Monday, it may be too little too late. Short of a complete Cutler mea culpa, which seems unlikely, this thing may have reached the point of no return.
More significant is Cutler's loss of his closest ally at Broncos headquarters. When he failed to return owner Pat Bowlen's phone calls in the midst of his standoff with new coach Josh McDaniels, I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

an adjetive derived from the noun "apoplexy" which translates to 1) a severe hemorrahage or infarction, especially in the brain, 2) a stroke.

If McDaniels' refusal to come clean about shopping Cutler in trade talks was the eye-opener for the quarterback, Cutler's failure to return his phone calls may have done the trick for Bowlen.

... … The power of the Broncos to shape the thinking of their fans remains as strong as ever. Cutler had very few critics in these parts when Broncos management stood behind him. Now, less than three months after his main sponsor was fired, his critics are everywhere. Talk-show hosts who have never met him feel free to call him a baby on the air with no response from the Broncos. That kind of fissure is hard to repair.

The top five and top twelve picks could give us options. The Broncos could rid themselves of two problem children in one-fell-swoop. If Crabby isn't thier at #5 or if we still wanted to go D with that pick its possible that Maclin could be available at the #12 spot in the draft.

The Broncos have painted themselves in a corner and will have to make some sort of move with Cutler. They are going to take another huge PR hit when the commish hands down Brandon Marshall's suspension. The good ship Josh McDaniels is headed right for an iceberg. His options are limited so I'm thinking about possible bargains and solutions that could would be win-win.

[Exit_Stage_Left]

I think the Browns and Lions will be the two teams looking into this...I can't deny I would be thrilled to bring Cutler into Cleveland. I would love to get their first and maybe go after Crabtee and Cushing...that would really solve two problems and bring in a pro bowl caliber QB at the same time, while ridding us of Braylon. Thoughts?

Or you could always go Crabtree and Moreno...and then look at English in the second.

[Lubber]

Looks like the meeting went badly and Jay has formally requested the Broncos to trade him:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

[jb]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

PFT proposes a lopsided Browns trade in favor of Denver?

Shocking.

Shaun Rogers is not only a Pro Bowl NT but he's also signed for the next five years. The Broncos are switching to the 3-4 and don't have an NT and aren't positioned to get one with their first pick in the draft so that would make tons of sense and be a huge bargain for Denver but not for the Browns.

Now consider that Denver may lose their top WR Brandon Marshall who will be suspended for off-field shenanigans. We just so happen to have a young WR in Braylon Edwards whose contract is up after this year and he's made noise about moving on. If we don't re-up him or dish him then we'll lose him and get nothing in return.

Pure speculation but the Broncos might be very agreeable to giving up their top pick #12 in the first round and Cutler for BQ and Braylon. If Braylon left we would have to replace and at the #5 pick we would in prime position to land the top WR and 'possibly' BPA of this draft in Mike Crabtree.

The Broncos are going to without B-Marshall for a large chunk of this season since he was on thin ice after getting suspended last year. He's a multiple-time offender. The Broncos would love to rid themsevles of two young abeit gifted players and replace them with two young gifted players so its possible that we could get B-Marshall as a toss-in since his value is basically nil.

So if the soap opera with Cutler continues its downward slide then his value also continues to drop and it looks like a free fall right now.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

… CBS4 reports that Cutler opted after yesterday’s meeting not to attend a Saturday night roast of Broncos trainer Steve Antonopulos, even though Cutler previously was due to appear.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11919325?source=commented-

McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler not only had planned to attend but had agreed to a personal meeting with his coach. Cutler apparently didn't like what he heard and it is now doubtful he will attend the team meeting Monday, according to the source.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11915673?source=commented-

Kiz says it doesn't matter who is at fault, but there's only one solution: Trade Cutler.

…My guess is Jay-Dude is smart enough to adjust to the reality that anyone can be traded and pro football is a business. The reason he's still angry is Cutler knows Kid McD lied to him about trying to trade him.

The Denver Post report the quarterback believes he will be traded to another team before the NFL draft on April 25.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_11910137?source=commented-broncos

Despite public assurances to the contrary from Dove Valley, it's looking more and more likely that the Broncos' melodrama with their starting quarterback will end badly.
Even if Cutler shows up for the offseason conditioning program Monday, it may be too little too late. Short of a complete Cutler mea culpa, which seems unlikely, this thing may have reached the point of no return.
More significant is Cutler's loss of his closest ally at Broncos headquarters. When he failed to return owner Pat Bowlen's phone calls in the midst of his standoff with new coach Josh McDaniels, I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

an adjetive derived from the noun "apoplexy" which translates to 1) a severe hemorrahage or infarction, especially in the brain, 2) a stroke.

If McDaniels' refusal to come clean about shopping Cutler in trade talks was the eye-opener for the quarterback, Cutler's failure to return his phone calls may have done the trick for Bowlen.

... … The power of the Broncos to shape the thinking of their fans remains as strong as ever. Cutler had very few critics in these parts when Broncos management stood behind him. Now, less than three months after his main sponsor was fired, his critics are everywhere. Talk-show hosts who have never met him feel free to call him a baby on the air with no response from the Broncos. That kind of fissure is hard to repair.

The top five and top twelve picks could give us options. The Broncos could rid themselves of two problem children in one-fell-swoop. If Crabby isn't thier at #5 or if we still wanted to go D with that pick its possible that Maclin could be available at the #12 spot in the draft.

The Broncos have painted themselves in a corner and will have to make some sort of move with Cutler. They are going to take another huge PR hit when the commish hands down Brandon Marshall's suspension. The good ship Josh McDaniels is headed right for an iceberg. His options are limited so I'm thinking about possible bargains and solutions that could would be win-win.

Thnaks for the summary, Bob.

Two thoughts, one a question...

I am under the impression that trading Rogers is impossible due to cap acceleration. Yes ? No ? BQ & BE for Culter and the pick instead?

Cutler is scaring me to invest in him now. He needs to play out this contract and never resign with them. He is being a prima donna.

Brilliant move by the kid coach BTW. There is more than a patern to these BB tree pukes. BUt if Denver is stubborn they'll win this one. Let Cutler sit out. F 'em.

[yogi]

I was just watching Mike & Mike this morning and Greeny made the case that the Jets would love to have Cutler and when the possobility of the Browns being a trade partner with the Broncos came up, Greeny would then be very happy if the Jets were to get Quinn. The Browns are in the mix according to John Clayton because they would have a QB to send to Denver and play this season. The Jets do not.

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Of course this is just a high level look and on the surface seems like a fair deal to all involved.

BE can also be thrown into the mix and juice things up.

My preference is scenario #2. I'm not a big Cutler fan and his recent immaturity and diabetes add questions.

But it is interesting and are realistic scenarios.

[SoulDawg74]

His p u s s y is still hurting after meeting face to face with his coach.

Pat Bowlen ""disapointed we might be losing our star QB ""

Brady Quinn being mentioned by Mort in trade speculation.

Nothing definitive yet , but this was what was reported by Mort as of 9:20 AM Monday on Mike and Mike.

Since this is out Cutlers trade value is now diminished .

If they really have the Hots for Quinn to run ther Patriot system in Denver ,
make em anty up a draft pick .

Fair exchange is no robbery ,

But sticking up Denver ain't really a crime.

Realistically I expect the Lions to jump into this one, and whore up the market place.


SoulDawg

[jb]

His p u s s y is still hurting after meeting face to face with his coach.

Pat Bowlen ""disapointed we might be losing our star QB ""

Brady Quinn being mentioned by Mort in trade speculation.

Nothing definitive yet , but this was what was reported by Mort as of 9:20 AM Monday on Mike and Mike.

Since this is out Cutlers trade value is now diminished .

If they really have the Hots for Quinn to run ther Patriot system in Denver ,
make em anty up a draft pick .

Fair exchange is no robbery ,

But sticking up Denver ain't really a crime.

Realistically I expect the Lions to jump into this one, and whore up the market place.


SoulDawg

Combining into existing my man.

Or not....

Pup - Jane, help me stop this crazy thing?

i.e. how do we combine into the long thread already started by Fergus ?

Maybe PM me how to do this command as a mod.

[ProgRocker]

I think the Browns and Lions will be the two teams looking into this...I can't deny I would be thrilled to bring Cutler into Cleveland. I would love to get their first and maybe go after Crabtee and Cushing...that would really solve two problems and bring in a pro bowl caliber QB at the same time, while ridding us of Braylon. Thoughts?

Or you could always go Crabtree and Moreno...and then look at English in the second.

I'd look for the Jets and the Bears to enter the Cutler derby as well. I don't know what they'd offer, but those are both teams with a big need and are fed up with their QBs at long last, and also seem to have some flexibility to take Cutler fairly comfortably.

I wonder if we'll see an NBA-style three-way deal to get things done that the Browns could be involved in. They're kind of unusual in the NFL, though, so I'll believe it when I see it.

[Crash Davis]

I was just watching Mike & Mike this morning and Greeny made the case that the Jets would love to have Cutler and when the possobility of the Browns being a trade partner with the Broncos came up, Greeny would then be very happy if the Jets were to get Quinn. The Browns are in the mix according to John Clayton because they would have a QB to send to Denver and play this season. The Jets do not.

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Of course this is just a high level look and on the surface seems like a fair deal to all involved.

BE can also be thrown into the mix and juice things up.

My preference is scenario #2. I'm not a big Cutler fan and his recent immaturity and diabetes add questions.

But it is interesting and are realistic scenarios.

Scenario number #1 is highly unlikely as Quinn's value is not that high right now- a #1 and #2?

Scenario number #2 would work great for us but as SD said I think McDaniels wants to run the Pats system so he'd probably want Quinn. Not so sure I want Cutler as the long term with him playing with diabetes and all plus there's talk of a potential contract situation with him wanting a new one which won't have Mangini to thrilled to have to deal with that. Talent speaking Cutler would be great but for how long would we have his services?

[Lubber]

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Walk me through #1 as it appears the Browns are giving away two QB's who started last season in return for a #2. While the Jets are giving away a #1 and #2 for Quinn. The Broncos are getting #1 and DA for Cutler?

Steal for the Broncos while the other two teams get the shaft in this scenario.

[pup]

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Walk me through #1 as it appears the Browns are giving away two QB's who started last season in return for a #2. While the Jets are giving away a #1 and #2 for Quinn. The Broncos are getting #1 and DA for Cutler?

Steal for the Broncos while the other two teams get the shaft in this scenario.

They get a #2 and Cutler, who is obviously viewed by most as >Quinn>Anderson.

[SoulDawg74]

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Walk me through #1 as it appears the Browns are giving away two QB's who started last season in return for a #2. While the Jets are giving away a #1 and #2 for Quinn. The Broncos are getting #1 and DA for Cutler?

Steal for the Broncos while the other two teams get the shaft in this scenario.

SD:

We need to keep this simple.

Denver trades Cutler to the Jets for their #1 and #3

and the Broncos

Turn over both their #1's to the Browns for Quinn sans Vaseline .


SoulDawg

[Lubber]

I mention this because there are a number of realistic scenarios between these 3 teams:

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Walk me through #1 as it appears the Browns are giving away two QB's who started last season in return for a #2. While the Jets are giving away a #1 and #2 for Quinn. The Broncos are getting #1 and DA for Cutler?

Steal for the Broncos while the other two teams get the shaft in this scenario.

They get a #2 and Cutler, who is obviously viewed by most as >Quinn>Anderson.

Ooops.. knew I was missing something... Too much Green Beer already...LOL... Thanks Pup...
Still a steal for the Broncos. Jets definitely will not get rid of 1 and 2 for Quinn.

[Crash Davis]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

[yogi]

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

sorry, not as clear as I meant.

Broncos get: DA from Browns, the Jets 1st round pick

Browns get: Cutler from Broncos, and Jets 2nd round pick

Jets get: Quinn from Browns

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Broncos get: 1st & 2nd round pick for Cutler; DA from Browns for Jets 2nd rd pick so they end up with 1st rounder and DA

Jets get: Cutler for their 1st and 2nd round pick

Browns get: 2nd round pick from Denver (formerly Jets) for DA

[Yinzer Hater]

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

sorry, not as clear as I meant.

Broncos get: DA from Browns, the Jets 1st round pick

Browns get: Cutler from Broncos, and Jets 2nd round pick

Jets get: Quinn from Browns

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Broncos get: 1st & 2nd round pick for Cutler; DA from Browns for Jets 2nd rd pick so they end up with 1st rounder and DA

Jets get: Cutler for their 1st and 2nd round pick

Browns get: 2nd round pick from Denver (formerly Jets) for DA

In your first projection Jets would giving up a first and second rounder for Quinn? Highly unlikely

[OrangeElf]

1. Cutler to Browns, Quinn to Jets, DA to Broncos. , Jets 1 to Broncos and the Jets 2 to Browns.

sorry, not as clear as I meant.

Broncos get: DA from Browns, the Jets 1st round pick

Browns get: Cutler from Broncos, and Jets 2nd round pick

Jets get: Quinn from Browns

2. Cutler to Jets for No. 1 & 2, Broncos use Jets 2 to get DA

Broncos get: 1st & 2nd round pick for Cutler; DA from Browns for Jets 2nd rd pick so they end up with 1st rounder and DA

Jets get: Cutler for their 1st and 2nd round pick

Browns get: 2nd round pick from Denver (formerly Jets) for DA

In your first projection Jets would giving up a first and second rounder for Quinn? Highly unlikely

What about bluffing that we are going to take Stafford at #5? Denver Post writer says this morning that Cutler's eventual replacement may come from their first draft pick and that the Broncos think Stafford compares to Cutler more than any NFL QB. Its looking more and more like the Lions will take an O-lineman at #1 overall and Chiefs at #3 no longer need a QB. The Broncos pick at 12.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11921595

[yogi]

Scenario number #1 is highly unlikely as Quinn's value is not that high right now- a #1 and #2?

Says you? But do the Jets agree?

Jets picks are #17 and #52.

A little higher than what we paid to the Cowboys to get Quinn. (Don't forget the Cowboys gambled that the pick they would get from us would be a helluva lot higher than what they got). Also, I could argue that Quinn's value is somewhat higher now since he's put a couple of years learning the NFL on the bench.

This potential deal is very cap friendly to the Jets since Quinn's bonuses are paid and they are opening a new stadium soon and PSLs are hurting.

Lots and lots of Norte Dame fans and alumni in the NYC area. Quinn's commercials would go over big in NYC.

I'm just saying a case could be made on a few levels thats all.

[jb]

Why is it always ablout the quarterback to we fans?

[bw]

Why is it always ablout the quarterback to we fans?

There are only two individuals on a football team that have won-lost records attached to their names --

The Head Coach and the Quarterback.

[mistero]

I'm not sure whats what, but only in Cleveland would you move up in the 1st round to draft a Qb and then never let him play.

Mind boggling bullshit. Let Quinn start in 2009 and 2010. Then you can make a fair judgement.

I'm not trading him for Jeff George II until I know what we have.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This thread is ludicrous...

Inventing a scenerio to suit your thought pattern while under the influence of Windowpane LSD...least that's what I make of it

Anyone remember the Bolts/Broncs game where Rivers was making an ass of himself taunting Cutler from the sidelines and Cutler's response was to gag?

What was up with that anyways?

[OSU819903]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

[Crash Davis]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

I agree I think Lombardi is way off base here. I don't know who's dictating the feeling across the NFL and if its just one or two front office guys or more but I'd sure like to know who he's talking about.

[bw]

I think it's fairly well known that Lane Kiffin wanted Brady Quinn over Jamarcus Russell but his arm wasn't strong enough for the vertical-minded Al Davis. Russell out-played Brady in the Sugar Bowl. It might have helped that Russell had two receivers that (I think) were drafted in the first round. And Brady had some fairly forgettable receivers working with him (again, I'm pretty sure).

Way too early to judge Brady. Miami passed on him and the HC was fired the next year for fielding a QB-less team.

Lombardi is saying 'league sources' are down on Brady? Bullshit. I think, if anything, some people are trying to drive Quinn's value down in case there really is a move to trade him. Smoke screen.

As proof, here's an article from CBS Sports about the debate over who is the better QB -- Russell or Quinn. It also has an interesting quote from Kiffin, which should give you an idea of where his thoughts were --

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/10144972

Amid all the praise and hype and soaring draft stock going Russell's way, which has triggered one of the fastest rises up the draft board we've seen at the quarterback position in a long time, Kiffin brought some levity to the situation and reminded us that a big arm might look good, but what does it really mean?

"He can go way over there and throw the ball 70 yards back over there," Kiffin said. "That's real exciting, but how many times does that happen a year? About two in 16 games? That's a scout's dream to have a guy like that, but you have to dig deeper than that because that doesn't happen that much."

I'm quite certain most of you have read this, it just helps to refresh your memory from time to time.

EDITED -- I was right (as usual) --Dwayne Bowe and Craig Davis, both receivers for LSU, were drafted the same year as Russell and in the same round -- The first round. Notre Dame had a grand total of Zero (0) WRs drafted. At all.

[DrPoove]

Update from hobbit John Clayton and the Browns' involved (or alleged involvement):

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?context=audio&id=3985048&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

[Chris]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

Yes, I do that in a heart beat.

Rogers is a discontent. Get em outta here.

[bw]

What was that trade PFT posted? Rogers and Brady for Cutler and 3 pick?

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

Yes, I do that in a heart beat.

Rogers is a discontent. Get em outta here.

Many of these players aren't malcontents as much as they're just greedy bastiches. They go to a team, get a huge, non-recoverable signing bonus, then pick a fight or start bitching and moaning so they can go to another team and get another huge nonrecoverable signing bonus.

Think their agents might be whispering in their ears? Well, they are lawyers, y'know.

[buckeye319]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Generally, I agree that its hard to make a judgment on Quinn through his brief stint in the NFL (though I'd like to know what former Browns coaches say about it him off the record), but he did fall to #22 for a reason. A strong, 6'4" QB from Notre Dame doesn't get passed over like that for no reason.

Bottom line is that if you take Cutler over Quinn everyday of the week.

[bw]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Generally, I agree that its hard to make a judgment on Quinn through his brief stint in the NFL (though I'd like to know what former Browns coaches say about it him off the record), but he did fall to #22 for a reason. A strong, 6'4" QB from Notre Dame doesn't get passed over like that for no reason.

Bottom line is that if you take Cutler over Quinn everyday of the week.

Brady played on what really was a bad team. They barely managed to squeak into a Bowl Game his senior year and they were seriously over-matched when they played the power house LSU. And it showed.

Players from winning programs are very often over-rated and players from losing programs are very often under-rated.

Quinn in College v. Cutler in College? Vandy sucked ass. They have always sucked ass. Notre Dame is an icon. They ARE College Football to a lot of people and when they don't kick ass, it's got to be somebody's fault because God is rooting for Notre Dame.

Expectations.

Note that when Brady left Notre Dame, the Fighting Irish went from suck to sooper suck. Brady was about all ND had going for them.

[jb]

Lombardi is saying 'league sources' are down on Brady?

You mean the ghost behind the BB cutting Kosar for Philcox machine, Mike Lombardi?

Mike I took TD Tommy 6th overall, Lombardi ?

Reminds me of Donna Brazille having enough alleged cred to be a political campaign analyst.

[jb]

Apparently Mike Lombardi doesn't think Quinn has that much value at all. I disagree, just don't think we can get a #1 and a #2 for him


Diner Morning News: The Cutler Saga

FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

16 March 2009

"I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/200 ... tler-saga/

So from three games and a hand full of pre-season games Lambardi was able to judge Quinn as too inconsistent to be a full time starter? And who is it exactly is dictating this "general feeling in the NFL....."

Generally, I agree that its hard to make a judgment on Quinn through his brief stint in the NFL (though I'd like to know what former Browns coaches say about it him off the record), but he did fall to #22 for a reason. A strong, 6'4" QB from Notre Dame doesn't get passed over like that for no reason.

To me, "passed over" is Tom Brady, not 22nd overall.

But go back and look at the draft order and QB need. Once Cam Cameronpassed on a QB, Ray Charles could see that coming. And I'm not holding up Cam as a paragon of anything good.

[216]

Mike I took TD Tommy 9th overall, Lombardi ?

fixed it sir!

He was the reason I wore #44 in HS

[jb]

Mike I took TD Tommy 9th overall, Lombardi ?

fixed it sir!

He was the reason I wore #44 in HS

Gracias classic area code !

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Bottom line is that if you take Cutler over Quinn everyday of the week.

....or What happens?

Sentence strucuture. It's not just for grade schoolers anymore

...but we can read your mind...you'll take a proven loser over a #1 draft pick still yet to get his chance...

[buckeye319]

Bottom line is that if you take Cutler over Quinn everyday of the week.

....or What happens?

Sentence strucuture. It's not just for grade schoolers anymore

...but we can read your mind...you'll take a proven loser over a #1 draft pick still yet to get his chance...

Sorry, I accidentally put an "if" in there. Christ.

I don't want to hijack this thread into a discussion based on Quinn's shortcomings. I was just responding to a statement implying we need to give Quinn a chance instead of getting a guy like Cutler. That's a perfectly fine opinion, but I strongly disagree. And I think just about every GM in the NFL would agree with me if they had the choice between Cutler and Quinn in a vacuum.