Miller out...

[nwizzle]

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090228&content_id=3897618&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

It doesn't sound too serious...yet. I'm just not liking the fact that he's feeling soreness in that finger. He's been back awhile so I would have thought that there should be no soreness... unless it means more problems.

Can't things just go right for Miller one year?

[Chris]

Oh well. We all hoped he'd stay healthy but, the odds were against it.

[The Tribe Zone]

The guys an injury waiting for a good time to happen.......

I've almost forgotten his name....

[tired]

Hope it's not serious. I've been wanting to see him come of age.

[peeker643]

Hope it's not serious. I've been wanting to see him come of age.

Just copy and paste this to save yourself some keystrokes in the future.

[CDAV6]

I love the optimism around here. It is a minor injury and it is way early in camp. If you feel yourselves going into a deep depression think of Josh Beckett. He probably had more injury issues than Miller and I would like to think all of us would like to have Josh in our rotation. Adam has a power arm and most pitchers with this God given talent are more apt to injuries especially when they are young and have inconsistancies in their deliveries. So here's hoping for the best because if he is healthy he gives us the best backend duo in all of baseball imo.

[consigliere]

Since when has soreness been considered an injury?

I get that when it comes to guys like Wood/Miller that anything that crops up is a red flag....but I am not too concerned with this yet. He's pitching a lot after being off a few months and not throwing since mid-November in the Dominican Republic, and I think it is expected that some soreness would result.

Something to monitor though.

[peeker643]

Since when has soreness been considered an injury?

I get that when it comes to guys like Wood/Miller that anything that crops up is a red flag....but I am not too concerned with this yet.

Ask Beanie Wells when soreness became injury.

Look, no one is getting over excited about Miller's soreness. Know why?

1. Because it ain't a big deal yet.
2. Because he's always fucking sore or hurt.

Sorry you don't like it CDav but it is what it is. My expectations of this kid have nothing to do with performance and everything to do with what will be hurt next and when. I have no idea why I feel that way about Adam Miller though. Not like he has nothing but a history.

[slegend]

Ask Beanie Wells when soreness became injury.

I think you can add "shoe not tied" "forgot a wrist band" etc. to what Beanie considers an injury...

Back to "Miller Time" -- who cares about a has been prospect that is now a relief pitcher, at best, when this team needs a #3, #4, #5 starter to emerge from a pile of "young" players?

Get Miller some HGH, roids, and set of balls and tell him to play with some pain...

[KnightWhoSaysGIH]

Back to "Miller Time" -- who cares about a has been prospect that is now a relief pitcher, at best, when this team needs a #3, #4, #5 starter to emerge from a pile of "young" players?

Get Miller some HGH, roids, and set of balls and tell him to play with some pain...

I didn't realize Slegend was Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues!

[G-Strang]

Back to "Miller Time" -- who cares about a has been prospect that is now a relief pitcher, at best, when this team needs a #3, #4, #5 starter to emerge from a pile of "young" players?

Get Miller some HGH, roids, and set of balls and tell him to play with some pain...

I didn't realize Slegend was Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues!

this is ridiculous miller really is a fuckin pussy

[skatingtripods]

Soreness is always considered an injury to a guy who has been a constant injury for years.

At least Mujica's not getting that 7th spot.

[CDAV6]

I'm going out on a limb and saying Miller solidifies our bullpen this year(and could be more successful than Wood) and moves back into the rotation within 2 years. You can rub it in my face if I am wrong. Miller has been injured the last 2 years. Prior to that he was a top ten prospect in all of baseball. I believe he is 23 or 24 years old and hardly a wash. I'm just trying to balance out the universe here. You can't have all negativity or the earth would spin off its axis. There must be equal ying and yang!

[peeker643]

I'm going out on a limb and saying Miller solidifies our bullpen this year(and could be more successful than Wood) and moves back into the rotation within 2 years. You can rub it in my face if I am wrong. Miller has been injured the last 2 years. Prior to that he was a top ten prospect in all of baseball. I believe he is 23 or 24 years old and hardly a wash. I'm just trying to balance out the universe here. You can't have all negativity or the earth would spin off its axis. There must be equal ying and yang!

Not a person here who doesn't want the same thing and/or more. Just gets frustrating watching this kid unable to get/stay healthy. Not saying it's his fault but it is what it is.

[ArtGold]

Miller is starting to make Rich Harden look reliable and durable.

[Eckersley]

Adam Miller Harden ever got hurt Prior to the past 5 years.

[dazindiansfanuk]

The Adam Miller finger saga continues, and it's drastically going to affect his ability to compete for a bullpen spot.

Miller will be shut down another week to 10 days because of soreness in his right middle finger, head athletic trainer Lonnie Soloff said. After that period, Miller will begin an expedited return-to-throw program that will last about two weeks. The tentative goal is to get him in about four to six Cactus League games after that point.

Hard to imagine the Indians would see enough of Miller or be confident enough in his finger to bring him north at that point, but you never know.

http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... r_upd.html

[hermanfontenot]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

[peeker643]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

Which begs the question, when will someone bitch about the Indians not unloading him before he lost all value. And that will spur the thread "How'd Get Rid of Miller" on the off chance he goes 6 1/3 innings for the Marlins in September of 2013.

You know both threads are coming and there's a strong chance the same poster will start them both.

[hermanfontenot]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

Which begs the question, when will someone bitch about the Indians not unloading him before he lost all value. And that will spur the thread "How'd Get Rid of Miller" on the off chance he goes 6 1/3 innings for the Marlins in September of 2013.

You know both threads are coming and there's a strong chance the same poster will start them both.

Actually, I was expecting:

- Stu to reply flabbergasted that anyone could possibly consider Adam Miller to be injury-prone;

- Wisconsin Tribe Fan to demand a link proving that Adam Miller is a pussy

- Jen to replay with her trademark "Sigh!"

- Lubber to come back with a kneejerk defense of the Steelers, unmindful of the topic of the thread.

But you might be right, Peek.

[hornet84]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

Which begs the question, when will someone bitch about the Indians not unloading him before he lost all value. And that will spur the thread "How'd Get Rid of Miller" on the off chance he goes 6 1/3 innings for the Marlins in September of 2013.

You know both threads are coming and there's a strong chance the same poster will start them both.

Actually, I was expecting:

- Stu to reply flabbergasted that anyone could possibly consider Adam Miller to be injury-prone;

- Wisconsin Tribe Fan to demand a link proving that Adam Miller is a pussy

- Jen to replay with her trademark "Sigh!"

- Lubber to come back with a kneejerk defense of the Steelers, unmindful of the topic of the thread.

But you might be right, Peek.

It is all Wedgie's fault. He has never given the kid a chance to prove himself at the big league level. Miller would be healthy if was with the big club and pitching regularly.

That one was for Alex. I miss you man !

[nwizzle]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

Which begs the question, when will someone bitch about the Indians not unloading him before he lost all value. And that will spur the thread "How'd Get Rid of Miller" on the off chance he goes 6 1/3 innings for the Marlins in September of 2013.

You know both threads are coming and there's a strong chance the same poster will start them both.

Actually, I was expecting:

- Stu to reply flabbergasted that anyone could possibly consider Adam Miller to be injury-prone;

- Wisconsin Tribe Fan to demand a link proving that Adam Miller is a pussy

- Jen to replay with her trademark "Sigh!"

- Lubber to come back with a kneejerk defense of the Steelers, unmindful of the topic of the thread.

But you might be right, Peek.

It is all Wedgie's fault. He has never given the kid a chance to prove himself at the big league level. Miller would be healthy if was with the big club and pitching regularly.

That one was for Alex. I miss you man !

As much as reading his posts absolutely pissed me off I actually miss him too. His irrelevant and inane comments brought a bit of laughter to my day.

As for Miller... I had hope that he would turn the corner this year, I really did. Now it just hurts that I now have to officially expect to get nothing from him. It's depressing to think about how much he could mean to this team and we will probably never get to see it.

[IronMike]

More baby powder please.

The old timers would pitch through an injury like this.

Miller seems to be second coming of Steve Hargan.

This one is for you Tito Francona.

[hornet84]

Pitchers with torn tendons in their fingers just need to man up and pitch The middle finger on your pitching hand has no bearing on your effectiveness whatsoever. Just cut off the finger and play ball !!

[TouchEmAllTime]

6 1/3 innings in one game, a season, or for his career?

My bad, you did say in September of 2013, so I guess that could be one game or one month, but the bottom line is I don't see this guy ever consistently giving us alot of innings at whatever bullpen spot he might be one day.

[consigliere]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

I don't think I would go that far. Outside of this finger injury, Miller has really been healthy his entire career except for an 6 week shutdown 4 years ago for elbow soreness. Other than that, he has been physically fine except for this lingering finger issue. All the problems stem from this finger issue which cropped up two years ago. It is the same injury and apparently it is just not healing right or may not be correctable. I can see if he was coming up with different injuries daily, but it is the same injury.

Sure, end of the day he is not out there.....but is someone really a pussy if there is some non-correctable issue? It's not something he could pitch through or any guy back in the day could pitch through either (back in the day, his career would have already been over).

This is an unfortunate setback for him and the Indians.

[TouchEmAllTime]

A sore finger? I'm giving the kid the benefit of the doubt that if he could go he would, but I think a sore finger warrants being called a pussy and or his manhood questioned, at least when it's been dragging on for a couple seasons now. Maybe it does make it hard to throw or hurts just enough to throw things off but when we read sore finger, ones mind tends to think, are you fucking kidding?

[consigliere]

A sore finger? I'm giving the kid the benefit of the doubt that if he could go he would, but I think a sore finger warrants being called a pussy and or his manhood questioned, at least when it's been dragging on for a couple seasons now. Maybe it does make it hard to throw or hurts just enough to throw things off but when we read sore finger, ones mind tends to think, are you fucking kidding?

Do you have any clue WHY he has a sore finger? It's not like he just woke up a la Juan Gonazalez one day with a sore finger or hang nail.

[TouchEmAllTime]

I would hope it would be from trying to pitch/rehab, was he overworked in winter ball? I'm not really concerned with why to be honest, not really sure that even matters unless he was sticking it in places he shouldn't have been.

[Bigfist]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

I don't think I would go that far. Outside of this finger injury, Miller has really been healthy his entire career except for an 6 week shutdown 4 years ago for elbow soreness. Other than that, he has been physically fine except for this lingering finger issue. All the problems stem from this finger issue which cropped up two years ago. It is the same injury and apparently it is just not healing right or may not be correctable. I can see if he was coming up with different injuries daily, but it is the same injury.

Sure, end of the day he is not out there.....but is someone really a pussy if there is some non-correctable issue? It's not something he could pitch through or any guy back in the day could pitch through either (back in the day, his career would have already been over).

This is an unfortunate setback for him and the Indians.

Tony....I will grant that your knowledge and recollection of Miller's history is no doubt better than mine, but I seemed to remember him missing most of a lot of seasons. I checked thebaseballcube.com, and here is what I came up with:

2003 at Burlington...Miller pitched in 10 games, 32.2 innings. Since that is Rookie League, I understand that.

2004 at Kinston....Miller pitched in 8 games, 43.1 innings. I can't remember the details, but it certainly sounds like he was on the DL for a large portion of that season.

2005..at Mahoning Valley and Kinston...pitched in 15 games, 70.1 innings. I think this is the year he had some elbow issues..shut down for a while, then went to Mahoning Valley when the season started, then to Kinston.

2006...at Akron and Buffalo...pitched in 27 games, 158.1 innings. Looks like that was a healthy season.

2007...at Buffalo...pitched in 19 games (11 as a starter), 65.1 innings. Obviously was hurt a good portion of that season.

2008...at Buffalo...6 games, 28.2 innings.

So...in six seasons, I really only see 2 where he was healthy. I would love to see him make the Tribe's bullpen this year, but frankly, I think if we get anything out of him it will be icing on the cake.

[consigliere]

Adam Miller continues unabated in his quest to supplant Courtney Brown as the biggest pussy in the history of Cleveland sports.

I don't think I would go that far. Outside of this finger injury, Miller has really been healthy his entire career except for an 6 week shutdown 4 years ago for elbow soreness. Other than that, he has been physically fine except for this lingering finger issue. All the problems stem from this finger issue which cropped up two years ago. It is the same injury and apparently it is just not healing right or may not be correctable. I can see if he was coming up with different injuries daily, but it is the same injury.

Sure, end of the day he is not out there.....but is someone really a pussy if there is some non-correctable issue? It's not something he could pitch through or any guy back in the day could pitch through either (back in the day, his career would have already been over).

This is an unfortunate setback for him and the Indians.

Tony....I will grant that your knowledge and recollection of Miller's history is no doubt better than mine, but I seemed to remember him missing most of a lot of seasons. I checked thebaseballcube.com, and here is what I came up with:

2003 at Burlington...Miller pitched in 10 games, 32.2 innings. Since that is Rookie League, I understand that.

2004 at Kinston....Miller pitched in 8 games, 43.1 innings. I can't remember the details, but it certainly sounds like he was on the DL for a large portion of that season.

2005..at Mahoning Valley and Kinston...pitched in 15 games, 70.1 innings. I think this is the year he had some elbow issues..shut down for a while, then went to Mahoning Valley when the season started, then to Kinston.

2006...at Akron and Buffalo...pitched in 27 games, 158.1 innings. Looks like that was a healthy season.

2007...at Buffalo...pitched in 19 games (11 as a starter), 65.1 innings. Obviously was hurt a good portion of that season.

2008...at Buffalo...6 games, 28.2 innings.

So...in six seasons, I really only see 2 where he was healthy. I would love to see him make the Tribe's bullpen this year, but frankly, I think if we get anything out of him it will be icing on the cake.

In 2003 it was his draft year and only a short season for an 18-year old so he was limited with his innings. Baseball Cube is missing his 19 starts and 100 innings at Lake County in 2004. 2005 is the year I mentioned in the above post he was shutdown at the end of spring training for 6 weeks because of the elbow issue and then returned in June. 2006 he was healthy. Then in 2007 the finger injury cropped up.

His first four years from 2003-2006 he was just sidelined for that one stretch out of spring training 2005. It's just really been this damned finger that has cost him what may be his career.

[consigliere]

I would hope it would be from trying to pitch/rehab, was he overworked in winter ball? I'm not really concerned with why to be honest, not really sure that even matters unless he was sticking it in places he shouldn't have been.

Well, the reason he has soreness in the finger is because it is the same finger he has had numerous surgeries on the past two years because of a defective ligament he needed transplanted and also because it had a huge hole in it the result of two callouses creating a gap in the skin. When they opened it up they found it was a lot worse then they thought as the tendons in the finger were starting to fray and that the pulley system in the finger was not working properly, so they had reconstructive surgery on it. You should see the finger, it was completely split open from fingertip to knuckle and stitched back up to fix the issue. Looks awful.

It's a rare, fluke injury and apparently it is going to be hard to rely on him going forward. but I take exception to the notion it is "just soreness" or the guy is a "pussy" cause his finger hurts. Like I said, it is not like he wakes up with a different body part sore everyday or there is no reason behind why he is hurt.....it is the same injury that keeps cropping up and is one they keep trying to fix to no avail.

[TouchEmAllTime]

Thanks for the report, I guess the media shouldn't say sore finger then when it sounds much more involved than that. And from what you say, that doesn't sound very promising at all.

[pup]

Anyone who thinks the middle finger has no bearing on ones ability to pitch, has never pitched.

It is probably the most important portion of the hand. In most cases, it is the last thing to touch the ball on release.

[Eckersley]

It's a shame that this kid can't stay healthy. He's 1 of the very few Mirabelli draft picks to actually have talent.

Miller is still young enough to have an impact on the Tribe some day. I'm still holding out hope.
Maybe late 09 or 2010.

[peeker643]

It's a shame that this kid can't stay healthy. He's 1 of the very few Mirabelli draft picks to actually have talent.

Miller is still young enough to have an impact on the Tribe some day. I'm still holding out hope.
Maybe late 09 or 2010.

Well, you know the old saying Eck:

You can hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster.

I agree with what Castrovince said on the show last night: Write him off in your heads. Consider anything you get from the kid at this point all gravy. Castro said the club was hoping for the kid to win the 7th spot. Not any more. He also said Salas has a very live arm and is a likely benefactor from Miller's injury.

Time will tell.

[Erie Warrior]

Anyone who thinks the middle finger has no bearing on ones ability to pitch, has never pitched.

It is probably the most important portion of the hand. In most cases, it is the last thing to touch the ball on release.

Ronny Lott his ass, and he can learn to use his index finger.

[nwizzle]

The Indians have two other open jobs -- the last bullpen spot and the last bench spot. The bullpen job was Adam Miller's for the taking, but the oft-injured prospect is currently shut down with right middle finger soreness that will basically eliminate him from competition. Miller could see action before the end of camp, but by then, it will probably be too late for him to win a job.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090309&content_id=3953932&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

I'm not seeing the logic here. No one that the Indians have is going to be better than Miller could be, so if he gets healthy by the regular season, and is able to pitch, why not put him on the parent club and let him rip? I don't see the point of holding him back in AAA any longer.

[Steve Buffum]

... so if he gets healthy by the regular season, and is able to pitch, why not put him on the parent club and let him rip? I don't see the point of holding him back in AAA any longer.

Healthy != ready.

He might get a few innings in ... but not enough to actually prepare for Opening Day. The other thing is, you barely need a fifth starter in April, much less a 7th bullpen arm. I'd be more comfortable with him getting at least 15 solid outings under his belt, which he won't get in the spring from what it sounds like. That means they come in Columbus.

I'm not concerned that there's anything sinister going on here.

[Chris]

I would hope it would be from trying to pitch/rehab, was he overworked in winter ball? I'm not really concerned with why to be honest, not really sure that even matters unless he was sticking it in places he shouldn't have been.

Well, the reason he has soreness in the finger is because it is the same finger he has had numerous surgeries on the past two years because of a defective ligament he needed transplanted and also because it had a huge hole in it the result of two callouses creating a gap in the skin. When they opened it up they found it was a lot worse then they thought as the tendons in the finger were starting to fray and that the pulley system in the finger was not working properly, so they had reconstructive surgery on it. You should see the finger, it was completely split open from fingertip to knuckle and stitched back up to fix the issue. Looks awful.

It's a rare, fluke injury and apparently it is going to be hard to rely on him going forward. but I take exception to the notion it is "just soreness" or the guy is a "pussy" cause his finger hurts. Like I said, it is not like he wakes up with a different body part sore everyday or there is no reason behind why he is hurt.....it is the same injury that keeps cropping up and is one they keep trying to fix to no avail.

Top prospect, with game changing talent and...we'll probably never get to really use him.

Only in Cleveland.

[Destiny]

Castro's Blog Seems to me that the baseball gods are saying not right now at the rate Adam Miller is going. Check out a snip of what is written right now at the Blog, for more click the link, or wait until Indians.com has the full story...

Here's the latest update: The good news is that the finger is not giving him any pain; the bad news is that he can't bend the finger at the distal interphalangeal joint -- the joint near the end of the finger, below the nail.

It goes on to say that he will have a hand specialist looking at it on Monday in Scottsdale and the team specialist on Tuesday.

[hornet84]

Nice try. Let's try again in 2010. Maybe he can throw nothing but circle changes

[CharacterIV]

Nice try. Let's try again in 2010. Maybe he can throw nothing but circle changes

It worked for Doug Jones. Why not?

[jordan kramer]

well we already got Wood, Pavano, and Miller. we mine as well go and get Mark Prior, Mike Hampton, and throw in Jaret Wright for good measure

[TouchEmAllTime]

Adam Miller should now just be referred to as a minor leaguer, not a prospect.

[Chris]

This guy will never contribute at a major league level. Never.

[WiscTribeFan]

Top prospect, with game changing talent and...we'll probably never get to really use him.

Only in Cleveland.

And every other team that has ever drafted a player.

[IronMike]

Character IV ... agree on the Doug Jones comment. Posted many times the Indians should bring him into camp every spring and work with the pitching staff. Instead we get Sean Casey. Doug Jones was phenomenal late in his career after spending many seasons in the minor leagues. What a great change up he had, delivered at three different speeds.

Also, the comment about Bob Wickman having the tip of his finger cut off was a good one. It seems to many of us, Miller is just north of being called an official "cake eater."

We are all questioning Miller's toughness, I only HOPE all of these issues are serious and not minor in nature.

Interesting comments from Dick Pole then Dusty Baker's pitching coach with the Cubs ... can't quote him, but he did tell two of my friends privately in the dugout who were locker room guests of Baker and both long time Indians fans that both Kerry Wood and Mark Prior lacked toughness too. They should have been able to pitch through many of their ailments.

In a passing comment, Dick Pole did say Albert Belle was a SOB but the most focused athlete he ever saw.

[OSU819903]

Iron Mike, Can we really judge a pitcher's toughness is today's baseball? Especially one that has been has highly touted (and b/c of that highly guarded). I'm just saying that I do not believe the Indians would even let Miller pitch through pain right now, even if he wanted to.

[leadpipe]

As Wisc alludes to, pitchers get hurt every year. A LOT of pitchers.

It's common.

The only difference here is it's a top prospect in the organization - and even this happens often.

It has little to do with toughness. During a violent process, something tweaks, you lose some MPH and/or action and you're not the same guy.

A young pitcher is about the worst gamble of any position in any major sport.

History show us this.