Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

[consigliere]

Interesting.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... p&c_id=cle

Shortly after Dolan's comments, the Indians took the field to play the Giants in what turned out to be a 10-7 loss, and Jeremy Sowers, in front of 4,181 fans and a national audience on MLB Network, delivered the first official pitch at the Tribe's new home away from home.

Clearly, though, the economy is going to impact the Indians at the turnstiles this spring. Having less than half of the 10,000-seat ballpark filled for the opener had to be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. But Dolan said he's not overly concerned with the attendance forecast.

"Cleveland fans love baseball," Dolan said. "And 85 degrees and clear blue skies sells itself."

Wow, for such a highly anticipated game, and all the media coverage by the local Phoenix media both in print and electronic, this is a big disappointment if you ask me. Half filled for the first game in a brand new place? Seems like a lot of fans have not carried over yet from Winter Haven to Goodyear or may be coming later in the spring.

[tribefan333]

I don't know the numbers - but wouldn't more people go to games later in the spring? Especially with schools having spring breaks and such.

Surprised local Arizona(ians? Arizonaons? I just had an Anchorman moment) didn't fill up the park alone.

[stretch51]

Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.

[Bigfist]

Arizona has really been hit by the recession. I realize every state has, but their budget deficit is so large that in-state tuition to the state schools (ASU, U of A, and NAU) has doubled for next year. Not sure if that has much to do with the poor showing of fans yesterday, but Arizona is suffering.

[Emmo213]

The stadium looked really empty during the game yesterday. I'm not surprised it was only 1/2 full. While I agree there are many merits to moving back to Arizona, I don't expect people will travel there as well as they did to Florida. Airfare to Florida could be found for less than $200 easily. You can get cheap airfare to Phoenix but it'll be harder to come by. On the other hand, it might take awhile for the local fan base to build up.

[consigliere]

Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.

The meat of the Indians spring training home schedule is this week and next week (half of their home games). Aside from a good homestand for the week of March 15-21, there is no better time to catch the Indians in Goodyear than this week and next.

Also, the airfare is not much different than to Tampa or Orlando. In fact, the non-stop flights from Cleve to Phoenix have been anywhere from $228 to $417 with taxes/fees included depending on when you look, and Cleveland to Orlando/Tampa typically is somewhere between $200-250. The hotel rates and everything else aren't that much different either (rental car rates are through the roof though).

Clearly, the big difference, is the fact you can reasonably drive to Florida from Ohio, whereas to drive to Phoenix from NE Ohio is a freaking haul. It is about double the distance. I've google mapped the drive route from Cleveland to Phoenix numerous times and studied it and it is insane. I don't think I would ever drive that unless I planned to be out there a month. 30+ hours of actual drive time, which if you drive 10 hours a day is a three day haul.....whereas I can get from Cleveland to Winter Haven in about 15-16 hours in one day driving straight through like I always do.

Also, yes, the recession is not helping things. I am willing to bet that the first thing to go for a lot of people was extra vacations/trips as families are cutting back, and this undoubtedly is affecting Goodyear attendance. That said, however, I am curious to see attendance at the White Sox, Brewers, Cubs, Braves, and other camps out in Arizona that are long trips away.

[ZinAZ]

another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.

[jameseboy]

What was attendance at cubs games? Give us a better idea if attendance means anything. I figure reasons are
1 way early in spring training more folks will go as more of the major leaguers play
2 Tribe is new to area..wont have a fan base of its own out there
3 Day games so folks are at work

[stretch51]

Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.

The meat of the Indians spring training home schedule is this week and next week (half of their home games). Aside from a good homestand for the week of March 15-21, there is no better time to catch the Indians in Goodyear than this week and next.

Also, the airfare is not much different than to Tampa or Orlando. In fact, the non-stop flights from Cleve to Phoenix have been anywhere from $228 to $417 with taxes/fees included depending on when you look, and Cleveland to Orlando/Tampa typically is somewhere between $200-250. The hotel rates and everything else aren't that much different either (rental car rates are through the roof though).

Clearly, the big difference, is the fact you can reasonably drive to Florida from Ohio, whereas to drive to Phoenix from NE Ohio is a freaking haul. It is about double the distance. I've google mapped the drive route from Cleveland to Phoenix numerous times and studied it and it is insane. I don't think I would ever drive that unless I planned to be out there a month. 30+ hours of actual drive time, which if you drive 10 hours a day is a three day haul.....whereas I can get from Cleveland to Winter Haven in about 15-16 hours in one day driving straight through like I always do.

Also, yes, the recession is not helping things. I am willing to bet that the first thing to go for a lot of people was extra vacations/trips as families are cutting back, and this undoubtedly is affecting Goodyear attendance. That said, however, I am curious to see attendance at the White Sox, Brewers, Cubs, Braves, and other camps out in Arizona that are long trips away.

I'd also think that the World Baseball Classic will pull away attendance. While the big stars are playing for National Pride, the B & C Teams are eating at the Big Boys table and the 'names' aren't there.

[jordan kramer]

from the looks of it the complex is in the middle of NOWHERE. that may hurt the walk-ups, which probably make up a lot of the attendance in Florida

[Yinzer Hater]

another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.

This is why I thought it was a bad idea to select the area. I was ecstatic when I heard we were setting up shop back in the Cactus League. I am not going to let it ruin my time when I head out there next week for 10 days. I will form my own opinion only after I am back.

[justmebd]

I live about 35-45 minutes from GoodYear, and I can tell you the recession has hit this city hard. Plus the midweek afternoon games aren't good if you still have a job.

I was planning on going to 3-4 games this Spring, but my wife lost her job and now we have to save every penny.

The silver lining is I can (Hopefully) enjoy the Indians at Spring Training for many years to come. Unless I also lose my job and have to move back in with my parents in NE Ohio. I grew up in NE Ohio and I love NE Ohio. I just don't want to live there from October through April. I kind of like being warm 12 months a year.

[TribeNut]

Another factor to consider is saturation- how many teams are now in Arizona? How many teams were in Florida? Only so many local folks who have time during the day to go to a game. Sun City residents have all kinds of ballgames they can go to in that area.

[scott]

1) I've got in-laws on the west coast of Florida, a brother and his family on the east coast and cousins in Winter Haven. Easy to call it a spring vacation, head down and see family and catch a game or two. Here's the wife and son last year. Fausto was on the mound against the Phillies. The boy met Bob Feller who was signing autographs that day. I don't know anyone in Arizona. I don't know if I'll ever make it out there.



2) There were three types of people at the games at Chain-o-Lakes - Spring Breakers from Ohio, local retirees from Ohio and local retirees. The third crowd would be there today cheering for whoever if another team replaced the Tribe this year. It will take a few years to develop a local following.

[consigliere]

another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.

This is why I thought it was a bad idea to select the area. I was ecstatic when I heard we were setting up shop back in the Cactus League. I am not going to let it ruin my time when I head out there next week for 10 days. I will form my own opinion only after I am back.

I'm not sure the proximity to the other spring sites is an issue, as the Indians are at most a 20-25 minute drive to about 9-10 of the teams. Whereas in Florida, everyone was about a 1-4 hour bus trip.

But yeah, saturation might be a key issue as you will have 15 baseball teams in the greater Phoenix area fighting for the sports dollar of the people there. Only so much to go around, especially since I don't see nearly as many people travelling in from Ohio.

[ArtGold]

Well, to a large extent if the spring training support is poor...I blame the Indians.

A couple of years ago I complained that they appear to be too mercenary. When I look at clubs like the Tigers, Pirates and Phillies, they have been in the same spring location for decades. Their fans often end up buying retirement places near the spring sites, and it is really a great social activity. I really enjoyed stopping by on my spring trips through Florida and seeing the Tiger fans in Lakeland, the Pirate fans in Bradenton or the Phillies fans in Clearwater. Many are retired, and based their purchase on being near the team spring sites.

It is a whole community thing, and a great activity focus for many folks. The banter is remarkable, and very enjoyable to watch a game and get the insights of these fans. The families join during spring break, and the atmosphere is great.

The Indians frequent moving around has prevented this from happening for this team.

[1Perry]

Nice facilities but I doubt the Indians ever get the number of fans in Arizona that they would in Florida.

[consigliere]

Nice facilities but I doubt the Indians ever get the number of fans in Arizona that they would in Florida.

This is very true.

Though, I am sure when it all boils down to it, the Indians don't care how many fans come. That place was built primarily as a sister operation for their player development purposes that they will use 365 days a year without fans present. Fans are only there for 6 weeks a year in spring training to catch a look at the players working out, and to see 15 games that they get very little return on at the gate/concessions.

[Desert Wahoo]

For one who lives in the East Valley and took the trek out to Godyear for the opener. I can say the same thing as the others. I'll go to one or two games a year out at the "home park", however The Angels, Cubs, and A's will be getting my business when the Tribe comes to thier parks because they are so much closer. Gotta say the park is real nice and the area will build out within a few years. Overall I don't think it will be a big deal. The Cactus league does good attendance numbers and when the economy gets a bit better more fans will show up.

Oh and on a side note... I know I can go to clubs website for clothes and stuff. I love the fact I have the ability to go to the "team shop" now.