Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:20 pm

Interesting.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... p&c_id=cle

Shortly after Dolan's comments, the Indians took the field to play the Giants in what turned out to be a 10-7 loss, and Jeremy Sowers, in front of 4,181 fans and a national audience on MLB Network, delivered the first official pitch at the Tribe's new home away from home.

Clearly, though, the economy is going to impact the Indians at the turnstiles this spring. Having less than half of the 10,000-seat ballpark filled for the opener had to be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. But Dolan said he's not overly concerned with the attendance forecast.

"Cleveland fans love baseball," Dolan said. "And 85 degrees and clear blue skies sells itself."


Wow, for such a highly anticipated game, and all the media coverage by the local Phoenix media both in print and electronic, this is a big disappointment if you ask me. Half filled for the first game in a brand new place? Seems like a lot of fans have not carried over yet from Winter Haven to Goodyear or may be coming later in the spring.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby tribefan333 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:47 pm

I don't know the numbers - but wouldn't more people go to games later in the spring? Especially with schools having spring breaks and such.

Surprised local Arizona(ians? Arizonaons? I just had an Anchorman moment) didn't fill up the park alone.
User avatar
tribefan333
Cleveland Rocks
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:37 am
Location: Green, OH
Favorite Player: Grady/Fausto/Cabrera
Least Favorite Player: Joba Chamberlain

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby stretch51 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:15 pm

Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.
Image
User avatar
stretch51
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:50 am
Location: Dayton, OH area
Favorite Player: Joe Jakubick
Least Favorite Player: Loy Vaught

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:19 pm

Arizona has really been hit by the recession. I realize every state has, but their budget deficit is so large that in-state tuition to the state schools (ASU, U of A, and NAU) has doubled for next year. Not sure if that has much to do with the poor showing of fans yesterday, but Arizona is suffering.
User avatar
Bigfist
 
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:02 am
Location: Kinston, NC
Favorite Player: AJ Griffin
Least Favorite Player: Jeff Juden

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby Emmo213 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:43 pm

The stadium looked really empty during the game yesterday. I'm not surprised it was only 1/2 full. While I agree there are many merits to moving back to Arizona, I don't expect people will travel there as well as they did to Florida. Airfare to Florida could be found for less than $200 easily. You can get cheap airfare to Phoenix but it'll be harder to come by. On the other hand, it might take awhile for the local fan base to build up.
You can't spell "Blake" without an K *and* an E, and then all you have left is "bla." - Steve Buffum
User avatar
Emmo213
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Amherst, Oh
Favorite Player: VMart
Least Favorite Player: Casey Freakin Blake

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:59 pm

stretch51 wrote:Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.


The meat of the Indians spring training home schedule is this week and next week (half of their home games). Aside from a good homestand for the week of March 15-21, there is no better time to catch the Indians in Goodyear than this week and next.

Also, the airfare is not much different than to Tampa or Orlando. In fact, the non-stop flights from Cleve to Phoenix have been anywhere from $228 to $417 with taxes/fees included depending on when you look, and Cleveland to Orlando/Tampa typically is somewhere between $200-250. The hotel rates and everything else aren't that much different either (rental car rates are through the roof though).

Clearly, the big difference, is the fact you can reasonably drive to Florida from Ohio, whereas to drive to Phoenix from NE Ohio is a freaking haul. It is about double the distance. I've google mapped the drive route from Cleveland to Phoenix numerous times and studied it and it is insane. I don't think I would ever drive that unless I planned to be out there a month. 30+ hours of actual drive time, which if you drive 10 hours a day is a three day haul.....whereas I can get from Cleveland to Winter Haven in about 15-16 hours in one day driving straight through like I always do.

Also, yes, the recession is not helping things. I am willing to bet that the first thing to go for a lot of people was extra vacations/trips as families are cutting back, and this undoubtedly is affecting Goodyear attendance. That said, however, I am curious to see attendance at the White Sox, Brewers, Cubs, Braves, and other camps out in Arizona that are long trips away.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby ZinAZ » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:22 pm

another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.
ZinAZ
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ
Favorite Player: Asdrubal
Least Favorite Player: Any Pinstripe

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby jameseboy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:46 pm

What was attendance at cubs games? Give us a better idea if attendance means anything. I figure reasons are
1 way early in spring training more folks will go as more of the major leaguers play
2 Tribe is new to area..wont have a fan base of its own out there
3 Day games so folks are at work
jameseboy
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:16 am

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby stretch51 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:04 pm

Consigliere wrote:
stretch51 wrote:Truthfully, Tuscon never really had many people show up for the Indians. The club was not very good at the time, but the real argument to me is that Arizona seems like a million miles away.

I mean, in Florida, you can hop in a car from Ohio and be at Winter Haven in about 20 hours. Then not only did you have the Indians, but the Tigers, Yankees, Reds, Pirates, Braves, and Astros within a reasonable drive.

I don't expect many Clevelanders (especially in this economy) to vacation in Spring Training in Arizona.


The meat of the Indians spring training home schedule is this week and next week (half of their home games). Aside from a good homestand for the week of March 15-21, there is no better time to catch the Indians in Goodyear than this week and next.

Also, the airfare is not much different than to Tampa or Orlando. In fact, the non-stop flights from Cleve to Phoenix have been anywhere from $228 to $417 with taxes/fees included depending on when you look, and Cleveland to Orlando/Tampa typically is somewhere between $200-250. The hotel rates and everything else aren't that much different either (rental car rates are through the roof though).

Clearly, the big difference, is the fact you can reasonably drive to Florida from Ohio, whereas to drive to Phoenix from NE Ohio is a freaking haul. It is about double the distance. I've google mapped the drive route from Cleveland to Phoenix numerous times and studied it and it is insane. I don't think I would ever drive that unless I planned to be out there a month. 30+ hours of actual drive time, which if you drive 10 hours a day is a three day haul.....whereas I can get from Cleveland to Winter Haven in about 15-16 hours in one day driving straight through like I always do.

Also, yes, the recession is not helping things. I am willing to bet that the first thing to go for a lot of people was extra vacations/trips as families are cutting back, and this undoubtedly is affecting Goodyear attendance. That said, however, I am curious to see attendance at the White Sox, Brewers, Cubs, Braves, and other camps out in Arizona that are long trips away.


I'd also think that the World Baseball Classic will pull away attendance. While the big stars are playing for National Pride, the B & C Teams are eating at the Big Boys table and the 'names' aren't there.
Image
User avatar
stretch51
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:50 am
Location: Dayton, OH area
Favorite Player: Joe Jakubick
Least Favorite Player: Loy Vaught

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:49 pm

from the looks of it the complex is in the middle of NOWHERE. that may hurt the walk-ups, which probably make up a lot of the attendance in Florida
"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home."
"in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

"i'm going to pull your endocrine system out of your body" - Gary Busey
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Who cares about this crap?

WE GOT A MUTHA FUCKIN EARTHQUAKE MACHINE!
User avatar
jordan kramer
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:24 pm
Location: "the brooklyn of youngstown"
Favorite Player: brown eyed girls
Least Favorite Player: my girlfriend

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby Yinzer Hater » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:28 pm

ZinAZ wrote:another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.


This is why I thought it was a bad idea to select the area. I was ecstatic when I heard we were setting up shop back in the Cactus League. I am not going to let it ruin my time when I head out there next week for 10 days. I will form my own opinion only after I am back.
Definition,Yinzer : A person who lives in a trailer off government money,drinks iron city beer,has limited intelligence,follows the Steelers, and refuses to accept the fact that their team is actually piss yellow and not gold.
User avatar
Yinzer Hater
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Westerville, OH
Favorite Player: Shin-Soo Choo
Least Favorite Player: Worthlessberger

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby justmebd » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:46 pm

I live about 35-45 minutes from GoodYear, and I can tell you the recession has hit this city hard. Plus the midweek afternoon games aren't good if you still have a job.

I was planning on going to 3-4 games this Spring, but my wife lost her job and now we have to save every penny.

The silver lining is I can (Hopefully) enjoy the Indians at Spring Training for many years to come. Unless I also lose my job and have to move back in with my parents in NE Ohio. I grew up in NE Ohio and I love NE Ohio. I just don't want to live there from October through April. I kind of like being warm 12 months a year.
User avatar
justmebd
 
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:27 pm
Location: Youngstown, OH
Favorite Player: Gary Gygax
Least Favorite Player: Heinz Field Occupant

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby TribeNut » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:50 pm

Another factor to consider is saturation- how many teams are now in Arizona? How many teams were in Florida? Only so many local folks who have time during the day to go to a game. Sun City residents have all kinds of ballgames they can go to in that area.
User avatar
TribeNut
Late Inning Defensive Replacement
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:54 am
Favorite Player: Lou Marson
Least Favorite Player: Aj Pierzinski

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby scott » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:33 pm

1) I've got in-laws on the west coast of Florida, a brother and his family on the east coast and cousins in Winter Haven. Easy to call it a spring vacation, head down and see family and catch a game or two. Here's the wife and son last year. Fausto was on the mound against the Phillies. The boy met Bob Feller who was signing autographs that day. I don't know anyone in Arizona. I don't know if I'll ever make it out there.

Image

2) There were three types of people at the games at Chain-o-Lakes - Spring Breakers from Ohio, local retirees from Ohio and local retirees. The third crowd would be there today cheering for whoever if another team replaced the Tribe this year. It will take a few years to develop a local following.
User avatar
scott
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: New York
Favorite Player: Sabby Piscitelli
Least Favorite Player: Everyone Else

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby consigliere » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:09 am

Yinzer Hater wrote:
ZinAZ wrote:another issue is the location unless you live in the west valley area its quite a hall out to Goodyear. As an Indians fan living in the east valley I doubt I will make the trip very often.
It will be much easier for me to go to road games in the East valley.


This is why I thought it was a bad idea to select the area. I was ecstatic when I heard we were setting up shop back in the Cactus League. I am not going to let it ruin my time when I head out there next week for 10 days. I will form my own opinion only after I am back.


I'm not sure the proximity to the other spring sites is an issue, as the Indians are at most a 20-25 minute drive to about 9-10 of the teams. Whereas in Florida, everyone was about a 1-4 hour bus trip.

But yeah, saturation might be a key issue as you will have 15 baseball teams in the greater Phoenix area fighting for the sports dollar of the people there. Only so much to go around, especially since I don't see nearly as many people travelling in from Ohio.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby ArtGold » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:50 pm

Well, to a large extent if the spring training support is poor...I blame the Indians.

A couple of years ago I complained that they appear to be too mercenary. When I look at clubs like the Tigers, Pirates and Phillies, they have been in the same spring location for decades. Their fans often end up buying retirement places near the spring sites, and it is really a great social activity. I really enjoyed stopping by on my spring trips through Florida and seeing the Tiger fans in Lakeland, the Pirate fans in Bradenton or the Phillies fans in Clearwater. Many are retired, and based their purchase on being near the team spring sites.

It is a whole community thing, and a great activity focus for many folks. The banter is remarkable, and very enjoyable to watch a game and get the insights of these fans. The families join during spring break, and the atmosphere is great.

The Indians frequent moving around has prevented this from happening for this team.
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby 1Perry » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:38 pm

Nice facilities but I doubt the Indians ever get the number of fans in Arizona that they would in Florida.
User avatar
1Perry
The Shapiro of Posters
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:56 pm

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby consigliere » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:37 pm

1Perry wrote:Nice facilities but I doubt the Indians ever get the number of fans in Arizona that they would in Florida.


This is very true.

Though, I am sure when it all boils down to it, the Indians don't care how many fans come. That place was built primarily as a sister operation for their player development purposes that they will use 365 days a year without fans present. Fans are only there for 6 weeks a year in spring training to catch a look at the players working out, and to see 15 games that they get very little return on at the gate/concessions.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Disappointing Returns So Far In Goodyear

Unread postby Desert Wahoo » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:46 pm

For one who lives in the East Valley and took the trek out to Godyear for the opener. I can say the same thing as the others. I'll go to one or two games a year out at the "home park", however The Angels, Cubs, and A's will be getting my business when the Tribe comes to thier parks because they are so much closer. Gotta say the park is real nice and the area will build out within a few years. Overall I don't think it will be a big deal. The Cactus league does good attendance numbers and when the economy gets a bit better more fans will show up.

Oh and on a side note... I know I can go to clubs website for clothes and stuff. I love the fact I have the ability to go to the "team shop" now.
User avatar
Desert Wahoo
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:27 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ
Favorite Player: Double me up Choo
Least Favorite Player: A-Roid


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gbot and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: gbot and 1 guest