Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

by **Juannieboy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:18 pm

As reported by Windhorst. Crazy!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... dup-090218

by **scott** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:19 pm

Juannieboy wrote:As reported by Windhorst. Crazy!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... dup-090218

As discussed here - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11895&start=50

No offense Juannie just already part of a thread.

by **consigliere** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:26 pm

Sign me up

by **Juannieboy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:28 pm

Consigliere wrote:Sign me up

Yeah, me too. Looks like Ferry gonna go "all in" for the Championship.

Edit- if this pans out, I mean

by **waborat** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:30 pm

C'mon Kerr, JUST DO IT

by **Juannieboy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:33 pm

waborat wrote:C'mon Kerr, JUST DO IT

I would think Shaq would wear down quickly in the return back to the run and gun and they really want/need to shed some payroll. Might just make sense.

by **AK-ROWDY** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:42 pm

plus it gets the suns two three shooters

by **mmonast** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:43 pm

UPDATE (12:29 p.m. ET): Multiple sources with knowledge of the talks between Cleveland and Phoenix today are saying as of noontime that a deal actually coming together to team Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James is very unlikely.

No one is denying that the teams have talked, but we're getting strong hints now that this deal is in no way close.

well thats didnt take long...

by **Hi Oktane** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:45 pm

AK-ROWDY wrote:plus it gets the suns two three shooters

Yeah, I hear Big Ben has been working hard on his outside game.

by **osucrazy18** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:45 pm

wtf is windhurts talking about then???

come on KERR grow a pair

by **AK-ROWDY** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:51 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
AK-ROWDY wrote:plus it gets the suns two three shooters

Yeah, I hear Big Ben has been working hard on his outside game.

Sorry I heard wally and sasha

by rk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:54 pm

AK-ROWDY wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
AK-ROWDY wrote:plus it gets the suns two three shooters

Yeah, I hear Big Ben has been working hard on his outside game.

Sorry I heard wally and sasha

Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

by **CharacterIV** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:55 pm

AK-ROWDY wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
AK-ROWDY wrote:plus it gets the suns two three shooters

Yeah, I hear Big Ben has been working hard on his outside game.

Sorry I heard wally and sasha

I read that was part of the problem; Ferry wanted to move Ben for Shaq, and the Suns want Wally, whose money comes off this season instead of next.

It'd be pretty funny if this were to happen; Shaq and Z spelling each other at Center? Opposing bigs wouldn't have a clue what to do. First they get stretched out to 18 feet away from the bucket by the shooting touch of the lanky Lithuanian, then Shaq's power game inside drives them down like a nail into the hardwood. It'd be funny as hell.

by **Ziner** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:56 pm

rk wrote:
AK-ROWDY wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
AK-ROWDY wrote:plus it gets the suns two three shooters

Yeah, I hear Big Ben has been working hard on his outside game.

Sorry I heard wally and sasha

Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

If they buy out Wally I'd do it... We can get Shaq for Sasha. While I am not high on Shaqtus, I am for just Sasha. I just wish he wasnt so old he looks like he is playing with leg Shaqkels. :bag:

by **Larvell Blanks** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:57 pm

osucrazy18 wrote:wtf is windhurts talking about then???

come on KERR grow a pair

the quote about the deal being unlikely was from the ESPN chat. I haven't heard anything like that from Windy, yet. There's still 2 hours left so take what you hear w/ a grain of salt. Last year we didn't hear about the big trade until after the deadline passed.

by **Triple-S** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:58 pm

Maybe if this was 2000? Shaq is pretty damn old. There's a reason why he's the Icey-Hot spokes person. I'd rather have Big Ben (the ONLY person worthy of the title IMO.).

Now if it's for Wally and Sasha, then yeah...maybe.

by rk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:00 pm

For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

by **jfiling** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:02 pm

rk wrote:For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

Yeah, I just read that Z could end up being the second tallest power forward in NBA history, one inch shorter than Ralph Sampson (Hakeem was the 5).

by CP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:04 pm

You don't need to pull bodies out of the paint. You just can't have them abandoning their guy every time LeBron heads for the rim. They have to stay with Shaq or face him dunking the ball.

by **consigliere** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:06 pm

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

by CP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:09 pm

Consigliere wrote:
rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

I think the hangup is worrying about getting stuck with both Shaq and Ben's contracts next season and/or not being able to really go out and send Wally somewhere for another player.

by **googleeph2** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:12 pm

[quote="Consigliere"]

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.[/quote]

Agree. Shaq in the playoffs with all the days off would be pret-ty interesting.

by **Frank Duffy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:13 pm

The difference btn Wally + Sasha vs. Ben + Sasha is massive. Keeping Ben and trading Wally's expiring contract would save PHO about $13M. but would put Gilbert massively into the luxury tax. This is Ferry being clever, but maybe too clever. That's why Kerr would be happy with Wally inserted.
And, didn't we find out with McDyess that Wally couldn't come back for 30 days. Doesn't that put him past the March 1 playoff deadline?

by **pup** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:14 pm

Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

by **Hi Oktane** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:14 pm

Consigliere wrote:
rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

T, I think including Wally f's up TBO's purported wet dream of adding a wing player (VC, RJ) IN ADDITION to Shaqtastic. The Cavs may fear dealing Wally without getting a perimeter player in return is risky given the depth/health of their backcourt. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just saying it's a Ben Wallace type of slam dunk for me right now.

by **Hi Oktane** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:16 pm

Pup wrote:Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

Andy can guard jump shooters who have no desire to get to the FT line fairly effectively, no?

by **pup** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:18 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
Pup wrote:Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

Andy can guard jump shooters who have no desire to get to the FT line fairly effectively, no?

No. And damn sure not for 40 minutes in a Game 7.

by **Juannieboy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:20 pm

rk wrote:For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

But , assuming we would met the Lakers in the finals, Gasol couldn't just waltz into the blocks against Shaq like he did to us the last time. I think he could push him out farther and not let him get so damn comfortable before abusing us.

by **AK-ROWDY** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:21 pm

Frank Duffy wrote:The difference btn Wally + Sasha vs. Ben + Sasha is massive. Keeping Ben and trading Wally's expiring contract would save PHO about $13M. but would put Gilbert massively into the luxury tax. This is Ferry being clever, but maybe too clever. That's why Kerr would be happy with Wally inserted.
And, didn't we find out with McDyess that Wally couldn't come back for 30 days. Doesn't that put him past the March 1 playoff deadline?

The player has to be released by march 1 if I understand the rule correctly it doesn't matter when he is resigned

by **Frank Duffy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:23 pm

Getting Shaq and then trading Wally for RJ or VC would, once again, put Gilbert maybe $30-40 into the luxury tax. I know mortgages are now booming, but that's a lot of money, and he'd likely be eviscerated by the other owners. VC and RJ both go into 2010 too, so they'd be pretty much Ferry's last bullet. I like RJ a lot but is he that good?

by **waborat** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:24 pm

Pup wrote:Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

The JJ fans would get their XMas early

by **consigliere** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:25 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
Consigliere wrote:
rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

T, I think including Wally f's up TBO's purported wet dream of adding a wing player (VC, RJ) IN ADDITION to Shaqtastic. The Cavs may fear dealing Wally without getting a perimeter player in return is risky given the depth/health of their backcourt. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just saying it's a Ben Wallace type of slam dunk for me right now.

Touche.

Lord, what a coup it would be to get Shaq and maybe a wing player like Carter/Jefferson.

by **Bill the Butcher** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:31 pm

Ehhhh. Yea. Maybe. I guess?

idk

by **Triple-S** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:34 pm

TEH GREATEST GAME EVA!

:hide:

Seriously, if this thing goes down. WAR anyone who puts this as their picture for their article tommorow.

by **Bill the Butcher** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:35 pm

LOL.... "Enforcer of Justice"

by **leadpipe** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:36 pm

The problem with the deal is what you would call him here; The Big Traffic cone, The Big deficit....

by **CharacterIV** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:38 pm

Consigliere wrote:Lord, what a coup it would be to get Shaq and maybe a wing player like Carter/Jefferson.

It'd be the ultimate test of chemistry vs. talent. Shaq and RJ/VC would be an unquestioned talent upgrade over Wally, Ben and Sasha, but Ben has (at his best) established himself as a defensive leader for this team, and Wally's been playing with an insane level of guts for the better part of the season. Not only that, but acquiring RJ/VC would push Delonte out of the starting lineup, and it seems that a big part of his blossoming this season on both ends of the floor is based on the fact that a coach has finally had the confidence in him to play him as a starter and to play him at the 2, which is where he feels most comfortable.

Bringing in names like Shaq and Jefferson or Carter, with those histories, paychecks and egos makes it seem like it might be hard to get all the horses to pull in the same direction. But if they did, the results would be unstoppable.

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:38 pm

Triple-S wrote:

TEH GREATEST GAME EVA!

Seriously, if this thing goes down. WAR anyone who puts this as their picture for their article tommorow.

Can't have one without the other. Now someone needs to post the Steel movie poster.

by **Juannieboy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:39 pm

waborat wrote:
Pup wrote:Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

The JJ fans would get their XMas early

No matter what happens today, I don't want to see JJ get moved out of Cleveland. His game is really improving. Where did he get that smooth outside jumper from last night? That was pretty sweet!

by **Doc** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:41 pm

Just tell them to add in J-Rich and we'll throw in Wally.

Wally/Ben/Sasha for J-Rich/Diesel.

I don't know how it affects the team...but I'm grinning all day long thinking about Shaq in the Wine and Gold. :nanner:

by **Frank Duffy** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:42 pm

Hey Tony, I totally agree they need to do something. They have, what, 3 real quality wins this year (Boston, Portland, NO) and have gotten waxed by the good teams. And, Shaq is a real upgrade over Ben, who had a spurt early this year but looks old and tired now (he's only 6'7", any physical decline and he's cooked.) But Shaq for Wally would be a major blow to Gilbert's wallet. And they still have to resign AV at about 8M, if they're lucky. I also agree that I'll be pissed if he out-clevers himself, but the Ben+Sasha offer is pretty brilliant.
AK, I did some googling and have seen the March 1 rule both ways. (???)

by **waborat** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:43 pm

Windy just blogged that something is going down between CLE/PHO and another team

by **4thQtrGlory** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:45 pm

waborat wrote:Windy just blogged that something is going down between CLE/PHO and another team

wabs,can you put a link here so we can follow the blog? thanks man

by **waborat** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:46 pm

4thQtrGlory wrote:
waborat wrote:Windy just blogged that something is going down between CLE/PHO and another team

wabs,can you put a link here so we can follow the blog? thanks man

Sorry, assumed people had it:

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... gling.html

His last post was at 1:31pm

by **Bill the Butcher** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:48 pm

Actually, last one was 1:42.

by **Hi Oktane** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:51 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:The problem with the deal is what you would call him here; The Big Traffic cone, The Big deficit....

DS has suggested The Big Perogi, LOL.

by **consigliere** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:52 pm

Alright, no specifics (must protect source), but the O'Neal offer is still alive but the teams are looking for a 3rd team for salary cap purposes (think Keith Van Horn last year in the Jason Kidd trade).

There is a second big deal being worked out as we speak. My source tells me that the teams are negotiating which picks to include, as the Cavs are reluctant to include two first round picks. Stay tuned, but this one might come down to the wire. Again.

That's from Windy's blog.....Shaq AND possibly a Jamison/Carter/Jefferson?

WOW.

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:53 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:Actually, last one was 1:42.

Comment's about the debate between including 2 1st's, sounds like a huge trade.

by **onlyindreams** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:54 pm

Guys, that doesn't really sound like Windhorst...I kind of want to be wrong just for the excitement of the deal. Anyone can post in the comments section and I'm sure someone could register the name "Windhorst" and try to scam everyone.

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:55 pm

onlyindreams wrote:Guys, that doesn't really sound like Windhorst...I kind of want to be wrong just for the excitement of the deal. Anyone can post in the comments section and I'm sure someone could register the name "Windhorst" and try to scam everyone.

It's not.

Folks:
We just talked with Brian, and this commenter is NOT Brian Windhorst. So anything you see posted by "Windhorst" is not from the PD beat writer. Carry on.

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