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Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:51 pm

MLB network shows it on Tuesday nights. I forgot how excellent this documentary is. Worth re-watching during this slow (if you aren't big into hoops) sports season.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby swerb » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:55 pm

Embarrassed to say I have never seen this. Been meaning to since it came out. Inning 1 has been slowly working its way up my Netflix Q, but just can't get above #20 as I keep adding new releases to the top.

Heard really great things from everyone that's seen it.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:01 pm

I remember staying up late to watch it when it aired on WOSU down here. I thought it was really good. Alot of people call his work boring, I found it very good and it taught me alot that I never knew about the game.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby mikebrownz26 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:50 pm

I got it this past Christmas. Still haven't watched it yet but I will soon.

His Civil War documentary is fantastic.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:23 am

I remember watching the series when it first came out in 1994. It was on PBS at night, and I got home from summer league practice just in time to see it. Weird what things you remember about being a kid.

The 10th inning will be added in 2010, covering 1994 to 2008

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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:56 pm

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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:26 pm

swerb wrote:Embarrassed to say I have never seen this. Been meaning to since it came out. Inning 1 has been slowly working its way up my Netflix Q, but just can't get above #20 as I keep adding new releases to the top.

Heard really great things from everyone that's seen it.



Just buy the dvd set, rich. You won't regret it. Burns MLB : sports history :: Band of Brothers : war series. The pre- 1950's stuff is amazing.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jack_tors » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:44 pm

jb wrote:
swerb wrote:Embarrassed to say I have never seen this. Been meaning to since it came out. Inning 1 has been slowly working its way up my Netflix Q, but just can't get above #20 as I keep adding new releases to the top.

Heard really great things from everyone that's seen it.



Just buy the dvd set, rich. You won't regret it. Burns MLB : sports history :: Band of Brothers : war series. The pre- 1950's stuff is amazing.


Second this statement. I got it as a birthday gift and its outstanding. A must have for baseball fans. Totally worth the scratch and stuff you can enjoy when the kiddies get older.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:43 am

Saw some hype on the "10th inning" installment airing tonight. It looks like a bunch of Chowd Choads circle jerking, and Burns is right among them as a Chowd himself. I think I'll pass. the sports universe for me is not defined by Yankees - Red Sox.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:02 pm

jb wrote:Saw some hype on the "10th inning" installment airing tonight. It looks like a bunch of Chowd Choads circle jerking, and Burns is right among them as a Chowd himself. I think I'll pass. the sports universe for me is not defined by Yankees - Red Sox.


no love for the 1995 indians in this? really?

not to sound like a complete sports honk, but out of all the MLB teams coming out of the 1994 Strike, they were amongst the only fanbase to come out and just fully support and love their team. Plus the team was just incredible, that lineup has to be amongst the all-time best.

Am I looking to narrow in this though?
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:41 pm

Triple-S wrote:
jb wrote:Saw some hype on the "10th inning" installment airing tonight. It looks like a bunch of Chowd Choads circle jerking, and Burns is right among them as a Chowd himself. I think I'll pass. the sports universe for me is not defined by Yankees - Red Sox.


no love for the 1995 indians in this? really?

not to sound like a complete sports honk, but out of all the MLB teams coming out of the 1994 Strike, they were amongst the only fanbase to come out and just fully support and love their team. Plus the team was just incredible, that lineup has to be amongst the all-time best.

Am I looking to narrow in this though?



We were not relavant. Sosa and McGuire saved baseball after the strike when th whole entire lague fanbase was apathetic from the strike until 98. Get it right.


I don't know the whole shows composition. Only what I saw in preview w/ a Burns interview.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:55 pm

Saw burns on Colbert Report. Sounds like he's going to spend most of the time on steroids and the lock out. I'm sure there will be sox/yanks stuff, they did a lot to shape the game recently, but there sounds like there is plenty of other stuff.


And he says there will be an 11th inning starting with Galaraga's blown perfect game. Jim Joyce can't catch a break.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:19 pm

Olbermann is actually do quite well with this, sounds like he knows exactly what he's talking about. Actually gave a pretty good analysis on Barroid as a player.

In a perfect world he'd simply be anchoring a "Baseball Tonight" like show and just shrug off reading dailykos talking points. I don't mean that as a slight what-so-ever, just feel he's in the wrong biz.
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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:23 pm

Albert Belle!

They're discussing the bat switching story done by Jason Grimsley.
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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Just excellent. The strike, how it effected the fans, the Braves' amazing pitching, Yankee's return to glory, Cal Ripken, what new ballparks did for the game, the rise of latin players, the 1998 HR chase. Fantastic.

Part 2 tomorrow.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:56 am

The first installment bored the piss out of me when it came out in 1994, and I have a lot less tolerance for liberal-weenie bloviating Red Sox fans now than I did then. Pass.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:01 am

C'mon Herm, surely as a history buff you can appreciate correlations between American societal changes and their impact on baseball. And vice versa.

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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:07 am

they spent like a...a 30 secound montage on mentioning the '95 tribe.

Which was disapointing as all hell, so many good stories and memories from that team and you just show them as the team that the Braves beat in the World Series?

The funny thing is, there could have been the perfect segway from the post 1994 strike reaction to go a bit more in depth with that team. All you simply had to was go "...every team in the league had decreased in attendance from the year before, every team...but one..", and then cue to "Cleveland Rocks" by Ian Hunter.

I'm not saying it wasn't well done, quite the opposite. Was just disappointed as to how the '95 Tribe were seemingly shrugged off.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:03 am

Triple-S wrote:they spent like a...a 30 secound montage on mentioning the '95 tribe.


I was disappointed in that as well, but you have to take the Homer Glasses off and look at the entire project. In terms of baseball from 1992 to 1998, the 1995 Tribe was about 30 seconds. Atlanta's 13 straight division titles and 3 HOF pitchers and the Yankees' suspension of The Boss and retention of players to jump start their title runs were bigger stories.

I like how they are showing the steroid stuff, especially Barry Bonds. I'm sure tonight's episode will have plenty of Massholes, but it was a big story.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:18 am

The 1995 Indians didn't win the World Series. If they had they'd be remembered as one of the 10-15 most dominant teams in baseball history. But they didn't. So it's tough to complain about them getting short shrift in a documentary. (I would like to see Doris Kearns Goodwin's take on the Tribe beating the shit out of Boston in the '95 ALDS.)

I'd be more pissed if I was a White Sox fan. From what I understand their 2005 title run got token attention at most. That club went 88 years without winning a World Series- longer than the Red Sox. I know it's easy to say, "Nobody outside the South Side of Chicago cares about the White Sox" and that may be true, but that has nothing to do with the historical significance of the event.

I also don't give a shit about the steroid scandal. I just don't. I really don't think it's all that important, honestly. To me the growing economic disparities of the game are BY FAR more compelling and more relevant than steroids.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:10 am

hermanfontenot wrote: To me the growing economic disparities of the game are BY FAR more compelling and more relevant than steroids.


He touched on this last night, in both the CBA talks and the Yankee's payroll. Hoping for more tonight.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:30 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
Triple-S wrote:they spent like a...a 30 secound montage on mentioning the '95 tribe.


I was disappointed in that as well, but you have to take the Homer Glasses off and look at the entire project. In terms of baseball from 1992 to 1998, the 1995 Tribe was about 30 seconds. Atlanta's 13 straight division titles and 3 HOF pitchers and the Yankees' suspension of The Boss and retention of players to jump start their title runs were bigger stories.

I like how they are showing the steroid stuff, especially Barry Bonds. I'm sure tonight's episode will have plenty of Massholes, but it was a big story.


I didn't disagree with the point about Braves and Yanks as both dominated the league. I just think that overall the story about the Indians reaching the World Series after years of futility would have warranted a longer mention.

Also, couldn't believe how close baseball came to a salary cap after the 1994 season. In retrospect I really wish they would have fielded replacement players at the time and forced such a thing. Could you imagine how the Indians would have looked under such a system?
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:15 pm

Bottom of the 10th was ok. Good job on the steroids, ok job on 9-11, too much Yanks/ Sox stuff (although they were a huge part of the early 2000's). Nothing really on the financial structure. Overall, pretty good.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby aclayman » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:04 am

Kinda strange how Burns' style has FAR less impact when he's dealing in history that we all already know. 10th inning came across more like a by-the-numbers roundup of "The Past Decade In East Coast Baseball"-- no different than anything ESPN does with any of its Year In Review shows. Usually, Burns seems to relish focusing on the common man in his films, dredging up some obscure stories to give life to the well known historical facts. I suppose the Grimsley-Belle story might qualify. But surprisingly, I learned basically nothing new from the entire 3 hours or whatever it was. It was more of a series of reminders. "Oh yeah, Schilling's sock."
As for the '95 Indians, it's sad, but the amount of time spent on them didn't shock me at all. And I wouldn't even criticize Burns for it. The suffering of fans in Cleveland (or Kansas City or Milwaukee or etc etc) and the rare triumphs of those teams is forgotten mighty fast. Scott Brocious has a legacy while Omar Vizquel will likely never get his Hall of Fame votes That's how it goes.
It did make me wonder a bit just how many amazing stories Burns skipped over in the Civil War, too. No such thing as a complete history.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:16 am

aclayman wrote:Kinda strange how Burns' style has FAR less impact when he's dealing in history that we all already know. 10th inning came across more like a by-the-numbers roundup of "The Past Decade In East Coast Baseball"-- no different than anything ESPN does with any of its Year In Review shows. Usually, Burns seems to relish focusing on the common man in his films, dredging up some obscure stories to give life to the well known historical facts. I suppose the Grimsley-Belle story might qualify. But surprisingly, I learned basically nothing new from the entire 3 hours or whatever it was. It was more of a series of reminders. "Oh yeah, Schilling's sock."
As for the '95 Indians, it's sad, but the amount of time spent on them didn't shock me at all. And I wouldn't even criticize Burns for it. The suffering of fans in Cleveland (or Kansas City or Milwaukee or etc etc) and the rare triumphs of those teams is forgotten mighty fast. Scott Brocious has a legacy while Omar Vizquel will likely never get his Hall of Fame votes That's how it goes.
It did make me wonder a bit just how many amazing stories Burns skipped over in the Civil War, too. No such thing as a complete history.
Don't want tot turn this into one of "those" debates, but Omar Vizquel not likely to get his HOF votes?
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:35 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Nothing really on the financial structure.


No surprise. That would take away from the whole "Red Sox are all that is pure and good in baseball" narrative. I think Bill Simmons is the only national Chowd honk that will admit his team is playing with loaded dice.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:26 am

hermanfontenot wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:Nothing really on the financial structure.


No surprise. That would take away from the whole "Red Sox are all that is pure and good in baseball" narrative. I think Bill Simmons is the only national Chowd honk that will admit his team is playing with loaded dice.



Exactly.

Not sure where the surprise comes from SSS.

And given sox and ex=sox domination of the mitchell report, that is glossed as well.
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Re: Ken Burns's Baseball

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:29 am

Erie Warrior wrote:C'mon Herm, surely as a history buff you can appreciate correlations between American societal changes and their impact on baseball. And vice versa.

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Feh, took him nmearly 4 hours. ;-)

Seriously, Jesse, the old footage alone pre 1960's made the original worth it. Read the stories, but to actually see the moving footage was crazy sweet.
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