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a possible trade down scenario...

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a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby yogi » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:12 pm

Listening to WFAN (NYC) and the Mike Francesa show.

He was talking about the Giants and the situation with Burris came up and the likelyhood of him ever re-joining the team.

If he doesnt, the Giants could well be searching high and low for his replacement. That might be a trade with Bungles for Hosyourmomma but choices are limited for a top of the line WR.

Crabtree would be an ideal catch for the Jints and he could be available at #5 when we pick. The G-men have picks #14 and #28 this year.

Our 5 pick = 1700 points

Pick 14 & 28 = 1100 + 660 = 1760 points.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Mathematics work, soooooo....

Are we interested?

Of course a side topic may be that the Giants could be a trade partner for BE and we use #5 for Crabtree ourselves and take best DL/LB at #14 or #28 (what we could get for BE).
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Hydra Melee » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:22 pm

I could see that first scenario happening. I will be absolutely flabbergasted (but necessarily disappointed) if it does, but it makes some degree of sense.

9 spots is a fairly significant trade down when you're that high in the draft, though.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby yogi » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:25 pm

Let me add that Francesa was actually pondering the Giants having enough ammo with the 2 picks to move up in the draft to get Crabtree. He actually said they would need to move "up to 5 or so" to land him.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:35 pm

In a second I would do that. I like having top 5 picks for the potential the player possess, but after PS last offseason it would provide some cap relief not to take that pick. There are good players to be had at 14 and 28 and then 34. That might allow us to trade one of those to get additional 2nd or 3rds to make up for PS. People are alot more willing to deal after the top 10 and especially in the 2nd round

Potential problems of this are: Crabtree would have to fall past Seattle which may not happen. NYG would have to be conviced Crabtree would go shortly after where we pick. Also Seattle could make this deal before we do. NYG could call our bluff that we wouldnt take him and get a better deal from the Bungles behind us. There is alot that has to take place to make it work out, but it would be nice.

Edit: 36 not 34
Last edited by Ziner on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby googleeph2 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:57 pm

Ziner wrote: NYG could call our bluff that we wouldnt take him and get a better deal from the Bungles behind us.



Yeah, another team would need to be involved to create the urgency.

At least we understand that teams trade up for particular players (like Crabtree, for instance) and not just for draft slots.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Doc » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:58 pm

I do that yesterday. If we ended up with someone like a Bart Scott/Terrell Suggs in FA, we could do a lot of fun things in the draft. If we went by GBN's rankings, we could do something like Harvin, Moreno, or Maualuga at 14. If you take offense, you take a LB and a CB at 28 and 37 (whatever the 2nd rounder is). If you take Maualuga, you get a CB and the next best BPA on the board with those next 2 picks.

I don't want to be penciled in to taking a need at 5. Frankly, I'm not real enamored with the top talent in this draft. We're not going QB, and we're not going OL. Crabtree would be nice, but I'd rather have Harvin + #28. Harvin or Moreno would give this offense another needed dynamic. Harvin would be a nice addition to BE and K2. He and Cribbs would be dynamite together as well. Moreno, on the other hand, would give us a top flight RB to take the load off Quinn.

This actually makes sense for the Giants a bit...but Crabtree has to get past Seattle first. If this happens...I'll be stoked.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:29 pm

Agree with others....would be great, but I don't see Crabtree getting past Seattle.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:52 pm

Mmmm this makes me feel warm inside. I've been pitching this very same trade for weeks now to my Giants friends, except my version also had a 3rd/4th rounder going their way and Mathias Kiwanuka coming to the Browns. He can play LB or DE and played in a pro style 3-4 at BC.

It would allow the Giants to wash their hands of Burress, and frankly they dont really have many holes to fill as the're currently constructed. The 2008 Giants' only hole late in the season was no #1 WR due to Plax shooting himself. Not having that #1 capable of stretching the field and drawing double coverage allowed defenses to send an extra blitzer on most plays.

As for the Browns at #5, I still have yet to see to see someone who really excites me who would be worth the salary involved in picking that high. Taylor Mays had me excited for a moment or 2, but he's heading back to USC for better pay. What this draft lacks in star power it makes up for in depth. If Curry is off the board at 5, there is no other LB worthy of such a high pick. At #14 though, one of Maualuga, Everette Brown, or Maybin would be solid value. (I'm really not sold on Orakpo or Lauranitis, but both should be there as well.)

This is all predicated on Crabtree slipping by Seattle though, which doesnt seem likely. With Engram, Branch, Burleson, and the rest of the Seahawks WR core all either turning 50 next year or coming off bad injuries, it would be tough for them to pass on him. But who knows? They could decide to draft Hasselbeck's future replacement in either Sanchez or Stafford if one is available, or Walter Jones' replacement in either Andre Smith, Michael Oher, or Eugene Monroe. WR is deep this year and Brandon LaFell should be there for them in the 2nd round. ( I'd personally take him over Maclin or Harvin anyway. I'd be ecstatic if the Browns got him in the 2nd round.)

After writing all that, I've just convinced myself that the Seahawks will trade down with the Giants, allowing them to draft a franchise LT at #14 and Maclin/ Harvin at #28 and filling both their major holes.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby onlyindreams » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:01 pm

I would do that in a heart beat. We need as many picks as possible. To add some more fuel to that fire, Cincy picks right after us and could be very interested in Crabtree since they may lose one or both of their starting WRs. If a team wants Crabtree, they better get up in the top 5 because he probably wouldn't get past the Bengals.

The only problem with this is the Giants love their draft picks. They have been able to find talent up and down the draft and could easily find a WR with one of their picks. They would really have to "fall in love" with Crabtree to consider trading up for him.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby jordan kramer » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:36 pm

i fine with any scenario as long as we end up with Rey Maualuga at the end of the day
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Chief24Wahoo » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:37 pm

The way you rebuild a team in the NFL is through the draft, not through free agency. If this trade is a possibility I'd definitely do it if I were the Browns. We can still get a quality linebacker at 14 and another very solid player at 28.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby yogi » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:18 pm

I need to check further into, but it appears the 1st round choice the Giants will be getting for Shockey will be the 2010 #1, not 2009. So it appears the Giants wont have the ammo needed to come up unless they wanna trade a DE or something.

The info on the Francesa show was incorrect.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:36 pm

The Giants don't get the 14th pick unless the Saints use the franchise tag on Vilma this offseason--which they've said they won't do.

Using the tag on Vilma bumps the compensation the Saints owe the Jets to a 2nd rounder, which then bumps the compensation they'd owe the Giants for Shockey to a 1st rounder since they'd no longer have a 2nd.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:02 pm

yogi wrote:Listening to WFAN (NYC) and the Mike Francesa show.

He was talking about the Giants and the situation with Burris came up and the likelyhood of him ever re-joining the team.

If he doesnt, the Giants could well be searching high and low for his replacement. That might be a trade with Bungles for Hosyourmomma but choices are limited for a top of the line WR.

Crabtree would be an ideal catch for the Jints and he could be available at #5 when we pick. The G-men have picks #14 and #28 this year.

Our 5 pick = 1700 points

Pick 14 & 28 = 1100 + 660 = 1760 points.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Mathematics work, soooooo....

Are we interested?

Of course a side topic may be that the Giants could be a trade partner for BE and we use #5 for Crabtree ourselves and take best DL/LB at #14 or #28 (what we could get for BE).



Sign me up for that yesterday.

No brainer category AFAIC.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Crash Davis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:05 pm

This would give us three picks out of the first 36 and this is exactly the type of scenario needed to follow up the '07 draft in order to add some much needed talent to the nucleus. You take the best three talentwise and hopefully at least two are on defense.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:19 pm

I don't even bother to consider trade down scenarios because they never happen. It's so easy for everyone to say "trade down", much harder to actually do it.

You have to have a partner, and you have to have proper compensation. Teams don't want to trade into the Top 5 because of the huge salary you have to pay the guy you draft and the fact that they can probably get someone just as good later in the 1st. It's such a difficult thing to pull off that I don't even think about it as a realistic option.

If they can pull off a trade down for two 1st Round picks, then that's great. But I'm not gonna clamor for it, because even if they wanted to it most likely won't happen.

The 5th pick will be worth a lot more when they finally get the Rookie Salary Cap in place. Hopefully it will be part of the next CBA.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby rk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:35 pm

JB wrote:Sign me up for that yesterday.

No brainer category AFAIC.


Which explains why you signed up.

Better to offer Braylon, who is what Plaxico was before his was a Gint up to Michigan (the state not the school) roots, for any first round pick the Gint are willing to give up. We can throw in a 3rd or 4th if they balk for Braylon straight up but he's better than anything they're getting in the mid 20s.

No one trades up for a WR because rookie wideouts rarely contribute. But the Gints staff and Eli would probably be able to straighten out Braylon. Assuming he doesn't carry a gun.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:40 pm

rk wrote:
JB wrote:Sign me up for that yesterday.

No brainer category AFAIC.


Which explains why you signed up.

Better to offer Braylon, who is what Plaxico was before his was a Gint up to Michigan (the state not the school) roots, for any first round pick the Gint are willing to give up. We can throw in a 3rd or 4th if they balk for Braylon straight up but he's better than anything they're getting in the mid 20s.

No one trades up for a WR because rookie wideouts rarely contribute. But the Gints staff and Eli would probably be able to straighten out Braylon. Assuming he doesn't carry a gun.



And we just plug Syndric Steptoe in as the WR1?
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby rk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:42 pm

Ziner wrote:And we just plug Syndric Steptoe in as the WR1?


No reason why the Browns can't use either of those 1st round picks on a WR. We're not planning on going to the Superbowl next year.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby El Heffe » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:46 pm

So you want to trade a young WR for a first round pick and then use said first round pick on another young WR? That makes no sense.

Trading Braylon is not a smart move, this team has limited talent and should keep what it has. Trade Braylon sets your offense back. A year with Quinn, and an upgrade at the possession receiver and the offense will work better than this past years.

trades should be made for picks and then said picks used on defense. And as much as I love the idea of trading down, let's be honest it take two to tango, and not many want to do it. Especially given the insane rookie contracts.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:48 pm

El Heffe wrote:So you want to trade a young WR for a first round pick and then use said first round pick on another young WR? That makes no sense.

Trading Braylon is not a smart move, this team has limited talent and should keep what it has. Trade Braylon sets your offense back. A year with Quinn, and an upgrade at the possession receiver and the offense will work better than this past years.

trades should be made for picks and then said picks used on defense. And as much as I love the idea of trading down, let's be honest it take two to tango, and not many want to do it. Especially given the insane rookie contracts.


Thanks for saying it before I could. We have (when not an asshole) at top 10 WR. In 2007 it was undisputed he was a top 10 WR correct? So why would we trade him to take a chance on another rookie who could turn out to be more Travis Wilson than Braylon Edwards. Given the choice I take Braylon because I know what I am getting.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby rk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:55 pm

El Heffe wrote:Trade Braylon sets your offense back.


ROTFLMAO!

How do you set back an offense that set a record for not scoring touchdowns?

There is a salary cap in the NFL, Braylon is taking entirely too much of the Browns cap for the shit he produces on the field, and he is going to demand -more- next year if he has even a modicum of success. Fuck that.

If you can dump him for a first round pick then you do it. I don't give a shit if you use that first on a WR, a LB, a RB, a CB, a RT, a DE, or any other position of need for the Browns (can we draft a goalie?) but someone asked what we'd do a WR. I don't really give a shit who we draft (and especially don't give a shit WHERE we draft them) as long as there are good players who will fit the systems being used being drafted.'

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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby rk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:00 pm

Ziner wrote:Thanks for saying it before I could. We have (when not an asshole) at top 10 WR. In 2007 it was undisputed he was a top 10 WR correct?


And in 2008 he became an undisputed retard.

He catches deep balls well but doesn't do enough underneath and doesn't seem to be willing to go over the middle. When he does go over the middle he seems to have a mental block that keeps him from focusing on the ball and instead does stupid shit like switching the ball to an off hand to catch himself with the other hand while dropping the ball. Even in '07 he had lapses where he did the same thing. Teams figured him out and can limit him.

One of the few teams that couldn't happen to have been the team that is being discussed in this thread.

With DA's '07 bombtastic offense gone so too is Braylon's main resource for getting yardage/touchdowns. So trade him while his value is high, get him off our books, and get someone more capable of fitting in with your unearned but 'franchise' QB anyway.

Oh and DA was also a top 10 QB in '07. What have you done for me lately?

So why would we trade him to take a chance on another rookie who could turn out to be more Travis Wilson than Braylon Edwards. Given the choice I take Braylon because I know what I am getting.


You're getting a big receiver with bad hands and a case of the yips. I'll take my chances with the next guy.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:06 pm

rk wrote: So trade him while his value is high, get him off our books,


So someone who you call an undisputed retard in 2008 has a current value that is high? If you trade him now you are selling low. Braylon had a bad year, but so did the entire offense. It wasnt all Braylons fault no matter how much you hate him. You dont trade a pro-bowl WR to take a chance with a rookie. You keep Braylon and shore up your team in other areas.

This is all moot anyways, he isnt going anywhere. Not a chance
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby El Heffe » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:11 pm

I'm willing to cut Braylon some slack for this year. I know he had a ton of drops, but there was no running game, he was the only skilled reciever on the field for most plays drawing double coverage, and he had the some horrific QB play for most of the year.

I'd rather trade Winslow, because a TE can be replaced a lot easier than a WR. But we need to move from this topic, becuase there's a whole other thread about trading Braylon, and even there the arguments for it make no sense.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:17 pm

Ziner wrote:
rk wrote: So trade him while his value is high, get him off our books,


So someone who you call an undisputed retard in 2008 has a current value that is high? If you trade him now you are selling low. Braylon had a bad year, but so did the entire offense. It wasnt all Braylons fault no matter how much you hate him. You dont trade a pro-bowl WR to take a chance with a rookie. You keep Braylon and shore up your team in other areas.

This is all moot anyways, he isnt going anywhere. Not a chance


Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.

Also agree on the "why are we bothering to argue this" point. He's going to be with the Browns next year. I have a better chance of throwing a truck into orbit than Braylon has of being traded.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby rk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:47 pm

Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:58 pm

rk wrote:
Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.


All right. You're the GM of another team. And the Browns call you up and say "Hey, you can have Braylon Edwards for your 1st Round pick".

You making that trade?

We have to hope/assume he'll be better because he did have a decent 2007. But other teams KNOW that his stock is down, and they aren't stupid. Even if they think that Braylon can recover and play like a 1st Rounder doesn't mean that they'll PAY with a 1st Rounder.

If you can't get better than a 4th Round pick for Randy Moss when his stock is down, what do you think teams are going to be willing to part with for Braylon?

Especially when his contract is up after this year. Who the hell trades a 1st Round pick for a guy who will require a brand new huge contract or else he could be gone next year?

This is the kind of logic that drives me nuts. "I don't want the guy, but I'm sure that some other team is run by people so stupid that they'll give us XYZ for our trash, because that would be cool."

If you think that the Browns can actually get a 1st Round pick in return for Braylon, then you go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby buckeye319 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Hiko wrote:
rk wrote:
Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.


All right. You're the GM of another team. And the Browns call you up and say "Hey, you can have Braylon Edwards for your 1st Round pick".

You making that trade?

We have to hope/assume he'll be better because he did have a decent 2007. But other teams KNOW that his stock is down, and they aren't stupid. Even if they think that Braylon can recover and play like a 1st Rounder doesn't mean that they'll PAY with a 1st Rounder.

If you can't get better than a 4th Round pick for Randy Moss when his stock is down, what do you think teams are going to be willing to part with for Braylon?

Especially when his contract is up after this year. Who the hell trades a 1st Round pick for a guy who will require a brand new huge contract or else he could be gone next year?

This is the kind of logic that drives me nuts. "I don't want the guy, but I'm sure that some other team is run by people so stupid that they'll give us XYZ for our trash, because that would be cool."

If you think that the Browns can actually get a 1st Round pick in return for Braylon, then you go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.


But if his contract is up after next season, wouldn't you want to get something in return for him instead of letting him walk? This is real question, not trying to be a smart ass.

I just feel like really well run organizations know when to hold on to a guy like Braylon, and when to sell.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:20 pm

buckeye319 wrote:
Hiko wrote:
rk wrote:
Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.


All right. You're the GM of another team. And the Browns call you up and say "Hey, you can have Braylon Edwards for your 1st Round pick".

You making that trade?

We have to hope/assume he'll be better because he did have a decent 2007. But other teams KNOW that his stock is down, and they aren't stupid. Even if they think that Braylon can recover and play like a 1st Rounder doesn't mean that they'll PAY with a 1st Rounder.

If you can't get better than a 4th Round pick for Randy Moss when his stock is down, what do you think teams are going to be willing to part with for Braylon?

Especially when his contract is up after this year. Who the hell trades a 1st Round pick for a guy who will require a brand new huge contract or else he could be gone next year?

This is the kind of logic that drives me nuts. "I don't want the guy, but I'm sure that some other team is run by people so stupid that they'll give us XYZ for our trash, because that would be cool."

If you think that the Browns can actually get a 1st Round pick in return for Braylon, then you go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.


But if his contract is up after next season, wouldn't you want to get something in return for him instead of letting him walk? This is real question, not trying to be a smart ass.

I just feel like really well run organizations know when to hold on to a guy like Braylon, and when to sell.


That is the single best reason for trading him.

But assume you get a 3rd Round pick for him. You have to turn around and use that pick on a WR to fill the hole you just created. Who knows how that 3rd Round pick will play? WR is a real dicey position to fill through the draft. And you basically just swapped Braylon for a rookie. There is no gain to be had in the trade.

You keep him this year, hope he plays his ass off because it's a contract year. If he plays well, you start negotiating long-term contract about midseason. If he doesn't agree to terms, you can always franchise him.

If he has the dropsies again, then you part ways.

If he does get his head out of his ass, he's much more valuable to the team than some 3rd Round rookie. I think it's worth said 3rd Round rookie to find out.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby buckeye319 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:55 pm

Hiko wrote:
buckeye319 wrote:
Hiko wrote:
rk wrote:
Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.


All right. You're the GM of another team. And the Browns call you up and say "Hey, you can have Braylon Edwards for your 1st Round pick".

You making that trade?

We have to hope/assume he'll be better because he did have a decent 2007. But other teams KNOW that his stock is down, and they aren't stupid. Even if they think that Braylon can recover and play like a 1st Rounder doesn't mean that they'll PAY with a 1st Rounder.

If you can't get better than a 4th Round pick for Randy Moss when his stock is down, what do you think teams are going to be willing to part with for Braylon?

Especially when his contract is up after this year. Who the hell trades a 1st Round pick for a guy who will require a brand new huge contract or else he could be gone next year?

This is the kind of logic that drives me nuts. "I don't want the guy, but I'm sure that some other team is run by people so stupid that they'll give us XYZ for our trash, because that would be cool."

If you think that the Browns can actually get a 1st Round pick in return for Braylon, then you go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.


But if his contract is up after next season, wouldn't you want to get something in return for him instead of letting him walk? This is real question, not trying to be a smart ass.

I just feel like really well run organizations know when to hold on to a guy like Braylon, and when to sell.


That is the single best reason for trading him.

But assume you get a 3rd Round pick for him. You have to turn around and use that pick on a WR to fill the hole you just created. Who knows how that 3rd Round pick will play? WR is a real dicey position to fill through the draft. And you basically just swapped Braylon for a rookie. There is no gain to be had in the trade.

You keep him this year, hope he plays his ass off because it's a contract year. If he plays well, you start negotiating long-term contract about midseason. If he doesn't agree to terms, you can always franchise him.

If he has the dropsies again, then you part ways.

If he does get his head out of his ass, he's much more valuable to the team than some 3rd Round rookie. I think it's worth said 3rd Round rookie to find out.


OK, I can buy that logic. I guess the problem is, as its been pointed out many times in this thread, the Browns have NO other weapons at WR. If you could trade him and not be forced to draft a WR with that pick (and instead targeting say a defensive player) then you might think about dealing him. Otherwise, it doesn't make that much sense.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:01 pm

No BE means Stallworthless is your #1. That scares me. Only way I trade BE is if we got a pick that could land us Crabtree or Maclin, thats never going to happen.

We could trade him for a 5th round pick and draft Robiske or Hartline. Does that excite anyone?.....I didn't think so.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:05 pm

buckeye319 wrote:
Hiko wrote:
buckeye319 wrote:
Hiko wrote:
rk wrote:
Hiko wrote:Agree. Braylon's value is at an all time low. He had a terrible year, he's been exposed as a prima donna (shocker), and 2009 is the last year on his contract. There's not a GM in the universe stupid enough to trade a 1st Round pick for him.


I like that people are doing the 'on one hand I think he'll be better' and then dropping the 'no GM would be stupid enough to trade a late first round pick even if they believed he'll be better'.

It's a wonderful little logic loop that can only happen when fans discuss their own team's players.

The reality is that there are plenty of NFL people who feel that Braylon can return to '07 with a QB with a style similar to DA's (ie. Eli) and in an environment where he would see more time on camera and a fresh start. Also he is in his contract year and appears to value money so a GM can believe that it will act more as an incentive to improve than added pressure.

But in Cleveland it really doesn't matter since he will be in a contract year, the Browns can't get to the Superbowl without getting a lot more talent, and if he does return to his 2007 form there's no guarantee that once he's paid he won't revert back to 2008.

The Browns are in a position where they can leverage a talented but troubled player who may not work with the QB you've got for a talented but young player who you can hand pick with the idea that they can work in the system you've got.

And anyone who honestly believes that our new GM and new coach will look at game film from 2008 and think, "There's no way I'm trading THAT guy!', you've obviously spent too much time drinking from the Frankenbong.


All right. You're the GM of another team. And the Browns call you up and say "Hey, you can have Braylon Edwards for your 1st Round pick".

You making that trade?

We have to hope/assume he'll be better because he did have a decent 2007. But other teams KNOW that his stock is down, and they aren't stupid. Even if they think that Braylon can recover and play like a 1st Rounder doesn't mean that they'll PAY with a 1st Rounder.

If you can't get better than a 4th Round pick for Randy Moss when his stock is down, what do you think teams are going to be willing to part with for Braylon?

Especially when his contract is up after this year. Who the hell trades a 1st Round pick for a guy who will require a brand new huge contract or else he could be gone next year?

This is the kind of logic that drives me nuts. "I don't want the guy, but I'm sure that some other team is run by people so stupid that they'll give us XYZ for our trash, because that would be cool."

If you think that the Browns can actually get a 1st Round pick in return for Braylon, then you go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.


But if his contract is up after next season, wouldn't you want to get something in return for him instead of letting him walk? This is real question, not trying to be a smart ass.

I just feel like really well run organizations know when to hold on to a guy like Braylon, and when to sell.


That is the single best reason for trading him.

But assume you get a 3rd Round pick for him. You have to turn around and use that pick on a WR to fill the hole you just created. Who knows how that 3rd Round pick will play? WR is a real dicey position to fill through the draft. And you basically just swapped Braylon for a rookie. There is no gain to be had in the trade.

You keep him this year, hope he plays his ass off because it's a contract year. If he plays well, you start negotiating long-term contract about midseason. If he doesn't agree to terms, you can always franchise him.

If he has the dropsies again, then you part ways.

If he does get his head out of his ass, he's much more valuable to the team than some 3rd Round rookie. I think it's worth said 3rd Round rookie to find out.


OK, I can buy that logic. I guess the problem is, as its been pointed out many times in this thread, the Browns have NO other weapons at WR. If you could trade him and not be forced to draft a WR with that pick (and instead targeting say a defensive player) then you might think about dealing him. Otherwise, it doesn't make that much sense.


Definitely. That's why I feel that Winslow is tradeable. The Browns have enough depth at TE to be able to make up for the loss.

Braylon, though, isn't. We need another WR to go with BE, not to get rid of the one legit WR we have.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:06 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:No BE means Stallworthless is your #1. That scares me. Only way I trade BE is if we got a pick that could land us Crabtree or Maclin, thats never going to happen.

We could trade him for a 5th round pick and draft Robiske or Hartline. Does that excite anyone?.....I didn't think so.


It does excite me. But not in a good way.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:43 pm

let me make this as crystal clear as possible. i would take a LB at #5. i would then trade Braylon to a team like the Bears or Buccaneers, who both need receivers, at 18 or 19. i would then pick Percy Harvin. he is a playmaker. i would then pick up another receiver on day 2 of the draft. if we need we can look at some free agent receivers.

go ahead crucify me for wanting Edwards out, but he's gonna leave after next year anyways and we will get nothing out of him but a headache and a lot of footballs on the ground.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:18 pm

jordan kramer wrote:let me make this as crystal clear as possible. i would take a LB at #5. i would then trade Braylon to a team like the Bears or Buccaneers, who both need receivers, at 18 or 19. i would then pick Percy Harvin. he is a playmaker. i would then pick up another receiver on day 2 of the draft. if we need we can look at some free agent receivers.

go ahead crucify me for wanting Edwards out, but he's gonna leave after next year anyways and we will get nothing out of him but a headache and a lot of footballs on the ground.


There is no need to crucify you, but you need to understand this: NO ONE IS GOING TO TRADE A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR BRAYLON EDWARDS.

If they would, I might consider it. But it ain't gonna happen.

You see this crazy ass shit every year. "Why don't we trade Andra Davis for a 2nd Round pick?" Easy. No one is going to give you that.

Teams are NOT lining up outside of Berea just hoping that the Browns are benevolent enough to trade BE away.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Braylon is no Randy Moss. And you have to remember what Randy Moss was traded for. Wide Receivers DON'T GET TRADED FOR 1ST ROUND PICKS.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:26 pm

Hiko wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:let me make this as crystal clear as possible. i would take a LB at #5. i would then trade Braylon to a team like the Bears or Buccaneers, who both need receivers, at 18 or 19. i would then pick Percy Harvin. he is a playmaker. i would then pick up another receiver on day 2 of the draft. if we need we can look at some free agent receivers.

go ahead crucify me for wanting Edwards out, but he's gonna leave after next year anyways and we will get nothing out of him but a headache and a lot of footballs on the ground.


There is no need to crucify you, but you need to understand this: NO ONE IS GOING TO TRADE A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR BRAYLON EDWARDS.

If they would, I might consider it. But it ain't gonna happen.

You see this crazy ass shit every year. "Why don't we trade Andra Davis for a 2nd Round pick?" Easy. No one is going to give you that.

Teams are NOT lining up outside of Berea just hoping that the Browns are benevolent enough to trade BE away.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Braylon is no Randy Moss. And you have to remember what Randy Moss was traded for. Wide Receivers DON'T GET TRADED FOR 1ST ROUND PICKS.


Well, what if we say pretty please. with sugar on top?
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:30 pm

jordan kramer wrote:let me make this as crystal clear as possible. i would take a LB at #5. i would then trade Braylon to a team like the Bears or Buccaneers, who both need receivers, at 18 or 19. i would then pick Percy Harvin. he is a playmaker. i would then pick up another receiver on day 2 of the draft. if we need we can look at some free agent receivers.

go ahead crucify me for wanting Edwards out, but he's gonna leave after next year anyways and we will get nothing out of him but a headache and a lot of footballs on the ground.


I live in Chicago and they were recently discussing WR position on the ESPN affiliate. People were posed the question of whether they would give up their 1st for Boldin. Immediately, they all said they needed that pick for a OL, if they Bears gave up their 1st people would revolt.

The Bucs sure as hell arent going to give up their 1st because Antonio Bryant was playing lights out at the end of the year.... yeah that same Antonio Bryant we once had. If you are trading Braylon you are getting a 3rd or 4th maybe. So can we just drop it. I'd like to get the Lions 1st for Derek Anderson, but it aint happening. I'd rather hear about how we need to draft Beanie Wells then trades we should make in the first round. There is a 99.99% chance we are picking at 5 and 36... thats it for the first day.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:59 pm

Pup wrote:
Hiko wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:let me make this as crystal clear as possible. i would take a LB at #5. i would then trade Braylon to a team like the Bears or Buccaneers, who both need receivers, at 18 or 19. i would then pick Percy Harvin. he is a playmaker. i would then pick up another receiver on day 2 of the draft. if we need we can look at some free agent receivers.

go ahead crucify me for wanting Edwards out, but he's gonna leave after next year anyways and we will get nothing out of him but a headache and a lot of footballs on the ground.


There is no need to crucify you, but you need to understand this: NO ONE IS GOING TO TRADE A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR BRAYLON EDWARDS.

If they would, I might consider it. But it ain't gonna happen.

You see this crazy ass shit every year. "Why don't we trade Andra Davis for a 2nd Round pick?" Easy. No one is going to give you that.

Teams are NOT lining up outside of Berea just hoping that the Browns are benevolent enough to trade BE away.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Braylon is no Randy Moss. And you have to remember what Randy Moss was traded for. Wide Receivers DON'T GET TRADED FOR 1ST ROUND PICKS.


Well, what if we say pretty please. with sugar on top?


Well, you have a point there. That might work. Along with the sugar, I'll even throw in a functional desk chair and a slightly used DVD of the 2nd season of Friends.

Just don't tell my girlfriend.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Hydra Melee » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:00 am

Just to point out, Minnesota Randy Moss was traded for a top 10 pick (#7 I think) and Napoleon Harris.

To replace Randy, the Vikings used that pick on my homeboy Troy Williamson.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:52 am

Hydra Melee wrote:Just to point out, Minnesota Randy Moss was traded for a top 10 pick (#7 I think) and Napoleon Harris.

To replace Randy, the Vikings used that pick on my homeboy Troy Williamson.


He was also one of the greatest receivers in the NFL at the time.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby DrPoove » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:49 am

Pup wrote:
Hydra Melee wrote:Just to point out, Minnesota Randy Moss was traded for a top 10 pick (#7 I think) and Napoleon Harris.

To replace Randy, the Vikings used that pick on my homeboy Troy Williamson.


He was also one of the greatest receivers in the NFL at the time.

And was traded to the Al Davis led Raiders. One of the few organization more a$$ backwards than the Browns.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby yogi » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:01 am

First of all let me say Im in the camp of not trading BE and watching him have a rebound 2009 year and make the Pro Bowl. Let it be for us.

However,

If we did entertain offers, the Giants would absolutely be interested in Trading their 1st round, #28 or so to the Browns for him.

Why? Because BE could come into the Giants situation and contribute immediately and fill the role of Plax better than anyone (save possibly Crabtree and maybe Bolden) could.

The Giants have all the pieces in place EXCEPT a legit tall #1 reciever> BE fits the bill.

Yes he had a crappy 2008. Plax had crappy years too. Oh and it doenst hurt BE too much that his very best games of the year were on National TV and center stage. In NY, he'll have center stage.

No, I disagree Hiko, the Giants are definately players for BE services if the Browns decide to part ways with him.

BTW, one other thought... Mangini had to defense BE twice. I wonder what BE's stats were for thse games? (Ill look up and post)

It might give a clue if EM thinks BE is a keeper.

EDIT: BE's stats

12/09/07 Browns 24 Jets 18

3 catches for 63 yards, 21.0 ypc, 1 TD LG 45 yards.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores10 ... 765775.htm

10/29/06 Browns 20 Jets 13

2 catches for 21 yards, 10.5 ypc, 0 TD, 20 long

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores106/106302/NFL702243.htm
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Guest » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:44 am

Hydra Melee wrote:Just to point out, Minnesota Randy Moss was traded for a top 10 pick (#7 I think) and Napoleon Harris.

To replace Randy, the Vikings used that pick on my homeboy Troy Williamson.


I was referring to when the Raiders traded him to New England, where his asking price was considerably less.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:17 am

yogi wrote:First of all let me say Im in the camp of not trading BE and watching him have a rebound 2009 year and make the Pro Bowl. Let it be for us.

However,

If we did entertain offers, the Giants would absolutely be interested in Trading their 1st round, #28 or so to the Browns for him.

Why? Because BE could come into the Giants situation and contribute immediately and fill the role of Plax better than anyone (save possibly Crabtree and maybe Bolden) could.

The Giants have all the pieces in place EXCEPT a legit tall #1 reciever> BE fits the bill.

Yes he had a crappy 2008. Plax had crappy years too. Oh and it doenst hurt BE too much that his very best games of the year were on National TV and center stage. In NY, he'll have center stage.

No, I disagree Hiko, the Giants are definately players for BE services if the Browns decide to part ways with him.

BTW, one other thought... Mangini had to defense BE twice. I wonder what BE's stats were for thse games? (Ill look up and post)

It might give a clue if EM thinks BE is a keeper.

EDIT: BE's stats

12/09/07 Browns 24 Jets 18

3 catches for 63 yards, 21.0 ypc, 1 TD LG 45 yards.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores10 ... 765775.htm

10/29/06 Browns 20 Jets 13

2 catches for 21 yards, 10.5 ypc, 0 TD, 20 long

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores106/106302/NFL702243.htm


IF we were to trade him which we wont, I want more than 28. I want 28 and their 2nd and maybe another pick. The only way I advocate trading him is if we get enough picks to replace Braylon with some semblance of a WR (or we sign a guy like Housh) AND we improve 1 or 2 other positions drastically. Realistically NYG arent giving us 28 and the 2nd rounder they got from the Saints for Shockey. No trading Braylon for less than a trade off of improving 3 positions
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby OrangeElf » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:21 pm

Ziner wrote:
yogi wrote:First of all let me say Im in the camp of not trading BE and watching him have a rebound 2009 year and make the Pro Bowl. Let it be for us.

However,

If we did entertain offers, the Giants would absolutely be interested in Trading their 1st round, #28 or so to the Browns for him.

Why? Because BE could come into the Giants situation and contribute immediately and fill the role of Plax better than anyone (save possibly Crabtree and maybe Bolden) could.

The Giants have all the pieces in place EXCEPT a legit tall #1 reciever> BE fits the bill.

Yes he had a crappy 2008. Plax had crappy years too. Oh and it doenst hurt BE too much that his very best games of the year were on National TV and center stage. In NY, he'll have center stage.

No, I disagree Hiko, the Giants are definately players for BE services if the Browns decide to part ways with him.

BTW, one other thought... Mangini had to defense BE twice. I wonder what BE's stats were for thse games? (Ill look up and post)

It might give a clue if EM thinks BE is a keeper.

EDIT: BE's stats

12/09/07 Browns 24 Jets 18

3 catches for 63 yards, 21.0 ypc, 1 TD LG 45 yards.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores10 ... 765775.htm

10/29/06 Browns 20 Jets 13

2 catches for 21 yards, 10.5 ypc, 0 TD, 20 long

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores106/106302/NFL702243.htm


IF we were to trade him which we wont, I want more than 28. I want 28 and their 2nd and maybe another pick. The only way I advocate trading him is if we get enough picks to replace Braylon with some semblance of a WR (or we sign a guy like Housh) AND we improve 1 or 2 other positions drastically. Realistically NYG arent giving us 28 and the 2nd rounder they got from the Saints for Shockey. No trading Braylon for less than a trade off of improving 3 positions


I agree. Trading down 9 spots ought to get you more than the 28th pick. This teams needs multiple high round draft picks and one can only hope Crabtree is still on the board at #5 so we can have multiple offers for him.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:23 pm

For the record Seattle traded their 1st rounder a few years ago to New England for Deon Branch.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:26 pm

Nicastro13 wrote:For the record Seattle traded their 1st rounder a few years ago to New England for Deon Branch.


Just because they did it, it doesnt make it smart. How did that turn out for them? That is what you get for falling in love with players from a SB team, especially the MVP

Last time I checked Braylon hasnt played in a playoff game yet
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:55 pm

it was an absolute steal for New England, I was just saying that it happened my man easy down. I don't want to trade Braylon, I bought his Authentic two years ago, for the money I spent on it I hope he retires a Brownie.
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Re: a possible trade down scenario...

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:58 pm

Nicastro13 wrote:it was an absolute steal for New England, I was just saying that it happened my man easy down. I don't want to trade Braylon, I bought his Authentic two years ago, for the money I spent on it I hope he retires a Brownie.


Im easy, I wasnt saying it in a hostile tone, Dont get me wrong if someone wants to blow us away for Braylon they can have him. But for a first rounder they can kiss my ass... we would need a 1st just to replace him so I dont know how it gets you anywhere
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