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You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

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You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Chris » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:16 pm

But I have a newfound respect for this guy. Anybody catch him on All Bets Are Off yesterday? What a great hour or so it was, he answered questions from the fans and talked to Bruce (without blowing a gasket, that in and of itself is a feat worthy of recognition). But this guy really, really gets it. He understands Cleveland, he understands how much we want a championship and has the mentality of "you can boo if you want; I tell my players if they don't want to be booed, play harder. You're happy when they cheer you for doing good things, so what do you expect?" I love this. He talked about Cleveland being blue collar, the economic times and how he knows it's tough for people to come to games when the product isn't up to par and how he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now). Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely. Again, say what you want about his managing skills (personally, while he isn't the greatest manager, I think he is solid) but at the very least I think the guy deserves our respect.

I mean, don't you wish the Browns had this philosophy? It was just enlightening to hear the coach of one of our teams who has taken a lot of heat sit there and take questions from us fans and tell us how much he respects us and has his guys play hard for us. That's how it should be IMO.

I kind of just wanted to share that, if anyone missed it.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:07 pm

Anyone know if it's archived anywhere on STO website? I'd like to watch it if it's there.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:09 pm

I'm too stunned to speak. This has been up an hour and there's no venom and bile spewing responses from the usual suspects. Must be electro-therapy day?? ;-) ;) :wink: :thud:

perhaps they're each starting 3 anti-Wedge threads of their own to make sure this gets buried. :woot:
Last edited by peeker643 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:10 pm

Peeker643 wrote:This has been up an hour and there's no venom and bile spewing responses from the usual suspects.


Board access has been difficult to come by for much of the last two hours. Something's been acting up a bit.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:12 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:This has been up an hour and there's no venom and bile spewing responses from the usual suspects.


Board access has been difficult to come by for much of the last two hours. Something's been acting up a bit.


Ye of little faith. Maybe they made New Year resolutions. :partyers:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:48 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:Anyone know if it's archived anywhere on STO website? I'd like to watch it if it's there.



No sign of the video on the website, but it looks like it's being repeated at midnight.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby tribefaninsouthernoh » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Peeker643 wrote:I'm too stunned to speak. This has been up an hour and there's no venom and bile spewing responses from the usual suspects. Must be electro-therapy day?? ;-) ;) :wink: :thud:

perhaps they're each starting 3 anti-Wedge threads of their own to make sure this gets buried. :woot:


Noe 3.5 hours in................still nothing............... :sillies:

You guys get buried with snow up there today? Frozen fingers? Stuck in snowdrifts? Eyelids frozen to the point of not being able to make out the name WEDGE???
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby pup » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:48 pm

tribefaninsouthernoh wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:I'm too stunned to speak. This has been up an hour and there's no venom and bile spewing responses from the usual suspects. Must be electro-therapy day?? ;-) ;) :wink: :thud:

perhaps they're each starting 3 anti-Wedge threads of their own to make sure this gets buried. :woot:


Noe 3.5 hours in................still nothing............... :sillies:

You guys get buried with snow up there today? Frozen fingers? Stuck in snowdrifts? Eyelids frozen to the point of not being able to make out the name WEDGE???


Shit no. Everyone is still so shocked that Shapiro actually did something this winter, they don't know what to do.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:48 pm

Chris wrote:But I have a newfound respect for this guy. Anybody catch him on All Bets Are Off yesterday? What a great hour or so it was, he answered questions from the fans and talked to Bruce (without blowing a gasket, that in and of itself is a feat worthy of recognition). But this guy really, really gets it. He understands Cleveland, he understands how much we want a championship and has the mentality of "you can boo if you want; I tell my players if they don't want to be booed, play harder. You're happy when they cheer you for doing good things, so what do you expect?" I love this. He talked about Cleveland being blue collar, the economic times and how he knows it's tough for people to come to games when the product isn't up to par and how he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now). Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely. Again, say what you want about his managing skills (personally, while he isn't the greatest manager, I think he is solid) but at the very least I think the guy deserves our respect.

I mean, don't you wish the Browns had this philosophy? It was just enlightening to hear the coach of one of our teams who has taken a lot of heat sit there and take questions from us fans and tell us how much he respects us and has his guys play hard for us. That's how it should be IMO.

I kind of just wanted to share that, if anyone missed it.

This is what I've always tried to tell Wedge bashers, but to no avail.

I've never, ever understood all the hate for Eric Wedge.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:38 am

son of a bitch! i wanted to catch that on abao!
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby IronMike » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:37 am

Not certain posters are mixing personal make up with managing a baseball team.

Eric Wedge more than likely is a stand up guy, but when it comes to evaluating talent, managing a baseball team of championship caliber, winning close games against top teams and having Indian teams that execute the finer points of the game he is way down the ladder.

I'm hoping he can continue to feel comfortable in front of the television camera, so he can move on to the next level for misplaced managers ...
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:09 am

Chris wrote:he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now).


Chris, if you want to credit Wedge with the team "never giving up", that's cool.

My question to you is, if you credit him for the Tribe playing well when they are out of contention, do you blame him for the Tribe getting off to miserable starts during 5 of his 6 years?
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:53 am

So does that mean that us Cleveland fans are grinders???
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:00 am

Ahh.... there we go. Tilting back toward the proper axis now. Thought this was Twilight Zone episode for a while. (whew)

I knew Cris was screwed for a new-found respect thing. Time for respect to be confused with that one game in May where Wedge..... and then the first 20 games of..... and when kept______ in the 2 hole.

How is 'never giving up' suddenly the same as 'playing well while out of contention'? Isn't that an attitude applicable to any situation where you're facing adversity? Like behind in the count? Or trailing 2-1 in the 9th?

Why do you automatically go there Eck? That's a sickness sir.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:26 am

Peeker643 wrote:How is 'never giving up' suddenly the same as 'playing well while out of contention'? Isn't that an attitude applicable to any situation where you're facing adversity? Like behind in the count? Or trailing 2-1 in the 9th?


I asked what I think is a legitimate question.

The Tribe under Wedge usually play like dogs early on when the pressure is on. They usually play well when there is nothing to play for but pride.

Many posters, not just Chris, have credited Wedge for the late run of 2008, but I've not seen any of those posters "credit" Wedge for the team playing to 1 of the bottom 5 records in MLB from opening day thru July. Wasn't Wedge the manager for the entire year?
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby POLO » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:45 am

IronMike wrote:Not certain posters are mixing personal make up with managing a baseball team.

Eric Wedge more than likely is a stand up guy, but when it comes to evaluating talent, managing a baseball team of championship caliber, winning close games against top teams and having Indian teams that execute the finer points of the game he is way down the ladder.

I'm hoping he can continue to feel comfortable in front of the television camera, so he can move on to the next level for misplaced managers ...


Bang on ! I have no problem with him being a stand-up guy or even that he got the job cuz he is Shapiro's lil "Butt Buddy" but his managing of the game is Horrendous. We have a high school coach in this town who does it better than him and he SUCKS.

I want my manager to make the right decision no matter the situation. If the team doesn't execute that is one thing BUT we still need to make the decision to do the best thing to win the game at the time.

I wish he could get some "Face-time" with Tony LaRussa for just fifteen minutes and he could probably learn more about managing a game in 15 minutes from Tony than he has learned in his whole life.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:05 pm

Eckersley wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:How is 'never giving up' suddenly the same as 'playing well while out of contention'? Isn't that an attitude applicable to any situation where you're facing adversity? Like behind in the count? Or trailing 2-1 in the 9th?


I asked what I think is a legitimate question.

The Tribe under Wedge usually play like dogs early on when the pressure is on. They usually play well when there is nothing to play for but pride.

Many posters, not just Chris, have credited Wedge for the late run of 2008, but I've not seen any of those posters "credit" Wedge for the team playing to 1 of the bottom 5 records in MLB from opening day thru July. Wasn't Wedge the manager for the entire year?


Again I ask, where did CHRIS credit Wedge for the late run of 2008?

He talked about Cleveland being blue collar, the economic times and how he knows it's tough for people to come to games when the product isn't up to par and how he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now).
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:13 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Again I ask, where did CHRIS credit Wedge for the late run of 2008?

He talked about Cleveland being blue collar, the economic times and how he knows it's tough for people to come to games when the product isn't up to par and how he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now).


I took as "even when out of contention" as Chris referring to the good run at the tail end of 2008. Maybe he was referring to something else.

I also disagree with "Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely" but Chris is entitled to his opinion.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby cb » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:31 pm

I saw the interview. Yeah Chris, it made me dislike him a little less with his comments about the fans. At least you know he is not expressionless.

Alot of kiss-up callers tho. One of them wanted to make me puke about how great he was/manager of the year (blah blah blah) but I guess he would never come back on if the regulars were on reading him the riot act!
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:32 pm

Eckersley wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:Again I ask, where did CHRIS credit Wedge for the late run of 2008?

He talked about Cleveland being blue collar, the economic times and how he knows it's tough for people to come to games when the product isn't up to par and how he instills a feeling in his players that no matter what they must never give up and always try hard...even when out of contention (as we witnessed two years now).


I took as "even when out of contention" as Chris referring to the good run at the tail end of 2008. Maybe he was referring to something else.

I also disagree with "Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely" but Chris is entitled to his opinion.


Looks like Chris said he respects how Wedge handles his business and the values he instills. Specifically, how sounded in an interview. Doesn't look to me like Chris was referring to any specific at bat, game, series or season other than to illustrate the 'never give up' mentality.

Guess we see what we want to see. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be there.

It won't be long before folks have exhibition games they can use to criticize the manager over. No need to snap the chain regarding some cat's statement that he respects the way Wedge interviewed. The time will surely come. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Chris » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:34 pm

I also disagree with "Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely" but Chris is entitled to his opinion.


That's fine if you disagree, but I was quoting his exact words, so if he says he does all I can do is take his word for it and assume that he is not holding his hand behind his back with fingers crossed.

Like I said, I know Wedge takes a lot of heat and a lot of you hate him, but I just wanted to post this to give people maybe another look at him and how he operates. I think he has a lot of good qualities and while he's made his fair share of mistakes he's also had his moments too (didn't everyone question him trotting Byrd out there against the Yankees in Game 4?)

I guess I didn't convey very well with my words, so I'd just advise if there is any way you can catch the 1 hour long segment with Bruce and Eric, I suggest you find it. I don't think he's perfect or anything, but I'm just saying I have a new found respect for him. Maybe I'm just scarred by the ridiculous circus that was the Browns 2008 season where the players, coach and GM had this constant laughable interaction with the fans...usually in a bad way. Wedge came on Bruce's show and basically told it how it was: he knows we want a championship (badly), are a blue collar city, knows the economic times are tough and instills in his players a feeling that they are playing for the fans, and most importantly...doesn't care if the fans boo or not, because if they do, it means you are not playing hard enough.

That to me means something. *shrug* That's fine if it doesn't to you guys. I don't mean it makes him the greatest manager ever or even the best currently, but I think it counts for something and it's definately an element I'm glad to see in Wedgie. :thumb up:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Jennifer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:49 pm

POLO wrote:Bang on ! I have no problem with him being a stand-up guy or even that he got the job cuz he is Shapiro's lil "Butt Buddy" but his managing of the game is Horrendous. We have a high school coach in this town who does it better than him and he SUCKS.

I want my manager to make the right decision no matter the situation. If the team doesn't execute that is one thing BUT we still need to make the decision to do the best thing to win the game at the time.

I wish he could get some "Face-time" with Tony LaRussa for just fifteen minutes and he could probably learn more about managing a game in 15 minutes from Tony than he has learned in his whole life.
After having just read another Eck rant I read your post and even after taking into account you might have been exercising a bit of hyperbole and that you were sucking up to Tony -- even Tony wouldn't agree to your statement (Tony would say it would take at least an hour :angel:) -- - you make Eck look like he is pro-Wedge (that I can even write that about Eck boggles my mind and Teddy who is here with me is just staring at me absolutely wordless).

At this point rather than asking you to defend all of your outlandish assertions with facts I instead will make a simple request that should be able to fulfill. Please explain what you mean by the "right decision" and "the best thing" including in your explaination how the "right decision" and the "best thing" is determined" and by whom.

In advance, thank you.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby elsenortac » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:52 pm

If anyone is planning on attending the Tribe "Town Hall" Meeting in Solon tonight, could they ask a question for me as I am in Virginia and unable to attend. Please, would someone ask Wedge, he of the newfound amazing personality, is he considers Shapiro a Grinder?
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:57 pm

Jennifer wrote:After having just read another Eck rant


You consider that a rant? I was simply asking a question.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby statmasta » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:02 pm

IronMike wrote:Not certain posters are mixing personal make up with managing a baseball team.

Eric Wedge more than likely is a stand up guy, but when it comes to evaluating talent, managing a baseball team of championship caliber, winning close games against top teams and having Indian teams that execute the finer points of the game he is way down the ladder.

I'm hoping he can continue to feel comfortable in front of the television camera, so he can move on to the next level for misplaced managers ...

1) It's not his job to evaluate talent. He can observe some players and make suggestions to Mark Shapiro, but in the end, those aren't his decisions to make.

2) The 2007 Indians weren't of championship caliber? Or they were championship caliber and he just didn't manage them? If it's the former then you're sadly mistaken. If it's the latter then...what was he doing all year? Just sitting there watching? Wedge wasn't the reason we lost the ALCS. CC Sabathia, Fausto Carmona, and Josh Beckett were the reasons we choked.

3) Wedge and the Indians went 14-18 against 85+ win teams last year in games decided by 2 runs or less. That's not great, or even good. But that IS how a .500 team show do in close games against the top teams. He wasn't exceptionally bad or anything.

4) Finer points of the game? Like sacrifices? The Indians ranked 3rd in the American League last year in sacrifice hits with 43, behind the Twins and Blue Jays. What about walking? A good eye seems like a "finer point of the game". The Indians were 6th in walks last year among AL teams. Knowing how to stay out of a double play also seems like a finer point. The Tribe ranked 4th in the AL in fewest double plays grounded into. Throwing the ball in the strike zone is a finer point, right? Cleveland was 2nd in the AL in fewest walks allowed. What about just getting the ball to the catcher? We were 3rd in the AL in fewest wild pitches. And stopping the running game? We were 1st (FIRST) in the AL in fewest stolen bases allowed.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Jennifer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:07 pm

Chris wrote:
I also disagree with "Wedge basically "respects the hell" out of the Cleveland fans and understands us completely" but Chris is entitled to his opinion.


That's fine if you disagree, but I was quoting his exact words, so if he says he does all I can do is take his word for it and assume that he is not holding his hand behind his back with fingers crossed.

Like I said, I know Wedge takes a lot of heat and a lot of you hate him, but I just wanted to post this to give people maybe another look at him and how he operates. I think he has a lot of good qualities and while he's made his fair share of mistakes he's also had his moments too (didn't everyone question him trotting Byrd out there against the Yankees in Game 4?)

I guess I didn't convey very well with my words, so I'd just advise if there is any way you can catch the 1 hour long segment with Bruce and Eric, I suggest you find it. I don't think he's perfect or anything, but I'm just saying I have a new found respect for him. Maybe I'm just scarred by the ridiculous circus that was the Browns 2008 season where the players, coach and GM had this constant laughable interaction with the fans...usually in a bad way. Wedge came on Bruce's show and basically told it how it was: he knows we want a championship (badly), are a blue collar city, knows the economic times are tough and instills in his players a feeling that they are playing for the fans, and most importantly...doesn't care if the fans boo or not, because if they do, it means you are not playing hard enough.

That to me means something. *shrug* That's fine if it doesn't to you guys. I don't mean it makes him the greatest manager ever or even the best currently, but I think it counts for something and it's definately an element I'm glad to see in Wedgie. :thumb up:
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Jennifer Rule #3 -- Never ever ever, not ever start a thread saying a positive thing about Eric Wedge without expecting either major disagreement with what you said or attacks on other aspects of his managing.


Wedge is baseball's equivalent on this board to the Charmed Ones' Source (whom, for those of you who don't know because you are culturally challenged was, "the source of all evil"). All losses are the sole cause of Wedge's poor managing. All wins are despite Wedge's managing. With the Tribe so full of talent every year anything less than a 173 and 0 record is cause to fire Wedge.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Jennifer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm

statmasta wrote:
IronMike wrote:Not certain posters are mixing personal make up with managing a baseball team.

Eric Wedge more than likely is a stand up guy, but when it comes to evaluating talent, managing a baseball team of championship caliber, winning close games against top teams and having Indian teams that execute the finer points of the game he is way down the ladder.

I'm hoping he can continue to feel comfortable in front of the television camera, so he can move on to the next level for misplaced managers ...

1) It's not his job to evaluate talent. He can observe some players and make suggestions to Mark Shapiro, but in the end, those aren't his decisions to make.

2) The 2007 Indians weren't of championship caliber? Or they were championship caliber and he just didn't manage them? If it's the former then you're sadly mistaken. If it's the latter then...what was he doing all year? Just sitting there watching? Wedge wasn't the reason we lost the ALCS. CC Sabathia, Fausto Carmona, and Josh Beckett were the reasons we choked.

3) Wedge and the Indians went 14-18 against 85+ win teams last year in games decided by 2 runs or less. That's not great, or even good. But that IS how a .500 team show do in close games against the top teams. He wasn't exceptionally bad or anything.

4) Finer points of the game? Like sacrifices? The Indians ranked 3rd in the American League last year in sacrifice hits with 43, behind the Twins and Blue Jays. What about walking? A good eye seems like a "finer point of the game". The Indians were 6th in walks last year among AL teams. Knowing how to stay out of a double play also seems like a finer point. The Tribe ranked 4th in the AL in fewest double plays grounded into. Throwing the ball in the strike zone is a finer point, right? Cleveland was 2nd in the AL in fewest walks allowed. What about just getting the ball to the catcher? We were 3rd in the AL in fewest wild pitches. And stopping the running game? We were 1st (FIRST) in the AL in fewest stolen bases allowed.
JENNIFER's RULES ABOUT POSTING ON THIS BOARD:

Jennifer's Rule 6: Posting relevant facts that contradict other posters' rantings is mean spirted; if these facts are in response to Wedge rants they are outright evil.
Really statmas how in the world do you expect many of the Wedge bashers to maintain their precarious mental equilibrium by posting facts challenging their outlook on the world?

OT -- me thinks I'm not making many new friends on this thread today. Sigh!
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Brian » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:29 pm

I think knowing anything about anything that appeared on the WB network is culturally challenged.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:40 pm

Jennifer's rule #39....

When any poster posts facts that are negative towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "rants"
When any poster posts facts that are positive towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "facts"
:group:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:51 pm

Eckersley wrote:Jennifer's rule #39....

When any poster posts facts that are negative towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "rants"
When any poster posts facts that are positive towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "facts"
:group:


Dude, you took a post about how a guy appreciated Wedge's interview and how he found it interesting to immediately launching into a " Oh yeah? Really. Well do you...? What about the slow starts 5 of 6 years and the twitching nose thing?.....You do realize that...." shit.

All he said was the interview was interesting and that it gave him more respect for Wedge than he had before.

Holy Bob Fergus Eck.

Seriously. It's pathetic. And apparently a pavlovian response.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:55 pm

Having a little fun with Jennifer, that's all.

You need to lighten up a bit Peeks.

Where in this thread have I said anything at all negative about Wedge? I stated a fact that the Tribe gets off to slow starts under Wedge...that's it.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:03 pm

Eckersley wrote:Having a little fun with Jennifer, that's all.

You need to lighten up a bit Peeks.

Where in this thread have I said anything at all negative about Wedge? I stated a fact that the Tribe gets off to slow starts under Wedge...that's it.


I know. You're exactly right abut what you said.

And the thread was for asking if people saw a TV show.


:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:


And I'm the one who needs to lighten up. :roll :roll: :bag:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Jennifer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:08 pm

Eckersley wrote:Jennifer's rule #39....

When any poster posts facts that are negative towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "rants"
When any poster posts facts that are positive towards Wedgie, Jennifer calls them "facts"
:group:
I suggest you keep your day job in give-up your aspirations as a satirist. :heehee:

As you well know whenever someone offers a serious criticsm of Wedge that I disagree with I respond in a serious and respectful manner. When someone over and over again repeats the same arguments having never responded to earlier objections and in his latest post continues to ignore the objections than I do consider it a "rant."

It would save lots of time for you if you'd just post somewhere your list of Wedge rants so then everytime Wedge is mentioned you'd only have to type a number and a link rather than retyping the whole thing. Please forgive if I am wrong for assuming that you don't aleady have your rants on notepad and just cut and paste them. :heehee:

Jennifer's Rule #14: Saying the samething identical thing for the 100th time not only doesn't make it true but it makes some readers very crank.
Eck -- Even with my well known sense of patience a few of your boilerplate rants are starting to make me slightly cranky. :angel:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Jennifer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:10 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Eckersley wrote:Having a little fun with Jennifer, that's all.

You need to lighten up a bit Peeks.

Where in this thread have I said anything at all negative about Wedge? I stated a fact that the Tribe gets off to slow starts under Wedge...that's it.


I know. You're exactly right abut what you said.

And the thread was for asking if people saw a TV show.


:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:


And I'm the one who needs to lighten up. :roll :roll: :bag:
BTW -- What makes you assume, as you did on another thread, that people read your columns? :heehee:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby POLO » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:11 pm

Jennifer wrote:
POLO wrote:Bang on ! I have no problem with him being a stand-up guy or even that he got the job cuz he is Shapiro's lil "Butt Buddy" but his managing of the game is Horrendous. We have a high school coach in this town who does it better than him and he SUCKS.

I want my manager to make the right decision no matter the situation. If the team doesn't execute that is one thing BUT we still need to make the decision to do the best thing to win the game at the time.

I wish he could get some "Face-time" with Tony LaRussa for just fifteen minutes and he could probably learn more about managing a game in 15 minutes from Tony than he has learned in his whole life.
After having just read another Eck rant I read your post and even after taking into account you might have been exercising a bit of hyperbole and that you were sucking up to Tony -- even Tony wouldn't agree to your statement (Tony would say it would take at least an hour :angel:) -- - you make Eck look like he is pro-Wedge (that I can even write that about Eck boggles my mind and Teddy who is here with me is just staring at me absolutely wordless).

At this point rather than asking you to defend all of your outlandish assertions with facts I instead will make a simple request that should be able to fulfill. Please explain what you mean by the "right decision" and "the best thing" including in your explaination how the "right decision" and the "best thing" is determined" and by whom.

In advance, thank you.


Ok here it is in a nutshell.

#1 I don't suck up to anyone!

I am a baseball purist. If the situation calls for a sacrifice bunt THEN BUNT. Case in point: we are in the 8th inning in Boston down one run....We lead off the inning with a single....instead of having Peralta lay down a bunt and move Grady to second and give Garko a chance to drive him in we let Peralta try to get the hit....Peralta pops out...Now OF COURSE we let Garko swing which he grounds into a double play....The purist in me wants Garko to bunt and let Trav try to drive him in BUT I understand the thoughts of managers not wanting to have a semi-power hitter bunt (WHICH in my opinion is bullshit..because if the situation calls for a bunt and you are a major leaguer you had better be able to get the bunt down.)

Long story short we lose by one run due to a manager's decision to do the wrong thing. And that is but one example. Never mind that we are on the road and are suppose to play to tie the game (MORE BS). PLAY TO WIN.

Wedge can't do what he doesn't know how to do....And that is make a sound baseball decision in the easy games let alone in the tough ones.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:15 pm

Peeker643 wrote:And the thread was for asking if people saw a TV show.


You may need to go back & read the original post 1 more time. Chris was also giving his opinion about how "this guy really, really gets it"

Chris is entitled to his opinion. However, if anyone opines negatively towards Wedge, you (talk about Pavlovian responses) come running to Wedge's defense or begin personally attacking those posters. Heck, I didn't even say anything negative about Wedge & you couldn't wait to jump on my responses.

whatever

Chris, I'm glad you found the show to be entertaining.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:22 pm

Eckersley wrote:Chris, I'm glad you found the show to be entertaining.



This would have been perfect. :bag: :cheers:

I'm not personally attacking you Eck. I don't even know what you look like. The 'he gets it' quote is in regard to how he dealt with questions and the Cleveland fans. Not his knowledge regarding when to hit and run or which UIF to keep on the roster. That's just all some people hear. Regardless of the actual message. That's why it's funny.

I have no allegiance whatsoever to Eric Wedge. Don't care if it's him or you who has that job.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:23 pm

Jennifer wrote:As you well know whenever someone offers a serious criticsm of Wedge that I disagree with I respond in a serious and respectful manner.


Yes you do.

Then again, I don't recall a time that you've ever agreed with a serious criticsm of Wedge.

My response on this thread about the Tribe getting off to miserable starts under Wedge is a fact. If it's a negative fact, don't shoot the messenger, shoot the manager. :cheers:

That was the point of my initial response to this thread. I simply want to know why so many posters credit Wedge when the team is going good (Aug-Sept, 08), but blame the players, injuries, economics, etc. when the team is going bad.

Ex: tons of posters stated that "Wedge led us" in 2007, yet I never saw that response in 2006 or 2008. Who was leading in those years? I guess in some poster's minds, Wedge only "manages" in the good times.

I tend to look at the overall body of work, but that's just me.
Last edited by Eckersley on Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:26 pm

Jennifer wrote:BTW -- What makes you assume, as you did on another thread, that people read your columns? :heehee:


The mean emailer. That's really all I've got. A lot of them, but nothing more than that. Hey, you didn't send that under an assumed name did you? ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Hi Oktane » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:37 pm

Checking in on this forum for something more than "Wedgiro takes" makes me feel like Ralphie Parker checking the mail daily for his Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring. "Awww, skunked again." Nice attempt, anyway, Chris.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby OSU819903 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:54 pm

Polo:

Don't most purist subscribe to the notion that you don't play for the tie on the road, especially when you're talking about taking the bat out of one of our best hitters (JP)?
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby IronMike » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Eck, Amen I say.

I'm in your corner.

Do you need an agent?

You are one of the best posters of all time.

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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby hornet84 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:23 pm

I think I finally have it figured out. Eck and Jennifer are the same person ! A bi-polar Eric Wedge fan gone mad on a message board. It's either that ,or they are married and this is their on line counseling.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Eckersley » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:31 pm

That's funny, Hornet. :lmfao:

For the record, I'm happily married, but not to Jennifer, she is much better looking than I & I'm old enough to be her Father.

Thanks Sal! I don't need an agent, just a round trip ticket to Cleveland to help Wedge clean out his desk if Shapiro ever comes to his senses. :yessss:
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby Brendan » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:44 pm

Wedgie's team managing skills: A+
Wedgie's game managing skills: C- (that's grading on a curve)

I respect the hell out of the guy, but I hate some of his decisions during games, particularly with regard to pictching. Duke Snider once said that only about 40 games out of a whole season are determined by decisions managers make. If this is true, than Wedgie goes about 15-25 every year.

Still, it is refreshing that he seems to understand the the peaks and (mostly) valleys of being a Cleveland fan.

I'm certainly not in the anti-Wedge camp, but even those of us who pull for the guy must acknowledge that his game-management must improve if he is to have any chance of leading the Tribe to the promised land. Also, he needs to quit having man-crushes on guys like Delluci.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby statmasta » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:23 pm

Brendan wrote:Wedgie's team managing skills: A+
Wedgie's game managing skills: C- (that's grading on a curve)

I respect the hell out of the guy, but I hate some of his decisions during games, particularly with regard to pictching. Duke Snider once said that only about 40 games out of a whole season are determined by decisions managers make. If this is true, than Wedgie goes about 15-25 every year.

Still, it is refreshing that he seems to understand the the peaks and (mostly) valleys of being a Cleveland fan.

I'm certainly not in the anti-Wedge camp, but even those of us who pull for the guy must acknowledge that his game-management must improve if he is to have any chance of leading the Tribe to the promised land. Also, he needs to quit having man-crushes on guys like Delluci.

What is his game managing being compared against?

It's funny, everybody thinks their manager sucks. I've been to Yankees boards in the past and they ripped Joe Torre to shreads for his bullpen management. Cardinals fans have ripped Tony LaRussa apart for his team management and lineups. I've even seen Boston boards where the majority were calling for Terry Francona to be fired and that he was one of the worst managers in the game.

Apparently every manager in baseball is just that terrible.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby IronMike » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:27 pm

Eck, I have a free ticket here in my office from Southwest Airlines. As you know, they do not fly out of Atlanta. Don't fly Continental or US Air these days.

Agree with the C- minus grade for in-game managerial skills.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby zimmy623 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:17 pm

I attended the "town hall" meeting in Solon last night and for whats its worth I thought I'd tell everyone that Wedge was very impressive. Both his sense of humor and his candid anwswer to questions about players. He told a good story about agruing with an ump and another about bitching out the scoreboard operator at progressive field because he was furious they posted the tigers score in the middle of the game 2 years ago.
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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:01 pm

This non hating bullshit has to stop.

If you guys aren't going to paint Wedge as a drooling fucking idiot then you're time here is going to be hell.

For your own good, get in line with the Cancer Club and start talking about what's wrong, not what's not.

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Re: You know, say what you want about Wedgie...

Unread postby The Tribe Zone » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:41 pm

It was an old John Wayne movie, Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, where one guy made the statement, "He could talk the leg off a wooden Indian".......Yeah, Wedgie can talk the game.....

I don't have nothing bad to say about Wedgie, I don't have alot of good either....
I've got Wedgie at a C+ overall through the years, and he seems to be holding right there....

Fundamentally, his teams are weak. I think he needs to take each player by the ass, a cheek in each hand, and then using his foot, shove fundamentals right up there. Thats why all great managers look at their feet all the time and are pissed off, ready for a fight.....Foot Management....... :hic:

IMO, no player will ever be the best he can be, if some area of fundamentals aren't being used by him. Fundamentals are the easiest skills a ballplayer can use, and every player/team will benefit by using them. Learning them should have been done in his early years. He needs to be coached at this level on how to use them in his game.

Hitting and average defense isn't enough. At the very least, pick 1 fundamental and use it. Everyone will gain by it. :yessss:

Saying we're 4th in the league is a crap arguement. I say the whole league sucks at it. The whole league isn't a good judge of its use simply by looking at how often they use it compared to us.......

Inconsistancy....(I'm tired of remembering how to spell that)....We're smothered in it.

I'm not going to go on about the coaching staff.....except to say under Willis the pitching staff makes the adjustments needed........according to us fans. :sillies:

Play the game the right way.....WTF is that????????????

To a hardcore baseball fan, it stinks.

In the spirit of sportsmanship, I don't have a problem at all if my player gets hit while batting, and he challenges a pitcher by yelling something like, "Your a lucky bastard......if its near the plate that pitch was outta here....." :dingle:

If the opposing team takes it personally, and plays us harder, is the Motivator afraid we wont match them?
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