Would you?

[Ziner]

http://www.news-herald.com/articles/200 ... 104246.txt

The Los Angeles Clippers have lost 10 in a row. If they make center Marcus Camby available, would the Cavs try to make a run at him at the deadline? Some think it would take Cavs guard/forward Wally Szczerbiak and a first-round pick to get a deal done. -- Cleveland News-Herald

Would you? I would. Sure I would prefer to hang on to that 1st rounder or make it a 2nd rounder. However, I think this is a perfect trade. I really want to trade Wally, not because I dont like him (even though I really dont), but because it keeps us well over the salary cap and gives us a solid stream of expirings to trade. Camby would be exactly what we need this year, plays defense, doesnt need to score much and has playoff experience. He also will be a 10 mil expiring next year in which we could perhaps use with others to obtain Bosh next year if Toronto thinks he is gone anyways.

Thoughts?

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Kaman was just ruled out until at least late February and Randolph has been banged up. No way they trade Camby now.

[noles1]

Actually no, I wouldn't make a deal. Frankly I think we need to let Wally stick around and with him and Snow we can use that money to re-up Andy after he opts out.

I think keeping flexibility and re-signing Andy is absolutely Priority #1 for the off-season.

Unless you are BLOWN away with an offer, I wouldn't make a move.

[buckeye319]

I'd do it. If the Cavs get Camby, our front court would be dominant and have real depth. We could manhandle every team we meet in the playoffs downlow, guaranteed. I'm more than willing to give up the 30th pick in the draft for that.

Not sure how likely it is, but I'd pull the trigger.

[Ziner]

Kaman was just ruled out until at least late February and Randolph has been banged up. No way they trade Camby now.

They are 8-29 what are they playing for with or without Camby? If anything they might as well tank the hell out of it and try to get another young piece. Especially if they get a expiring and 1st rounder this year. There are some FA's to be had this offseason if you have the space. We dont, thus we need to trade to get them.

[CharacterIV]

I actually like the idea of getting Camby. I do think we need a big who can provide offense, but if you can't balance the offense with the defense, just turn the defense up to 11. Camby and Ben, who wants to come into the lane against that duo at C and PF? Sure, that frontcourt doesn't put up any points, but it won't give up a lot either. They'll protect the rim and snatch every defensive rebound. Also, if LBJ and Boobie/Delonte and Mo are the other players on the court, we'll have scoring options who are also accomplished facilitators, so if teams lay off guarding the offensively challenged Marcus/Ben frontcourt, there will be opportunities to pass for easy high percentage buckets. It's also another deal expiring before 2010. I think the Clippers might just do it; it seems like they'd be looking to shed salary sooner rather than later, having acquired Baron to try and contend before Brand Boozer-ed them, they're playing abysmal ball and are headed back to the lottery. Plus, they're a franchise with a history of questionable decisions...

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Why do we want to shove Andy to the second frontcourt option off the bench?

[papacass]

Camby? Yes, please. Roker would develop an erection capable of piercing solid diamond.

Mike Brown likes to play shrink-the-floor defense, when you start by taking away the high-percentage shots inside and work your way out (the main reason why KG, Dwight Howard et al. seldom go off against the Cavs). Camby is precisely that type of player.

With Camby working down low as the goalie, cleaning up mistakes, it would free up Ben and Andy to do more freelancing on defense. They could come out to the perimeter and pressure smaller players more often. I believe that is a strength of Wallace, in particular. If he can't really guard smaller players man-up, he can certainly help pressure and smother them. Wallace helped out against Pierce on Friday.

Plus, I like the fact that once Z comes back, you could give other teams dramatically different looks with your bigs. If you want more offense and a guy who can spread the floor, put in Z. If you want to bump and grind down low, put in Camby.

Roker could mix and match Z and Camby with Ben, Andy and J.J., and get all kinds of different lineups. Of course, Roker doesn't want to get too random with his lineups, but Camby would give him multiple options if the first couple of substitution patterns don't work.

[hermanfontenot]

Thoughts?

We make this deal, we win the title. End. Of. Story.

That's my thought.

[Ziner]

Well there appears to be a consensus saying they'd do it, more importantly would the Clippers do it? and would Ferry part with his 1st rounder?

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Well there appears to be a consensus saying they'd do it, more importantly would the Clippers do it? and would Ferry part with his 1st rounder?

They can't do it. There'd need to be more salary coming in from the Clippers. Wally is making $13M and Camby is at $8M.

Camby and Jason Hart could work, but I'm not too sure about giving up a first rounder for a 34 year old. Granted, Camby is having a good year in LA, but his numbers would likely decrease with the Cavs as he would be surrounded by good rebounders and better offensive talent. His lockdown ability on defense would be nice but it would cost depth in the backcourt.

If ESPN's salary is correct and Hoopshype's is wrong then we'd likely have to take Camby, Hart, and Ricky Davis. Not sure about that one.

[Ziner]

Well there appears to be a consensus saying they'd do it, more importantly would the Clippers do it? and would Ferry part with his 1st rounder?

They can't do it. There'd need to be more salary coming in from the Clippers. Wally is making $13M and Camby is at $8M.

Camby and Jason Hart could work, but I'm not too sure about giving up a first rounder for a 34 year old. Granted, Camby is having a good year in LA, but his numbers would likely decrease with the Cavs as he would be surrounded by good rebounders and better offensive talent. His lockdown ability on defense would be nice but it would cost depth in the backcourt.

If ESPN's salary is correct and Hoopshype's is wrong then we'd likely have to take Camby, Hart, and Ricky Davis. Not sure about that one.

According to the ESPN trade machine we can do Wally for Camby and Brian Skinner (who would promptly be cut). ESPN says Camby is making 10 mil this year. He made 11.5 last year, salaries dont typical go down in the NBA from what I know.

Anyone care to explain the Trade exception rules to me. We have one for Cedric Simmons, can we apply it to this trade?

[4thQtrGlory]

Thoughts?

We make this deal, we win the title. End. Of. Story.

That's my thought.

+1 Holy Rebounds, Batman!

[pup]

2 things would worry me.

1. Camby's health. Haven't looked lately, so maybe I am just remember him from a few years back, but dude seems fragile, oooooh, must be french.

2. Minutes. Basically looking at 96 minutes between 4 guys who all want to be on the floor. Can Roker handle the heads?

[Mr. MacPhisto]

According to the ESPN trade machine we can do Wally for Camby and Brian Skinner (who would promptly be cut). ESPN says Camby is making 10 mil this year. He made 11.5 last year, salaries dont typical go down in the NBA from what I know.

Anyone care to explain the Trade exception rules to me. We have one for Cedric Simmons, can we apply it to this trade?

No because we would be the ones trading more salary. The trade exceptions only work if we need to make up salary.

And the ESPN numbers might be wrong. Hoopshype has different numbers and part of me wants to trust them more. Hoopshype says $8M and ESPN says $10M.

NBA salaries can and do go down. You can create a contract that is frontloaded to a point. There are some restrictions, but you can start a contract up at $10M or more and then drop it down.

Hoopsworld has the $10M number too, so that might be right. That'd make the trade easier.

Camby's salary for next year would be $9.65M.

Still not sold. He'd not be bad to have, but I'd prefer someone with more offensive game in the paint with some range to go with it.

And I'm not sure how many minutes he'd get when Z is healthy. Varejao is playing well and needs minutes. Camby would essentially become an offensive upgrade to Wallace. That's not a bad idea. Can we trade Wallace then for something else? I think Ben becomes less necessary if Camby is brought on board.

[hermanfontenot]

Can we trade Wallace then for something else? I think Ben becomes less necessary if Camby is brought on board.

Why on earth would we want to do this? The point of bringing in Camby would be to provide frontcourt depth, not swap Wallace out for him. That would be asinine.

[CharacterIV]

Why do we want to shove Andy to the second frontcourt option off the bench?

I don't know that it'd really drastically cut into Andy's minutes. When Z comes back, he'll be starting, but odds are that Andy will be playing near the same, or possibly even more minutes as Z. Plus, Camby has a lot more experience playing at Center than Andy does, so I like Camby due to that. Z is our only "true" C right now. There's also always the possibility that the injury bug could rear up and get Z again, or Big Ben -- I pray that it doesn't, on both counts, but Camby would be invaluable if it did.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

2. Minutes. Basically looking at 96 minutes between 4 guys who all want to be on the floor. Can Roker handle the heads?

Make that 6 guys. Hickson and Jackson won't learn just by osmosis.

One other thing to consider too: If we trade Wally and he doesn't get McDyess'd, that means Sasha gets his slot in the playoff 8.

[diminishingskills]

One other thing to consider too: If we trade Wally and he doesn't get McDyess'd, that means Sasha gets his slot in the playoff 8.

1. Bron
2. Mo
3. Redz
4. Z
5. Fro
6. Wild Thing
7. Boobie
8. Dude acquired for Wally Expiring Contract

Looks to me like Sasha will have an excellent seat to watch the playoff action.

[hermanfontenot]

Make that 6 guys. Hickson and Jackson won't learn just by osmosis.

They'll just have to sit, then. We can go with a four-man big rotation: Z-Ben-Andy-Marcus. JJ and DJ will learn the ropes from the pine.

[Ziner]

2. Minutes. Basically looking at 96 minutes between 4 guys who all want to be on the floor. Can Roker handle the heads?

Make that 6 guys. Hickson and Jackson won't learn just by osmosis.

One other thing to consider too: If we trade Wally and he doesn't get McDyess'd, that means Sasha gets his slot in the playoff 8.

If we got Camby they could learn next year. In the playoffs I'd rather have Camby than JJ with all the experience he could get this year.

[aoxo1]

Make that 6 guys. Hickson and Jackson won't learn just by osmosis.

They'll just have to sit, then. We can go with a four-man big rotation: Z-Ben-Andy-Marcus. JJ and DJ will learn the ropes from the pine.

Seriously. The reason to bring in a DPOY level guy is that we need JJ or DJ to get a few minutes this season?

Sorry, if this team can make a move to put it over the top for a championship they HAVE to do it. I know we are all confident, but nothing is guaranteed. Ferry needs to do everything he can to bring the Cavs a title, and this move would be just phenomenal. The contract doesn't extend past 2010, it won't affect our ability to resign Andy AFAIK, and it gives us a second huge chip next year, in addition to Ben. It fills our biggest need, which is a 4th big, with a proven contributor with a defined skill set that he is great at. People seem to love Joe Smith. Well Joe Smith is shit compared to Marcus Camby. And it's not like dude can't score, either. He's not a Ben Wallace on offense.

I'm sorry, but if this is available Ferry needs to do it yesterday.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

I'm sorry, but if this is available Ferry needs to do it yesterday.

Not for a first round pick you don't.

Taking Camby of their hands gives them $12M or so to play with in the offseason. Maybe they don't use it, but I'm not going to give up a first rounder if I'm helping them ditch cap space. Maybe if another team out there is willing to offer so much, but if the Clips want to dump the salary then I don't give them a first.

The Cavs are the ones in a position of strength right now. Best record in the NBA. Do we really need Camby?

And yes, Camby has more offense than Wallace, but not a ton. He's never been an offensive powerhouse in the paint. He's having a career year for a team that is not good. His offensive production would take a dive here. His minutes would be cut. I don't see how he could get 35 minutes while competing with Z, Wallace, and Varejao let alone Hickson and Jackson. Yes, you could not play Hickson and Jackson, but that's not reality. Camby would be looking at 25-28 minutes a night here.

If I can do Wally straight up, yes. If not then I'd give up a future second. No first rounder for a 34 year old like Camby.

[aoxo1]

I'm sorry, but if this is available Ferry needs to do it yesterday.

Not for a first round pick you don't.

Taking Camby of their hands gives them $12M or so to play with in the offseason. Maybe they don't use it, but I'm not going to give up a first rounder if I'm helping them ditch cap space. Maybe if another team out there is willing to offer so much, but if the Clips want to dump the salary then I don't give them a first.

The Cavs are the ones in a position of strength right now. Best record in the NBA. Do we really need Camby?

And yes, Camby has more offense than Wallace, but not a ton. He's never been an offensive powerhouse in the paint. He's having a career year for a team that is not good. His offensive production would take a dive here. His minutes would be cut. I don't see how he could get 35 minutes while competing with Z, Wallace, and Varejao let alone Hickson and Jackson. Yes, you could not play Hickson and Jackson, but that's not reality. Camby would be looking at 25-28 minutes a night here.

If I can do Wally straight up, yes. If not then I'd give up a future second. No first rounder for a 34 year old like Camby.

If you are worried about giving the Clippers money to play with in the offseason, WTF? Seriously, it's the Clippers. Also, we are trying to win a title here. Who cares if some low rent team gets a little extra cap space in the offseason. We aren't signing anyone this year unless it's retaining Andy. And you certainly don't give two shits about the 28-30th pick in the draft.

Never claimed Marcus is an offensive power house. But at least he isn't a total liability on the court during crunch time. Not a dead eye free throw shooter at nearly 70%, but that sure as shit is better than the worst FT guy in NBA history. Plus, I'm pretty sure he can actually dunk the ball if its dumped to him down low. Camby playing 25 minutes a night would be the idea. We aren't looking for a guy to play 35 minutes. More like 20-25.

Camby has MUCH more value to us than Wally. An immediate, significant upgrade over the guy being shipped out at the position of most need who will also be usable as a piece to trade next year. Getting a guy whose contract doesn't extend past 2010 is a huge deal and is worth throwing in that first as opposed to getting a guy who runs through 2011 or 2012. A Pau Gasol-type trade isn't walking through those doors.

[Ziner]

I'm sorry, but if this is available Ferry needs to do it yesterday.

Not for a first round pick you don't.

Taking Camby of their hands gives them $12M or so to play with in the offseason. Maybe they don't use it, but I'm not going to give up a first rounder if I'm helping them ditch cap space. Maybe if another team out there is willing to offer so much, but if the Clips want to dump the salary then I don't give them a first.

The Cavs are the ones in a position of strength right now. Best record in the NBA. Do we really need Camby?

And yes, Camby has more offense than Wallace, but not a ton. He's never been an offensive powerhouse in the paint. He's having a career year for a team that is not good. His offensive production would take a dive here. His minutes would be cut. I don't see how he could get 35 minutes while competing with Z, Wallace, and Varejao let alone Hickson and Jackson. Yes, you could not play Hickson and Jackson, but that's not reality. Camby would be looking at 25-28 minutes a night here.

If I can do Wally straight up, yes. If not then I'd give up a future second. No first rounder for a 34 year old like Camby.

If you are worried about giving the Clippers money to play with in the offseason, WTF? Seriously, it's the Clippers. Also, we are trying to win a title here. Who cares if some low rent team gets a little extra cap space in the offseason. We aren't signing anyone this year unless it's retaining Andy. And you certainly don't give two shits about the 28-30th pick in the draft.

Never claimed Marcus is an offensive power house. But at least he isn't a total liability on the court during crunch time. Not a dead eye free throw shooter at nearly 70%, but that sure as shit is better than the worst FT guy in NBA history. Plus, I'm pretty sure he can actually dunk the ball if its dumped to him down low. Camby playing 25 minutes a night would be the idea. We aren't looking for a guy to play 35 minutes. More like 20-25.

Camby has MUCH more value to us than Wally. An immediate, significant upgrade over the guy being shipped out at the position of most need who will also be usable as a piece to trade next year. Getting a guy whose contract doesn't extend past 2010 is a huge deal and is worth throwing in that first as opposed to getting a guy who runs through 2011 or 2012. A Pau Gasol-type trade isn't walking through those doors.

Ditto, I agree 100% win now, if you can only give up a 2nd thats cool but a low first isnt exactly golden in the NBA

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Ditto, I agree 100% win now, if you can only give up a 2nd thats cool but a low first isnt exactly golden in the NBA

I think we are winning now and think we'll win a title as is. I don't think Camby makes the odds much better. We're winning without Z. I don't see the need to spend a first rounder on a guy like Camby, even if it is the 30th pick. I'd rather add the young talent that can develop.

I just don't see Camby making us substantially better. He's going to play maybe 10 minutes less a game. Probably score less as well, somewhere in the 6-8ppg range at best.

I see Camby here as having 6-8ppg and 8rpg. He won't be putting up the numbers he's putting up for the Clippers. The Cavs have better rebounders than the Clips, so he won't pick up as many. The Cavs also have more scorers. He'd be the fifth option on offense.

Not worth a first rounder and about the same offensive output as Wally but needing more minutes to do so.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Again: This means you have 96 minutes to spread among six players. None of Z, Ben, Andy, JJ, Darrell, or Camby can play smaller than a 4. Yeah, now you have flexibility, but this ain't NBA Live here. You'll also have less depth at 2 and 3. We would be a pair of injuries away from Tarance Kinsey Time.

There's a reason why, when asked, Stein and Bucher saw the Cavs trading for Wince Carter or AK-47. The well-oiled machine is working fine as it is. If Wally's going, it'll be for an upgrade to Wally's role as the sixth/seventh man.

[Hi Oktane]

Ditto, I agree 100% win now, if you can only give up a 2nd thats cool but a low first isnt exactly golden in the NBA

I think we are winning now and think we'll win a title as is. I don't think Camby makes the odds much better. We're winning without Z. I don't see the need to spend a first rounder on a guy like Camby, even if it is the 30th pick. I'd rather add the young talent that can develop.

I just don't see Camby making us substantially better. He's going to play maybe 10 minutes less a game. Probably score less as well, somewhere in the 6-8ppg range at best.

I see Camby here as having 6-8ppg and 8rpg. He won't be putting up the numbers he's putting up for the Clippers. The Cavs have better rebounders than the Clips, so he won't pick up as many. The Cavs also have more scorers. He'd be the fifth option on offense.

Not worth a first rounder and about the same offensive output as Wally but needing more minutes to do so.

Whack it.

We are there at the effing threashold, and some of you want to invest in / hold off pushing over the top in favor of projects (i.e., draft picks)? I mean, what is that. We talkin' 'bout projects? Shapiro on a pony!

Cavs - Wally + Camby makes us markedly better (which is scary). Period.

[diminishingskills]

I think we are winning now and think we'll win a title as is. I don't think Camby makes the odds much better. We're winning without Z. I don't see the need to spend a first rounder on a guy like Camby, even if it is the 30th pick. I'd rather add the young talent that can develop. ... Not worth a first rounder and about the same offensive output as Wally but needing more minutes to do so.

1. When you have a chance at the brass ring, you take it. "Thinking" that we have enough to win is fine, but I want that percentage of probable success to be as high as possible. As Oktane just said, having Camby instead of Wally increases that percentage.

2. I'd rather not spend the first round pick either. Really, though, we're ultimately talking about $3 million. The Cavs' pick will be at or near the bottom of the first round, in the high 20s/30 range. Every year, there are teams drafting in that part of the draft who are willing to sell their picks, because they don't want to be tied to the guaranteed multi-year contract. Every freaking year. So if the Cavs really want to be in the draft next June, they can buy their way back in. So really, the trade is Wally + $3 million for Camby (plus whatever filler is needed on both sides to make the deal work under the cap). I do that one every day and twice on Sunday.

[pup]

I am bringing Shawn Marion back into the discussion.

Find me a better player to defend Rashard Lewis...

[noles1]

AK47...

Jazz are a team that will have to examine their economic situation very quickly...

[jamesownsdet]

Camby is an upgrade over Wally. Not sure if he's the right guy. I would rather have Antawn Jamison. The Cavs do need front court depth more than anything. A defender like Camby or AK47 would be great. Jamison would provide some lethal scoring punch from the 4. I'll trust in Mr. Ferry to do the right thing with Wally's contract. Holding it and letting it expire is NOT the right thing IMO.

[Hi Oktane]

Camby is an upgrade over Wally. Not sure if he's the right guy. I would rather have Antawn Jamison.

Without a doubt. I just wouldn't rather have a late '09 1st round pick over him. The Cavs land AJ, and you can start mapping the parade route. Fo' sho.

I'll trust in Mr. Ferry to do the right thing with Wally's contract.

In TBO I trust.

[Ziner]

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I would take Camby over Jamison. I think Jamison is a better player with way more offense. However I dont want his contract. He ties up alot of the flexibility that I desire. I want to win now, but I want to keep us at championship form and not bogged down by long term (potentially shitty) deals. Jamison has 3 years left on his deal at the same price of Camby essentially except Camby is only signed though next year giving us the flexibilty for what we in Cleveland can call "The Summer of Bosh" since lebron will already be signed and we want the cap space to offer him a max contract or even trade before hand if the Raptors know he is leaving.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I would take Camby over Jamison. I think Jamison is a better player with way more offense. However I dont want his contract. He ties up alot of the flexibility that I desire. I want to win now, but I want to keep us at championship form and not bogged down by long term (potentially shitty) deals. Jamison has 3 years left on his deal at the same price of Camby essentially except Camby is only signed though next year giving us the flexibilty for what we in Cleveland can call "The Summer of Bosh" since lebron will already be signed and we want the cap space to offer him a max contract or even trade before hand if the Raptors know he is leaving.

+1

This is why I'd want Camby more than Jamison as well. Trading Wally for Camby is basically trading an expiring contract this year for an expiring contract next year + we can improve our play this year. Maybe give up our first and Wally for Camby and a second so we'd only be dropping a few spots in the draft and also get out from under the guaranteed 1st-round contract. Our rebounding has been terrible lately, Camby is one of the best in the league (just tied Howard for the league lead), and he doesn't need to score to be effective. Even if we trade Wally we'd still have 4 guards to go with (Mo, Boobie, West, Sasha) for the stretch run so I'm not worried about a lack of depth there.

[Hi Oktane]

Yeah, now you have flexibility, but this ain't NBA Live here. You'll also have less depth at 2 and 3. We would be a pair of injuries away from Tarance Kinsey Time.

We are that as it is, Madre. Wally is not a 2..or really even a 3 for that matter. He's a spot-up shooter that largely guards 4's. Camby for Wally doesn't weaken our backcourt any, imho.

And, (agreeing with a sentiment offered by DS), I'm much more concerned with the following 6 words: "Starting at Power Forward, Lorenzen Wright." (Probably more likely that we lose two bigs---Z, Fro---than two smalls.)

Besides, don't go belittling our brigade leader, sir.

P.S. Isn't it much more fun talking about the "problems" the Cavs have this year?

[diminishingskills]

Again: This means you have 96 minutes to spread among six players. None of Z, Ben, Andy, JJ, Darrell, or Camby can play smaller than a 4. Yeah, now you have flexibility, but this ain't NBA Live here. You'll also have less depth at 2 and 3. We would be a pair of injuries away from Tarance Kinsey Time.

I'm more concerned with being a pair of injuries away from Darnell Jackson Time. We've already been there, and given the propensity of Z and Ben (and, to a lesser extent, AV) to get hurt, it's a very realistic possibility in future games this season.

And as long as LeBron stays healthy -- and he seems to have that Jordan-esque imperviousness to injury -- being a pair of injuries away from Tarence Kinsey Time (note the boldface, which should always be used when referring to him) is not that worrisome/likely a prospect.

[ProgRocker]

I don't like burning Wally's contract on a guy who can't stay healthy. I realize he wouldn't be putting in the minutes here that he would be in L.A., but history is history and Camby's injury history really does worry me.

The Cavs have time to make a move; I say wait and see if someone who's more physically reliable comes up. If nothing else comes up and Camby's still healthy, go ahead.

[diminishingskills]

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I would take Camby over Jamison. I think Jamison is a better player with way more offense. However I dont want his contract. He ties up alot of the flexibility that I desire. I want to win now, but I want to keep us at championship form and not bogged down by long term (potentially shitty) deals. Jamison has 3 years left on his deal at the same price of Camby essentially except Camby is only signed though next year giving us the flexibilty for what we in Cleveland can call "The Summer of Bosh" since lebron will already be signed and we want the cap space to offer him a max contract or even trade before hand if the Raptors know he is leaving.

First: if the Cavs somehow land Jamison while not trading away any of the rotation players aside from Wally, we can start debating which way the parade route will proceed through downtown Cleveland next June.

Second: Chris Bosh is not coming to Cleveland. At least not as a free agent. The Cavs do not and will not have the cap room.

As it stands right now, the Cavs have about $37.5 million in salaries for the 2010-11 season, assuming that LeBron re-ups and that they pick up the option on Hickson's contract. That would give them six players: Bron, Hickson, Mo, Redz, Gibson, and Darnell Jackson. That would just give them enough room to sign Bosh, assuming that the cap continues to rise at roughly the same rate it has in the past. And that would be it. You couldn't use the mid-level exception once Bosh eats up the remaining cap room; the salary cap rules prohibit it. So you'd have those seven players and a whole lotta Jawad Williams types.

Varejao will almost certainly become a free agent this off-season, and he will almost certainly get a nice pay raise, maybe into eight-figure range. The Cavs will either have to pay it or lose their one proven young big. If Varejao wants to leave, that may be one thing, but indications are that the issues of the past are in the past and that he wants to stay here. The Cavs would be crazy to let AV walk so that they can maybe have a shot at Bosh a year down the line.

And that says nothing about all the other players who may be available. The Cavs' strategy cannot be to save cap room for 2010; instead, they have to win now, and take advantage of other teams trying to make cap room in 2010 so that they can get a good player or two now for 50 cents on the dollar.

I love the idea of Bron + Bosh too (and not in New York, for those readers named Stephen A. Smith). But I don't see it happening in Cleveland, absent some kind of mega-trade that pairs them up.

[Ziner]

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I would take Camby over Jamison. I think Jamison is a better player with way more offense. However I dont want his contract. He ties up alot of the flexibility that I desire. I want to win now, but I want to keep us at championship form and not bogged down by long term (potentially shitty) deals. Jamison has 3 years left on his deal at the same price of Camby essentially except Camby is only signed though next year giving us the flexibilty for what we in Cleveland can call "The Summer of Bosh" since lebron will already be signed and we want the cap space to offer him a max contract or even trade before hand if the Raptors know he is leaving.

First: if the Cavs somehow land Jamison while not trading away any of the rotation players aside from Wally, we can start debating which way the parade route will proceed through downtown Cleveland next June.

Second: Chris Bosh is not coming to Cleveland. At least not as a free agent. The Cavs do not and will not have the cap room.

As it stands right now, the Cavs have about $37.5 million in salaries for the 2010-11 season, assuming that LeBron re-ups and that they pick up the option on Hickson's contract. That would give them six players: Bron, Hickson, Mo, Redz, Gibson, and Darnell Jackson. That would just give them enough room to sign Bosh, assuming that the cap continues to rise at roughly the same rate it has in the past. And that would be it. You couldn't use the mid-level exception once Bosh eats up the remaining cap room; the salary cap rules prohibit it. So you'd have those seven players and a whole lotta Jawad Williams types.

Varejao will almost certainly become a free agent this off-season, and he will almost certainly get a nice pay raise, maybe into eight-figure range. The Cavs will either have to pay it or lose their one proven young big. If Varejao wants to leave, that may be one thing, but indications are that the issues of the past are in the past and that he wants to stay here. The Cavs would be crazy to let AV walk so that they can maybe have a shot at Bosh a year down the line.

And that says nothing about all the other players who may be available. The Cavs' strategy cannot be to save cap room for 2010; instead, they have to win now, and take advantage of other teams trying to make cap room in 2010 so that they can get a good player or two now for 50 cents on the dollar.

I love the idea of Bron + Bosh too (and not in New York, for those readers named Stephen A. Smith). But I don't see it as happening in Cleveland, absent some kind of mega-trade that pairs them up.

I suppose you are correct on the summer of Bosh, we wont have the flexibility to sign him as a FA, but I dont think it is completely unrealistic to trade for him next year, if he states he is leaving anyways or doing some sort of sign and trade after the year is over. He can attempt to force one too right? because he has a player option?

Another angle that would potentially work is if LeBron told Gilbert and Ferry he was signing (not Boozer type promise) and then didnt sign until Bosh signed. Is that possible? We can go over the cap to sign Lebron so if we signed Bosh first that would work?

Not completely sure of all the NBA rules, but I have seen many people here talk about it as a possibilty as well.

[papacass]

I'll trust in Mr. Ferry to do the right thing with Wally's contract. Holding it and letting it expire is NOT the right thing IMO.

Making a deal just to make a deal isn't the right thing, either. I have a bad feeling that if the trade deadline passes and Wally is still a Cav, fans from Toledo to Ashtabula are going to be ripping Ferry a new one, even if the Cavs are in first place in the conference. We'll be subjected to numerous posts on this very board about how Ferry is ineffectual and was unwilling to make the move to win a title, etc.

I'm sure Ferry will be draining his cell phone battery every day between now and the deadline, fielding offers and making offers of his own. But we as a fan base have to accept the very real possibility that Wally will not be moved. I think Ferry would be just fine with letting Wally's $13.7 million come off the Cavs' books at the end of the season instead of some other team's.

Just brace yourself in case there is non-action between now and the deadline.

[diminishingskills]

Another angle that would potentially work is if LeBron told Gilbert and Ferry he was signing (not Boozer type promise) and then didnt sign until Bosh signed. Is that possible? We can go over the cap to sign Lebron so if we signed Bosh first that would work?

Not completely sure of all the NBA rules, but I have seen many people here talk about it as a possibilty as well.

Nice thinking, but you can't do that. A free agent has a cap hold on the salary cap (more or less equal to his salary; that's not quite correct, but it's good enough for us here) unless his rights are renounced. So you can't use the cap room to sign other free agents, then go over the cap to retain your own.

[diminishingskills]

I'll trust in Mr. Ferry to do the right thing with Wally's contract. Holding it and letting it expire is NOT the right thing IMO.

Making a deal just to make a deal isn't the right thing, either. I have a bad feeling that if the trade deadline passes and Wally is still a Cav, fans from Toledo to Ashtabula are going to be ripping Ferry a new one, even if the Cavs are in first place in the conference. We'll be subjected to numerous posts on this very board about how Ferry is ineffectual and was unwilling to make the move to win a title, etc.

I'm sure Ferry will be draining his cell phone battery every day between now and the deadline, fielding offers and making offers of his own. But we as a fan base have to accept the very real possibility that Wally will not be moved. I think Ferry would be just fine with letting Wally's $13.7 million come off the Cavs' books at the end of the season instead of some other team's.

Just brace yourself in case there is non-action between now and the deadline.

+1

We'll never reliably know exactly what deals are available to Ferry. It could well be that none of them are preferable to simply keeping Wally in the fold. They are playing .800-something ball with him, after all.

[jamesownsdet]

I'll trust in Mr. Ferry to do the right thing with Wally's contract. Holding it and letting it expire is NOT the right thing IMO.

Making a deal just to make a deal isn't the right thing, either. I have a bad feeling that if the trade deadline passes and Wally is still a Cav, fans from Toledo to Ashtabula are going to be ripping Ferry a new one, even if the Cavs are in first place in the conference. We'll be subjected to numerous posts on this very board about how Ferry is ineffectual and was unwilling to make the move to win a title, etc.

I'm sure Ferry will be draining his cell phone battery every day between now and the deadline, fielding offers and making offers of his own. But we as a fan base have to accept the very real possibility that Wally will not be moved. I think Ferry would be just fine with letting Wally's $13.7 million come off the Cavs' books at the end of the season instead of some other team's.

Just brace yourself in case there is non-action between now and the deadline.

Being 36 and never seeing a championship + the gunslinger in me makes me want to fire every bullet I have when the target is this close.

That said, I certainly don't want Ferry to make a bad deal. Don't underestimate how much Wally's contract is worth though. As the deadline approaches don't be surprised if teams like the Wiz and Clips are drooling over that cap space. I feel that a nice player is going to become available to the Cavaliers. But I will do my best to have faith in one Daniel Ferry.

[jamesownsdet]

We'll never reliably know exactly what deals are available to Ferry. It could well be that none of them are preferable to simply keeping Wally in the fold. They are playing .800-something ball with him, after all.

Wally's in-game contributions are extremely minimal. Maybe in practice and in the locker room he's helping more. But his talent level and performance can certainly be upgraded IMO.