I'm going to sound awfully ignorant here.

[SteelersStillSuck]

But, why no Pro Hockey in Cleveland? I mean, I don't see why theres a reason why they shouldn't try a Pro Team here, rather than the Florida Panthers or all those southern teams. Pittsburgh has a Franchise and it's very successful, so does Detroit, and both are our Neighbor Cities. If we had one, I would try and go out and support it. (I may try and go out and catch a monsters game too. regardless)

Just an honest question, are we simply not a "Hockey Town"?

[TimL2009]

The Monsters are in the American Hockey League..The highest level of pro hockey outside the NHL. As far as why Cleveland may not now be a "Hockey Town"? It wasnt always so,

The Original Cleveland Barons (AHL:1937-73) was the class of the AHL at the time, winning 9 Calder Cups in their history. In fact, In the 1940's Cleveland was invited to join the NHL as the 7th team, but owner Al Sutphin turned them down fearing the collapse of the AHL if he did so. The NHL refused Cleveland entry several times since then. Last Original Barons owner Nick Mileti brought the Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association in 1972 and by 1973 the Barons were gone..Since 1972, there have been:

Crusaders (1972-76 )WHA
Barons (1976-78) NHL
Lumberjacks (1992-2001) IHL
Barons (2001-2006) AHL
Monsters (2007 Present) AHL..

A combination of several factors..The Location of the Colisuem, Bad leases at the Gund/Q Arena, mostly bad teams (the Crusaders and the Lumberjacks were somewhat competetive though) and overall instability of the franchises in question have contributed to the apathy of the sports fan toward Pro Hockey in Cleveland..I think given time and effort by Dan Gilbert and Company, the Monsters can turn that around..

Here is a post from my Cleveland Classic Media blog at the beginning of the Monsters season that gives a short History of Pro Hockey in Cleveland:


http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.c ... eland.html

[Spin]

The market just won't maintain NBA basketball and NHL hockey. Pittsburgh has the Penguins, but no NBA team.

The only market smaller than Cleveland that has NBA and NHL is Denver.

If World B and later LeBron hadn't come along, we don't have the NBA either...

[skatingtripods]

That's exactly it. Just not enough money to go around. By the time the IHL failed, the Lumberjacks' attendance was dwindling exponentially. The Barons never drew people.

There's not enough resources to support NHL hockey, where ticket prices start at $20 and go upwards of $150. In a major league town with a failing economy, we'd be in deep trouble. Cities like Nashville and Pittsburgh (without Mario, they'd be in Winnipeg or Kansas City) already have had really tough financial hardships and the NHL would never move a team into another economically depressed area.

Most of the Monsters tickets now are giveaways. The figures look good, but the revenues can't be.

[peeker643]

As long as we're talking cash, consider how many huge companies that once called Cleveland home are no longer here to give the business support these franchises thrive on. Every day there are fewer jobs downtown and in the area in general.

As mentioned in previous posts, it ain't the regular dude leasing the luxury suites. The few businesses that remain have to choose where to spend their cash as well.

[TimL2009]

Good thoughts from everyone..I had failed to mentiion the impact of the NBA and the shrinking economy, which could tie in to the factors I mentioned above as well. I think if we had somehow gotten an NHL team say, 50-60 years ago when the economy was better, we still might be in the league today, maybe even with the NBA..

[TimL2009]

Interesting timing..A report on the first few months of the Monsters' season in the Plain Dealer:

http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2 ... aking.html

[Spin]

You know what, I think with no LeBron, this city would follow a playoff quality hockey team more than they follow a playoff basketball team.

We'll probably never know because we've never seen a playoff quality NHL team in this town.

How bad were the teams? My favorite hoickey trivia question is 'Who was the last NHL in Ohio to have a winning record?"

The answer, "It's never happened."

The Blue Jackets could change that this year, by a squeaker.

[Spin]

On a side note, I think the monsters tickets are too expensive. There's no Hockey LeBron on the roster. They don't play the Red Wings and the Canadians.

It's minor league.

When I think minor league, I think of the Akron Aeros, $10 seats behind the plate, cheap food, free parking. Canton Legends $15 sideline seats 4 rows back, cheaper food. Wooster Warriors $10 rinkside.

Then there's college basketball, college hockey, etc.

$26 for decent seats? For minor league hockey? Not on my budget.

[skatingtripods]

Tickets are much too expensive. It is very easy, however, to get $10 seats and sneak into the top half of the lower bowl. For many games, recently, they've curtained off the top half of the arena and are selling the $10 seats in the top four rows of each of the end zone sections.

Either way, I agree.

As for a pro team, it would have failed here already, even if we had one some 40-50 years ago and it was a solid franchise. There's just not enough money to go around. The time to get one would have been when the Browns left and the economy was halfway decent. We could have gotten the Predators or something like that.

[papacass]

It's an impossibility for Cleveland to ever get an NHL team now. The existence of the Blue Jackets essentially cockblocks Cleveland from acquiring an NHL franchise because of the way the TV broadcast rules are laid down.

I think the Jackets have exclusive NHL local cable broadcast rights within a 200 mile radius of Columbus, which includes almost all of Ohio, and most importantly, the Cleveland and Cincinnati markets.

When the Jackets went to an Ohio flag as their primary logo, the handwriting was on the wall. The NHL views the Jackets as "Ohio's team," so there is roughly a zero percent chance Cleveland or Cincinnati will ever have an NHL team of their own.

[TimL2009]

The existence of the Blue Jackets essentially cockblocks Cleveland from acquiring an NHL franchise because of the way the TV broadcast rules are laid down.

I think the Jackets have exclusive NHL local cable broadcast rights within a 200 mile radius of Columbus, which includes almost all of Ohio, and most importantly, the Cleveland and Cincinnati markets.

Not Canton/Stark County:
The Pittsburgh Penguins claim the Canton/Youngstown/Steubenville areas..Time Warner has FSN Ohio in the Canton area and the Blue Jackets are blacked out here and since they dont carry FSN Pittsburgh, No Penguins either.


I am on Dish Network and get both the Penguins and BlueJackets with the Sports Pack..and when the Cavaliers and Jackets are on at the same time, I get the Bluejackets on FSN Ohio/Cincinnati

[papacass]

The existence of the Blue Jackets essentially cockblocks Cleveland from acquiring an NHL franchise because of the way the TV broadcast rules are laid down.

I think the Jackets have exclusive NHL local cable broadcast rights within a 200 mile radius of Columbus, which includes almost all of Ohio, and most importantly, the Cleveland and Cincinnati markets.

Not Canton/Stark County:
The Pittsburgh Penguins claim the Canton/Youngstown/Steubenville areas..Time Warner has FSN Ohio in the Canton area and the Blue Jackets are blacked out here and since they dont carry FSN Pittsburgh, No Penguins either.


I am on Dish Network and get both the Penguins and BlueJackets with the Sports Pack..and when the Cavaliers and Jackets are on at the same time, I get the Bluejackets on FSN Ohio/Cincinnati

The Penguins must have been grandfathered in, which I understand. Eastern Ohio probably comprises a sizeable chunk of the Penguins' fan base, and they probably negotiated with the NHL and Fox Sports to keep showing their games in that area so the Jackets wouldn't take a bite out of their viewership.

[Spin]

The Baltimore Ravens got around that somehow when they moved into Washington's market...

[skatingtripods]

The Penguins must have been grandfathered in, which I understand. Eastern Ohio probably comprises a sizeable chunk of the Penguins' fan base, and they probably negotiated with the NHL and Fox Sports to keep showing their games in that area so the Jackets wouldn't take a bite out of their viewership.

The NHL sets territorial market restrictions. As you've noted as well, the Cavs take precedent in the Cleveland market over the Jackets. This is a direct agreement between the Cavs and FSN.

I would love to have the NHL Center Ice package, but since I'm at school, it isn't feasible. Sure, I could get it online and watch all the games on my computer, but that's not really up my alley.

You're right, Papa, that the Jackets essentially squash any chance of an NHL team in Cleveland. There were rumblings early on that because Columbus's affiliation agreement was ending with Syracuse that Cleveland was going to become their prime affiliate. Obviously that hasn't happened.

As a side note, Rochester, the minor league affiliate of the Buffalo Sabres is bankrupt and the parent club is doing very little to help. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that Erie may get that AHL franchise, along with Niagara Falls, or some other WNY city.

[Spin]

Dang Rochester has had a team for years...

[papacass]

The Penguins must have been grandfathered in, which I understand. Eastern Ohio probably comprises a sizeable chunk of the Penguins' fan base, and they probably negotiated with the NHL and Fox Sports to keep showing their games in that area so the Jackets wouldn't take a bite out of their viewership.

You're right, Papa, that the Jackets essentially squash any chance of an NHL team in Cleveland. There were rumblings early on that because Columbus's affiliation agreement was ending with Syracuse that Cleveland was going to become their prime affiliate. Obviously that hasn't happened.

That's another thing. Why on Earth would we have Colorado for a parent club? Wouldn't it make more sense for the Monsters to be an affiliate of the Penguins or Blue Jackets, so we could flip on the TV and see former Monsters playing for a regional NHL team?

It might help strengthen Cleveland's interest in the NHL markets trying to draw a fan base from us. It might also help strengthen Cleveland's interest in pro hockey, period.

Myself, I could give a rat's ass what any member of the Colorado Avalanche does. They're based 1,500 miles away.

[Spin]

The Lumberjacks were affiliated with the Penguins, and you're right, it made it a lot more interesting. seeing guys move up, and guys playing here on rehab assignments (Straka).

The Barons were affiliated with San Jose and it just wasn't he same. Now we have Colorado's.

The pens have Scranton-Wilkes Barre, Cleveland/Akron/Canton is much bigger than those burgs...

I don't think they have much choice though, Colorado was the only team without an affiliate last year.

[skatingtripods]

The Lumberjacks were affiliated with the Penguins, and you're right, it made it a lot more interesting. seeing guys move up, and guys playing here on rehab assignments (Straka).

Martin St. Louis, Patrick Lalime, Petr Sykora, and others came through Cleveland when the Lumberjacks were here. Many of the current Sharks played here, but no one follows them around here anymore.

I don't think they have much choice though, Colorado was the only team without an affiliate last year.

This is untrue. Florida and Buffalo still have a joint affiliation with the Rochester Americans. Buffalo, as has been seen with the Rochester fiasco, and likely Florida, too, do not put the necessary money into their minor league system. They are the only two teams without a sole affiliate.

Anyway, it's been a carousel of affiliations in the AHL recently. Hershey used to be with Colorado, but now they are affiliated with the Washington Capitals. Meanwhile, the Portland Pirates are now with the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. That's Portland, ME, by the way. Rockford is now with the Blackhawks, who used to be with the Norfolk Admirals. Lowell has now become the Lowell Devils, abandoning their former Albany affiliate. Lowell used to be with Carolina, who now has Albany.

Phoenix is now with San Antonio. They used to be with the Springfield Falcons, having a joint affiliation with Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay now claims Norfolk while Springfield is Edmonton's team. Edmonton used to have a joint affiliation with the Montreal Canadians in Hamilton after their old affiliate went defunct.

All of that has happened within the last three years. The Monsters have had all of their cards in order for two years.

In summation, Cleveland isn't the only team with an affiliate that is nowhere close geographically.

Manchester, NH = Los Angeles Kings
Worcester, MA = San Jose Sharks
Portland, ME = Anaheim Mighty Ducks
Rochester, NY = Florida Panthers/Buffalo Sabres
Houston, TX = Minnesota Wild
Chicago, IL = Atlanta Thrashers (long-time affiliation)
Springfield, MA = Edmonton Oilers

These really aren't marriages of convenience. It's largely out of necessity. It would be great for the Monsters to be affiliated with Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or Columbus, but it just wasn't in the cards. Gilbert just wanted to fill the dates.

That concludes today's American Hockey League lesson.

[Rally Squirl]

as a fan of the Minnesota Wild and Toronto Maple Leafs i must say......total different worlds


there is no fan base whatsoever in the cleveland area and woudl never survive.

The cleveland Barons lasted about a year and a half before they were moved.

sure there are people that like the sport here but no where near enough to support a pro team.....the NHL would never grant the city of cleveland a team either

[Steve Buffum]

My response to playing LSU in their own backyard?

"Anything easy, aint worth a damn"
- Woody Hayes

I think the response should be:

"Aaaaaah! Aaaah aaaah aaaaah aaaaaaaaaaaah!"
- John Goodman, "Raising Arizona"

[JodyGerutsGhost]

Many of you have summed up why there isn't pro hockey in Cleveland, but concerning the Rochester situation, it's been known that Tom Golisano, who owns the Sabres, doesn't want to have an dual-affiliation anymore. He actually offered to buy the team straight up, but it was denied. Steve Donner, who is one of the owners of the Amerks, is a crook who has caused all this mess.

Have the Sabres placed money towards Rochester? They haven't. Rochester is the 2nd oldest AHL Franchise after the Hershey Bears, and it appears that they should field a team next season, but the Sabres are gone. I'd like for our team to be close, like Cleveland, but it sounds like the Sabres will use there AHL team as a baseball-like minor league, with just young guys down there.

We signed Chris Butler, and we should sign Tim Kennedy, Nathan Gerbe, and Jhonas Enroth soon too. But the Rochester situation is mainly due to corrupt ownership as well.

[Spin]

I stand corrected, the NHL could very well make it in Cleveland. Probably easier than the Cavs had before LeBron.

You're talking about a city that put 18-20,000 butts in the seats for indoor fricken soccer, and the arena football team is averaging 15,700. Arena football. 3rd best in the league. Charging NHL prices and going head to head with the Cavs and Monsters.

The team has to WIN. Major League baseball and NBA basketball can't make it in this town if it loses. If the team is halfway decent, people will come. And they'll fill the place for playoff indoor badmitten.

The NHL Barons replaced a mediocre WHA team with a bad NHL team in an arena that was 20 miles from nowhere, competing with the NBA. The Gunds decided to merge his two teams together instead of sticking it out awhile.

And we haven't had a chance with another one. We had some neutral site games that were suppose to evaluate new markets and we filled the arena. But Phoenix and Nashville and Florida got the teams. Raleigh????

Should we have a team? Hell we have more people watching missed field goals bouncing back into play than Columbus has watching an NHL hockey team with a bonafied superstar and were in the playoff hunt most of the season.

[skatingtripods]

Many of you have summed up why there isn't pro hockey in Cleveland, but concerning the Rochester situation, it's been known that Tom Golisano, who owns the Sabres, doesn't want to have an dual-affiliation anymore. He actually offered to buy the team straight up, but it was denied. Steve Donner, who is one of the owners of the Amerks, is a crook who has caused all this mess.

Have the Sabres placed money towards Rochester? They haven't. Rochester is the 2nd oldest AHL Franchise after the Hershey Bears, and it appears that they should field a team next season, but the Sabres are gone. I'd like for our team to be close, like Cleveland, but it sounds like the Sabres will use there AHL team as a baseball-like minor league, with just young guys down there.

We signed Chris Butler, and we should sign Tim Kennedy, Nathan Gerbe, and Jhonas Enroth soon too. But the Rochester situation is mainly due to corrupt ownership as well.

IIRC, isn't Golisano from the Rochester area?

You're right, the Sabres have not put any money into the Amerks for player development, arena upgrades, etc. I can understand the frustration with a duel affiliation.

That being said, I think that, because they were strapped financially, that's why they did things like name Scott Arniel the head coach. Arniel was an integral part of Lindy Ruff's staff and they felt that Arniel could oversee player development better than Cunneyworth could. Didn't James Patrick do a tenure down there as an assistant for a while as well?

With Buffalo being my favorite NHL team, I've watched the Rochester situation in moderation. I have seen guys like Pominville, Roy, Gaustad, and the like, come through the system when they played against the Barons. There's certainly been no shortage of talent. It's a sad state of affairs that they haven't put the necessary resources into the Americans, though I really don't think that it's for lack of effort.

JGG, so what's the likely scenario now for the Sabres to get another minor league franchise in the WNY area?

[JodyGerutsGhost]

Many of you have summed up why there isn't pro hockey in Cleveland, but concerning the Rochester situation, it's been known that Tom Golisano, who owns the Sabres, doesn't want to have an dual-affiliation anymore. He actually offered to buy the team straight up, but it was denied. Steve Donner, who is one of the owners of the Amerks, is a crook who has caused all this mess.

Have the Sabres placed money towards Rochester? They haven't. Rochester is the 2nd oldest AHL Franchise after the Hershey Bears, and it appears that they should field a team next season, but the Sabres are gone. I'd like for our team to be close, like Cleveland, but it sounds like the Sabres will use there AHL team as a baseball-like minor league, with just young guys down there.

We signed Chris Butler, and we should sign Tim Kennedy, Nathan Gerbe, and Jhonas Enroth soon too. But the Rochester situation is mainly due to corrupt ownership as well.

IIRC, isn't Golisano from the Rochester area?

You're right, the Sabres have not put any money into the Amerks for player development, arena upgrades, etc. I can understand the frustration with a duel affiliation.

That being said, I think that, because they were strapped financially, that's why they did things like name Scott Arniel the head coach. Arniel was an integral part of Lindy Ruff's staff and they felt that Arniel could oversee player development better than Cunneyworth could. Didn't James Patrick do a tenure down there as an assistant for a while as well?

With Buffalo being my favorite NHL team, I've watched the Rochester situation in moderation. I have seen guys like Pominville, Roy, Gaustad, and the like, come through the system when they played against the Barons. There's certainly been no shortage of talent. It's a sad state of affairs that they haven't put the necessary resources into the Americans, though I really don't think that it's for lack of effort.

JGG, so what's the likely scenario now for the Sabres to get another minor league franchise in the WNY area?

I don't see it happening. I loved the Rochester relationship, but the team doesn't have many options. The hot rumor is that the Sabres will sign with Portland (Maine) for the 08-09 season or have another dual-affiliation for another season. I hope we get out own Minor League team again, because I HATE the dual-affiliation. But I worry that they won't sign any veterans to the AHL roster and may use it like a baseball rookie league team.

The team, however, does have some nice talent coming out. I'm hoping they sign Gerbe and Kennedy this off-season, and they go and find a Terry Yake-like player for the AHL team (Yake played one season with the Amerks in 1996-97, and finished the season with 101 points) to help guide the rookies.

[SteelersStillSuck]

I've been thinking..if a team were to be successful, perhaps have a few Exhibitions/Split time with Columbus playing at the Q?

Maybe start out with games against Buffalo and Pittsburgh being moved to use The Q as a Neutral site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Panthers

Heck, heres another possibility, Bernie Kosar OWNS the miami franchise, Cleveland would probably be a much better place to put a hockey team there.

[papacass]

I stand corrected, the NHL could very well make it in Cleveland. Probably easier than the Cavs had before LeBron.

You're talking about a city that put 18-20,000 butts in the seats for indoor fricken soccer, and the arena football team is averaging 15,700. Arena football. 3rd best in the league. Charging NHL prices and going head to head with the Cavs and Monsters.

The team has to WIN. Major League baseball and NBA basketball can't make it in this town if it loses. If the team is halfway decent, people will come. And they'll fill the place for playoff indoor badmitten.

The NHL Barons replaced a mediocre WHA team with a bad NHL team in an arena that was 20 miles from nowhere, competing with the NBA. The Gunds decided to merge his two teams together instead of sticking it out awhile.

And we haven't had a chance with another one. We had some neutral site games that were suppose to evaluate new markets and we filled the arena. But Phoenix and Nashville and Florida got the teams. Raleigh????

Should we have a team? Hell we have more people watching missed field goals bouncing back into play than Columbus has watching an NHL hockey team with a bonafied superstar and were in the playoff hunt most of the season.

I think Spin has it right at the beginning of this post. Minor league hockey franchises don't fail in Cleveland because it's hockey; they fail because they're minor league. Simply put, we simply don't care about minor league sports. We don't have to when we have three (four if you count the Gladiators) major league franchises in town.

Put a winning NHL team in this town and we'd support it with the same passion as the Browns, Tribe and Cavs, maybe even more than we would have the pre-LeBron Cavs, as pointed out.

That's the advantage sports has in Cleveland. We're not a huge market awash in disposable cash, but there isn't a whole heck of a lot else seriously challenging sports for the entertainment dollar in Cleveland. We don't have a thriving night club scene, casinos, year-round warm weather or any of the other factors that make the Florida Marlins a nonfactor in Miami until they reach the playoffs and inevitably reward apathy with a World Series title. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

I'm just wondering, if the Gladiators-Destroyers rivalry picks up steam over the next few years, maybe it would convince the NHL that a Cleveland-Columbus rivalry would be a lucrative regional draw. Probably not, but the NHL would seem to need all the help they can get to stoke their fan bases in the hockey hotbeds of the U.S., which includes Ohio.

[JodyGerutsGhost]

To spell off what Spin said, I had a similar argument nearly a year ago concerning Hamilton, when Jim Balsillie was setting up deposits for Season Tickets at Copps Coliseum. It was during the 2007 Calder Cup Playoffs, and the Hamilton Bulldogs were on a roll, but the fans weren't showing up to watch the games.

Somebody attempted to run this off as a reason why Hamilton didn't deserve it, only for me to claim that it is because of the numerous capital that has been poured for a Major Pro Franchise that has failed to arrive. Hamilton's arena seats 17,000....and your not building that arena to house an American Hockey League Team.

Minor League sports may work in cities in the South, where you can build small arenas and bring in the transplants from the North. It could work from Minor League hotbeds like Hershey, Rochester, and Portland, but not for a city that is expecting more. With the recent struggles of many organizations to sell out games, and the NHL trying to find any type of exposure, wouldn't it be better to watch highlights of games where not 1/4 or 1/2 the building is empty?

Places like Florida, Atlanta, Nashville, and Anaheim are jokes. Tampa Bay is getting slightly better, so I can't bash them as hard. The NHL was considering EXPANDING the league to 32 teams, which is even worse, considering how Russia refused to sign the latest IIHF agreement, and many other countries will follow shortly. The talent pool is already diluted, no reason to make it worse.

The NHL rushed it's expansion in the early 90s. They placed franchises in cities with no previous hockey background there. You need to build within Youth Organizations, and expand from there. How does a major city like Atlanta have four hockey rinks? In Cheektowaga, NY, we have two, with a third slightly down the road, and a crap load more across Western New York. And Atlanta's Metro area has four times the people.....

But they can fix it.

And Cleveland isn't a bad place to start. It's in the North, and Cleveland has a good track record of supporting there franchises. The Browns, Indians, and Cavs have done pretty well, so it isn't so bad. Plus, they have a NHL-ready arena in Quicken Loans Arena, and they have another city in Ohio to build a rivalry with. I'd like to see a team in Winnipeg before Cleveland, but the NHL would at least get rid of some of those southern franchises and would get better for the league overall.

[SteelersStillSuck]

I just think it'd be perfect.

Move the Panthers here, give 'em a Cleveland sounding name, then market like hell Rivalries with Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit, and Buffalo.

[Spin]

The Browns were originally called the Panthers. LOL but I agree, we need a better name.

The Cleveland Burning Rivers.
The Lake Effect Blizzards
The Cleveland Choke
The Dreary City Stars

Maybe MAYBE we would have one stinking sport we can beat Boston in...

[Cerebral_DownTime]

People dont even support the Indians why the hell would they go to an NHL game (other than newness)? If your gonna move the Panthers anywhere it should be Green Bay not Cleveland, Ohio does not need 2 NHL teams.

[Spin]

We support arena football and soccer better than these other cities (C-bus included) support NHL hockey. Give Cleveland a contending major league team and the joint will be packed. how much were scalpers getting for Cavs tix?

Put a Rick Nash in Cleveland, a playoff team, and the same thing would happen with major league hockey.

We support the Tribe when they have their shit together, but who wants to pay a couple hundred bucks to watch Dellucci and Marte lose 1-0 every night? Not me.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Put a Rick Nash in Cleveland, a playoff team, and the same thing would happen with major league hockey.

No thanks. Nash can stay right were he is for the rest of his career. They will make the playoffs next year if they get him another scorer, which I believe they will do at the draft.

We support arena football and soccer better than these other cities (C-bus included) support NHL hockey.

No not really. How long have you had Arena Football? 1 year? Hockey is a big draw in Columbus much more than what you would think. You guys have the Monsters why not pay to see them? Bottom line the Bluejackets do very well in Columbus despite never making the playoffs, all the new shine has worn off this team and yet the fans still come out in droves to see them. Cant wait for the Bison to show up. AAA baseball will thrive here also.

We support the Tribe when they have their shit together, but who wants to pay a couple hundred bucks to watch Dellucci and Marte lose 1-0 every night? Not me.

Translation: When the Indians do good we love them when they dont only the Diehards care (which I consider anyone on this board to be) . I agree with you on Farte and Dellucci nobody wants to watch them. If you guys got an NHL team i would be happy for the fans of hockey. But there way more deserving fans out there who want it more. If anybody should get the Panthers it should be Green Bay. Those people would eat hockey up. Clevelanders support the hell out of the Browns (even when they were terrible) and the Cavs. No need to stick another team on and already crowded sports market when you have the Bluejackets a couple hundred miles away. I dont want an NBA, NFL, or MLB team in Columbus because my loyalties lie with Cleveland in those sports. I bet there are alot of NHL fans in NE Ohio that think the same way about hockey.

[Spin]

I was going by attendance. The Gladiators outdraw the Blue Jackets while competing against the NBA and AHL.

Trying to figure how a major league city would support a major league hockey team based on attendance at a (really bad) minor league hockey team, just no comparison. Minor league hockey may be the show in Wheeling and Saskatoon, here you need the big leagues to compete.

I see Cleveland being more of a hockey town than a basketball town. Kind of like a Pittsburgh or a Detroit. Or a Columbus. I know a lot of people who aren't really basketball fans but enjoy watching LBJ. They would much rather have a title contending NHL team with the same caliber star.

But that's just my opinion.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Do they air Bluejackets games up north? I always wondered that seeing how FSN shows Cavs games here. You really think Cleveland would rather have a superstar lead NHL team than NBA? I always pegged the Cavs to be the 2nd favorite team after the Browns. In some ways it similar the Buckeyes here, there is no question who is #1 in the fans hearts these are football towns. If you guys got a team I would be happy for the hockey fans but sad the Bluejackets would lose most of the support in NE Ohio.

[skatingtripods]

Do they air Bluejackets games up north? I always wondered that seeing how FSN shows Cavs games here. You really think Cleveland would rather have a superstar lead NHL team than NBA? I always pegged the Cavs to be the 2nd favorite team after the Browns. In some ways it similar the Buckeyes here, there is no question who is #1 in the fans hearts these are football towns. If you guys got a team I would be happy for the hockey fans but sad the Bluejackets would lose most of the support in NE Ohio.

Yes, but the Cavs take precedent when they're on at the same time.


Anyway, the NHL could not survive here. It's just a fact. Look at ticket prices around the league. The people in this bumbling economy cannot afford an NHL team + the Browns + the Cavs + the Tribe. Sure there are youth programs starting up everywhere, and municipal rinks being built, but that doesn't mean that the NHL would flourish here.

Arena football does well because we are, first and foremost, a football town. Even the minor league baseball teams draw pretty well. Hockey, however, would not. The Monsters attendance is inflated by how many free tickets they gave away and how many discounted tickets they gave away. The on-ice product was terrible, but people won't pass up a free night out, especially families.

Think about the cities that have all four major sports leagues. Detroit, New York, Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Denver, Phoenix, Miami (two of whom are barely followed). All of them either have huge metropolitan areas, lots of suburbs, or people in technologically advanced markets where potential fans have disposable income.

Cleveland's population is decreasing rapidly, there is little investment in the area, except for MedMart now and maybe a new convention center at some point, basically zero dotcom business, and a metropolitan area that consists of lots of minor suburbs.

NHL hockey just would not fly in this area. The Q would need SUBSTANTIAL improvements to be an NHL caliber rink. It has terrible glass and the worst ice in the AHL (as commented on by players). It would not be a wise investment for anyone to bring a team here.

[Spin]

You really think Cleveland would rather have a superstar lead NHL team than NBA?

The Cavs were ready to leave town before we got Le Bron in the lottery.

On the other hand, we put 18,000 people a night in the "Big House on the Prarie" when the Force were perenial title contenders. Well, until everyone realized the team choked as bad as every other Clev team, and it was the only team making money. Once the DeBartolo's and Jerry Buss's and NY Cosmos' left, it lost it's "major league" luster some fans saw it having.

Unless you're the Browns, you gotta win to survive here. Remember the Thunderbolts?