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Calling all Communists

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Calling all Communists

Unread postby budfrog532 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:57 am

So, I was having a discussion with a guy yesterday, and mentioned how I will be at a soccer match Saturday night.

He then launches into a Jim Rome wannabe rant about how soccer's not a real sport, etc, etc, etc...

...so I am interested in opinions, especially from people that literally "hate" a sport this much --- why? What do you dislike so much about the most popular sport in the world?

I play football, basketball, soccer and racquetball on a regular basis (actually much more infrequent basis now that I have kids and my own business) --- I enjoy each of these sports for various reasons...

I am a season ticket holder for the Browns, and I am also a season ticket holder for the City Stars...and I enjoy the hell out of each sport and the passion that the fans bring to the games.

I just don't get why people have such a hatred for the beautiful game...
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Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:09 am

i used to hate on basketball although I'd never seen a full game or invested any time in the sport whatsoever

now I love it and am a die hard Cavs fan

people have a tendency to just bash anything they have little knowledge of.
They go off what media personnel or what their friends or people around them say (I know most American sports journalists take the piss out of football) they dont have any of their own experiences of the sport to go off so they just agree with what the next ignorant hater thinks.

the MLS doesn't help either :P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby Spin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:54 am

I always loved soccer, starting with the show that was on one of the UHF channels (wayyyy before cable) called "Soccer Made in Germany". I knew more about teams like Arminia Bielefeld than I did the NL baseball teams. LOL

I got into indoor soccer, down here we had a team called the Canton Invaders that was a fricken dynasty. Five titles in seven years. Then the MISL teams came down and bastardised the rules (2 point goals, 3 point goals). Canton hired a GM who went to Ted Stepien Team Management training. And I lost interest.

I was a season ticket holder of the Caps, and talked a lot with team owner Mike Sweeney during that time. Brought in some old Vancouver Whitecaps and Cleveland Force media guides when he was a player. We always had a good time at his games.

I've never been able to get my hands around the Crew. Don't know why. Being a firefighter you know I'm a Chicago fan. Best uni in all sports!!!

I've yet to make a Stars game. I started following the Akron Zips, they have a serious program. nationally ranked and in the tourney last year. I'll have to make the trip up to Cleveland to see the Stars.
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Unread postby CCSUltra » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:25 am

I'm also a Browns season ticket holder (well, my dad and I) and a City Stars season ticket holder. I love both sports. I am also a Cavs and Indians fan (but not as much as a Browns/City Stars).

I was into "American" sports waaaaaaaaay before I got into soccer. It wasn't until I was in 6th grade that I got into the beautiful game.
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Unread postby budfrog532 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:09 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:the MLS doesn't help either :P :-P :razz:


LOL, agreed...at least they got rid of the "special" MLS rules and play by FIFA standards now. It only took 6 years or so to figure that out.
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Unread postby El Heffe » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:32 am

To put the MLS in perspective, Taylor Twellman, the MVP of the MLS a year back or so. Tried out in the EPL, and couldn't crack ANY playing time. I firmly believe if people watched EPL, Super Liga, etc they'd like soccer.
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Unread postby steviedifranco » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:45 pm

I love the MLS, they have some real talent on the field now. And the Crew has a good squad this year, they are fun to watch. Don't hate on 'em!
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:34 pm

The honest response involves some psychology. There are two things virtually no healthy person likes:

1) Being told he's stupid
2) Being condescended to

Now, I am not saying this about any individual on this board. You may be like this. You may not be like this. The point is, the person I'm about to describe is common enough to be readily-available at nearly any point on the globe. You have met this person, whether you are him or not.

Imagine this: regular American Guy wanders into a room. The people are watching a soccer match. American Guy doesn't know who's playing. He doesn't understand the abbreviations. The players have NOTHING on their uniforms to help him determine which team is which. (Unless this is World Cup) He watches a man run with the ball. The man runs into another man. One falls down, and a third player begins kicking the ball.

He kicks it to another man. An opponent runs into him. He falls to the ground writhing in pain. A black-shirted gentleman blows a whistle and points. A teammate of the man who is writhing touches the ball and kicks it. The man in pain gets up and begins to run.

The ball is kicked some more. It rolls out of bounds and a man throws it in the most awkward way imaginable. It goes to a player, and an opponent runs into him. The man whistles again, and play continues. At this point the American Guy can't contain his confusion.

"Why is that a foul?" he asks. "The other guy ran into that other guy, and it wasn't a foul."

"Because it wasn't a foul," Football Fan sneers. "Can't you tell a foul from clean play?"

"Apparently not," sulks American Guy.

American Guy watches ten minutes of soccer. There are three corner kicks, two free kicks, and one length-of-the-field run. There is one shot on goal. It misses the goalkeeper, the goalpost, and strikes a low-flying aircraft.

"These are the best players in the world?" American Guy says aloud.

"No, this is Everton-Portsmouth," jeers the Football Fan in the bright red jersey with a company's name on the front. American Guy figures it must be his company's softball team.

"But they're a damn sight better than any roided-up freak, eh, what?" laughs his friend. His friend must be a referee, his jersey has vertical stripes on it.

"They seem athletic," American Guy admits. "But when do they actually ACCOMPLISH something?"

American Guy is then subjected to a ninety-minute distribe about the wonders of soccer. This diatribe is technical, involving terms American Guy doesn't know, and profane, berating American Guy for not knowing them, and esoteric, referring to players American Guy has never heard of. Imagine describing a baseball player to a Frenchman as a cross between David Riske and Jensen Lewis. He would think you were absurd. The description is actually quite informative ... but not to a Frenchman.

American Guy is told that:

1) He is stupid for not understanding the beauty of soccer
2) He is a poor observer to not see how the defense rotated to handle the ball rotation
3) He wastes his time watching stupid, pointless sports like gridiron and baseball
4) Soccer is beautiful, even if he can't see it
5) Soccer is superior, if only he were smart and patient enough to understand it
6) He is an idiot and uncultured and boorish and very, very American, and there is plenty of scoring, and soccer players are better athletes and more cultured and smarter and everything about soccer is better than anything else in his ridiculous, grotesque American life and why doesn't he just die of embarrassment now and save the time?

In the meantime, American Guy finds the game dull and pointless and if this is the kind of guy he has to hang out with to enjoy it, then forget it, he has other things to do.

Fini.

THAT'S why Americans hate soccer. Because Football Fan can't express himself in a way that makes sense to a guy starting from near zero, and is often condescending and rude in telling American Guy the things he doesn't know.
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Unread postby CCSUltra » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:06 pm

There are a lot of things I'd like to point out about that, including your sweeping generalizations. However, because I'm lazy, all I feel like right now is responding to your comment about the "company softball team."

We all know there is no commercialism in American sports. You're right. It's not like thousands of people watch cars covered in ads drive around in a circle every week. Wait a second...

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Unread postby budfrog532 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:42 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:The honest response involves some psychology. There are two things virtually no healthy person likes:

1) Being told he's stupid
2) Being condescended to

.....

THAT'S why Americans hate soccer. Because Football Fan can't express himself in a way that makes sense to a guy starting from near zero, and is often condescending and rude in telling American Guy the things he doesn't know.


Interesting --- I have watched soccer with a lot of different people, in a lot of different countries...and I have never experienced the situation you described.

It's kind of like when I took a group of Belgians to a baseball game, they just didn't get it, but asked a lot of question and I explained. They respected that it took skill to play the game, even if they didn't understand it. I guess I could have disrespected their lack of knowledge, but that wouldn't have been good for business!

It is interesting to see how energized guys in a pub in Belfast or Brussels get when they find out that there is a "Yank" who is actually a fan of soccer...never had to buy a drink after people found that out!

Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait a few more years for the generation that made soccer the most popular youth sport to become adults.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:09 pm

CCSUltra wrote:There are a lot of things I'd like to point out about that, including your sweeping generalizations. However, because I'm lazy, all I feel like right now is responding to your comment about the "company softball team."

We all know there is no commercialism in American sports. You're right. It's not like thousands of people watch cars covered in ads drive around in a circle every week. Wait a second...


If you are hoping for a spirited defense of NASCAR as a "sport," you'll have to wait for someone who understands that phenomenon.
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Unread postby CCSUltra » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:12 pm

I'm not going to defend NASCAR. I don't like it, but hell, I could never do what the drivers do.

And Bud, I've had the same experiences as you. When I was first getting into soccer, I was never looked down upon by other soccer fans.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:13 pm

budfrog532 wrote:
Steve Buffum wrote:The honest response involves some psychology. There are two things virtually no healthy person likes:

1) Being told he's stupid
2) Being condescended to

.....

THAT'S why Americans hate soccer. Because Football Fan can't express himself in a way that makes sense to a guy starting from near zero, and is often condescending and rude in telling American Guy the things he doesn't know.


Interesting --- I have watched soccer with a lot of different people, in a lot of different countries...and I have never experienced the situation you described.


Okay, I literally find that incredible. As in, it isn't credible.

Please. Be honest with yourself. I love soccer. I played defense back when they called it "fullback." I played an electonic simulation with people from all over the world from 1990 to 1999. Maybe it's because I'm in Texas. But that haughty, superior guy is EVERYWHERE. I saw him in Ohio. I saw him in Northern Virginia. I saw him in New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Colorado. Every. Where. Everywhere.

Oddly enough, I didn't find him in Germany. Saw lots and lots and lots of him in England, though. Lots.
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Unread postby SteelersStillSuck » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:37 pm

I don't nessicirially hate the sport at all.

Very, very hard to keep my attention on the current MLS version, but I imagine if I was in europe that it would be rather entertaining.

Big problem is a lot of soccer fans I've met are rather elitist about the whole ordeal. Defintly not saying that this is the case for all soccer fans. But they just look at you really weird if you're a huge football fan, etc.
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Unread postby budfrog532 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:21 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:Okay, I literally find that incredible. As in, it isn't credible.

Please. Be honest with yourself. I love soccer. I played defense back when they called it "fullback." I played an electonic simulation with people from all over the world from 1990 to 1999. Maybe it's because I'm in Texas. But that haughty, superior guy is EVERYWHERE. I saw him in Ohio. I saw him in Northern Virginia. I saw him in New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Colorado. Every. Where. Everywhere.

Oddly enough, I didn't find him in Germany. Saw lots and lots and lots of him in England, though. Lots.


Hmmm...so your personal experience is valid, but mine isn't.

That's a curious way to try to make a convincing point.

If you sat next to me in a bar and asked "elementary" questions about the game, I would definitely discuss the sport with you and respect that you were taking an interest...so again, it is interesting that you have had this experience with soccer fans, I just don't think it's a particular strong argument since it's not even close to a universal experience.
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Unread postby Spin » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:45 pm

Soccer is the second most physically demanding sport in the world. What other sport requires that much stamina and precision for two 45 minute non-stop periods?

Auto racing is a much different sport than stick and ball, if you've never done it, you'dd never understand. I don't want to go into it, because like soccer, a lot of haters will never consider anything to the contrary of their "vast intelligence" on the sport.
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Unread postby pitts » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Spin wrote:Soccer is the second most physically demanding sport in the world. What other sport requires that much stamina and precision for two 45 minute non-stop periods?

Auto racing is a much different sport than stick and ball, if you've never done it, you'dd never understand. I don't want to go into it, because like soccer, a lot of haters will never consider anything to the contrary of their "vast intelligence" on the sport.


Out of curiosity, what do you consider the most physically demanding?
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Unread postby buckeyehoppy » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Haters hate.

It doesn't matter what they are hating on, they just hate.

If you don't understand something, investigate it and learn about it. If it looks interesting at first glance, it probably is.

That's how I learned about cricket. I still am pretty fuzzy on much of the game, but I get the gist of it. It's an interesting sport requiring many of the same skills as baseball, but it is a much different game.

I have always enjoyed soccer and consider myself fortunate to have grown up in Bay Village, where soccer always has had a healthy level of interest. I played midfield growing up, but as I got older I gravitated to football.

If I had a chance to do it over, I would have continued in soccer. Football did nothing for me as a wrestler. Soccer would have taken much of conditioning aspect of wrestling and incorporated it in the conditioning aspect of soccer. One hand would have washed the other under the circumstances.

Plus, I would have had much more fun playing soccer and I would have been on a team that was well regarded in the area. My senior year in football was drudgery and we finished with one win. In the end, playing football proved to be far less fun although I didn't realize it at the time.

But soccer is a simple and fun sport that requires peak conditioning, good pedal dexterity and balance. You'll notice that you don't see the 'roid rangers of other sports in soccer. Soccer is a sport that requires endurance and skill more than strength.

The sport will continue to grow in America and Canada. Chances are good that understanding of the game grows, so will the following. That will also be true as the "major league" sports continue to be plagued with the growing specter of chemical enhancement, rules violations and egotistical players and other "participants" in major sports that do nothing but bring down the reputation of otherwise great games.
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Unread postby Spin » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:05 pm

It's not what I consider, it's what research labs have found. I can only consider the sports I have played, IMO it is #1...

Depending on which study you read, pro soccer is #1 and pro motocross is #2. Some have those reversed, some don't include motocross.

There's a reason the rest of the world has a passion for the sport. And a growing number of people here get it.
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