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Keep digging yourself into a hole obama.

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Keep digging yourself into a hole obama.

Unread postby SteelersStillSuck » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:53 pm

LEBANON, Va. - What's the difference between the presidential campaign before and after the national political conventions? Lipstick. The colorful cosmetic has become a political buzzword, thanks to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience Tuesday that GOP presidential nominee John McCain says he'll change Washington, but he's just like President Bush.

"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said to an outbreak of laughter, shouts and raucous applause from his audience, clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still going to stink after eight years."

McCain's campaign called the comments "offensive and disgraceful" and said Obama owes Palin an apology. Obama's campaign said he wasn't referring to Palin and said the GOP camp was engaging in a "pathetic attempt to play the gender card." Obama's camp also noted that McCain once used the same phrase to describe Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan.

Obama followed up by saying Palin is an interesting story, drawing boos at the mention of her name that he tried to cut off.

"Look, she's new, she hasn't been on the scene, she's got five kids. And my hat goes off to anybody whose looking after five. I've got two and they tire Michelle and me out," he said.

In Virginia, a questioner asked Obama to join Republicans and agree that candidates' families and religion are off limits. Palin's pregnant teenage daughter and the teachings of her church, the nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church, have been the subject of scrutiny since McCain picked her as his running mate.

Obama responded that he already has said families are off limits and he's very protective of his daughters, 10-year-old Malia and 7-year-old Sasha. He said he doesn't want their inevitable future mistakes to become newspaper fodder if he gets to the White House.

Obama also is no stranger to attacks on his religion. He's been the subject of a false rumor campaign saying he's a Muslim, and the racially tinged sermons of his longtime former preacher caused problems for his campaign earlier this year.

He stressed that he's a Christian and "so the fact that Gov. Palin is deeply religious, that's a good thing." He said poking around in her religion or saying it's wrong is "offensive" and he wants to have a debate about the issues.

"But don't give people some sort of religious litmus test because I don't want somebody to question my faith and I'm certainly not going to question somebody else's," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080910/ap_ ... a_lipstick
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:02 pm

Blown way out of proportion by the McCain camp. My Dad use to say this all the time about Modell when I was a kid. Good Lord, if only he was still alive, he would've got a big kick out of this one.
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:13 pm

I am a conservative, but personally, I do not believe Obama was referring to Palin with the "lipstick on a pig comment". I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. HOWEVER....

Dozens of the members at his cult gathering DID think that's what he was referring to. As soon as he said the word "lipstick", they all started whoopin it up.

The messiah needs to think before he speaks.
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Unread postby CP » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:16 pm

Here's the problem for Obama from this issue and why the coverage of it is not blowing it out of proportion and why people will care.

The phrase is absolutely common and its meaning is generally well-known. However, Obama should know to choose his words better.

The problem lies with using it and directing it impliedly at Palin after she had very publicly (and jokingly) called herself a pitbull with lipstick. While the phrase refers to ideas and inanimate objects in normal use, the "pig with lipstick" now has a personality with whom the analogy can be affixed. It's like an old logic problem...

Palin = hockey mom = pitbull with lipstick
pig with lipstick = still a pig = Palin

For a man who can have such eloquence when speaking, my take on it is that Obama is absolutely terrible when having to ad lib on his own or when trying to move outside of a prepared response or speech. This is supported by his poor performance without a teleprompter.

Personally, I don't care, but other people do, and when the Daily Kos and co. are already hitting below the belt and those attacks are being generally attributed to Obama by association, when he gets near the line, those associations are going to pull him across.
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:18 pm

well said, CP
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:36 pm

Well, just so you know, my wife is a hockey mom, and she was offended by Palin calling her a bitch. I guess it all depends what side of the aisle you sit on.
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Unread postby Ziner » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:42 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:Well, just so you know, my wife is a hockey mom, and she was offended by Palin calling her a bitch. I guess it all depends what side of the aisle you sit on.


I believe I called you out on another post for making shit up. Palin said Pitbull not bitch. Obama is done. I am calling it, DONE. He will not be able to live this down. One of the worst misspeaks of all time. I do not believe that is an overexaggeration. He had one attempt to explain himself when his crowd got rowdy that could have saved him. However regardless of exactly what he meant... and I really wouldnt put him by him to say that fully intending to mean that as a joke, it is still said. He is done. People in this country are too sensative about this stuff and it gets blown out of proportion, but this is going to one of the most memorable things about his campaign.

Besides you knew Obama was done when he keeps comparing himself to Palin. He is running against McCain in case he forgot... Obama got the rop-a-dope and just bounced off the ropes, he continues to stand but man is he woozy.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:11 am

WarAdmiral wrote:Blown way out of proportion by the McCain camp. My Dad use to say this all the time about Modell when I was a kid. Good Lord, if only he was still alive, he would've got a big kick out of this one.


It's an old saying but he's an idiot for saying it after Palin's lipstick remarks. I think he was trying to be funny. He wasn't calling Palin a pig but he was trying to say McCain and Palin were more of the same.

The problem is that a lot of people are going to take it that he was insinuating that Palin was a pig. Combine that with his treatment of Hillary and the middle finger he flicked at her, it's going to appear that Obama has little respect for women.

The man should be smart enough to realize saying something like that would be construed very negatively.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:16 am

Ziner wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:Well, just so you know, my wife is a hockey mom, and she was offended by Palin calling her a bitch. I guess it all depends what side of the aisle you sit on.


I believe I called you out on another post for making shit up. Palin said Pitbull not bitch. Obama is done. I am calling it, DONE. He will not be able to live this down. One of the worst misspeaks of all time. I do not believe that is an overexaggeration. He had one attempt to explain himself when his crowd got rowdy that could have saved him. However regardless of exactly what he meant... and I really wouldnt put him by him to say that fully intending to mean that as a joke, it is still said. He is done. People in this country are too sensative about this stuff and it gets blown out of proportion, but this is going to one of the most memorable things about his campaign.

Besides you knew Obama was done when he keeps comparing himself to Palin. He is running against McCain in case he forgot... Obama got the rop-a-dope and just bounced off the ropes, he continues to stand but man is he woozy.




My wife did say it, and I don't make shit up, unless I am being sarcastic (like starting a church). I don't think this here dittohead land, is worth me asking her to make an account and account for what she said, and admittedly she was joking. My son plays for the Leafs and his name hangs on banners at the Pond. Now if you aren't familiar with Geauga county, than you'll probably think I made that up also. I personally thing this was a stroke of genious by Obama, but it may have been just dumb luck.

One thing that has surprised me, is how McCain is always claiming sexism, when anybody does anything to critique his running mate. It is so bad, I almost believe Davis planted the vicious rumor in the first place. It would be sexist to treat Palin, any different than a man, and I hope people see the truth in that.
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Unread postby Stu » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:06 am

WarAdmiral wrote: One thing that has surprised me, is how McCain is always claiming sexism, when anybody does anything to critique his running mate. It is so bad, I almost believe Davis planted the vicious rumor in the first place. It would be sexist to treat Palin, any different than a man, and I hope people see the truth in that.


The only time I have heard the sexism claims is when they have been talking about how she wouldn't have the time to raise a family and be VP at the same time.

No one ever says that about a male politician. That's sexist.

I have not heard the sexist claims regarding any other comments by Obama, the Liberals in the Media, etc.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:35 am

My dad, a former goalie in high school, told me that his mother told him that the expression Palin used has been around for a long time. Neither one of us had ever heard it before.

Obama's an asshole. Just watching his interview with O'Reilly, where he continues to deny that in the 20 years he's known Jeremiah Wright, he never said any of the racist things he said. He also says that he and Ayers just met by chance while Ayers was working on some education shit in Chicago. Great man to be working on education, by the way. He goes to the Daily Coast conference despite being "offended" by things they've said.

Now, he attacks Palin because his campaign wasn't smart enough to pick Hillary Clinton so that they could win the election. Sour grapes won't get him anywhere, and like O'Reilly said, any time the Obama campaign attacks Sarah Palin, McCain gets another vote.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:17 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZd_Y_D-RaA[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhkq11UExcw[/youtube]

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/10/m ... -lipstick/

Punk and jackass.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:04 am

I will say that he punked your boy on this one. Maybe now the focus can get back on the issues that matter, and I'm sure Hillary was offended to be called a Republican. :lol:

Mike Huckabee just said the Lipstick Pig is no big deal. Hmmm, Mike must be a sexist, to not see it the way Davis does. Are they going to demand an apology from Mike?
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Unread postby CP » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:20 am

WarAdmiral wrote:I will say that he punked your boy on this one. Maybe now the focus can get back on the issues that matter, and I'm sure Hillary was offended to be called a Republican. :lol:

Mike Huckabee just said the Lipstick Pig is no big deal. Hmmm, Mike must be a sexist, to not see it the way Davis does. Are they going to demand an apology from Mike?


Huckabee really didn't say that. He, ironically, has a Clinton-esque ability to make people think he is agreeing with their premise, yet change their mind at the same time.

It doesn't work for people who have already made up their minds about it, like you or I, but for people who haven't, Huckabee does a good job of avoiding direct criticism from you while letting them come to his side of the fence.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:23 am

WarAdmiral wrote:I will say that he punked your boy on this one. Maybe now the focus can get back on the issues that matter, and I'm sure Hillary was offended to be called a Republican. :lol:

Mike Huckabee just said the Lipstick Pig is no big deal. Hmmm, Mike must be a sexist, to not see it the way Davis does. Are they going to demand an apology from Mike?


Obama hasnt debated the issues since day one... He has bullshitted his way to where he is and now that he is playing with the big boys he is falling apart at the hype seams

Bad News for you is Obama is D.O.N.E.

Good News for you is your taxes wont skyrocket

Stay positive :)
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:49 am

Ziner wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:I will say that he punked your boy on this one. Maybe now the focus can get back on the issues that matter, and I'm sure Hillary was offended to be called a Republican. :lol:

Mike Huckabee just said the Lipstick Pig is no big deal. Hmmm, Mike must be a sexist, to not see it the way Davis does. Are they going to demand an apology from Mike?


Obama hasnt debated the issues since day one... He has bullshitted his way to where he is and now that he is playing with the big boys he is falling apart at the hype seams

Bad News for you is Obama is D.O.N.E.

Good News for you is your taxes wont skyrocket

Stay positive :)



Far from falling apart. The Palin bounce is deflating, and the proof of her lies at the convention are beginning to creep through the MSM.

Obama, had a sweet opening to his speech today. He was just twisting the knife in, and he hit the sweet spot, and McCain is still repeating his acceptance speech. Republicans on TV are starting to look foolish still asking for an apology over the lipstick pig.

One of the pundits, was asking for an apology about the fish in newspaper. She was appalled that a reference to newspapers like this and said it was an insult to all who work in the newsprint media.

:P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:54 am

The only issue with Obama's sweet opening to his speech is that no one will hear about it because they will be talking about Obama calling Palin a pig and the analysis of that. He might as well take the next week off since all his is doing is burning campaign funds and no one will talk about any other that
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Unread postby stretch51 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:57 am

I'm still waiting for Obama to give me his change ideas.

All I've heard is that my taxes will go up, I'll get $300 in January, and that our national security will be threatened because we'll make friends with Iran.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:03 pm

stretch51 wrote:I'm still waiting for Obama to give me his change ideas.

All I've heard is that my taxes will go up, I'll get $300 in January, and that our national security will be threatened because we'll make friends with Iran.


+1 to this. You should post more often.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:10 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:Far from falling apart. The Palin bounce is deflating, and the proof of her lies at the convention are beginning to creep through the MSM.


Yes, that liberally biased media. Dare I ask what you will do in Olbermann's old time slot? I hate to think that you can't listen to that windbag spew his liberal bullshit everywhere.

Obama, had a sweet opening to his speech today. He was just twisting the knife in, and he hit the sweet spot, and McCain is still repeating his acceptance speech. Republicans on TV are starting to look foolish still asking for an apology over the lipstick pig.


Starting to look foolish to who? The liberal pundits? Well, of course. They know that the Dems cannot compete with Sarah Palin. When Joe Biden goes to the slaughterhouse on Oct. 2 in the VP debate, I hope he wears lipstick.

One of the pundits, was asking for an apology about the fish in newspaper. She was appalled that a reference to newspapers like this and said it was an insult to all who work in the newsprint media.


The newsprint media? They haven't been relevant in ten years. The Beacon just laid off 20 people in Akron. The PD's going to lay off 300, I hope Regina Brett is among them. No one gives a shit about newspapers anymore. Their liberal bias may be worse than CNN and MSNBC.


At this point, Barack's best move is to shut his mouth until the debate. But the socialist windbag that he is, that's impossible. So he can keep digging his own grave and I'll watch happily.

Obama cannot reach individual people. He only appeals to the masses. Lenin was good at that. So was Hitler. So was Trotsky. So was Mussolini. People are starting to realize that he has no real solutions for the individual. Obama and his camp are just one big hype machine. The American public is starting to see that, and they'll really see it in debates when Obama gives nothing of substance and drinking games are played across the country on the keywords of change and hope.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:21 pm

Turn the radio off and open your eyes. Liberal Media Bias !!!! I see your soaked full of the Limbaugh Kool Aid. More phony and baseless claims.
I know my candidate has faults, and has made mistakes, and don't mind the truth being told. Sometimes the truth hurts, but it needs told. Please don't be offended when the media uncovers the truth about your candidate, they are just doing their job and the American public needs to know. I suppose you feel the only fair media to the election is Fox News and CBS.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zAbeu3v3Wc[/youtube]
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:29 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:Turn the radio off and open your eyes. Liberal Media Bias !!!! I see your soaked full of the Limbaugh Kool Aid. More phony and baseless claims.
I know my candidate has faults, and has made mistakes, and don't mind the truth being told. Sometimes the truth hurts, but it needs told. Please don't be offended when the media uncovers the truth about your candidate, they are just doing their job and the American public needs to know. I suppose you feel the only fair media to the election is Fox News and CBS.


Spoken by someone who can't see the truth.

87% of the media vote liberal. That's from Gregg Jackson's Conservative Comebacks to Liberal Lies.

I don't even like Limbaugh. Broadly paint all conservatives with the same brush like you idealogue liberals do. Limbaugh was advocating voting for Hillary Clinton over John McCain. It was only until the Palin pick that he finally changed his tune.

Their job is to be unbiased. I understand every network has their own agenda but this year long fellatio of Barack Obama has gone on for way too long. They've done it by slandering all of his opponents, even Hillary, and by taking everything out of context. Now they're attacking Palin, because of frustration that McCain thought outside the box for his pick, while Obama completely overlooked the obvious pick.

But hey, what do I care if you keep Wolf Blitzer and Keith Olbermann's voices in the back of your head telling you which way to vote?
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:42 pm

stretch51 wrote:I'm still waiting for Obama to give me his change ideas.

All I've heard is that my taxes will go up, I'll get $300 in January, and that our national security will be threatened because we'll make friends with Iran.


Image


Decide on your own, if your taxes are going up. Lots needs to be debated and discussed by both candidates on issues like this and others, instead of playing partisan mudslinging.

On the issue of Iran, one needs to look at what has feed Iran's hate for us. What we did In 1953 feeds what has transpired over the past 50 years and our relations with them. Starting a war with them is the last thing we need to do. They as a nation have plenty of reason to burn our flags and call us the great Satan. This also needs debated and talked about, before fueling the fire of hate that already exists.

Here is a program that Bill Moyers produced over 20 years ago. There is some history on Iran, and is good watch for those that weren't old enough to watch the evening news back in 1979. The final conclusions by Bill are quite riveting, at least to me they are.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sstDwKTCpM[/youtube]
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:48 pm

Thank you for the graph that shows me that Barack Obama will completely destroy small business. Oh, and investment. Oh, and increase unemployment.

That's just income tax, too. How about the corporate profits tax? The payroll tax?


And why should poor people be exempt from taxes? Just because they're poor? What makes that fair? Income redistribution is a terrible view of economics.

Those poor people also spend the most on alcohol, tobacco, and the lottery. We'll just give them more money to waste. Don't forget more money for welfare!

It's time to just bring the Fair Tax in to society. Those pissing and moaning about that should realize that the wealthier people will be buying more expensive things and paying more in taxes anyway.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:Thank you for the graph that shows me that Barack Obama will completely destroy small business. Oh, and investment. Oh, and increase unemployment.

That's just income tax, too. How about the corporate profits tax? The payroll tax?


And why should poor people be exempt from taxes? Just because they're poor? What makes that fair? Income redistribution is a terrible view of economics.

Those poor people also spend the most on alcohol, tobacco, and the lottery. We'll just give them more money to waste. Don't forget more money for welfare!

It's time to just bring the Fair Tax in to society. Those pissing and moaning about that should realize that the wealthier people will be buying more expensive things and paying more in taxes anyway.


Your welcome, and I am not against a fair tax. I would need to see more info and debate on it, to fall in love with it.

Poor people welfare>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>corporate welfare
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:56 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:
stretch51 wrote:I'm still waiting for Obama to give me his change ideas.

All I've heard is that my taxes will go up, I'll get $300 in January, and that our national security will be threatened because we'll make friends with Iran.


Image


Decide on your own, if your taxes are going up. Lots needs to be debated and discussed by both candidates on issues like this and others, instead of playing partisan mudslinging.

On the issue of Iran, one needs to look at what has feed Iran's hate for us. What we did In 1953 feeds what has transpired over the past 50 years and our relations with them. Starting a war with them is the last thing we need to do. They as a nation have plenty of reason to burn our flags and call us the great Satan. This also needs debated and talked about, before fueling the fire of hate that already exists.

Here is a program that Bill Moyers produced over 20 years ago. There is some history on Iran, and is good watch for those that weren't old enough to watch the evening news back in 1979. The final conclusions by Bill are quite riveting, at least to me they are.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sstDwKTCpM[/youtube]


Why do liberals get boners when others pay taxes? The people at the bottom of that bracket ALREADY DONT PAY FREAKING TAXES. That is called additional welfare not tax cuts. When they start paying taxes and stop soaking up all of my hard earned money they can get a tax break. Until then they will have to settle for Welfare, Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and the other laundry list of bullshit entitlement programs given to people. Explain to me why democrats demand that the stimulus check needed to go to low income people who dont pay taxes? So wait let me get this straight people who dont pay taxes and get everything given to them with out any incentive to better themselves get extra money so the dems can talk about how they looked out for them. If they looked out for them they would get rid of all that shit and make their lazy asses do some work. And before you paint me with a broad brush there is a need for SOME of that for SOME people and I dont have an issue with helping people of need. But 4 generations of welfare is not a need. You want to know what else. That doesnt change my opinion at all because in the tax bracket that I will be in when I get married this year I will get a higher tax break from McCain and I by no means am well off... we pay more in student loans a month than those wastes of life who sit on welfare for generations get. So why should they get handed money while I work my ass off to pay off my student loans.

Here is Chicago the jackass democratic mayor and govenor decided to earn more votes all senior citizens and low income people get to ride the transit system for free, now my fare is goign to increase. How the hell is that fair. I am sick and fucking tired of handing out my money to worthless broke programs.

And on the topic of Iran didnt Obama say it is just a small country of little threat.

Ok I will take a deep breathe now... hope that wasnt too personal, I apologize if it is... just getting a little fired up.... :x :mad: :-x
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:03 pm

Agreed completely Ziner. There are exceptions in every bracket, but way too often, people just mooch off the system because they can. It's too easy to get welfare. WIC is fine. Welfare is not fine. The system needs to be reformed, harder to get, and harder to stay on.

I don't see how it's fair to give these people a free pass.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:08 pm

Not offended at all, and I appreciate your passion. I would rather learn about how others think and why. It shows where we may disagree, but I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I want welfare decreased on both ends of the spectrum, but we can't let people starve and companies go under that provide necessary services and goods. It needs addressed and it really hasn't been addressed by the current administration and that includes the current congress and senate.

If Obama said that, he is wrong, or it was another gaffe.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:31 pm

I was in a hurry so I couldnt complete all of my thoughts (hard to believe isnt it).

However, has anyone every been on unemployment? My fiance's father is on it. He gets 75% of his pay for the past 6 months or so, and that obviously makes the bills a bit tight. Can you tell me why in the world he can not go out and find another job earning money? Why let him sit at home and not work when he wants to? That is a seriously problem with a government program. Here take your 75% if you go out and try to get 100% or 125% (because it isnt your fault you were laid off) we are goign to take away your 75%. Unreal. Now I am not sure of the exact answer for all of this to keep people from abusing it. However it shouldnt be that difficult for someone to do... Or as Obama said this answer is above my paygrade :lol:
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Unread postby waborat » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:40 pm

Just received this email from my accountant:

A president's pension currently is $191,300 per year, until he is 80
years old. Assuming the next president lives to age 80. Sen. McCain
would receive ZERO pension as he would reach 80 at the end of two terms
as president. Sen. Obama would be retired for 26 years after two terms
and would receive $4,973,800 in pension. Therefore it would certainly
make economic sense to elect McCain in November. How's that for
non-partisan thinking.

:idea:
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:03 pm

Ziner wrote:I was in a hurry so I couldnt complete all of my thoughts (hard to believe isnt it).

However, has anyone every been on unemployment? My fiance's father is on it. He gets 75% of his pay for the past 6 months or so, and that obviously makes the bills a bit tight. Can you tell me why in the world he can not go out and find another job earning money? Why let him sit at home and not work when he wants to? That is a seriously problem with a government program. Here take your 75% if you go out and try to get 100% or 125% (because it isnt your fault you were laid off) we are goign to take away your 75%. Unreal. Now I am not sure of the exact answer for all of this to keep people from abusing it. However it shouldnt be that difficult for someone to do... Or as Obama said this answer is above my paygrade :lol:


So you think Unemployment compensation program should be abolished? Every time I have been on it, I had to apply and show proof that I was looking for work. I probably should just say I disagree with your opinion, and be done with it.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:16 pm

delete
Last edited by Ziner on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:20 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:
Ziner wrote:I was in a hurry so I couldnt complete all of my thoughts (hard to believe isnt it).

However, has anyone every been on unemployment? My fiance's father is on it. He gets 75% of his pay for the past 6 months or so, and that obviously makes the bills a bit tight. Can you tell me why in the world he can not go out and find another job earning money? Why let him sit at home and not work when he wants to? That is a seriously problem with a government program. Here take your 75% if you go out and try to get 100% or 125% (because it isnt your fault you were laid off) we are goign to take away your 75%. Unreal. Now I am not sure of the exact answer for all of this to keep people from abusing it. However it shouldnt be that difficult for someone to do... Or as Obama said this answer is above my paygrade :lol:


So you think Unemployment compensation program should be abolished? Every time I have been on it, I had to apply and show proof that I was looking for work. I probably should just say I disagree with your opinion, and be done with it.


No not at all am I saying it should be abolished. Do I wish there were a way not to make it a gov't program and let the really large corporations fund their own (he works for GE)... however once again this is over my paygrade on how you could do it.

My point is with the ridiculous government run programs. When the government runs them they become bogged down and inefficent. What I am saying is why cant he go out and work when he WANTS to to earn more money. In this case he gets 75% of his money and wants to go out and work hard to get more. However because of the system he cant. But yet we hand out money to people hand over fist who dont want to work. My issue is helping people who dont want to help themselves. I am all for helping those who want to help themselves. How do families live generations on welfare? there is no incentive to get off... what about a sliding scale that eventually goes away after a certain time limit.

The American dream has gone from setting goals and go out to achieve them and america will get out of your way. To now dont dream at all Obama, Clinton, and Pelosi will take care of, just remember them come November.

And before you think I am just harping on Dems, the biggest disappointment in Dubya for me is his utter failure to not privatize social security. I am young, give me my money and I will take care of myself when I become 65. I can invest it a hell of alot better than the US government. Privatization was one of my top 3 issues in 2000 and 2004, and he sucked at it.

So you think Unemployment compensation program should be abolished? Every time I have been on it, I had to apply and show proof that I was looking for work. I probably should just say I disagree with your opinion, and be done with it.
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Unread postby waborat » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:26 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:
Ziner wrote:I was in a hurry so I couldnt complete all of my thoughts (hard to believe isnt it).

However, has anyone every been on unemployment? My fiance's father is on it. He gets 75% of his pay for the past 6 months or so, and that obviously makes the bills a bit tight. Can you tell me why in the world he can not go out and find another job earning money? Why let him sit at home and not work when he wants to? That is a seriously problem with a government program. Here take your 75% if you go out and try to get 100% or 125% (because it isnt your fault you were laid off) we are goign to take away your 75%. Unreal. Now I am not sure of the exact answer for all of this to keep people from abusing it. However it shouldnt be that difficult for someone to do... Or as Obama said this answer is above my paygrade :lol:


So you think Unemployment compensation program should be abolished? Every time I have been on it, I had to apply and show proof that I was looking for work. I probably should just say I disagree with your opinion, and be done with it.


All these people do is go through the want ads or the phone book and write down 3 places that they looked for work at and then they get their money...everybody knows that they didn't apply or interview in person and no one checks it out
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:28 pm

Unrelated topic to the thread, but why cant we work some sort of system that allows for welfare and unemployment for a certain amount of time say 1 year for welfare (longer perhaps for unemployment) or something. And after that you basically get student loans for college or some sort of new job training. You get money to get through school/training and after that if you need it again tough shit (in most cases). 99.99% of people when motivated properly will work, however right now 10-15% arent motivated and are content sitting on their ass
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:52 pm

Now Obama says that he was kinda referring to Palin. He appears on Letterman tonight and clarified the statement. The lipstick symbolized Palin and McCain was the pig.

That's right, Obama now says that former POW John McCain is a pig. Nice.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... ml?showall

And Joe Biden admits that Hillary would've been a better VP choice than him.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVy2yh28eig[/youtube]

New polls show McCain solidifying in the Red states and picking up ground in previous blue states.

Obama is losing money daily and needs to raise $100M a month from now until November or his campaign will go bankrupt.

The problem? He can't campaign all the time like McCain can. He's got to do all the fundraising stuff. He'd hoped he'd have enough cash on hand now to avoid that but the donors aren't wanting to give to him lately.

Obama's speech this morning to try to cover his butt was hilarious. He's the one who's talking about it and he's clearly panicked.

He can't talk about change anyways because he's racked up over $750M in earmarks. His running mate admits that he wasn't the best choice. Obama's kids are in private school while Palin's are in the public system, so who's going to fight harder to fix education?

This guy is flailing around and just embarrassing himself more and more every day. Definitely the least prepared in recent memory to run for office and maybe the biggest idiot to ever run.

So either Palin or McCain is a pig. He then whines about them using his own slander against him all the while taking McCain's "100 years in Iraq" and his "$5 million rich" remark completely out of context. This guy has the audacity to complain when he started distorting things weeks ago. He's nothing but a whiny jackass that can't take any criticism and can't deal with his mistakes.

Bush had trouble admitting mistakes too. Obama is much closer to Bush in that regard than McCain.

You want more poor decisions then vote Obama.

Obama for Village Idiot. He's definitely qualified. Maybe overqualified.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:03 pm

Nice clip Mac.... isnt it amazing that you can find better news on Youtube than CNN? The only clip better than that one is the one where Biden triess to get PA state senator to stand up and looks like a fool. I am not saying he is mean to the guy or should have known, but it is just funny... he actually says "can you tell I am new"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRV5Y1JCGRI[/youtube]

Obama/Biden have how many stupid or funny moments and they have only been together for 3 weeks... I cant believe we get to watch them self destruct for 8 more...
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:10 pm

Sitcoms have been a dying breed for the past several years on TV. The good news is after the Obama historic loss that Obama and Biden could revive sitcoms with a new unscripted take on The Odd Couple. It would be one of the funniest shows ever as these two guys stumble over themselves.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:22 pm

The Dems are panicking.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13357.html

They are very worried and McCain has been gaining in the battleground states. Those polls are especially troubling to them because they tend to trail national polling by about two weeks. Palin hasn't fully kicked in in those state polls nor has the GOP Convention. McCain made gains in the states during the DNC.

Obama's strategy to try to win all the electoral votes looks like it has stretched him horribly thin. His arrogance caused him to focus on the wrong strategy just as he would if President. If he can't figure out how to run a campaign then how can he run a country?
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:37 pm

"Stand up, Chuck!!!"

what an idiot.

"Chuck" is Chuck Graham, state senator from Missouri I believe. He is bound to a wheelchair from an auto accident when he was a teenager.
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Unread postby mikebrownz26 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:04 pm

Obama simply has no idea what to say when there isn't a teleprompter in front of him.

I'm looking forward to the debates when he will actually be forced to explain how he plans on paying for his "changes".
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:08 pm

idoctribefan wrote:"Stand up, Chuck!!!"

what an idiot.

"Chuck" is Chuck Graham, state senator from Missouri I believe. He is bound to a wheelchair from an auto accident when he was a teenager.


Obviously, the Democrats are above doing pre-campaign research. That said,

"STAND UP CHUCK!"

I have to admit that if he had stood up I'd vote for Obama/Biden, the ticket of miracles.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:12 pm

Bad, bad couple weeks for Obama.

The conventions were a disaster for the Dems. Theirs had no notable moments, and any potential bounce was destroyed by the brilliant selection of Palin as McCain's VP the next morning. Repub convention was the most effective convention I've seen in my life.

Obama has been reeling since. The lipstick statement was just dumb, especially in the wake of how well recieved Palin has been. And the interview with O'Reilly was a calculated risk that ended up making him look like an idiot.

This election is far from over. I expect Obama to be formidable in the debates behind podiums. And those debates have a big impact.

But McCain has gone from a longshot to a prohibitive favorite in less than two weeks time.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:57 pm

Swerb wrote:Bad, bad couple weeks for Obama.

The conventions were a disaster for the Dems. Theirs had no notable moments, and any potential bounce was destroyed by the brilliant selection of Palin as McCain's VP the next morning. Repub convention was the most effective convention I've seen in my life.

Obama has been reeling since. The lipstick statement was just dumb, especially in the wake of how well recieved Palin has been. And the interview with O'Reilly was a calculated risk that ended up making him look like an idiot.

This election is far from over. I expect Obama to be formidable in the debates behind podiums. And those debates have a big impact.

But McCain has gone from a longshot to a prohibitive favorite in less than two weeks time.


It's amazing how different things are right now for McCain and the GOP as a whole. Generic ballots show Republicans making huge gains behind a new McCain/Palin branded Republicanism that wants to focus on reform once more.

And Obama's camp has been going after Palin despite saying a week ago that they'd basically ignore her. They know how much damage that pick has inflicted. It's still early, but I can't think of another VP nomination that has had this much of an effect.

You're right, we've still got a long way to go. I'm not as concerned about the debates. They do matter, but Obama behind a podium in an unscripted debate is not as good as an Obama with a teleprompter - and even that hasn't been as good lately. Obama has had to move to the center and calm down the rhetoric a bit in order to attract the more likely voters. Those college kids aren't reliable. They can help with caucuses in January but they often won't show up in droves in November.

McCain must still be well prepared for the debates and must take it to Obama there on his massive new spending proposals, his massive new taxes (and his decision now to wait a while on those, acknowledging it would hurt the economy), his pork barrel spending habits, and his nearly invisible list of accomplishments. The new ad attacking him for voting for Sex Ed for Kindergartners was quite good and an accurate ad. We have audio and video of Barack advocating it and I think most of the population thinks it may be a bit to early to talk to five year olds about sex.

McCain has the record of trying to bring some change and reach across the aisle. Palin does too. Obama and Biden don't. The only things the Obama camp have been able to bring out are bills that were passed nearly unanimously in the Senate. That's no proof of bipartisan work. I don't agree with all of McCain's bipartisan work, but most that follow politics slightly know McCain has a rep for reaching out his hand.

Nice article over at RCP.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horser ... heels.html

Ultimately, I'm not a huge believer in the importance of "winning" news cycles. I do think, however, that the battle for the news cycle is an exhibition of a campaign's ability to move its message. And it has become clear that the McCain campaign is better at this. This "lipstick on a pig" incident will probably not affect a single vote - but it shows that the McCain campaign is ready and able to defend any real gains it might have made among white women. Once again, it's doing a better job getting its message across.

Nobody would have predicted this on June 3rd. That was the day Obama boldly stood in the Xcel Energy Center and proclaimed an exciting new moment in American politics. Meanwhile McCain, sweating profusely, stood in front of a green screen and gave a rambling, disjointed speech. The contrast in messages was stark. Three months later, it's just as stark - but now it's Obama that's sweating and McCain that's exciting. What a turnaround.


It's amazing that McCain has just been so invigorated. I agree that the RNC was amazing and the most effective and striking convention I've ever seen. I didn't expect McCain to give a good speech and he did, especially at the end when chills went up and down my spine as he called for personal responsibility and asked us to fight with him. That was far more effective than Obama's similar pleas in the past.

Funny that so much of this campaign pivots on St. Paul, MN. Obama closed out his win there in June officially and looked to be a big time front runner. McCain then stole the momentum from him there and the GOP may have also stolen momentum from the Dems.

These polls that we're seeing now are not including turnout models. This is a huge component. Prior to Palin and the RNC, GOP core voters were unenthused and disheartened. Now they are the opposite. If Obama keeps reeling then we could see the Dems become disheartened. There's also still the potential that the GOP could force a drilling showdown in Congress that could demoralize the Dems even more and further embolden core GOP voters. This could effect turnout and actually cause the Dem base to not show up as heavily.

Things could be very interesting in November. The Florida GOP is looking at turnout models down here and across the country right now and we like what we're seeing. Money is pouring into the RNC and GOP Senatorial and House candidates are also benefiting. We're seeing some promising numbers from Democrat strongholds due to possible suppressed turnout AND blue collar Dems possibly abandoning them. The newest data suggests that more and more voters are identifying the Dems as obstructionists to real reform since the RNC - and these aren't just Republicans.

I think that McCain successfully threw the "change" argument right back in their faces. People are well aware of how little the current Congress has done. Expect to hear a lot more about it being the least accomplished Congress in our history - and it is. The GOP is about to go on the offensive against the Congress and go with the "A Vote for a Democrat is a vote to keep Reid and Pelosi in power" mantra. Data suggests that this resonates, especially with independents.

Why?

Well, few would want to trust Bush with a GOP majority because he did not keep them in check. Voters seem to feel differently about both McCain and Palin. They feel that the GOP would better assist reform with them but that they can keep the GOP in line and stop them from going crazy like they did under Bush.

Presidential elections often mean coattails and McCain might have some this time around.

Amazing how depressed I was when Romney left the race. I was bitter for a few days and, frankly, despairing a bit. For all my desire for Romney to win earlier, this is better. McCain is our best chance this year and his pick of Palin is the most sublime and thrilling political move I've ever seen. I was resigned to Pawlenty and not overly energized the night before, but then the news leaked about Palin and my heart leapt in my chest. The future of the GOP and the country now seems far more secure and I do believe we can make some real changes in the future, putting the United States back on the road to small government, more freedom, and greater individual responsibility.

I pray that it lasts.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:57 pm

jfiling wrote:
idoctribefan wrote:"Stand up, Chuck!!!"

what an idiot.

"Chuck" is Chuck Graham, state senator from Missouri I believe. He is bound to a wheelchair from an auto accident when he was a teenager.


Obviously, the Democrats are above doing pre-campaign research. That said,

"STAND UP CHUCK!"

I have to admit that if he had stood up I'd vote for Obama/Biden, the ticket of miracles.


LOL I can not stop laughing when i watch this video "Stand up Chuck" is just too damn funny
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:01 pm

jfiling wrote:
Obviously, the Democrats are above doing pre-campaign research. That said,

"STAND UP CHUCK!"

I have to admit that if he had stood up I'd vote for Obama/Biden, the ticket of miracles.


Then the "Jesus was a community organizer" stuff might have some merit too.

I can see Obama and Biden staging a Benny Hinn or Earnest Angely type of healing session just to get your vote. Their campaign has largely been smoke and mirrors anyways, so not too much of a stretch.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:05 am

This country of mine is whacked.
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Unread postby Ziner » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:48 am

WarAdmiral wrote:This country of mine is whacked.


Stand up WarAdmiral... oh... God love ya what am I talking about...
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:15 pm

My issue is helping people who dont want to help themselves. I am all for helping those who want to help themselves. How do families live generations on welfare? there is no incentive to get off... what about a sliding scale that eventually goes away after a certain time limit.


Here you have more in common with the modern Democratic party than you think you do...

The American dream has gone from setting goals and go out to achieve them and america will get out of your way. To now dont dream at all Obama, Clinton, and Pelosi will take care of, just remember them come November.


... unless you're arguing against Right-Wing Radio Liberal Boogeymen. That's not what the Dems are saying these days at all.

And before you think I am just harping on Dems, the biggest disappointment in Dubya for me is his utter failure to not privatize social security. I am young, give me my money and I will take care of myself when I become 65. I can invest it a hell of alot better than the US government.


Well, perhaps you can, but what about those Americans that don't have the time or intelligence to worry about investment? What happens if your investment is tied up in Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers?
Last edited by Madre Hill, Superstar on Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:21 pm

Swerb wrote:The lipstick statement was just dumb, especially in the wake of how well recieved Palin has been.


Dammit, I'll say it again: I know you're smarter than this.

But McCain has gone from a longshot to a prohibitive favorite in less than two weeks time.


Convention bounce. Virtual unknown VP pick that's going through the hype cycle. Economy heading further south each day. I wouldn't go running to Intrade just yet.
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