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The Palin Factor

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The Palin Factor

Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:26 am

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This helps McCain. Didn't think he'd have the balls to do it, but it's a stroke of genius.

Clearly, she will help bring over some of the Hillary supporters. Remind people that McCain is much more of a common sense centrist than the right wing Bush clone Obama is smartly painting him as. Gives some youth, vibrance, and excitement to the ticket ... which McCain needs. Dude looks about 110 years old and is a very choppy speaker. She's a rising star in the party, and one that represents little of the characteristics of the Bush/Cheney ticket so much of the country is disenfranchised with right now. Anti abortion, which will appease the far right. Fiscal conservative, strong on energy, which is a huge issue right now. Mother of five, approval ratings through the roof throughout her political career.

Thought Biden was an excellent choice by Obama. Think this is even a better choice by McCain.

Get Romney on board for economic policy, Petraeus as Secretary of Defense, and McCain (who I thought had no chance a month ago, shit three days ago) will have a very good chance to win the Presidency in October ... provided the situation in Iraq doesn't deteriorate.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:32 am

Perfect choice, and the more I read the more I like. She is the exact type of person I would want as President (obviously she needs foreign policy experience though). I am reading through her bio, and more importantly her accomplishments. She goes hard on ethics, gets shit done and doesnt take shit from anyone. She can relate to the common person, has children, isnt a washington insider, seems to win elections with less lobbyist support and money (congrats Alaska).

All and all I wish I would have read up on her a while ago, I would have been all about her. McCain's first choice major choice was not only a home run but a grand slam with a curtain call. This actually just got me excited about voting for McCain. And to think all along I never really ever cared about the VP. This lady will be president someday.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:35 am

Clipped from her personal bio (Wiki)...

Family and personal background
Palin was born in Sandpoint, Idaho, the daughter of Charles and Sally (Sheeran) Heath.[4] Her family moved to Alaska when she was an infant.[5] Charles Heath was a science teacher and track coach.[5] The Heaths were avid outdoors enthusiasts; Sarah and her father would sometimes wake at 3 a.m. to hunt moose before school, and the family would regularly run 5k and 10k races.[5]

Palin was the point guard and captain for the Wasilla High School Warriors, in Wasilla, Alaska, when they won the Alaska small-school basketball championship in 1982; she earned the nickname "Sarah Barracuda" because of her intense play.[5] She played the championship game despite a stress fracture in her ankle, hitting a critical free throw in the last seconds.[5] Palin, who was also the head of the school Fellowship of Christian Athletes, would lead the team in prayer before games.[5]

In 1984, after winning the Miss Wasilla contest earlier that year, Palin finished second in the Miss Alaska beauty pageant which won her a scholarship to help pay her way through college.[5] In the Wasilla pageant, she played the flute and also won Miss Congeniality.

Palin holds a bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Idaho where she also minored in politics.

Her husband, Todd, is a Native Yup'ik Eskimo.[5] Outside the fishing season, Todd works for BP at an oil field on the North Slope[6] and is a champion snowmobiler, winning the 2000-mile "Iron Dog" race four times.[5] The two eloped shortly after Palin graduated college; when they learned they needed witnesses for the civil ceremony, they recruited two residents from the old-age home down the street.[5] The Palin family lives in Wasilla, about 40 miles (64 km) north of Anchorage.[7]

She briefly worked as a sports reporter for local Anchorage television stations while also working as a commercial fisherman with her husband, Todd, her high school sweetheart.[5] One summer when she was working on Todd's fishing boat, the boat collided with a tender while she was holding onto the railing; Palin broke several fingers.[5]

On September 11, 2007, the Palins' eighteen-year-old son Track, eldest of five, joined the Army.[7] He now serves in an infantry brigade and will be deployed to Iraq in September 2008. She also has three daughters: Bristol, 17, Willow, 13, and Piper, 7.[8] On April 18, 2008, Palin gave birth to her second son, Trig Paxson Van Palin, who has Down syndrome.[9] She returned to the office three days after giving birth.[10] Palin refused to let the results of prenatal genetic testing change her decision to have the baby. "I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection," Palin said. "Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?"[10]

Details of Palin's personal life have contributed to her political image. She hunts, eats moose hamburger, ice fishes, rides snowmobiles, and owns a float plane.[11][12] Palin holds a lifetime membership with the National Rifle Association. She admits that she used marijuana when it was legal in Alaska, but says that she did not like it.[13]
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:37 am

Bottom line, after 16 years of the Bush family, and McCain being so old and lumped in with the Bushes due to his stance on the war ... never has the Republican Party needed fresh faces more.

Shit, just look at the cats they ran in the primary. McCain won. Nuff said.

Well liked. Strong on the imortant election issues, like energy, fiscal policy, and ethics. And no voting record to pick apart.

Brilliant, ballsy pick.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:40 am

They're interviewing Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz(D) on MSNBC right now.......... what a monumental BITCH. I mean this chick is taking cheap shots at everyone from McCain on down to the mailcarrier in Fairbanks. Geez, she is lights out pissed off right now.

ETA - I just found her (Schultz's) photo online, and I realize now why she is pissed. Woof.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:43 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:ETA - I just found her (Schultz's) photo online, and I realize now why she is pissed. Woof.


Yeah Schultz definetely fell out of the ugly tree... Palin btw has damn nice legs
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:48 am

Sarah Palin, I suggested her a few days ago on another thread. EXCELLENT PICK by McCain. And everyone on MSNBC says it's a terrible pick, which makes me think that it's EVEN BETTER than I think it is.

I sure hope she knows what she's getting into. MSNBC, CNN, New York Times and all the rest of print media will really be after her and her family.
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Unread postby buckeye319 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:53 am

It's a very ballsy move, one that could have huge payoffs or be a disaster.
He's definitely going for the Clinton Democrats, but I thought playing the inexperience card worked well for McCain. Now it's gonna be tough to do that with her being the veep pick of a 72 year old with some health issues. It should help hinder Biden from his all out attacks, because he'd come off looking like a dick going after a hot (relatively) young woman.

This election year is fascinating.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:59 am

Obama's camp has got to be very careful if they attack Palin. Reagan's camp was very careful when Bush debated Ferraro in 84 to be sure that the debate ended up looking like a draw. They didn't want to upset the female population.

Thing is, I don't think Biden could ever pull that off. I wouldn't be surprised if he gaffes majorly in debate. His major attack on her witll be foreign policy. Her response should be this:

"I have as much foreign policy experience as the Democratic nominee for President and more executive experience than he does."

She's the only governor to be found between the two tickets and the Democrat ticket completely lacks much, if any, executive experience. McCain commanded an airwing in the Navy. Palin has been governor, mayor, city manager, etc. Biden and Obama don't have any real executive experience. The closest thing Obama has was running a foundation with terrorist Bill Ayers that pissed away millions in Federal grants and ended up doing nothing with it.

Little to no coverage on Obama's speech. The unconventional choice has robbed Obama of a post convention glow and will likely dominate the weekend news cycle.
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Unread postby Stu » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:02 pm

did Obama have a speech last night? I can't recall.

well played McCain, nobody GAF about Obama's speech anymore.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:02 pm

Any Obama supporters out there? I dont want to start fights or anything, I just want to hear your opinion on the pick. I think this is crushing, take out the knees crushing to Obama. Change? McCain picks a non washingtonian and Obama picks a old washington hack. Experience? she is only a VP and has actually ran a state. Obama is supposed to be Prez on less of a record?

Does this scare any of you Obama supporters out there? it is fine if it doesnt but as someone voting for McCain I would think this makes you nervous
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:10 pm

I love how Obama released a statement saying this is a bad pick because she has no foreign policy experience.

Ah, the pot calls the kettle black.
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Unread postby Stu » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:11 pm

Palin does 3 amazing things for the republican ticket this year.

1. She brings in women moderates, who may have been leaning towards Obama because of Hilary's endorsement.

2. She brings in catholic moderates, thanks to her strong pro-life stance.

3. She brings in conservatives who are not fans of McCain (such as myself).

For the first time since McCain won the nomination, I think Obama actually has a chance of losing.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:28 pm

Stu wrote:3. She brings in conservatives who are not fans of McCain (such as myself).



Bingo, me too... The jackass in the desk next to me listens to Air America all day long (yes it is brutal). They are hammering her for no experience. That is the funniest shit I have ever heard of. Again for the 400th time, what experience does Obama have doing anything besides running for office?
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Unread postby buckeye319 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:46 pm

Ziner, I'll probably vote for Obama, but let me first saying I'm not nervous about this election. Definitely don't want to get into a "why vote for Obama" or "why vote for McCain" here, so I'll stick just to political aspect of the pick.

I don't think its crushing for Obama by any stretch, though like I said above, I think it could pay huge dividends for McCain. Very bold, very risky is the way I see it.

There's a lot of intriguing things about her as politician and her being a woman from outside DC should help in some ways. She will definitely bring excitement and energy to a much needed campaign. I am not sure however if her time running Alaska for less than two years will help her much in her argument for experience. But what it will do is allow her to bring in the women/independent vote, while not allowing the Dems to attack on inexperience for the most part. However, her lack of experience on foreign policy will be brought up - and there will be some attack angles that we're not thinking of right now. How that plays out on the national stage is anybody's guess

I also think it will stop Biden from going full go vs her in the debates, which is a big plus for Republicans. I wholeheartedly agree with Mac in that regard. And not letting Biden go nuts (or letting him go nuts and gaffing) could be very important. I don't think Biden is a Washington hack at all, and that's why muzzling him is a good idea if you're a Republican. And the media will not be allowed to go after her the way they did with Clinton, in my opinion. My guess is she's not enough of politician in America's eyes yet to attack or to even press her to hard without looking like an overbearing prick (in a debate, if your Brian Williams or whoever).

Also if it stems Obama's jump after the speech last night, then that is a big plus for Republicans.

In the end though, it's entirely unclear how this will work with the working class Dems or "Clinton Democrats" that they're so obviously going after. Picking a woman VP comes with enormous upside and risk, if I can bring out my inner-Mel Kiper. Some here may be able to rationalize her pick in terms of taking over as commander-in-chief, but I don't know how well it will go over for the undecided voter.

But I am shocked by it because the risk/reward seem so great that the McCain camp was aware of something that probably bothered them. Usually, the veep pick is "safe", and politically speaking, I would've thought that going into the Republican convention with great poll numbers at this point would've gone with a Pawlenty or something like that. But I guess this election is hinging on the Clinton voters, so he had to do something.

So in the end, I see the upside but I also see a lot of risk. Very intriguing in any case though
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Unread postby jack_tors » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:50 pm

Stu wrote:Palin does 3 amazing things for the republican ticket this year.

1. She brings in women moderates, who may have been leaning towards Obama because of Hilary's endorsement.

2. She brings in catholic moderates, thanks to her strong pro-life stance.

3. She brings in conservatives who are not fans of McCain (such as myself).

For the first time since McCain won the nomination, I think Obama actually has a chance of losing.



You nailed it. This was a good choice for McCain. It will help bring in some of the Independents and those Democrats who supported Clinton but cant support Obama.

Her background of being open to discussions with the gay and lesbian crowd wont be liked by the far right but in the end they will throw their choice behind McCain because if they dont they get a liberal, black democrat.

With this pick, he gains more independents, a few democrats and doesnt alienate his base. I cannot see Obama winning this election without some sort of massive screw up by the McCain camp. This coming from someone who is absolutely not a fan of McCain. (I am not an Obama fan either)
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:56 pm

Yeah, the hidden beauty of the choice of Palin is that her one percieved weakness, inexperience and lack of foreign policy background, is also the biggest weakness of Obama.

Obama camp has to be very careful about attacks on Palin. Not only will it alienate women, but it will continue to bring his biggest flaw to the forefront.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:57 pm

buckeye319 wrote:Ziner, I'll probably vote for Obama, but let me first saying I'm not nervous about this election. Definitely don't want to get into a "why vote for Obama" or "why vote for McCain" here, so I'll stick just to political aspect of the pick.

I don't think its crushing for Obama by any stretch, though like I said above, I think it could pay huge dividends for McCain. Very bold, very risky is the way I see it.

There's a lot of intriguing things about her as politician and her being a woman from outside DC should help in some ways. She will definitely bring excitement and energy to a much needed campaign. I am not sure however if her time running Alaska for less than two years will help her much in her argument for experience. But what it will do is allow her to bring in the women/independent vote, while not allowing the Dems to attack on inexperience for the most part. However, her lack of experience on foreign policy will be brought up - and there will be some attack angles that we're not thinking of right now. How that plays out on the national stage is anybody's guess

I also think it will stop Biden from going full go vs her in the debates, which is a big plus for Republicans. I wholeheartedly agree with Mac in that regard. And not letting Biden go nuts (or letting him go nuts and gaffing) could be very important. I don't think Biden is a Washington hack at all, and that's why muzzling him is a good idea if you're a Republican. And the media will not be allowed to go after her the way they did with Clinton, in my opinion. My guess is she's not enough of politician in America's eyes yet to attack or to even press her to hard without looking like an overbearing prick (in a debate, if your Brian Williams or whoever).

Also if it stems Obama's jump after the speech last night, then that is a big plus for Republicans.

In the end though, it's entirely unclear how this will work with the working class Dems or "Clinton Democrats" that they're so obviously going after. Picking a woman VP comes with enormous upside and risk, if I can bring out my inner-Mel Kiper. Some here may be able to rationalize her pick in terms of taking over as commander-in-chief, but I don't know how well it will go over for the undecided voter.

But I am shocked by it because the risk/reward seem so great that the McCain camp was aware of something that probably bothered them. Usually, the veep pick is "safe", and politically speaking, I would've thought that going into the Republican convention with great poll numbers at this point would've gone with a Pawlenty or something like that. But I guess this election is hinging on the Clinton voters, so he had to do something.

So in the end, I see the upside but I also see a lot of risk. Very intriguing in any case though


Fair enough, however you seem like a rational Obama voter :) I bet that is lonely :P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:58 pm

Great speech by Palin and McCain to introduce her. McCain had more memorable lines in his five minute speech than Obama did with his big speech last night.

The best one was: "I want government to stand by your side instead of standing in your way." Great line.

Palin's focus on her reformist tendencies really put the focus on McCain being the guy who can truly bring real change. Most of the country think of McCain as a guy who goes against the grain.

Palin also brought up her rejection of Washington's earmark money. Barack Obama and Joe Biden have brought back millions of dollars to their states in earmarks. McCain and Palin have both rejected them. How can we trust a ticket to truly change Washington if that ticket has played the same old Washington politics during their tenure there? We can't. McCain and Palin present real change that calls government into accountability for wasting the money that belongs to the people.

Palin appears to be a great speaker. I'm not just excited for her run with McCain but also excited for the future. The Republicans have two young, great reform minded governors that will be in the spotlight over the next week. Palin because of the nomination and Jindal because the the prep being done in Louisiana. Word was yesterday that LA is three days ahead of where they were when Katrina hit. I pray that Gustav just goes away and am saddened to see some Democrats gleefully talking about LA taking a hit because they think it'll remind people of the Katrina failure. If Jindal's government and FEMA react much better to a disaster it will be a major positive. First and foremost, more lives would be saved. Secondly, it would show how much Jindal has impacted Louisiana.

The GOP has some bright, young shining stars with a wealth of experience and knowledge. The future looks bright for America because of it.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:05 pm

I'll tell ya what, Palin's speech at the Republican National Convention is going to get off the chart television ratings.

The combination of her looks and the fact few people know anything about her, it's going to have massive amounts of people tuned in.

If she can capitalize on the opportunity and impress, McCain is likely to come out of the convention with a nice boost.

Big, big advantage to McCain having his convention last. Not only is he likely to get a big lift, but he used the Palin announcement very effectively to kill Obama's boost off his convention.

Wondered why he looked so happy last night in congratulating Obama on his special night, on a special day (anniv of MLK "I have a dream" speech).
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:17 pm

so the two people next to me at work are total libs. They just smashed her for having a child with downsyndrome saying "the pro-lifer's love her cause she had her child even though it had 20 legs".... unreal. They are laughing how stupid the GOP is for picking her with no experience while bashing Obama for no experience. What is so hard to get about the difference between President and Vice President. Am I wrong here?
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:18 pm

Swerb wrote:Wondered why he looked so happy last night in congratulating Obama on his special night, on a special day (anniv of MLK "I have a dream" speech).


Now we know what he meant that he'd be back at him the next day. McCain should have told him to be prepared to have a boot up his ass.

Listening to Limbaugh, he thinks the selection is a bit of a Rope-A-Dope. Obama's campaign is criticizing Palin's lack of foreign policy experience. Is that really a good idea?

McCain's camp fired back:

McCain aide Jill Hazelbaker:

It is pretty audacious for the Obama campaign to say that Governor Palin is not qualified to be Vice President. She has a record of accomplishment that Senator Obama simply cannot match. Governor Palin has spent her time in office shaking up government in Alaska and actually achieving results -- whether it’s taking on corruption, passing ethics reform or stopping wasteful spending and the ‘bridge to nowhere.’ Senator Obama has spent his time in office running for President.

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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:22 pm

Ziner wrote:so the two people next to me at work are total libs. They just smashed her for having a child with downsyndrome saying "the pro-lifer's love her cause she had her child even though it had 20 legs".... unreal. They are laughing how stupid the GOP is for picking her with no experience while bashing Obama for no experience. What is so hard to get about the difference between President and Vice President. Am I wrong here?


Nope. They don't get it.

I know a moderate liberal woman who was actually not going to vote in November. She's now voting for McCain just because of this pick. And criticizing her for having a Downs Syndrome baby is a bad idea if they try it. It devalues human life.

The Republicans now have a woman who went through with a pregnancy despite knowing about the Downs Syndrome. She has lived out her pro-life stance. Her son is going to Iraq and she still supports the war, just like McCain who also had a son in Iraq and still supported it. It's going to be hard to criticize either for supporting it when their own children are involved. The Dems used that against Bush and the Republicans when criticizing in the past and they can't use that card anymore. These two candidates DO have their family on the line and they still decide to fight. That's integrity of character.
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Unread postby buckeye319 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:27 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
Ziner wrote:so the two people next to me at work are total libs. They just smashed her for having a child with downsyndrome saying "the pro-lifer's love her cause she had her child even though it had 20 legs".... unreal. They are laughing how stupid the GOP is for picking her with no experience while bashing Obama for no experience. What is so hard to get about the difference between President and Vice President. Am I wrong here?


Nope. They don't get it.

I know a moderate liberal woman who was actually not going to vote in November. She's now voting for McCain just because of this pick. And criticizing her for having a Downs Syndrome baby is a bad idea if they try it. It devalues human life.

The Republicans now have a woman who went through with a pregnancy despite knowing about the Downs Syndrome. She has lived out her pro-life stance. Her son is going to Iraq and she still supports the war, just like McCain who also had a son in Iraq and still supported it. It's going to be hard to criticize either for supporting it when their own children are involved. The Dems used that against Bush and the Republicans when criticizing in the past and they can't use that card anymore. These two candidates DO have their family on the line and they still decide to fight. That's integrity of character.


Biden's boy is deploying to Iraq. His story is every bit as personal.

I honestly think you're hard pressed to ridicule any of the four's life family stories. They all seem like solid individuals.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:27 pm

It's certainly not just the female vote that McCain is seeking here either.

Last I saw, Alaska had the highest ratio of men to women in the country. (Nevada is 2nd but if you lose the strippers they may actually take the lead 8) :cool: 8-) ).
She obviously appealed to male voters there though I have no voter demographic information to support that.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:30 pm

buckeye319 wrote:
Biden's boy is deploying to Iraq. His story is every bit as personal.

I honestly think you're hard pressed to ridicule any of the four's life family stories. They all seem like solid individuals.


I do think there are interesting family stories around. McCain comes from a longterm military family. They wouldn't be classified as rich by any stress, even if they were Admirals at the end of their long careers.

Palin and Biden come from blue collar backgrounds, though Palin's youth and the ruggedness of Alaska will probably make her seem much closer to the blue collar folks than a guy who has been in the Senate for over 35 years.

Obama's story is interesting, though he doesn't stress it as much because he's not tied in to the longterm black population in the US.

Their are corruption attacks against Biden and Obama. Obama's questionable ties to several people will become more of an issue as we progress.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:57 pm

Peeker643 wrote:It's certainly not just the female vote that McCain is seeking here either.

Last I saw, Alaska had the highest ratio of men to women in the country. (Nevada is 2nd but if you lose the strippers they may actually take the lead 8) :cool: 8-) ).
She obviously appealed to male voters there though I have no voter demographic information to support that.

Good point Peeker.

Couple other factors here too.

One, if I'm Obama, I think you now need Hillary more than ever these next 2.5 months.

My personal take? It killed Hillary to concede. And outside of her convention speech the other night, it kills her to campaign for Obama. Regardless of how big a role she plays in the Obama campaign the rest of the way, I think it's clear that Obama needs her public and persistent support more than ever.

Two, with McCain going to be 76 years old in a potential re-election campaign in 2012, this is a look ahead to the next election as well by the Repubs.

Could very well be a Hillary/Palin race in 2012.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:59 pm

Excellent analysis from Ed Morrissey:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/29/w ... -to-obama/
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:03 pm

Couple very good points in that piece ....

Politically, this puts Obama in a very tough position. The Democrats had prepared to launch a full assault on McCain’s running mate, but having Palin as a target creates one large headache. If they go after her like they went after Hillary Clinton, Obama risks alienating women all over again. If they don’t go after her like they went after Hillary, he risks alienating Hillary supporters, who will see this as a sign of disrespect for Hillary.


Finally, based on all of the above, McCain can remind voters who has the real record of reform. Obama talks a lot about it but has no actual record of reform, and for a running mate, he chose a 35-year Washington insider with all sorts of connections to lobbyists and pork. McCain has fought pork, taken real political risks to fight undue influence of lobbyists, and he picked an outsider who took on her own party — and won.

This is change you can believe in, and not change that amounts to all talk. McCain changed the trajectory of the race today by stealing Obama’s strength and turning it against him. Obama provided that opening by picking Biden as his running mate, and McCain was smart enough to take advantage of the opening.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:15 pm

Swerb wrote:One, if I'm Obama, I think you now need Hillary more than ever these next 2.5 months.

My personal take? It killed Hillary to concede. And outside of her convention speech the other night, it kills her to campaign for Obama. Regardless of how big a role she plays in the Obama campaign the rest of the way, I think it's clear that Obama needs her public and persistent support more than ever.


She's not even going to vote for Obama, let alone "campaign" for him. At this stage, the best thing that could happen in terms of her presidential aspirations is for McCain to win.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
She's not even going to vote for Obama, let alone "campaign" for him. At this stage, the best thing that could happen in terms of her presidential aspirations is for McCain to win.


Precisely. And what of ardent Hillary backers? They can have their cake and eat it too. By voting for McCain now they can elevate a woman to the second highest office in the land and ensure that Hillary will have another go at it.

From their perspective, what happens if McCain only does serve one term? If Palin gets the nomination in 2012 and Hillary gets the Dem nod then they are guaranteed a female President.

I think a lot of Hillary supporters will now swing towards McCain. They haven't been terribly fond of Obama as it is and this could really be the straw that breaks the camel's back, especially if the McCain camp can be successful in their claims that Obama's camp is belittling the achievements of women. That's what a female McCain staffer said after Obama's camp questioned Palin's experience because she was just a Mayor in Wasilla in the past.

It's a bad idea to belittle small towns after your guns and Bible quote and it's an even worse idea to belittle a woman. By hammering against both you are sticking it to more than half of the country. 50% or so are women and I believe at least 30% are in smaller cities and towns - maybe more. I'd guess that Obama has now directly dissed 60% or more of the US population. That's a rookie mistake.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
Swerb wrote:One, if I'm Obama, I think you now need Hillary more than ever these next 2.5 months.

My personal take? It killed Hillary to concede. And outside of her convention speech the other night, it kills her to campaign for Obama. Regardless of how big a role she plays in the Obama campaign the rest of the way, I think it's clear that Obama needs her public and persistent support more than ever.


She's not even going to vote for Obama, let alone "campaign" for him. At this stage, the best thing that could happen in terms of her presidential aspirations is for McCain to win.

For sure Tom. But I think the party and the Obama camp will put a lot of pressure on her to do so.

Also, the legions of Hillarites, many will now be conflicted, and they'll be looking for guidance from their messiah. If she stays quiet, and refuses to really continue to publically support Obama, and in a genuine way, it's gonna hurt Obama bad.

Everyone in the Democratic Party has to know this, from Dean on down. And if they lose this election, given Bush's approval ratings the last four years, it will be a major embarrassment to the party.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Clintons handle this latest development.

First Hillary loses a race you just know she thought she couldn't lose. Now ... the Repubs tab a woman to be VP.

Damn, you really gotta feel for Hillary. :roll :roll:
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Unread postby waborat » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:19 pm

She can read me a political bedtime story anytime :P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby General » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:19 pm

Forget all of this political BS...who is freakin' hotter? Sarah Palin, Michell Obama, or even McCain's washed out old hag? :twisted:
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:23 pm

Not even close General. After 5 kids, Palin looks fantastic. She runs away with it, IMO.
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Unread postby General » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:31 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Not even close General. After 5 kids, Palin looks fantastic. She runs away with it, IMO.


That rugged outdoorsy type...gives birth in the morning, kills a moose while breast feeding the infant, and then field dresses it in time for supper and some last minute legislation.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:36 pm

General wrote:Forget all of this political BS...who is freakin' hotter? Sarah Palin, Michell Obama, or even McCain's washed out old hag? :twisted:


Not even close. Palin is the hottest and the toughest of the bunch. She stood up to the Good 'Ol Boy network in Alaska, likes to hunt, has given birth five times, plays hockey, played basketball. In short, I think she's the dream woman for a lot of guys (like me) that love independent, assertive women.

Michelle Obama destroys herself when she opens her mouth. Cindy's not too bad to look at but her best days are behind her.

I'd love to see Palin with the hair down.
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Unread postby waborat » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:41 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:

Michelle Obama destroys herself when she opens her mouth.



Yeah, Chicago dentists should be ashamed of themselves
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:10 pm

Maybe Obama should've picked her as a running mate himself.




Palin Pleased with Obama's Energy Plan


August 4, 2008, Fairbanks, Alaska - Governor Sarah Palin today responded to the energy plan put forward by the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, Illinois Senator Barack Obama.


“I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska’s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs,” Governor Palin said. “The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs.”



http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee/Entries/2008/8/4_Palin_Pleased_with_Obamas_Energy_Plan.html
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:13 pm

Swerb wrote: the legions of Hillarites, many will now be conflicted, and they'll be looking for guidance from their messiah. If she stays quiet, and refuses to really continue to publically support Obama, and in a genuine way, it's gonna hurt Obama bad.

Everyone in the Democratic Party has to know this, from Dean on down. And if they lose this election, given Bush's approval ratings the last four years, it will be a major embarrassment to the party.


Isn't McCain already running ads showing Hillary supporters that say they are not going to vote for Obama??

If the Dems lose this election, it might be the most clear signal that changes in ideas, messages, tactics are needed or the party will be done.
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Unread postby Damage » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm

Sorry. The McCain ticket simply does not have the grassroots energy to win this. Game, set, match. Their only platform (experience) is now moot. Hillary will sink her teeth into Palin. This is going to get quite ugly. Biden will handle her with kid gloves, but please, he'd have a tougher debate against a lamp.

It's over. 49-41 polling BEFORE Obama's brilliant speech last night.
Last edited by Damage on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Damage » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:22 pm

Hillary doesn't want Palin to be the first female president. McCain surely will not last the entire 8 years.

Palin is very smart, but this is a huge risk. In fact, read this article.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/ ... ef=topnews
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:24 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:Maybe Obama should've picked her as a running mate himself.

Palin Pleased with Obama's Energy Plan

August 4, 2008, Fairbanks, Alaska - Governor Sarah Palin today responded to the energy plan put forward by the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

“I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska’s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs,” Governor Palin said. “The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs.”

http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee/Entries/2008/8/4_Palin_Pleased_with_Obamas_Energy_Plan.html


There's been a bit made about this, though Palin didn't praise Obama's plan completely. She was happy that he included natural gas in the plan and supported the pipeline.

It should be noted that Palin stood against Big Oil in how they originally wanted to do the pipeline and its current construction setup is in large part due to her.

Obama does deserve praise for including the natural gas in there, but Palin also stressed that he did not go far enough. She and most Alaskans are big on opening up ANWR. I think picking her provides McCain a way to move in that direction.

Obama says he can get us off of Middle East oil in ten years, two years beyond his own potential Presidency. He doesn't want to contemplate ANWR, a place that can match Saudi Arabian imports in 3-5 years, depending on who you listen to.
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Unread postby Damage » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:Maybe Obama should've picked her as a running mate himself.

Palin Pleased with Obama's Energy Plan

August 4, 2008, Fairbanks, Alaska - Governor Sarah Palin today responded to the energy plan put forward by the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

“I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska’s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs,” Governor Palin said. “The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs.”

http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee/Entries/2008/8/4_Palin_Pleased_with_Obamas_Energy_Plan.html


There's been a bit made about this, though Palin didn't praise Obama's plan completely. She was happy that he included natural gas in the plan and supported the pipeline.

It should be noted that Palin stood against Big Oil in how they originally wanted to do the pipeline and its current construction setup is in large part due to her.

Obama does deserve praise for including the natural gas in there, but Palin also stressed that he did not go far enough. She and most Alaskans are big on opening up ANWR. I think picking her provides McCain a way to move in that direction.

Obama says he can get us off of Middle East oil in ten years, two years beyond his own potential Presidency. He doesn't want to contemplate ANWR, a place that can match Saudi Arabian imports in 3-5 years, depending on who you listen to.


Rumor has it Obama was going to nab her and put her in charge of his energy council.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:28 pm

Damage wrote:

It's over. 49-41 polling BEFORE Obama's brilliant speech last night.


The only people that found that speech brilliant were the people who gush of Obama all the time anyways. The normal Joe wasnt impressed by that speech. It wasnt impressive or memorable. He came off as condecending and shallow and it all seemed real fake. The cheers, the enthusasism, and that stupid looking stage. Like I said before by the time this election is over Obama will get crushed for 2 main reasons

1. He has no experience and hasnt done anything signifigant in his career before. Palin has at least ran a state. Obama was in the state senate and didnt even take a stand most of the time and certainly didnt do anything signifigant or turn IL around. This state is so effed up for the dems that run it and Obama just made it worse.

2. He thinks and acts like he is the smartest guy in the room. No one likes that, people want to relate to their president. Why do you think they went over the top with that stupid video before his speech? He isnt a very likeable person. People will get sick of his arrogance, condecension and the bullshit he spews.
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Damage wrote:Hillary will sink her teeth into Palin.


No way. Hillary is going to steer clear the rest of the way. She won't mind McCain winning. Then she can run in 4 years.
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Unread postby Damage » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:33 pm

idoctribefan wrote:
Damage wrote:Hillary will sink her teeth into Palin.


No way. Hillary is going to steer clear the rest of the way. She won't mind McCain winning. Then she can run in 4 years.


So she won't be the first female president? Please

Christ, is everyone on here a republican or in love with Bush/Cheany/McCain?

I'm not a dem, but I know a rat when i see one. McCain is the biggest flip-flopper of all time. This race is over before it even begins.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:36 pm

Damage wrote:Sorry. The McCain ticket simply does not have the grassroots energy to win this. Game, set, match. Their only platform (experience) is now moot. Hillary will sink her teeth into Palin. This is going to get quite ugly. Biden will handle her with kid gloves, but please, he'd have a tougher debate against a lamp.

It's over. 49-41 polling BEFORE Obama's brilliant speech last night.


Dude, there's usually a bounce on daily tracking during a convention. It's hardly game, set, match.

The experience argument is not moot because now Obama has to criticize McCain for picking someone that inexperienced to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency. That's going to bite Obama in the ass because he wants to be President and he has just as much experience, probably less, than Palin.

You're right, this will get ugly. The conservative base just got recharged. Dobson just said he'd vote for McCain now. I've talked to a lot of people now that are more excited than ever.

McCain is going to win this going away. 10 points or more in November. Obama is going to get hammered in the debates and Joe Biden will say something patronizing when he debates Palin. The Republicans will hammer away on energy and they will also hammer away on how often Biden has been dead wrong on foreign policy (voted against the first Iraq war, voted against the surge, didn't see the Russia resurgence coming when McCain did).

Let's wait until Monday to see if McCain's pick took the wind out of the sails. The poll you cited was from last night after Obama's mediocre speech in which he promised to raise taxes on the people that pay over 60% of it. They'll move their money, revenue will decrease, the deficit will deepen, and America will be worse off because of it.

Obama's plan: Bankrupt America with over a trillion dollars in new, unfunded programs, tax rebates to people who already do not pay taxes (40% of Americans actually pay $0.00 in Federal income taxes).

Trust me. Obama is already backing off the experience attacks because McCain's camp effectively turned that against him. He can't attack her too badly or he'll piss off the feminists BUT if he doesn't he will piss off the Hillary supporters because of how she was attacked.

Go over to HillaryClintonForum.net. Those people are dancing will glee at this one. Most are saying that McCain is a definite.

Mark this down. Obama is going to lose Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Minnesota to McCain. The tracking in Pennsylvania looks horrible for Obama right now because McCain is leading by over 10 points in the swing areas that Hillary took. These are places that Kerry won in 2004.

Minnesota's polling is begin to suggest McCain. Same for Wisconsin. And now the Republicans have someone who is the closest to the blue collar worker. Her husband is in the steelworkers union. Her parents were a teacher and a secretary.

Obama could be in some pretty deep doo-doo. Let's see what happens after the RNC. If Obama is up by eight and McCain gets a 15 point or more bounce then McCain is up by seven or eight next weekend.
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Unread postby Damage » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:40 pm

Mediocre speech...ok. What do you consider a good speech? Was Kennedy's speech "Mediocre"? It's so annoying that people cannot give credit when credit is due.

People argue that he comes off as the smartest guy in the room. Umm, HE IS RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES OF AMERICA.

Sorry, we had 8 years of a dumbass in charge. And what a wonderful job he did. [/u]
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Unread postby waborat » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:44 pm

Damage wrote:
idoctribefan wrote:
Damage wrote:Hillary will sink her teeth into Palin.


No way. Hillary is going to steer clear the rest of the way. She won't mind McCain winning. Then she can run in 4 years.


So she won't be the first female president? Please



um, if McCain wins and Hillary runs against him in 4 years and suceeds then wouldn't that still make her the first female president???

I'm sure that she would rather have a shot again in 4 then in 8 years? Plus who knows if Biden wouldn't run then (sure he'll be 73, but the same age as McCain now and Hillary would be almost 69 by then)...Hillary knows she likely has one more shot in 4 years or her dream is over
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