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Presidential Election 2008 - who is still undecided?

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Presidential Election 2008 - who is still undecided?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:25 pm

I always wonder about these polls obama up 5 then mccain up 2... blah blah... are any of you still undecided? I dont think I know anyone who doesnt know who they are voting for. Just curious if you are and if so what are you looking for?
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Unread postby jfiling » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:39 pm

I'm pretty much not undecided. Both major candidates scare me, and unless one does something to really scare me, I'm either sitting out or wasting my vote on Bob Barr. I just don't see how either one is better than the other.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:11 pm

I'm pretty much not undecided. Both major candidates scare me, and unless one does something to really scare me, I'm either sitting out or wasting my vote on Bob Barr. I just don't see how either one is better than the other.


Good for you (not being sarcastic). I know and understand that everyone has a right to vote, but if you are undecided or uneducated than I'd feel better if you sat it out and not canceled out someone's vote who is voting with a strong conviction one way or the other.

It pisses me off to see uninformed people voting merely because they have the right and/or because Puffy told them they only have one other option (to die).
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:31 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:
Good for you (not being sarcastic). I know and understand that everyone has a right to vote, but if you are undecided or uneducated than I'd feel better if you sat it out and not canceled out someone's vote who is voting with a strong conviction one way or the other.

It pisses me off to see uninformed people voting merely because they have the right and/or because Puffy told them they only have one other option (to die).


That was actually brought up on a national talk show today (Dennis Prager). He's at the DNC and was talking to someone who said she had no idea where the candidates stood on anything but was voting for Obama because he was cool or something to that effect. Prager said it was kind of scary that her vote essentially would cancel out his McCain vote and Prager actually can list a bunch of reasons why he's voting McCain.

At the same time, I know someone who hasn't voted in the past but has actually started paying attention and will vote this year because he actually cares. Granted, I think he just turned 18 right before the last Presidential election and admitted he didn't register with a specific party because he really had no idea where he stood, etc. Now he's driven to vote because he agrees fairly strongly with McCain on most issues.

It goes the other way too, though I have a feeling Obama will draw plenty of people that won't know much about his stances. McCain will also draw reactionaries that don't like Obama or the racists that think being black is an evil thing. Wish both of those groups wouldn't participate.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:00 pm

A lot of the ill-informed people are voting for Obama, because they hear the word change and they think that any change is good. If you want to vote for Obama because you're pro-choice, or in favor of social spending, that's one thing. But people need to research these topics instead of just voting for someone because they say the right things to mass groups that don't know what's going on.

Just like having kids, people need to pass an IQ test before they can vote.
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Unread postby Apex777 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:21 pm

The one thing that bugs me the most about election time is this: It really gets on my nerves when people whine and complain about who did or didn't get elected and when you ask the person who they voted for, they say "Oh, I don't vote".

I've always been a firm believer that IF you aren't going to take the time to learn about the candidates and then make an informed choice on election day, you ought to keep your mouth SHUT. :eek :shock:
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Unread postby FUDU » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:26 pm

Apex777 wrote:The one thing that bugs me the most about election time is this: It really gets on my nerves when people whine and complain about who did or didn't get elected and when you ask the person who they voted for, they say "Oh, I don't vote".

I've always been a firm believer that IF you aren't going to take the time to learn about the candidates and then make an informed choice on election day, you ought to keep your mouth SHUT. :eek :shock:


There is one problem though, people have a right not to vote just as much as they have a right to vote.

No different than supporting anything else in life, or giving your hard earned money away for something.

Will you buy a Ford just b/c you don't like a Chevy?

You couldn't pay me to vote for either one of these two clowns, I support neither therefor I will not support the other and empower somebody I do not support just b/c I have "a vote".

Hopefully there is somebody I can write in, but as of right now I am not confident in that either.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:31 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:A lot of the ill-informed people are voting for Obama, because they hear the word change and they think that any change is good. If you want to vote for Obama because you're pro-choice, or in favor of social spending, that's one thing. But people need to research these topics instead of just voting for someone because they say the right things to mass groups that don't know what's going on.

Just like having kids, people need to pass an IQ test before they can vote.


I don't like the idea of having a test for voting. On the one hand it would be nice to have an informed voter, but one the other it is fiercely undemocratic and can be manipulated to keep out a certain part of the populace. That happened to blacks for decades between the poll tax and reading tests. I don't like the idea of disqualifying voters based on a test. Who would write the test? If you think that gerrymandering is bad then that could be much worse.

A poll test is the easy way out just like I think all these social engineering programs are. The hard and proper road is to get a group of people and work across the nation to educate voters on issues. I feel the same thing about conservative ideals. I believe that a large number of people can be won over to the conservative cause but I know that it will not be easy.

The easy way is to just try to legislate or tax your way out of a problem. Some just go to a judge instead of even trying to legislate a problem, taking elected representatives out of it entirely.

I do think a lot of Obama voters will be either die hard Democrats that can't vote any other way or people that get suckered into a hope and change message from the most liberal and partisan Senator in the US Senate. The one example that the guy could give of a bipartisan effort when asked at Saddleback was one in which he ended up stabbing McCain in the back because his party leaders probably threatened him behind closed doors. Talk about courage of your convictions.

But people will always blindly follow. The key is having enough people that will not. Those blind followers are far less likely to show up. They may get passionate for a time but it doesn't last. Those with deeper and stronger convictions are far more likely to show up and I do believe that McCain has a pretty solid lead with very likely voters.
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Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:35 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:A poll test is the easy way out just like I think all these social engineering programs are. The hard and proper road is to get a group of people and work across the nation to educate voters on issues.


It is not a problem of educating voters, the problem lies in the individual taking the responsibility to learn for themselves. The flood of information available is almost overwhelming. The simple fact is a great percentage of those people who refuse to educate themselves do not vote anyway, and the small percentage left over is an unfortunate side effect of democracy.

Public humiliation would go a long way to fixing things, we glorify stoopid too much today. But hey Kim Kardashian is on Dancing with the Stars... Please shoot me...
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:53 pm

I gave Obama some more $ today.
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Unread postby Ziner » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:06 pm

I understand some of you not voting, but dont you think it is still smart to vote for the one you hate the least? I am not in love with McCain, but Obama is the biggest hype machine I have ever seen. I have never seen the media cream themselves like they do with Obama, I dont get it. I have researched him and his views and they arent change they are nothing but typical liberal bs or unrealistic talking points.

I would say I am voting more AGAINST Obama then I am FOR McCain

btw - I dont get this coolness thing they talk about with Obama, I am 26 so therefore the demographic that, according to the media, should love him. I find him an arrogant dork that tries to act like the smartest guy in the room because he speaks well and uses big words, but everyone sees through it. I find McCain way more cool, at least he was a bad ass in the military in his day
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Unread postby BDFD » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:22 pm

No way I vote for the guy with the big ears. If I'm picking a guy I'd rather be in a foxhole with (figuratively), it would be Mr. McCain. Experience is somewhat important to me in regards to picking the leader of the free world. I'm funny that way.

All I hear about from Osama is change. Change what? Who? How?? Please enlighten me.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:07 pm

btw - I dont get this coolness thing they talk about with Obama, I am 26 so therefore the demographic that, according to the media, should love him.


Not cool? NOT COOL??!! I'll show you cool....


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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:22 pm

Ziner wrote:I understand some of you not voting, but dont you think it is still smart to vote for the one you hate the least? I am not in love with McCain, but Obama is the biggest hype machine I have ever seen. I have never seen the media cream themselves like they do with Obama, I dont get it. I have researched him and his views and they arent change they are nothing but typical liberal bs or unrealistic talking points.

I would say I am voting more AGAINST Obama then I am FOR McCain

btw - I dont get this coolness thing they talk about with Obama, I am 26 so therefore the demographic that, according to the media, should love him. I find him an arrogant dork that tries to act like the smartest guy in the room because he speaks well and uses big words, but everyone sees through it. I find McCain way more cool, at least he was a bad ass in the military in his day


CHANGE?


Bringing an end to disastrous military decisions like Iraq.
Not accepting money from lobbyists.
Willing to invest big time $ into alternative energies, and not let Big Oil dominate the debate.
Ability to make measured decisions, and do the right thing, instead of being a Global Bully.
Not a puppet for religious right wing wackos.
He supports fair trade over free trade
Supports Employee Free Choice Act
Will work to ban the use of Scab workers during Strikes
Reform No Child Left Behind.
Reform Defense Contracting
Will end Stop-Loss
PAYGO

There is much more, if you have the time to look





McCain is more of the same, and if you enjoyed the last 8 years, than he is the cool candidate for you. I think Barak genuinely wants to make the world a better place to be. He brings the potential for greatness. This old world needs greatness from the USA. What we don't need is the likes of McCain, Bush,Rumsfield, Cheney and the whole lot misleading our nation any longer. The cord needs to be cut from them, completely IMO.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:14 am

WarAdmiral wrote:CHANGE?


Bringing an end to disastrous military decisions like Iraq.


But he picked a running mate that voted for the war.

He's also an idiot that keeps on saying he wants to bring the whole issue with Russia up with the UN. Umm, Russia has a veto so nothing will ever happen there.

Not accepting money from lobbyists.


Yeah, whatever. Sure, he doesn't take from FEDERAL lobbyists. They just go and register in Illinois to give him money. Check out how much money he takes from state lobbyists registered in Illinois.

Willing to invest big time $ into alternative energies, and not let Big Oil dominate the debate.


Haven't we already done that? How many billions have been dumped into the dead end that is ethanol? I'm all for alternatives but oil is going to be around for a while. We need it.

Besides, Big Oil is nothing compared to the Trial Lawyers and Union Bosses. Together those two groups give the Dems almost ten times what the Republicans get from oil execs.

The marketplace is already creating its own incentive for innovation.

Ability to make measured decisions, and do the right thing, instead of being a Global Bully.


Like Iraq? Even Joe Biden said that everyone thought that Hussein had WMDs. Even without them, Saddam Hussein was a vile dictator that murdered hundred of thousands of his own people, violated the treaty he signed in 1991, and violated numerous UN mandates.

Barack Obama is a panzy that has no courage of his convictions. I think you'd like his foreign policy because it'd be like Neville Chamberlain's in the 1930s - try to placate the bad guys. That's what Obama would have done with Hitler.

I just don't see how we're the global bully. How many billions did the Germans and the French STEAL from the Iraqis through the oil for food program? Never would have found out about that without the invasion.

Hmm, wonder why the Germans and French weren't supportive? Could it be because they were on the take?

Not a puppet for religious right wing wackos.


Instead a puppet for left wing wackos like his buddy Bill Ayers or his corrupt Chicago buddies. He learned from an avowed socialist. Government uber alles!

He supports fair trade over free trade


So he supports higher prices for consumers. Fair trade is a joke and he doesn't really support it. He supports tariffs that attempt to protect the economy. Fair trade is about forcing employers to pay a certain "fair" amount and that's a bad, bad idea that will raise prices for everyone and cause jobs to be cut.

Supports Employee Free Choice Act


Umm, Unions have helped to ruin this country. Why make them stronger? That act would allow the unions to play hardball behind the scenes and threaten workers to vote for them. That's exactly what we need.

Even George McGovern, hyperliberal that he is, is opposed to this. Getting rid of the secret ballot is a BAD idea. It will allow the unions to bully people.

Will work to ban the use of Scab workers during Strikes


Read above. Bad idea. I'd prefer he give the business the right to fire all the workers unilaterally and hire new ones.

We need a national Right To Work law. Why do you think the jobs are moving south, eh? I live in a Right to Work state. No closed shops. Any benefits a union might negotiate have to be given to all employees regardless of their membership. Make that national and watch the power of the unions dwindle and witness how many jobs will come back to this country - and they'd be good paying jobs. Honda and Toyota are non-union in much of the US (outside of NUMMA for Toyota IIRC). Their workers are well paid and have shown no interest in organizing. Hmm, wonder why? Could it be because the union bosses get rich while screwing over the American worker and the American company? Want to know what GM, Ford, and Chrysler struggle? Part of the blame lies with the UAW. Why should a UAW forklift driver make $150K a year when all his benefits, etc are added up? That's obscene and it has got to stop or all the jobs will go away. Then maybe we can bully all the union people for screwing the whole country over.

Reform No Child Left Behind.


I think it should actually just be dropped. The Dept. of Education should be dissolved. Education is a state issue. No Federal money for education in the long term. Need to pullback on the funding.

Reform Defense Contracting


Yes, but probably have a different view than Barack.

Will end Stop-Loss


Why? It's part of the contract that military members sign when they enlist and it has been challenged several times only to be upheld in the courts.

Stop-loss has affected about 1% of military personnel since 2002. The enlistment has generally been extended by about six months.


PAYGO


It's a nice idea in theory and was generally followed in the 1990s by a Republican Congress. I'm not opposed to it, though I think that SS and Medicare need to be included. You see, the Federal surplus that the Republicans and Clinton gave us was actually mythical because they were spending out of the social security fund. I'm all for attempting to balance the budget and I'm definitely for trimming the fat in government.

McCain is more of the same, and if you enjoyed the last 8 years, than he is the cool candidate for you. I think Barak genuinely wants to make the world a better place to be. He brings the potential for greatness. This old world needs greatness from the USA. What we don't need is the likes of McCain, Bush,Rumsfield, Cheney and the whole lot misleading our nation any longer. The cord needs to be cut from them, completely IMO.


Potential is all the Barack might offer, but I don't even see that in him. He's a corrupt Chicago politician who was introduced into the system by a terrorist (Ayers). When there was actually a chance to eliminate part of the old Chicago corrupt machine a few years ago they asked Barack to support the change. Obama did not, instead choosing to support his old, corrupt Chicago buddies.

Did you know that Obama has always won his elections by finding ways to disqualify or force out his opponents by playing dirty. He had one petition thrown out to get an opponent off the ballot, forcing off legitimate signatures by protest. He also had his opponent for the Senate's private divorce proceedings leaked in order to humiliate him.

Barack Obama is a dirtbag that will do whatever it takes to get in power and he will not take criticism. Already his campaign is trying to get a completely truthful ad about his association with known terrorist Ayers taken off the air. The First Amendment is too good for Barack Obama.

We need honorable men like McCain to lead us, not men like Obama that throw government money behind slumlords like Tony Rezko.

Obama is the least qualified man to run for President since Franklin Pierce. He likes to compare himself to Lincoln but Lincoln actually had some cajones.

You know, Lincoln fought an unpopular war - a war that most of the country (including the North) did not want to fight. He was fiercely unpopular even in his own Party. Most abolitionists just wanted the South to die on the vine. Most Northerners felt the same. Lincoln showed the courage of his convictions and forced the nation into war.

Even people in his own party called him a dictator and a tyrant but he was neither. Much like George W. Bush, a man who is neither a dictator or a tyrant. If he were either we wouldn't be hearing so much vitriol towards him, but he is an honorable man. Not one that I agree with all the time, but I know he at least has the courage of his convictions.

Barack Obama has little or no courage. He only craves power and the spotlight, longs to create a legacy so the world will remember him and love him. Men like that are not fit to lead. That's the true attitude of a dictator. With Barack talking about spending 10 years or more as President one does have to wonder about his intentions. He should know that he can only be elected twice, but he is THE ONE and his is the man who will cause the Earth to cool and the oceans to recede. He said so himself.

Pretty soon he'll be asking us to call him Obama Christ.
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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:27 am

I do see a glimmer of common ground on PAYGO. The rest, we will just have to strongly disagree.

Honestly, there are a few things I hate about the Democrats, but they are closest to my feelings, at this time in my life. On top of that, I am extremely disappointed in what the current administration has done for my country, the last eight years. I don't hate McCain, but there is little doubt in my mind, that the Rumsfields, Bushes, and Cheney would have their influence on the Oval Office and McCain's administration. I do pray, that if McCain does win, he cuts the cord.

I look at this as a hiring decision. I am going to hire, the guy that best fits my needs. In this case, I am going to hire the guy with the most potential by far IMO, and fits most of my needs. I don't want to settle for average, if I don't have to.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:45 am

I look at this as a hiring decision. I am going to hire, the guy that best fits my needs. In this case, I am going to hire the guy with the most potential by far IMO, and fits most of my needs. I don't want to settle for average, if I don't have to.


It's actually sort of funny in a way that I feel the exact same way as your above statement, thus my reasoning for voting the exact opposite of you. But that's the beauty of the country, I guess.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:19 am

WarAdmiral wrote:I do see a glimmer of common ground on PAYGO. The rest, we will just have to strongly disagree.

Honestly, there are a few things I hate about the Democrats, but they are closest to my feelings, at this time in my life. On top of that, I am extremely disappointed in what the current administration has done for my country, the last eight years. I don't hate McCain, but there is little doubt in my mind, that the Rumsfields, Bushes, and Cheney would have their influence on the Oval Office and McCain's administration. I do pray, that if McCain does win, he cuts the cord.

I look at this as a hiring decision. I am going to hire, the guy that best fits my needs. In this case, I am going to hire the guy with the most potential by far IMO, and fits most of my needs. I don't want to settle for average, if I don't have to.


That's fine. At least you know why you're voting the way you are. You have reasoned it out. I may disagree with you but I respect that you have well thought out reasons for voting that way.

Same goes for Bayou.

Neither candidate is perfect and you have to choose between the two that are the true candidates. McCain is not perfect and I disagree with him on several points but he is far closer to my point of view than Obama.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:34 am

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:CHANGE?


Bringing an end to disastrous military decisions like Iraq.


But he picked a running mate that voted for the war.

He's also an idiot that keeps on saying he wants to bring the whole issue with Russia up with the UN. Umm, Russia has a veto so nothing will ever happen there.

Not accepting money from lobbyists.


Yeah, whatever. Sure, he doesn't take from FEDERAL lobbyists. They just go and register in Illinois to give him money. Check out how much money he takes from state lobbyists registered in Illinois.

Willing to invest big time $ into alternative energies, and not let Big Oil dominate the debate.


Haven't we already done that? How many billions have been dumped into the dead end that is ethanol? I'm all for alternatives but oil is going to be around for a while. We need it.

Besides, Big Oil is nothing compared to the Trial Lawyers and Union Bosses. Together those two groups give the Dems almost ten times what the Republicans get from oil execs.

The marketplace is already creating its own incentive for innovation.

Ability to make measured decisions, and do the right thing, instead of being a Global Bully.


Like Iraq? Even Joe Biden said that everyone thought that Hussein had WMDs. Even without them, Saddam Hussein was a vile dictator that murdered hundred of thousands of his own people, violated the treaty he signed in 1991, and violated numerous UN mandates.

Barack Obama is a panzy that has no courage of his convictions. I think you'd like his foreign policy because it'd be like Neville Chamberlain's in the 1930s - try to placate the bad guys. That's what Obama would have done with Hitler.

I just don't see how we're the global bully. How many billions did the Germans and the French STEAL from the Iraqis through the oil for food program? Never would have found out about that without the invasion.

Hmm, wonder why the Germans and French weren't supportive? Could it be because they were on the take?

Not a puppet for religious right wing wackos.


Instead a puppet for left wing wackos like his buddy Bill Ayers or his corrupt Chicago buddies. He learned from an avowed socialist. Government uber alles!

He supports fair trade over free trade


So he supports higher prices for consumers. Fair trade is a joke and he doesn't really support it. He supports tariffs that attempt to protect the economy. Fair trade is about forcing employers to pay a certain "fair" amount and that's a bad, bad idea that will raise prices for everyone and cause jobs to be cut.

Supports Employee Free Choice Act


Umm, Unions have helped to ruin this country. Why make them stronger? That act would allow the unions to play hardball behind the scenes and threaten workers to vote for them. That's exactly what we need.

Even George McGovern, hyperliberal that he is, is opposed to this. Getting rid of the secret ballot is a BAD idea. It will allow the unions to bully people.

Will work to ban the use of Scab workers during Strikes


Read above. Bad idea. I'd prefer he give the business the right to fire all the workers unilaterally and hire new ones.

We need a national Right To Work law. Why do you think the jobs are moving south, eh? I live in a Right to Work state. No closed shops. Any benefits a union might negotiate have to be given to all employees regardless of their membership. Make that national and watch the power of the unions dwindle and witness how many jobs will come back to this country - and they'd be good paying jobs. Honda and Toyota are non-union in much of the US (outside of NUMMA for Toyota IIRC). Their workers are well paid and have shown no interest in organizing. Hmm, wonder why? Could it be because the union bosses get rich while screwing over the American worker and the American company? Want to know what GM, Ford, and Chrysler struggle? Part of the blame lies with the UAW. Why should a UAW forklift driver make $150K a year when all his benefits, etc are added up? That's obscene and it has got to stop or all the jobs will go away. Then maybe we can bully all the union people for screwing the whole country over.

Reform No Child Left Behind.


I think it should actually just be dropped. The Dept. of Education should be dissolved. Education is a state issue. No Federal money for education in the long term. Need to pullback on the funding.

Reform Defense Contracting


Yes, but probably have a different view than Barack.

Will end Stop-Loss


Why? It's part of the contract that military members sign when they enlist and it has been challenged several times only to be upheld in the courts.

Stop-loss has affected about 1% of military personnel since 2002. The enlistment has generally been extended by about six months.


PAYGO


It's a nice idea in theory and was generally followed in the 1990s by a Republican Congress. I'm not opposed to it, though I think that SS and Medicare need to be included. You see, the Federal surplus that the Republicans and Clinton gave us was actually mythical because they were spending out of the social security fund. I'm all for attempting to balance the budget and I'm definitely for trimming the fat in government.

McCain is more of the same, and if you enjoyed the last 8 years, than he is the cool candidate for you. I think Barak genuinely wants to make the world a better place to be. He brings the potential for greatness. This old world needs greatness from the USA. What we don't need is the likes of McCain, Bush,Rumsfield, Cheney and the whole lot misleading our nation any longer. The cord needs to be cut from them, completely IMO.


Potential is all the Barack might offer, but I don't even see that in him. He's a corrupt Chicago politician who was introduced into the system by a terrorist (Ayers). When there was actually a chance to eliminate part of the old Chicago corrupt machine a few years ago they asked Barack to support the change. Obama did not, instead choosing to support his old, corrupt Chicago buddies.

Did you know that Obama has always won his elections by finding ways to disqualify or force out his opponents by playing dirty. He had one petition thrown out to get an opponent off the ballot, forcing off legitimate signatures by protest. He also had his opponent for the Senate's private divorce proceedings leaked in order to humiliate him.

Barack Obama is a dirtbag that will do whatever it takes to get in power and he will not take criticism. Already his campaign is trying to get a completely truthful ad about his association with known terrorist Ayers taken off the air. The First Amendment is too good for Barack Obama.

We need honorable men like McCain to lead us, not men like Obama that throw government money behind slumlords like Tony Rezko.

Obama is the least qualified man to run for President since Franklin Pierce. He likes to compare himself to Lincoln but Lincoln actually had some cajones.

You know, Lincoln fought an unpopular war - a war that most of the country (including the North) did not want to fight. He was fiercely unpopular even in his own Party. Most abolitionists just wanted the South to die on the vine. Most Northerners felt the same. Lincoln showed the courage of his convictions and forced the nation into war.

Even people in his own party called him a dictator and a tyrant but he was neither. Much like George W. Bush, a man who is neither a dictator or a tyrant. If he were either we wouldn't be hearing so much vitriol towards him, but he is an honorable man. Not one that I agree with all the time, but I know he at least has the courage of his convictions.

Barack Obama has little or no courage. He only craves power and the spotlight, longs to create a legacy so the world will remember him and love him. Men like that are not fit to lead. That's the true attitude of a dictator. With Barack talking about spending 10 years or more as President one does have to wonder about his intentions. He should know that he can only be elected twice, but he is THE ONE and his is the man who will cause the Earth to cool and the oceans to recede. He said so himself.

Pretty soon he'll be asking us to call him Obama Christ.


Wow thanks Mac, I was going to have to refute all of the things you just did, you saved me about a half hour this morning I owe you.

Just because Barack constantly spouts off about change doesnt mean anything will change. He doesnt have any unique ideas, he isnt special and the only reason he can be so much against the war is that HE WASNT EVEN IN THE SENATE YET TO VOTE. The thing that drives me most nuts about Obama is he has never done of anything substance in Chicago, Illinois, or the Senate but acts like as soon as he is president he will then enact all these genius plans that he yets to explain fully. Get out of Iraq in 16 months, great plan... except the military says it will take longer than that to get out all of our equipment out of there. Reform education, sure, how? End tax breaks? oh so what you mean is raise taxes....
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:44 am

Any thoughts on a possible GOP VP candidate? Some of the short list names that have been thrown around so far...

Powell
Hutchinson
Crist
Romney
Ridge
Others?
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:51 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:Any thoughts on a possible GOP VP candidate? Some of the short list names that have been thrown around so far...

Powell
Hutchinson
Crist
Romney
Ridge
Others?


Pawlenty... gov from Minnesota. It would be tough for the republicans to keep slamming obama on the biden pick (and using quotes from biden about obama) if they pick Romney. Romney and McCain werent too buddy buddy during the primary. I would be ok with Powell but I dont think he will do it. I am pretty solidly GOP but I dont want anyone who is a religious guy. I hate that shit. Romney and stay home as far as I am concerned.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:36 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:Any thoughts on a possible GOP VP candidate? Some of the short list names that have been thrown around so far...

Powell
Hutchinson
Crist
Romney
Ridge
Others?


Like Ziner said, Pawlenty. Then there's also Bobby Jindal, Gov. of LA. But, I prefer that he be able to run a fresh, clean campaign in 2012 or 2016. I think I've heard Petraeus's name tossed about, but I assume that'd be for Sec. of Defense.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:56 am

Pawlenty... gov from Minnesota


I'll have to do some research, as I'll admit I'm not too familiar.


I love what Romney brings to the table from an economic standpoint, but I agree that I think the relationships are frayed on that end and it probably wouldn't work out.

I also don't think Powell has the drive or commitment for it right now. Maybe things would have been different 4 or 8 years ago, but I think he is content with his legacy and is good with where he is in life.

I'm hearing more and more buzz about KB Hutchinson and she would be an interesting choice. I'm personally still in the middle of the road on her as a VP candidate, but she's got a good resume and is extremely personable/likeable/marketable.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:35 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:I'm hearing more and more buzz about KB Hutchinson and she would be an interesting choice. I'm personally still in the middle of the road on her as a VP candidate, but she's got a good resume and is extremely personable/likeable/marketable.


That would be quite a hit to the dems, that might sway a ton of hillary voters who are actually pissed... however I still have my doubts on that... when it comes down to it they are still goign to vote barack... i dont like mccain but when it comes down to it he is the best choice imo... they will do the same
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:59 pm

Then there's also Bobby Jindal, Gov. of LA. But, I prefer that he be able to run a fresh, clean campaign in 2012 or 2016.



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Unread postby idoctribefan » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:32 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Any thoughts on a possible GOP VP candidate? Some of the short list names that have been thrown around so far...

Powell
Hutchinson
Crist
Romney
Ridge
Others?


Sara Palin, governor of Alaska. Great stance on energy issues and she would bring more of the abandoned Hillary voters over to McCain.
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:37 pm

Sara Palin, governor of Alaska. Great stance on energy issues and she would bring more of the abandoned Hillary voters over to McCain.



cougar

Just thought I'd get that out the way.
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Unread postby idoctribefan » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:46 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:
Sara Palin, governor of Alaska. Great stance on energy issues and she would bring more of the abandoned Hillary voters over to McCain.



cougar

Just thought I'd get that out the way.


yeah, and she has that going for her as well. Google her.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:19 pm

idoctribefan wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
Sara Palin, governor of Alaska. Great stance on energy issues and she would bring more of the abandoned Hillary voters over to McCain.



cougar

Just thought I'd get that out the way.


yeah, and she has that going for her as well. Google her.


I'd do her.... again... I am all about picking her instead of KB Hutchinson now!

McCain/Cougar '08
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:49 pm

I understand some of you not voting, but dont you think it is still smart to vote for the one you hate the least?

No I do not think it is smart to do so, IMO it is a sign of desperation and borderline ignorance.

By doing as you suggest you are ultimately giving your vote to somebody you truly do not support, IMO that is nuts.

Like I said above, would you do that with purchasing a car? People actually need to start treating their vote like they treat money , errr wait a second? But really it is that important look at your vote in the same terms you look at other things you value.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:16 pm

FUDU wrote:
I understand some of you not voting, but dont you think it is still smart to vote for the one you hate the least?

No I do not think it is smart to do so, IMO it is a sign of desperation and borderline ignorance.

By doing as you suggest you are ultimately giving your vote to somebody you truly do not support, IMO that is nuts.

Like I said above, would you do that with purchasing a car? People actually need to start treating their vote like they treat money , errr wait a second? But really it is that important look at your vote in the same terms you look at other things you value.


But if I go to the grocery store and all the Bananas are starting to rot and but I absolutely need a banana regardless of the quality of the banans and not having one isnt an option, dont I pick the one that is the least rotten?

sorry i couldnt think of a better way of saying that
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:18 pm

FUDU wrote:
People actually need to start treating their vote like they treat money , errr wait a second? But really it is that important look at your vote in the same terms you look at other things you value.


But, unlike $, saving your vote is not an option, DU. No matter what, it's gone once the votes are tallied. You can't bank 'em to be used for a rainy day.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:24 pm

I understand that and agree Oktane, but giving up your vote to somebody you do not support is doing no good at all, it is simply giving in. Remember our vote is something that each one of us is in control of deciding what to do with, taht includes even using it.

I'd rather not give a vote every time than give one up to a lesser choice and empower something I do not support. Like I said I hope I can find a viable write in.

Ziner, no offense but yeah bad analogy. Really how could somebody ever really need a banana?
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:28 pm

FUDU wrote:I'd rather not give a vote every time than give one up to a lesser choice and empower something I do not support.


Certainly your right, Donny, and I'm not here to tell you you should do otherwise, but don't think that just because you don't vote you are not (indirectly as it may be) empowering something you don't support.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:32 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'd rather not give a vote every time than give one up to a lesser choice and empower something I do not support.


Certainly your right, Donny, and I'm not here to tell you you should do otherwise, but don't think that just because you don't vote you are not (indirectly as it may be) empowering something you don't support.


Well honestly what do you think I could be supporting by not casting a vote for BHO or McCain?
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:37 pm

FUDU wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'd rather not give a vote every time than give one up to a lesser choice and empower something I do not support.


Certainly your right, Donny, and I'm not here to tell you you should do otherwise, but don't think that just because you don't vote you are not (indirectly as it may be) empowering something you don't support.


Well honestly what do you think I could be supporting by not casting a vote for BHO or McCain?


Just sayin' that one of the candidates benefitted by your not casting a vote for the other.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:38 pm

FUDU wrote:
Ziner, no offense but yeah bad analogy. Really how could somebody ever really need a banana?


Low Potassium?

My point is this. One of the two of them are going to get elected, whoever your ideal canidate is, is not going to get elected. It will be BHO or McCain. And guess what next election it will be jackasses again, and 2016 same thing. It wont change so I say just plug your nose, figure out your most important issues and vote on them. If that doesnt work just vote Obama cause that is the cool thing to do and besides George Clooney and Barbara Streisand are going to and they must know what they are talking about
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:40 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'd rather not give a vote every time than give one up to a lesser choice and empower something I do not support.


Certainly your right, Donny, and I'm not here to tell you you should do otherwise, but don't think that just because you don't vote you are not (indirectly as it may be) empowering something you don't support.


Well honestly what do you think I could be supporting by not casting a vote for BHO or McCain?


Just sayin' that one of the candidates benefitted by your not casting a vote for the other.


Well if one candidate benefits the other has to as well. BTW I am informed so that is by no means a reason for my decision not to vote if I don't.

I seriously asked you opinion b/c I have asked others I know when they freak out that I might not, a few have brought up your point as well, a good point none the less but nobody really gives me a good example of what it is I could be indirectly supporting.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:44 pm

It wont change so I say just plug your nose, figure out your most important issues and vote on them.


There you go, I am a one issue voter if not then a very few issue voter, and this time around both candidates are completely 180 degrees on the one or two issues I am concerned with.

These two guys are clowns that are only separated by skin color, that is very unfortunate.

BTW how can bananas be both a good energy food and a good food source for sleeping? Just read that recently.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:09 pm

FUDU wrote:
It wont change so I say just plug your nose, figure out your most important issues and vote on them.


There you go, I am a one issue voter if not then a very few issue voter, and this time around both candidates are completely 180 degrees on the one or two issues I am concerned with.

These two guys are clowns that are only separated by skin color, that is very unfortunate.

BTW how can bananas be both a good energy food and a good food source for sleeping? Just read that recently.


I understand your views and thats fine, but it sounds like to me you need a 3rd issue to help with the tiebreak :)
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:56 pm

Also, not to ghey it up any but kudos to everyone in this thread for being able to stick to their beliefs and not attack each other. It's good to see civil disagreements here that doesn't result in petty name calling or bashing someone personally.








Especially from that no count, worthless, son of a bitch Hi Oktane. :lol:
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:33 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Also, not to ghey it up any but kudos to everyone in this thread for being able to stick to their beliefs and not attack each other. It's good to see civil disagreements here that doesn't result in petty name calling or bashing someone personally.








Especially from that no count, worthless, son of a bitch Hi Oktane. :lol:


yeah no kidding, but part of that is because most of us believe they are both jackasses... too bad the those two and their goons wont be able to keep it civil for the rest of the cycle.

Seriously though, I used to be one of those people who would get all fired up about it, but I kind of realized that you arent going to change anyones mind, well at least most people. That was the point of this thread... seems like everyone has their minds made up for Obama or Mccain or are not voting... oh yeah and Bob Barr sorry Jfling. I still dont know who this 10% in the middle are who are undecided and are waiting for some new revelation come out.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 pm

idoctribefan wrote:
Sara Palin, governor of Alaska. Great stance on energy issues and she would bring more of the abandoned Hillary voters over to McCain.


I think both Palin and Jindal are rising stars in the party but that their time is in the future.

I'm a Romney guy but I think Pawlenty may be the best choice. Romney should be McCain's choice to head the Dept. of the Treasury and I do think McCain should make it clear that Romney will be high in his councils on the economy.

Pawlenty puts Minnesota and Wisconsin into play. Romney is still going to campaign for McCain and it'd be wise for him to focus in on Michigan. We need to keep Ohio and try to get Minnesota, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I think that is very doable just as I think that New Jersey is a possibility as well.

As for Romney's words being used against McCain like Biden's were against Obama, I don't think it's quite the same. George H.W. Bush was critical of Reagan and worked fine as the VP. Romney never questioned McCain's preparedness to lead. They didn't agree on some policy and McCain clearly resented Romney's attack tactics. Still, Biden said that Obama wasn't ready to lead. Hillary Clinton said the same thing about him. None of the Republicans every suggested that McCain was not ready to lead.


To be honest, the guy I'd love to have the most is Jindal. He really, really impresses me and I want him to run in the future because I think he would be a great, great President. Palin could also fall into the category, though I don't know if she has national aspirations.
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Unread postby JoJo White » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:00 pm

Pawlenty puts Minnesota and Wisconsin into play.


No he doesn't.

Romney is still going to campaign for McCain and it'd be wise for him to focus in on Michigan. We need to keep Ohio and try to get Minnesota, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I think that is very doable just as I think that New Jersey is a possibility as well.


The only state there that is realistic for the GOP is Ohio. Democrats talk about North Carolina the same way the GOP talks about NJ - both are completely unrealistic and there's not a shred of evidence that either is in play.
To be honest, the guy I'd love to have the most is Jindal. He really, really impresses me and I want him to run in the future because I think he would be a great, great President.


Jindal is all hype. He ran for governor as a different kind of politician, pledging transparency and ethics reform. And then his first month as gov, ethics charges were brought against him. And then the pay raise thing (Bayou can tell you all about this).

All hype.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:03 pm

Bayou Tribe wrote:Also, not to ghey it up any but kudos to everyone in this thread for being able to stick to their beliefs and not attack each other. It's good to see civil disagreements here that doesn't result in petty name calling or bashing someone personally.








Especially from that no count, worthless, son of a bitch Hi Oktane. :lol:


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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:34 pm

JoJo White wrote:Jindal is all hype. He ran for governor as a different kind of politician, pledging transparency and ethics reform. And then his first month as gov, ethics charges were brought against him. And then the pay raise thing (Bayou can tell you all about this).

All hype.


Says someone voting for the candidate of empty hype. With no substance, absolutely no experience record, and his only real strength is to rabble-rouse a large group of people.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:37 pm

JoJo White wrote:
Pawlenty puts Minnesota and Wisconsin into play.


No he doesn't.


Why not?

Kerry won Wisconsin by 11,000 votes. That's less than .4% of the total vote in Wisconsin.

Minnesota was a much larger margin at about 100,000, but I do think having Pawlenty on the ticket and the fact that Franken is tanking for his Senate bid help the Republicans. Minnesota has slowly been giving more and more votes to the Republicans and Kerry's margin was around 3%.

Michigan is tougher with about a 160,000 vote margin from 2004 but if Obama continues to alienate blue collar whites, the Reagan Democrats, then Michigan is in play. Having a horrible Democratic governor doesn't help them and Granholm is very unpopular last I checked.

New Jersey is definitely tougher but Bush only lost by 240,000 votes and the Democrats in NJ have been hit hard with corruption charges. I don't think that's going to be an easy state to pick up but I do think it's possible.

See, North Carolina was Bush's by over 400,000 votes with fewer people voting than in NJ. NJ is closer to the GOP side of things than NC is - and the GOP rating has actually jumped by 10 points since April. I believe it is actually now in better shape than it was four years ago because of the renewed threat of Russia and the oil drilling stance.

Ohio is one that the GOP has to watch out for. New Mexico and Colorado are other close ones (though Colorado appears to be breaking for McCain as of late), but the Dems do have to worry about Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. All four were within striking distance for a weak GW Bush and Kerry actually carried those blue collar Dems that are Hillary voters. Pennsylvania was only a 140,000 vote margin or about 2% for Kerry.

Obama also is in worse shape right now than Kerry was four years ago in the same kind of polls. The youth vote that he used to get the nomination by getting them to caucuses is dissipating and tracking polls are indicating that those voters are far less enthused and far less likely to vote at all.

Call it a gut feeling, but I sense that the GOP will keep Ohio and take Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. The South will continue to be GOP territory and I think McCain will win Florida handily by about 500,000 votes (6-7%). McCain will end up with somewhere around 340 electoral votes.
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Unread postby JoJo White » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:45 pm

McCain will end up with somewhere around 340 electoral votes.


:lol:

Not a chance.

It's very unlikely either candidate gets as many as 300 electoral votes. Country is too divided, just as it was in 2000 & 2004.
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Unread postby CP » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:21 pm

FULL DISCLOSURE: I'm a registered Republican.

That said, I also have a degree in Political Science. Here's what I don't get. IMO, the Dems had THREE opportunities at the presidency where it would have taken their snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and for the third time, the Dems have slit their own political throats.

Does the party leadership really not get it? Really? They are more poorly run than the Dwight Clark Browns...

After watching Biden, I'm more convinced now than I was when I predicted his VP nomination weeks ago at work that the only worse possible VP choice for either candidate would be Lieberman by McCain.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:05 am

JoJo White wrote: :lol:

Not a chance.

It's very unlikely either candidate gets as many as 300 electoral votes. Country is too divided, just as it was in 2000 & 2004.


I'm not too sure. The country is still divided but the Dems actually ran experienced candidates back in 00 and 04. Neither of those candidates was tied to terrorists like Ayers, radical Muslims Khalid Al-Mansour (the man who helped get Obama into Harvard and condemns Christians and Jews routinely), or convicted political fixers like Tony Rezko. Obama's career was launched at the house of Bill Ayers, the man who bombed the Pentagon and whose Weather Underground buddies were killed while preparing to kill soldiers stationed at Fort Dix. Obama knew about all this stuff and still befriended the man and took his support to start his corrupt career in Chicago.

Kerry and Gore did not have a history of disqualifying their opponents in order to win elections. While I'm not a fan of either, neither of them stooped to the scummy levels that Barack did to throw out legit petition signatures in order to boot opponents from the ballot.

This is all slowly coming out to go along with the not so subtle idiocy of Obama. Here's a man that still doesn't get that Russia has a veto on the UN Security Council - he has said as recently as this week that we need to go to the Security Council for a resolution when Russia is saying they'll block any such resolutions.

This is a guy who says that determining when life begins is "above his pay grade". Well if you can't make a definitive answer then don't you think it's best to err on the side of life?

This is a guy that argued for infanticide, something even Barbara Boxer voted against. If a baby survived an abortion then Obama felt it should be killed. What a guy.

Like I said, I dislike Kerry and Gore but both of them had some kind of experience that qualified them for the office. Both served in the military. Both served more than one term in the Senate. Gore was VP for eight years. Obama? His resume is paper thin. GW Bush had six years as governor under his belt and actually ran businesses before hand. Obama? Not a scrap of leadership outside of the Harvard Law Review and that's quite different from real management.

Barack Obama is the least qualified man to run for President from a major party in the last 100 years and possibly ever. Even Franklin Pierce, one of our worst Presidents, served longer in the Senate and had military leadership experience. One could argue that Lincoln was inexperienced, though Lincoln was an experienced litigator (involved in over 5,000 cases) and also had military experience. He also showed much firmer convictions in the Lincoln-Douglas Debates.

Obama published nothing while a "professor" at Chicago, a mark against him in the academic circles. He was known in the Illinois Senate for his "present" votes when he didn't have the balls to vote against a bill but still didn't want to vote for it. He's on record as stating that he hasn't visited all 57 STATES. A slip of the tongue I am sure, but George Bush was hammered for stuff like that and the media's darling is getting a pass. Thing is over 60% of the population think the mainstream media is in tank for Obama. Close to 70% are sick of hearing about him while under 30% feel the same about McCain.

That's why it's different. If the Democrats were actually running a competent ticket then it would be close. They're not. Joe Biden has Foot In Mouth Disease and is on record questioning his running mate's ability to lead. He also is on record saying he's thankful the Dems finally have a clean, articulate black guy to run. He's also on record saying you have to have an Indian accent to go into a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts. He also is unwilling to admit the success of the surge just as Obama is unwilling to say he'd vote for the successful surge in retrospect, another dubious mark on his leadership credentials.

I'd be far more worried if it were Hillary. Obama's a gaffe machine that also happens to have a wife that's one record saying America is a mean country, that she was never proud of the country until her husband ran for President. She didn't get high marks with her speech on Monday and McCain is actually gaining right now. We have to see what happens when Obama speaks tomorrow night. If he doesn't get a big bounce then he's in trouble.

How will Americans react to Obama accepting the nomination in a Greek Temple facade? The guy is not helping the perception that he is some kind of Messianic figure and that will hurt him. So will giving his speech in a football stadium. McCain's celebrity ad hit hard and Obama just confirms it by playing to a huge crowd. It could seriously backfire on the dude and he could lose by 10 points nationally in November.
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