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Fallen Twinsburg Officer

Need to get something off your chest? Have a topic that doesn't fit one of the other forums? Rant away in here. Mature audiences only, not for the easily offended.

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Fallen Twinsburg Officer

Unread postby jack_tors » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:18 pm

I am sure everyone has seen the news recently regarding the Twinsburg police office killed in the line of duty on Saturday night. For some reason this is really bothering me. Perhaps since it occurred fairly close to my home and I have been past the spot where he was killed many times. Plus, he had a wife and newborn baby, its all just sad, very sad.

Then today, I read the PD and find the scum who committed the crime pleaded not guilty and claims the 4 shots to the officer's head was in self defense. Reading this article just infuriates me and I really, really hopes this piece of trash gets the chair.

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Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:44 pm

4 shots to the head and the cop's gun was still in his holster. Clearly self-defense.

The POS still had one cuff on his wrist when he was found and the gun was on his girlfriend's counter.

Senseless shit that will surely bring race into the equation as well. That you can pretty much guarantee.
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Unread postby CP » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:24 am

Crap like this is why I do only civil litigation and don't touch criminal work with a 10-foot pole. I am not sure I could ethically play fair as a prosecutor and my heart wouldn't be in it defending that scum.

The story was vomit-inducing.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:19 am

Happened less than a half mile from my house. What a sad situation. The outpouring from the community has been amazing.

Thing is, Twinsburg is such a safe and quiet community. Just goes to show, you just never know what the hell is going to happen in life.

Don't know how this cat is gonna claim self defense with the officer's gun still holstered. And I just cannot fathom why someone with a very limited criminal record would put four bullets in a cops head.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:32 am

My father is a police officer so whenever I see this stuff it really upsets me. This piece of shit needs to rot in hell. I dont understand the logic of these effin morons.

Here in Chicago just the other week some 4'11'' 300 lb fat ass was causing a distrubance on a bus. A cop went to check it out, she wrestled with him grabbed his gun and shot him dead. It comes out that this guy has been working midnights for years because he had a special needs child that he needed to take care of while his wife was away on work. It's times like that when the judicial system shouldnt be bothered. Save that for the cases we dont know what the outcome should be. Take them out back and shoot them like the POS animal they are.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:35 am

I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.
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Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:40 am

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


Dude, You have posted shit on here about our troops and now about our police officers and it is getting really fucking irritating. I havent busted out a personal attack on here yet, but you are really on my nerves. You are the type of person who is running this country in to the ground. God forbid someone be accountable for their actions. Quit with the cop and troop bashing, it is getting really fucking annoying. If this guy didnt shoot the cop who did? His gun is in the holster how was his life in danger. Just stick to sports if you are going to spew this shit.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:41 am

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


Please...please tell me you are not serious with this bullshit. I thought Munch was the biggest idiot when he paid tribute to the officer on Monday, while "Another one bites the dust" was playing in the background, but you have now taken the mantle. Congrats.

Why was this guy carrying a loaded gun in arm's reach? Surely because he knew the Bully Twinsburgh cops are out to get him.

You have some good takes, but this one is total bullshit. You can hate the cops all you want, but actually pinning this on the cop? So this trial can tie up the legal system in the name of self defense? For a guy who blasted a cop FOUR times from 3 feet away? Shut up. I don't even want you to reply.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:58 am

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


Stick to the 'legalize weed' run dude. The ACLU approach carries ya just so far.

But you can take heart in that the cop can't defend himself against whatever horseshit and bile run from the defendant's side of the box. Then you can Oliver Stone your way to an argument based on the words of an attorney and a guy who shot someone in the head 4 times.

Apparently the first three didn't do the job.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:07 am

In Twinsburg, the cops have an impeccable reputation. I lived there for a couple years in 1996-1997. My wife's mom has lived there for 15 years. I moved back to the city last summer. I know the community.

And the cops have a super reputation in Twinsburg as being fair, honest, and easy to deal with. And not just from Joe Neighbor that's lived in Twinsburg his whole life. From people that have been pulled over or brought in by them.

Both the unit and the cop have great reputations in this case, with no history of excessive force. The fallen officer absolutely deserves the benefit of the doubt 100% in this case, especially given the fact his weapon was holstered.

A bad cop, intent on imposing his will on someone would have brandished the weapon.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:01 pm

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


Are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit? The police officer had his German shepherd ready and willing in the backseat and made no move to get him out. His gun was holstered, as many have said, and it was a traffic stop with someone assumed to be under the influence and probably belligerent.

Not to mention, dipshit, this cop forgot to put a tape in what was an old system in his car. Many of the Twinsburg cruisers have digital recording technology, his just happened not to. This is straight from the Twinsburg PD when some of their men were on Trivosonno the other day.

This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.

God forbid a police officer ever have to do anything for you or your family and get killed in the line of duty.

Give this asshole the benefit of the doubt. While the fallen officer's 3-month-old and wife try to piece their lives back together. Now she gets to answer the question every parent hates to answer. "What happened to Daddy (or Mommy)?" Think about that before you spew a bunch of bullshit.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:39 pm

I tend to side with the police until I know otherwise. The reasoning is, that there are a small percentage of corrupt cops, but the percentage of criminals who are criminal is 100%.

Said it before, The Lead Man will NEVER be a victim of police brutality. You know why? He follows the fucking rules. He knows that the legal registation of his firearm makes it legal to possess, but not to pull out and fire it at an officer of the law, for example.

I might be a sheep, but as Samuel L Jackson once said, you can play blind shepherd all you want, my eyes are wide fuckin' open."

When the logical reason is given as to why that was self defense, let us all know and we'll put are tail between our legs and go home. But please, if you don't understand consideing the circumstances of how God Damn ridiculous and tastless that post was, I've wasted four paragraphs.
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Unread postby CP » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:32 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:Are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit? The police officer had his German shepherd ready and willing in the backseat and made no move to get him out. His gun was holstered, as many have said, and it was a traffic stop with someone assumed to be under the influence and probably belligerent.

Not to mention, dipshit, this cop forgot to put a tape in what was an old system in his car. Many of the Twinsburg cruisers have digital recording technology, his just happened not to. This is straight from the Twinsburg PD when some of their men were on Trivosonno the other day.

This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.

God forbid a police officer ever have to do anything for you or your family and get killed in the line of duty.

Give this asshole the benefit of the doubt. While the fallen officer's 3-month-old and wife try to piece their lives back together. Now she gets to answer the question every parent hates to answer. "What happened to Daddy (or Mommy)?" Think about that before you spew a bunch of bullshit.


Rack this.

This irrational school of thought that it's so cool to spew venom at police everywhere because of incidents that have nothing to do with the officers who incur the wrath. So some cop in Cali is an ahole, let's shout PIG at a cop in Berea. Or some cop in Cleveland gave you a hard time, so we'll act like a dick to a cop in Aurora.
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Unread postby Apex777 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:39 pm

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


After reading your response, pretty much ALL I can say is, pack your bags, cause the bus for the looney bin is waiting outside your door. It's obvious you are frickin' nuts, why else would you post such a crude, inflammatory comment? :x :mad: :-x

And, just for the record, I truly HOPE the scumbag, waste of oxygen that shot the Twinsburg officer, gets the "big needle"
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:54 pm

This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.


I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks, but this one really gets me, because there is an innocent man sitting in prison for life due to this exact scenario. Cory Maye was sleeping in his home with his daughter when the cops raided his home. It was the wrong home, by the way. Fearing for his daughter's life, he shielded her with his body, grabbed his gun, and fired. He killed a police officer, who was not in uniform and Maye had no way of knowing it was the police, since it was the sound of the raid that woke him. But hey, fuck him, he should get the needle. Did I mention that he was innocent of any crime besides shooting an intruder who happened to be a cop?

How about Ryan Frederick? Police, in a similar raid, busted into his house, which had been burgled only a week earlier, in the middle of the night and he fired one shot in self-defense, killing an officer. He's facing life in prison.

Kathryn Johnston? A woman in her 90s who fired an antique gun exactly once at police serving a "no-knock" warrant on her apartment. You'll be happy to know that while she didn't hit any cops, she was killed in a hail of gunfire, and then the cops planted weed in her apartment to make the bust look justified. Interestingly, a few cops were injured in that raid, but it was from "friendly fire".

I really hope that this post doesn't come across as nothing but cop-hating, because like soldier I do admire the ones who do their job without having that gung-ho killer mentality. I also would think everyone would like to know all the facts of this tragedy before demanding the death penalty. I also hope I'm not crossing any lines of being banned or anything.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:56 pm

The one thing I just cannot understand is don't the police usually pat you down before handcuffing? Regardless, just a shame how his life ended..........
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:58 pm

jfiling wrote:I can come up with plenty of reasons where the alleged could claim self-defense. Can you tell me why a guy would allow a cop to cuff him, in a situation where you would presume you are on camera, except the dipshit Twinsburg cops apparently have cars like this one with non-working cameras (and I have my suspicions about that), and then shoot him with a registered firearm when he had no criminal record? It all stinks, but hey, let's take the dead cops side and fry this guy before having any idea what actually happened.


WOW, something tells me a cop jammed a nightstick up your ass.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:55 pm

jfiling wrote:
This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.


I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks, but this one really gets me, because there is an innocent man sitting in prison for life due to this exact scenario. Cory Maye was sleeping in his home with his daughter when the cops raided his home. It was the wrong home, by the way. Fearing for his daughter's life, he shielded her with his body, grabbed his gun, and fired. He killed a police officer, who was not in uniform and Maye had no way of knowing it was the police, since it was the sound of the raid that woke him. But hey, fuck him, he should get the needle. Did I mention that he was innocent of any crime besides shooting an intruder who happened to be a cop?

How about Ryan Frederick? Police, in a similar raid, busted into his house, which had been burgled only a week earlier, in the middle of the night and he fired one shot in self-defense, killing an officer. He's facing life in prison.

Kathryn Johnston? A woman in her 90s who fired an antique gun exactly once at police serving a "no-knock" warrant on her apartment. You'll be happy to know that while she didn't hit any cops, she was killed in a hail of gunfire, and then the cops planted weed in her apartment to make the bust look justified. Interestingly, a few cops were injured in that raid, but it was from "friendly fire".

I really hope that this post doesn't come across as nothing but cop-hating, because like soldier I do admire the ones who do their job without having that gung-ho killer mentality. I also would think everyone would like to know all the facts of this tragedy before demanding the death penalty. I also hope I'm not crossing any lines of being banned or anything.


This sounds EXACTLY like the examples that were listed there:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pag ... geId=1.1.1

So someone tell me, what could possibly have transpired in the two minutes that led a guy with one cuff on his wrist to shoot the cop in the head 4 times? Two minutes between the time the cop ran the tags and the 'popping sounds' were heard. What scenario can possibly be created that's gonna make this one justifiable?

People have found human thumbs in Coke cans. Do people still drink soda or did that rare happening slant them away from all carbonated beverages? How come no one reports about the millions of Coke cans opened w/o thumbs in 'em? I saw where a mouse was found in a can of corn. Do people still eat canned and packaged food?
And can someone list the millions of raids and arrests that were justified and that were properly executed that removed guns, drugs, murderers, rapists, pedophiles and otherassorted assholes off the streets our kids play on please?

Only the fucking piece of shit, limp dick assholes that kill cops get the benefit of the doubt?

Two uncles of mine did that work for years. Working domestic calls, SWAT, going into places most people don't have the balls to go. And you better have that 'gung-ho, balls to the wall, killer mentality to do that job. Cops can't afford to tie in those situations. It's win or get dead. Save the bleeding heart bullshit and ghost stories for someone fucked up enough to listen to 'em.

Not to mention the cocksucker and his cop killing client will be the only ones able to spin some fucking yarn about racial slurs, inappropriate conduct toward the dude's chick or whatever other crap they can come up with to try and save his stupid ass.

Anyone's dime to my dollar that's coming.

How 'bout leaving it at 'due process' next time.
Last edited by peeker643 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:16 pm

Peeker643 wrote:This sounds EXACTLY like the examples you listed there:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pag ... geId=1.1.1

So tell me sir, what could possibly have transpired in the two minutes that led a guy with one cuff on his wrist to shoot the cop in the head 4 times? Two minutes between the time the cop ran the tags and the 'popping sounds' were heard. What scenario can you possibly create that's gonna make this one justifiable?

People have found human thumbs in Coke cans. You still drink soda or did that rare happening slant you away from all carbonated beverages. I saw a mice found in a can of corn. You still eat canned and packaged food? And can you list the millions of raids and arrests that were justified and that were properly executed that removed guns, drugs and assholes off the streets please?

Only the fucking piece of shit, limp dick assholes that kill cops get your benefit of the doubt?

Two uncles of mine did that work for years. Working domestic calls, SWAT, going into places most people don't have the balls to go. Save your bleeding heart bullshit and ghost stories for someone fucked up enough to listen to 'em.

Trying not to be personal J because for the most part I respect your shit, but that bias you have for cops touches a real big nerve. Not to mention the cocksucker and his cop killing client will be the only ones able to spin some fucking yarn about racial slurs, inappropriate conduct toward the dude's chick or whatever other crap they can come up with to try and save his stupid ass.

Your dime to my dollar that's coming.

How 'bout leaving it at 'due process' next time.


Cool, you didn't make it personal ;)

There is one thing I should have said earlier, and will now: If this guy killed this cop in cold blood for no reason other than avoiding a DUI, I want him in prison for the rest of his life. I will freely admit that I am prone to conspiracy theories, and I find it interesting that on this particular day that the fallen cop somehow forgot to put the videotape into his camera. That is something I can be attacked for, because I am nuts when it comes to stuff like that, even though it usually ends up being innocent.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:34 pm

jfiling wrote:
Cool, you didn't make it personal ;)


You're correct dude. That ain't right. I changed my post. It ain't just you and that was out of line. But the sentiment stands.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:38 pm

Peeker643 wrote:jfiling wrote:
Cool, you didn't make it personal ;)


You're correct dude. That ain't right. I changed my post. It ain't just you and that was out of line. But the sentiment stands.


Oh. Actually, I didn't find the "sir" thing to be personal at all. I posted that quoted line in complete sincerity. Intelligent people are allowed to disagree, and I've already admitted that my brain is partially scrambled and I do tend to believe rather wild ideas.
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Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:35 pm

My father is also a Police officer. When something like this happens, its got to be in the back of their minds on every traffic stop, warrant, transfer. How can it not be. I know when I was a fireman, I always had some fear before doing something. I know I couldnt do what he or any other officer does. Thank you to all that protect us.
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Unread postby jack_tors » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:47 pm

jfiling wrote:I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks, but this one really gets me, because there is an innocent man sitting in prison for life due to this exact scenario. Cory Maye was sleeping in his home with his daughter when the cops raided his home. It was the wrong home, by the way. Fearing for his daughter's life, he shielded her with his body, grabbed his gun, and fired. He killed a police officer, who was not in uniform and Maye had no way of knowing it was the police, since it was the sound of the raid that woke him. But hey, fuck him, he should get the needle. Did I mention that he was innocent of any crime besides shooting an intruder who happened to be a cop?

How about Ryan Frederick? Police, in a similar raid, busted into his house, which had been burgled only a week earlier, in the middle of the night and he fired one shot in self-defense, killing an officer. He's facing life in prison.

Kathryn Johnston? A woman in her 90s who fired an antique gun exactly once at police serving a "no-knock" warrant on her apartment. You'll be happy to know that while she didn't hit any cops, she was killed in a hail of gunfire, and then the cops planted weed in her apartment to make the bust look justified. Interestingly, a few cops were injured in that raid, but it was from "friendly fire".

I really hope that this post doesn't come across as nothing but cop-hating, because like soldier I do admire the ones who do their job without having that gung-ho killer mentality. I also would think everyone would like to know all the facts of this tragedy before demanding the death penalty. I also hope I'm not crossing any lines of being banned or anything.


All valid points, no doubt. My guess would be everyone on this board agrees there are a few cops out on the street that are bad or down right shady. Also, sure incidents like the ones you pointed out happen in this messed up world. Although, I think we can can agree that the good vastly outweighs the bad.

My point is this, my guess is when this case is resolved, we will find this suspect was drunk and irrationally reacted to being pulled over. This cop calls for backup from Reminderville and is shot within 30 seconds. There is no rationale, no conspiracy here, no track record of bad conduct by this officer or department that would lead any rational person to deduce that this kid is just a cold blooded killer. This suspect had brushes with the law before and in the matter of minutes a cop is dead without even pulling a weapon. I have absolutely no problem saying this punk deserves the chair. I had no issues with saying it last night, no issues today, and will bet the statement will hold true once the case is closed.

However, this is America and one of the great things is we have the ability to discuss these issues as free men and women. I don't agree with your take on the issue but you have the right to your opinion.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:08 pm

jack_tors wrote:All valid points, no doubt. My guess would be everyone on this board agrees there are a few cops out on the street that are bad or down right shady. Also, sure incidents like the ones you pointed out happen in this messed up world. Although, I think we can can agree that the good vastly outweighs the bad.

My point is this, my guess is when this case is resolved, we will find this suspect was drunk and irrationally reacted to being pulled over. This cop calls for backup from Reminderville and is shot within 30 seconds. There is no rationale, no conspiracy here, no track record of bad conduct by this officer or department that would lead any rational person to deduce that this kid is just a cold blooded killer. This suspect had brushes with the law before and in the matter of minutes a cop is dead without even pulling a weapon. I have absolutely no problem saying this punk deserves the chair. I had no issues with saying it last night, no issues today, and will bet the statement will hold true once the case is closed.

However, this is America and one of the great things is we have the ability to discuss these issues as free men and women. I don't agree with your take on the issue but you have the right to your opinion.


You may be surprised, but I agree with you. I really hope that this is a case of a guy losing his mind and deciding that shooting a cop seemed like a good idea. This dead policeman, who by all accounts has done his job honorably, didn't deserve to die. Even if he did something to allow for a self-defense claim to be considered, he did not deserve to die. I do not want to be called out on that issue. And I have no reason to believe that this was a bad cop. I have followed these types of cases, as you've seen, and there must be some reason for a defense lawyer, who is an officer of the court and is sworn to not only give the best defense he can to his client, but tell the truth, to state that it was self-defense.

Honestly, if the lawyer is lying I emotionally want him to get the same punishment as the shooter. I'm willing to let the facts play out.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:20 pm

jfiling wrote:
jack_tors wrote:All valid points, no doubt. My guess would be everyone on this board agrees there are a few cops out on the street that are bad or down right shady. Also, sure incidents like the ones you pointed out happen in this messed up world. Although, I think we can can agree that the good vastly outweighs the bad.

My point is this, my guess is when this case is resolved, we will find this suspect was drunk and irrationally reacted to being pulled over. This cop calls for backup from Reminderville and is shot within 30 seconds. There is no rationale, no conspiracy here, no track record of bad conduct by this officer or department that would lead any rational person to deduce that this kid is just a cold blooded killer. This suspect had brushes with the law before and in the matter of minutes a cop is dead without even pulling a weapon. I have absolutely no problem saying this punk deserves the chair. I had no issues with saying it last night, no issues today, and will bet the statement will hold true once the case is closed.

However, this is America and one of the great things is we have the ability to discuss these issues as free men and women. I don't agree with your take on the issue but you have the right to your opinion.


You may be surprised, but I agree with you. I really hope that this is a case of a guy losing his mind and deciding that shooting a cop seemed like a good idea. This dead policeman, who by all accounts has done his job honorably, didn't deserve to die. Even if he did something to allow for a self-defense claim to be considered, he did not deserve to die. I do not want to be called out on that issue. And I have no reason to believe that this was a bad cop. I have followed these types of cases, as you've seen, and there must be some reason for a defense lawyer, who is an officer of the court and is sworn to not only give the best defense he can to his client, but tell the truth, to state that it was self-defense.

Honestly, if the lawyer is lying I emotionally want him to get the same punishment as the shooter. I'm willing to let the facts play out.


I'll end my time in this thread by just saying I've met and dealt with far more dishonest and unscrupulous attorneys than police officers in my time.

Like I said before, with the dog remaining in the car and his gun remaining in the holster, I can see absolutely no 'self-defense' justification for shooting anyone, much less a police officer, 4 times in the head. Add in that this all went down in just two minutes and it's just outside the scope of my imagination. Doesn't mean I'm right, but that's a serious stretch for me.

The officer's body was next to the cruiser according to the dispatch call. Sure seems to me like a plausible scenario being the guy got out of the car as the officer finished on the tag run and ambushed the poor bastard/or got involved in some type of altercation that resulted in the officer being able to get one cuff on the prick. All speculation. But with a concealed carry and a loaded weapon in the car the common procedure is to roll down your window and rest your hands on the window ledge the entire time.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:29 pm

Peeker643 wrote:I'll end my time in this thread by just saying I've met and dealt with far more dishonest and unscrupulous attorneys than police officers in my time.

Like I said before, with the dog remaining in the car and his gun remaining in the holster, I can see absolutely no 'self-defense' justification for shooting anyone, much less a police officer, 4 times in the head. Add in that this all went down in just two minutes and it's just outside the scope of my imagination. Doesn't mean I'm right, but that's a serious stretch for me.

The officer's body was next to the cruiser according to the dispatch call. Sure seems to me like a plausible scenario being the guy got out of the car as the officer finished on the tag run and ambushed the poor bastard/or got involved in some type of altercation that resulted in the officer being able to get one cuff on the prick. All speculation. But with a concealed carry and a loaded weapon in the car the common procedure is to roll down your window and rest your hands on the window ledge the entire time.


That's a very plausible scenario, but I'm not sure it accounts for the handcuffs. Honestly, I'm more likely to believe the girlfriend sitting in the car shot the cop, and this guy is taking the fall hoping that the self-defense theory works. Actually, the more I think about it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if she did it.
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Unread postby Greener » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:34 am

Brian,
I must say as a person who worked with both your uncles at the tail end of their careers, I greatly appreciate your heart filled passionate responses. It always amazes me that people like this jfiling, who in my opinion, based on his opinions is a fucking piece of shit(yes I made it personal), can form opinions on circumstances described in the media, and those people have absolutely no experience or training in these matters. Do you people really believe all the details of in incident as being released?

How can anyone hypothesize as to what happened at that shoot, myself included, someone who has worked investigations involving police shootings, where the coppers were the victims and the shooters. The exact circumstances of the case are known only to those conducting the investigation, and in some cases, it takes external agency assistance to conduct the full investigation, which can also take quite a bit of time.

As far the gung-ho, police officers that Mr. jfiling thinks are such assholes, I would point out to him, that if his mother, father, daughter, wife, sister, or brother were being held hostage, or in some other type of peril, that may be the type of officer needed to take of the situation. I will not post some crap on here about all cops being good cops, and yes law enforcement has their own issues, however, when compared to the number of lawyers that are disbarred or doctors who loose their license to practice medicine, we are doing fairly well.

I don't know what jfliling does for a living, nor do I really care, but unless its a job, that includes kissing your wife and kids good-bye, and then them watching you leave and not knowing if you will come home at night, because some wack job just killed you for doing your job, then he can feel free to criticize the boys in blue for doing their job.

It is a free county, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, including jfiling, and I too am entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that jfiling is an asshole. Have a great day.

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Unread postby WarAdmiral » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:36 am

Around three years ago, I was driving to work on a Sunday afternoon. I looked up in the rear view mirror and seen the blue lights. I pulled over, trying to figure out why I was being pulled over. I put both hands on the wheel and waited for the officer to ask me to roll the window down and so forth. To my surprise, he is screaming at me, and telling me to put both hands out the window. I almost crapped my pants, and complied. He had his hand on his gun, and I will never forget that feeling. I followed every order like a it could be my last day on earth.
Long story shortened, some guy had busted his wife up and left the scene about the same time I am driving down ole 14. The suspect was the same race, and driving the same color and model of truck, I was driving. After he ran my drivers license, he relaxed and apologized for scaring the shit out of me. He than explained why he did what he did. I told him to go get that son of a bitch. I hope it wasn't the same officer that was downed.

This guy deserves due process. No less, no more.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:23 pm

jfiling wrote:
This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.


I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks, but this one really gets me


Do tell me with your infinite wisdom where there was a personal attack. I merely mentioned that your entire argument is bullshit and completely unfounded, being that the gun was holstered and the dog was in the backseat. I see absolutely no signs of aggressiveness from the cop. And if there were any signs of a struggle on this fuckstick, that would be out in the media already.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:56 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
jfiling wrote:
This fucking scumbag should rot. I don't give a shit if he has a criminal record or not. HE KILLED A POLICE OFFICER. He could be the nicest guy in the world, would do anything for anybody, but if you kill a cop, fuck you.


I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks, but this one really gets me


Do tell me with your infinite wisdom where there was a personal attack. I merely mentioned that your entire argument is bullshit and completely unfounded, being that the gun was holstered and the dog was in the backseat. I see absolutely no signs of aggressiveness from the cop. And if there were any signs of a struggle on this fuckstick, that would be out in the media already.


Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I'm not responding to personal attacks, and yours wasn't, but it struck me in a way I wanted to respond. You did not attack me in that post.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:09 pm

WarAdmiral wrote:Around three years ago, I was driving to work on a Sunday afternoon. I looked up in the rear view mirror and seen the blue lights. I pulled over, trying to figure out why I was being pulled over. I put both hands on the wheel and waited for the officer to ask me to roll the window down and so forth. To my surprise, he is screaming at me, and telling me to put both hands out the window. I almost crapped my pants, and complied. He had his hand on his gun, and I will never forget that feeling. I followed every order like a it could be my last day on earth.
Long story shortened, some guy had busted his wife up and left the scene about the same time I am driving down ole 14. The suspect was the same race, and driving the same color and model of truck, I was driving. After he ran my drivers license, he relaxed and apologized for scaring the shit out of me. He than explained why he did what he did. I told him to go get that son of a bitch. I hope it wasn't the same officer that was downed.

This guy deserves due process. No less, no more.


Wow. I give you a lot of credit for keeping your cool and understanding. I would have dealt with that way differently, and if I had the power the cop would no longer have his badge. Emotions should not play into how cops conduct reasonable stops. Your stop was reasonable, but the way this guy handled it was out of line. But, like I said, I'm glad that you were able to deal with it in the manner in which you did.
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Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:53 pm

jfiling wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:Around three years ago, I was driving to work on a Sunday afternoon. I looked up in the rear view mirror and seen the blue lights. I pulled over, trying to figure out why I was being pulled over. I put both hands on the wheel and waited for the officer to ask me to roll the window down and so forth. To my surprise, he is screaming at me, and telling me to put both hands out the window. I almost crapped my pants, and complied. He had his hand on his gun, and I will never forget that feeling. I followed every order like a it could be my last day on earth.
Long story shortened, some guy had busted his wife up and left the scene about the same time I am driving down ole 14. The suspect was the same race, and driving the same color and model of truck, I was driving. After he ran my drivers license, he relaxed and apologized for scaring the shit out of me. He than explained why he did what he did. I told him to go get that son of a bitch. I hope it wasn't the same officer that was downed.

This guy deserves due process. No less, no more.


Wow. I give you a lot of credit for keeping your cool and understanding. I would have dealt with that way differently, and if I had the power the cop would no longer have his badge. Emotions should not play into how cops conduct reasonable stops. Your stop was reasonable, but the way this guy handled it was out of line. But, like I said, I'm glad that you were able to deal with it in the manner in which you did.


See that is where you are 1000% wrong. The cop handle it in the exact way he should have been. He cant be wrong one time. That guy he was after already committed a violent crime. He didnt pull over a 90 year old lady in a wrong colored Buick. He had every reason to believe that the driver was this guy. If he goes up there non chalantly and the guy pulls a gun his life is over, much like the guy from Twinsburg. If the guy from Twinsburg had his gun pulled the entire time and made him and his girlfriend keep their hands where he could have seen them and been more aggressive he might be alive today. But it is people like you who try to erode the power of police officers because you want them to be right everytime instead of erroring on the side of caution. My dad who is a police officer of 28 years once something that made me feel a bit more confident in him being on the streets. Think about this. "It is better to be on trial in front 12 then carried by 6".
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:18 pm

Ziner wrote:
jfiling wrote:
WarAdmiral wrote:Around three years ago, I was driving to work on a Sunday afternoon. I looked up in the rear view mirror and seen the blue lights. I pulled over, trying to figure out why I was being pulled over. I put both hands on the wheel and waited for the officer to ask me to roll the window down and so forth. To my surprise, he is screaming at me, and telling me to put both hands out the window. I almost crapped my pants, and complied. He had his hand on his gun, and I will never forget that feeling. I followed every order like a it could be my last day on earth.
Long story shortened, some guy had busted his wife up and left the scene about the same time I am driving down ole 14. The suspect was the same race, and driving the same color and model of truck, I was driving. After he ran my drivers license, he relaxed and apologized for scaring the shit out of me. He than explained why he did what he did. I told him to go get that son of a bitch. I hope it wasn't the same officer that was downed.

This guy deserves due process. No less, no more.


Wow. I give you a lot of credit for keeping your cool and understanding. I would have dealt with that way differently, and if I had the power the cop would no longer have his badge. Emotions should not play into how cops conduct reasonable stops. Your stop was reasonable, but the way this guy handled it was out of line. But, like I said, I'm glad that you were able to deal with it in the manner in which you did.


See that is where you are 1000% wrong. The cop handle it in the exact way he should have been. He cant be wrong one time. That guy he was after already committed a violent crime. He didnt pull over a 90 year old lady in a wrong colored Buick. He had every reason to believe that the driver was this guy. If he goes up there non chalantly and the guy pulls a gun his life is over, much like the guy from Twinsburg. If the guy from Twinsburg had his gun pulled the entire time and made him and his girlfriend keep their hands where he could have seen them and been more aggressive he might be alive today. But it is people like you who try to erode the power of police officers because you want them to be right everytime instead of erroring on the side of caution. My dad who is a police officer of 28 years once something that made me feel a bit more confident in him being on the streets. Think about this. "It is better to be on trial in front 12 then carried by 6".

I understand. There is a philosophical disagreement here that is hard to overcome. I believe the police, since they are acting under the cover of government authority, must be in the right. Expecting anything less leads to abuse of power.

Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater, and thought he might be a danger. You pull the guy over, and call and wait for backup, if you are concerned that he could be a threat to your life. Police cars have a P.A. system, and the cop could easily tell the suspect to wait in his car until backup arrived. By the way, in the meantime the cop could actually do the work of running the license plate and easily figuring out that this wasn't the suspect at all.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:30 pm

jfiling wrote:I understand. There is a philosophical disagreement here that is hard to overcome. I believe the police, since they are acting under the cover of government authority, must be in the right. Expecting anything less leads to abuse of power.

Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater, and thought he might be a danger. You pull the guy over, and call and wait for backup, if you are concerned that he could be a threat to your life. Police cars have a P.A. system, and the cop could easily tell the suspect to wait in his car until backup arrived. By the way, in the meantime the cop could actually do the work of running the license plate and easily figuring out that this wasn't the suspect at all.


Tough to do consistently when most departments are stretched paper thin as it is. If it were that easy they'd all have a partner.

Yes, it would help matters like the T'Burg killing, but I'm not sure it's logistically feasible.
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Unread postby Ziner » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:44 pm

jfiling wrote:
Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater


The officer had reasonable suspicion to think he is the alleged wife beater. Under your scenario he sits there waits around for back up while the real wife beater gets farther away. For someone who is a wife beater this might not be the end of the world as he is not likely to be a threat to the rest of the public. But say he is searching for a killer who just recently killed people. You are telling me you want him to wait around and call for back up instead of using intellingent measures to ensure his safety while looking for his suspect in a reasonable amount of time. Usually when I disagree with people I can see there side. I dont see yours in this instance. It seems like you have some previous prejuduce towards police officers or something. They do not have the luxury to ever be wrong in the wrong situation. I want my father doing exactly what the cop who pulled over the fellow poster. I dont want him half assing it because he just might offend someone who is innocent. He didnt pull him out of the car and pistol whip him. He told him to put his hands where he could see him and kept his hand on his gun. That is reasonable. Cops are in tough situations. They get and deserve the benefit of the doubt 99.9% of the time.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:44 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
jfiling wrote:I understand. There is a philosophical disagreement here that is hard to overcome. I believe the police, since they are acting under the cover of government authority, must be in the right. Expecting anything less leads to abuse of power.

Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater, and thought he might be a danger. You pull the guy over, and call and wait for backup, if you are concerned that he could be a threat to your life. Police cars have a P.A. system, and the cop could easily tell the suspect to wait in his car until backup arrived. By the way, in the meantime the cop could actually do the work of running the license plate and easily figuring out that this wasn't the suspect at all.


Tough to do consistently when most departments are stretched paper thin as it is. If it were that easy they'd all have a partner.

Yes, it would help matters like the T'Burg killing, but I'm not sure it's logistically feasible.


True enough. In the Twinsburg case, the cop did request backup, but then for some reason decided to proceed on his own. Whatever happened between requesting backup and him getting shot, he didn't deserve to die. I just honestly wish his camera had been operating so this whole mess could be easily put to rest.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:48 pm

Ziner wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater


The officer had reasonable suspicion to think he is the alleged wife beater. Under your scenario he sits there waits around for back up while the real wife beater gets farther away.


Huh? Under my scenario the cop pulls the guy over, runs his plates, and lets him on his way. He doesn't terrorize an innocent person. I really don't understand how that can be so complicated.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:34 am

jfiling wrote:
Ziner wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater


The officer had reasonable suspicion to think he is the alleged wife beater. Under your scenario he sits there waits around for back up while the real wife beater gets farther away.


Huh? Under my scenario the cop pulls the guy over, runs his plates, and lets him on his way. He doesn't terrorize an innocent person. I really don't understand how that can be so complicated.


Jfiling, Hindsite is always 20/20. But another way to look at is by eliminating this subject may have helped them react quicker to the other guy. Under your scenerio the wife beata would have more time to get away while the cop sat and waited for back up on the wrong suspect. I'm sure it's not an easy decision to make but neither you nor I can even to pretend to know whats it like.
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Unread postby jfiling » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 am

Dozen wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Ziner wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater


The officer had reasonable suspicion to think he is the alleged wife beater. Under your scenario he sits there waits around for back up while the real wife beater gets farther away.


Huh? Under my scenario the cop pulls the guy over, runs his plates, and lets him on his way. He doesn't terrorize an innocent person. I really don't understand how that can be so complicated.


Jfiling, Hindsite is always 20/20. But another way to look at is by eliminating this subject may have helped them react quicker to the other guy. Under your scenerio the wife beata would have more time to get away while the cop sat and waited for back up on the wrong suspect. I'm sure it's not an easy decision to make but neither you nor I can even to pretend to know whats it like.


True enough. I guess the bottom line is drawn when one asks oneself which country one would prefer to live: A country where the presumption is you are guilty, or a country where a cop takes a few extra minutes and runs a license plate. I'm really not sure how the cop going John Wayne was more effective that simply calling in the plate to the dispatcher.
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Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:30 am

jfiling wrote:
Dozen wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Ziner wrote:
jfiling wrote:
Let's take this specific case. The officer believed he MIGHT have the alleged wifebeater


The officer had reasonable suspicion to think he is the alleged wife beater. Under your scenario he sits there waits around for back up while the real wife beater gets farther away.


Huh? Under my scenario the cop pulls the guy over, runs his plates, and lets him on his way. He doesn't terrorize an innocent person. I really don't understand how that can be so complicated.


Jfiling, Hindsite is always 20/20. But another way to look at is by eliminating this subject may have helped them react quicker to the other guy. Under your scenerio the wife beata would have more time to get away while the cop sat and waited for back up on the wrong suspect. I'm sure it's not an easy decision to make but neither you nor I can even to pretend to know whats it like.


True enough. I guess the bottom line is drawn when one asks oneself which country one would prefer to live: A country where the presumption is you are guilty, or a country where a cop takes a few extra minutes and runs a license plate. I'm really not sure how the cop going John Wayne was more effective that simply calling in the plate to the dispatcher.[/quote

I choose the country where the citizens use common sense and understand the duties of a police officer. If he pulls you over thinking you are someone you are not, and you comply fully you will be on your way quickly. He yelled at the guy, he didnt beat his ass to the ground step on his neck, cuff him and then run his plates. He did what he thought was right at the time. That is the difference between you and I. I dont pretend like I know how a officers job is best handle. You on the other hand think you should be the police chief of cleveland and would like to turn it in to pansyland where every cop would have to get a warrant just to pull someone over for speeding. Give. them. the. benefit. of. the. doubt. You have never been a cop, you have never had a gun pulled on you, you dont deal with scumbags everyday in which anyone of them could take your life if you make a wrong move or let your guard down. Get off your high horse and come visit a place called reality, it really isnt as bad as you make it out to be
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